Inspirational Who Are You. Really?

[Harkiran Kaur]

'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUtH0DDJorM#t=551

This is my last post here... and I wanted to leave on a positive note. The message in this video is profound, and is what I have been trying to articulate.

I wish you all the best in your journey.....

Edit: This was not meant to debate, hence the inspirational section. That was a bit uncalled for Harry Ji. It's fine if you don't agree, if you have your own inspirational post based on more secular views of Sikhi, then you could have posted your own. And I am not leaving because I can't debate my views anymore. I jsut don't see how debating it is constructive at all anymore, and I was a little taken aback and shaken up by the direct personal attacks, when I never once attacked anyone. Saying I believe someone is athiestic in their interpretation is not an attack... it's trying to find a word that accurately describes that interpretation and was never meant to be deragatory, however the direct attacks I received were... I believe I was actually called 'hateful' by Tejwant Ji, a word I would never use for anyone. I have no wish to further debate if it means being attacked in that way. I'm not gone I just moved to a different forum where people are a little more open to discussion on both sides of the 'debate' without personal attacks. Your desire to immeditely jump on my last thread which was supposed to be an inspirational video and shoot it down, just illustrates my point. If you don't agree with the message (which I happen to think agrees with Sikhi) then you don't have to watch it.... or... simply post your own inspirational video which depicts a more secular view. Really I wish all of you well, even Tejwant Ji. I can be reached at Sikhawareness foum if anyone really wants.

 

[Harry Haller]

I found it hard to watch this, maybe I do not like being proselytised to, constantly.

This is from the Papaji school, Mariana Caplan in her book eyes wide open is quoted as saying that

One of the tragedies of Poonjaji's teaching ministry is that he either told, inferred, or allowed hundreds of individuals to believe they were fully enlightened simply because they'd had one, or many, powerful experiences of awakening. These "enlightened" teachers then proceeded to enlighten their own students in a similar way, and thus was born what is known as the "neo-Advaita", or "satsang" movement in western culture

It is a shame you are unable to bring the knowledge you have and the wisdom you own as a means of sharing and furthering debate.

I know full well what you are trying to articulate, and I do not agree with it, nor do I wish to embrace it.



Just remember, things that are shut away in boxes are normally shut away for a reason,

I hope you find what ever it is you are looking for, Good Luck

 

[SaintSoldier1699]

Akasha Ji,

Thank you for the post, I enjoyed the video, and the music was soothing too (regardless of who the organisation are).

I kept up with the other thread where you tried to express your experiences etc and wanted to post but failed to.

On a personal note I agree with the basis on the video about questioning who we really are, as so much of it is preconceived due to our up bringing, society, expectations, we mould into the mind of these past experiences who we identify as "I". There needs to be some kind of reverse engineering/self reflection to understand what triggers you to be "happy" or "sad", to filter out those based on false endeavors, as these will never fulfill you.

A shabad that really hit this home for me was that of Bhagat Kabeer Ji, saying search your heart daily to get free of the confusion, that this life is a big festival, see everything as one;

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਇਫਤਰਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਿਲ ਕਾ ਫਿਕਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Beḏ kaṯeb ifṯarā bẖā▫ī ḏil kā fikar na jā▫e. The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart.

ਟੁਕੁ ਦਮੁ ਕਰਾਰੀ ਜਉ ਕਰਹੁ ਹਾਜਿਰ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥੧॥ Tuk ḏam karārī ja▫o karahu hājir hajūr kẖuḏā▫e. ||1|| If you will only center yourself on the Lord, even for just a breath, then you shall see the Lord face-to-face, present before you. ||1||

ਬੰਦੇ ਖੋਜੁ ਦਿਲ ਹਰ ਰੋਜ ਨਾ ਫਿਰੁ ਪਰੇਸਾਨੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ Banḏe kẖoj ḏil har roj nā fir paresānī māhi. O human being, search your own heart every day, and do not wander around in confusion.

ਇਹ ਜੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸਿਹਰੁ ਮੇਲਾ ਦਸਤਗੀਰੀ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Ih jo ḏunī▫ā sihar melā ḏasaṯgīrī nāhi. ||1|| rahā▫o. This world is just a magic-show; no one will be holding your hand. ||1||Pause|
|
ਦਰੋਗੁ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਖੁਸੀ ਹੋਇ ਬੇਖਬਰ ਬਾਦੁ ਬਕਾਹਿ ॥ Ḏarog paṛ paṛ kẖusī ho▫e bekẖabar bāḏ bakāhi. Reading and studying falsehood, people are happy; in their ignorance, they speak nonsense.

ਹਕੁ ਸਚੁ ਖਾਲਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਮਿਆਨੇ ਸਿਆਮ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥ Hak sacẖ kẖālak kẖalak mi▫āne si▫ām mūraṯ nāhi. ||2|| The True Creator Lord is diffused into His creation; He is not just the dark-skinned Krishna of legends. ||2||

ਅਸਮਾਨ *ਿਮ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੇ ਲਹੰਗ ਦਰੀਆ ਗੁਸਲ ਕਰਦਨ ਬੂਦ ॥ Asmān mi▫yāne lahang ḏarī▫ā gusal karḏan būḏ. Through the Tenth Gate, the stream of nectar flows; take your bath in this.

ਕਰਿ ਫਕਰੁ ਦਾਇਮ ਲਾਇ ਚਸਮੇ ਜਹ ਤਹਾ ਮਉਜੂਦੁ ॥੩॥ Kar fakar ḏā▫im lā▫e cẖasme jah ṯahā ma▫ujūḏ. ||3|| Serve the Lord forever; use your eyes, and see Him ever-present everywhere. ||3||

ਅਲਾਹ ਪਾਕੰ ਪਾਕ ਹੈ ਸਕ ਕਰਉ ਜੇ ਦੂਸਰ ਹੋਇ ॥ Alāh pākaʼn pāk hai sak kara▫o je ḏūsar ho▫e. The Lord is the purest of the pure; only through doubt could there be another.

ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰਮੁ ਕਰੀਮ ਕਾ ਉਹੁ ਕਰੈ ਜਾਨੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧॥ Kabīr karam karīm kā uho karai jānai so▫e. ||4||1|| O Kabeer, mercy flows from the Merciful Lord; He alone knows who acts. ||4||1||

Going through the process of self reflection eventually clears the mind some what, as you understand the many different forms of maya, ego that effect you, has been programmed in your mind, to me that clarity is the bliss, to have the ying and yang in balance, means freedom from the games your mind plays. The clarity brings awareness of how amazing life is, to me appreciating life in the present moment is bliss (not a high but in a sense of clarity), not a few minutes of feeling high, or only when meditating, or in a group of people who think the same.

I have felt "highs" when I began my journey in Sikhi, at keertan smagams, chanting waheguru loudly or whilst meditating with eyes closed etc but they just didn't last, only for that moment to then disappear. I know there is a shabad that I read that says any pleasure which lasts an instance is false, the Anand that is timeless is the true experience - I will try to find it.

We cant explain the feeling we get when we do something positive, or negative, its much deeper than words and very hard to explain.

We can be harsh to each other when debating, but everyone is on their own journey, effected by their own unique experiences/environment. Who we were yesterday is not the same as today and no doubt tomorrow will be different to who we are today but we must always take into account that Gurbani is the weed killer, our Guru's took out all the doubts about renunciation, mantras, offerings, idol worship, caste ism, racism, superstitions, temporary highs etc and gave us the formula to be sachiara - truthful whilst living in the world and dealing with all our responsibilities.

The above is my experience, in no way am I an expert nor want to be, it's just my own personal journey so far.

Akasha ji, if this is your last post, I wish you well on your journey and thank you for your participation in SPN you will be missed. eacesign:

Thank you,

Avtar Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

Edit: This was not meant to debate, hence the inspirational section. That was a bit uncalled for Harry Ji. It's fine if you don't agree, if you have your own inspirational post based on more secular views of Sikhi, then you could have posted your own. And I am not leaving because I can't debate my views anymore. I jsut don't see how debating it is constructive at all anymore, and I was a little taken aback and shaken up by the direct personal attacks, when I never once attacked anyone. Saying I believe someone is athiestic in their interpretation is not an attack... it's trying to find a word that accurately describes that interpretation and was never meant to be deragatory, however the direct attacks I received were... I believe I was actually called 'hateful' by Tejwant Ji, a word I would never use for anyone. I have no wish to further debate if it means being attacked in that way. I'm not gone I just moved to a different forum where people are a little more open to discussion on both sides of the 'debate' without personal attacks. Your desire to immeditely jump on my last thread which was supposed to be an inspirational video and shoot it down, just illustrates my point. If you don't agree with the message (which I happen to think agrees with Sikhi) then you don't have to watch it.... or... simply post your own inspirational video which depicts a more secular view. Really I wish all of you well, even Tejwant Ji. I can be reached at Sikhawareness foum if anyone really wants.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

and lo!

I am so glad to read this... I just got into a spiritually draining topic on another Sikh forum where most of the members are very athiestic in their interpretation of Gurbani. Any reference to 'reincarnation' to them means simply states of mind and vast majority of them even deny the existence of a creator... instead redferring only to 'creation' with no conscious creator. I tried and tried to explain to them these same things about reality being dream of Waheguru Ji, everything being ONE and that our true nature is nonphysical / spiritual (and even backed up with quantum physics), but most of them believe that this physical life is 'it' and nothing exists beyond. I don't know how they can call themselves Sikhs... their interpretation turns Sri guru Granth Sahib Ji into merely a psychology book on how to get along with the neighbours. They actually became so defensive and accusing that they drove me away from that forum completely.

its a bit uncalled for to question why I call myself a Sikh....

anyway good luck with your new friends, I hope you find the company you are looking for eacesign:

 

[japjisahib04]

'


I am so glad to read this... I just got into a spiritually draining topic on another Sikh forum where most of the members are very athiestic in their interpretation of Gurbani. Any reference to 'reincarnation' to them means simply states of mind and vast majority of them even deny the existence of a creator... instead redferring only to 'creation' with no conscious creator. I tried and tried to explain to them these same things about reality being dream of Waheguru Ji, everything being ONE and that our true nature is nonphysical / spiritual (and even backed up with quantum physics), but most of them believe that this physical life is 'it' and nothing exists beyond. I don't know how they can call themselves Sikhs... their interpretation turns Sri guru Granth Sahib Ji into merely a psychology book on how to get along with the neighbours. They actually became so defensive and accusing that they drove me away from that forum completely.

Akasha Jee

Last time I requested you to kindly give me one pankti which proves your point of reincarnation but you never came back. For the sake of argument, let me admit for a second that there really is reincarnation, how does it matter and help us elevating our mind.

 

[Parma]

You have to understand spirituality to a degree before you start to understand this point; I am a Soul=Energy, alone. Not in a good or bad way. The soul is its own product. The Loneliness of it all I realise is distance and time for us all, every energy process is for the sustainability of itselfs. The souls own fundamental development. We can find ourselves the realisation of it the pure foundation on what it stands. That realisation of a greater connection to a Principal; Energy=Nature=Time=Distance=God=(Creation; therefore the creator is the accumulation of all things) but still the soul fundamentally will see pain and hurt but I wish for everyone to be only happy from that nothingness of loneliness that soul is felt in. Alone I am born, alone I live, alone I die, alone by itself the soul is felt, always wishing for true love. Not the games of this or that, the unconditional love in others of that awareness of one another I am yet to find, I find it in the creation the great design itself on how it all works, but to find someone that enjoys it, understands it and is content with it. Even I am at points not content to it all due to other forces, like injustice. Distance and Time they are an equation of the loneliness that is felt in the soul to comfort the abyss we create, to pass the time we create to bring others closer to what we have created,(but who is giving you the thoughts?). I have come to realise that no one has ever wronged me and no one has ever done better for me otherwise something would show that effect it had on me. Understanding the quality of each emotion you realise which ones matter like hurt, sadness, loneliness and which ones don't like vengeance, jealousy or hate. When I think of the creator I see these things must effect and must be the same for it as I am apart of this creation. Like an energy within an energy. They are equilibriums of the energy of the soul that I am thankful to have acquired. So would you be if you realised what you lose each time we take advantage of each other, we spiritually become disadvantaged. The existence is real, the soul energy is touched when not in a nice way that creates that energy. Same with good intentions that creates that energy. Consumption is a process that I sometimes wonder about if we learned to eat the soil whole instead of it having to go through a process like turn into a carrot or fruit or whatever, would we eat the earth whole and eat planets and worlds. Natures technology built a process our technology corrupts the process to make things easier, will we get so fast in our hunger that we would not have the time to wait for the natural processes of developments and instead start to eat the world as whole and truly become destroyers of worlds. No time to wait for a potato to grow, as we multiply, supply and demand. Similarly when you look at the stars and sky's you begin to wonder are we not all turning into empty pits of greed that lead to nothing really after its all said and done all that matters is how we treated each other while here, after the black whole has consumed it all, it disperses all the matter it turns into a type of nothingness again. Or should I say material the fabric of creation, life. Like the human eats products of soil to then go through a digestive process to turn it back to soil. Future and Past can we see it all here, Conclusion = I am PEACEFUL!

 

[chazSingh]

Akasha Jee

Last time I requested you to kindly give me one pankti which proves your point of reincarnation but you never came back. For the sake of argument, let me admit for a second that there really is reincarnation, how does it matter and help us elevating our mind.

Because if it does exist....then it's part of the whole 'truth' therefore it's better knowing the whole truth than just part of the truth...

Also, Gurbani doesn't attempt to explain every last thing in extensive detail...because it wants you to make the attempt to find out, not through just mere study but through ACTUAL experience...if you do, all the truth will be revealed and you then have your 'complete' answer...rather than asking another member for 'proof' all the time.

The greatest learning on this path for me has been through my Simran, where i have experienced un-deniable things that require no debate at all...they take all doubts away...that is good enough for me..

God Bless everyone...truth always will prevail

 

[harmanpreet singh]

Akasha Jee

Last time I requested you to kindly give me one pankti which proves your point of reincarnation but you never came back. For the sake of argument, let me admit for a second that there really is reincarnation, how does it matter and help us elevating our mind.

Sat sri akaal Japji sahib ji ,

i will give you as many panktis as you wish and will show how it matters in elevating our mind but first kindly answer a question .


is there any(even single one ) translation or teeka of Guru Granth sahib ji that you agree with , in any languge English or Gurmukhi ?

 

[japjisahib04]

Sat sri akaal Japji sahib ji ,

i will give you as many panktis as you wish and will show how it matters in elevating our mind but first kindly answer a question .


is there any(even single one ) translation or teeka of Guru Granth sahib ji that you agree with , in any languge English or Gurmukhi ?

I will make you a Judge to decide after my explanation. Kindly quote that pantki where you are 100% sure.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUtH0DDJorM#t=551

This is my last post here... and I wanted to leave on a positive note. The message in this video is profound, and is what I have been trying to articulate.

I wish you all the best in your journey.....

Edit: This was not meant to debate, hence the inspirational section. That was a bit uncalled for Harry Ji. It's fine if you don't agree, if you have your own inspirational post based on more secular views of Sikhi, then you could have posted your own. And I am not leaving because I can't debate my views anymore. I jsut don't see how debating it is constructive at all anymore, and I was a little taken aback and shaken up by the direct personal attacks, when I never once attacked anyone. Saying I believe someone is athiestic in their interpretation is not an attack... it's trying to find a word that accurately describes that interpretation and was never meant to be deragatory, however the direct attacks I received were... I believe I was actually called 'hateful' by Tejwant Ji, a word I would never use for anyone. I have no wish to further debate if it means being attacked in that way. I'm not gone I just moved to a different forum where people are a little more open to discussion on both sides of the 'debate' without personal attacks. Your desire to immeditely jump on my last thread which was supposed to be an inspirational video and shoot it down, just illustrates my point. If you don't agree with the message (which I happen to think agrees with Sikhi) then you don't have to watch it.... or... simply post your own inspirational video which depicts a more secular view. Really I wish all of you well, even Tejwant Ji. I can be reached at Sikhawareness foum if anyone really wants.

Guru Fateh to all,

I seek your help in this one because I am a bit confused. I checked all the following thread but could not find any post of mine where I said as Akasha ji has accused me of it:

I believe I was actually called 'hateful' by Tejwant Ji, a word I would never use for anyone.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/42486-debate-spiritual-vs-non-spiritual-interpretation.html

Am I missing some of my own posts here?

Lastly, let's wish Akasha ji all the best. She is a lot better Sikh than all of us because she has found her path which we are still trying to. Her comments about us on the other forum do not surprise me because of the following reasons:

None of us is perfect. Deep down, the imperfections are the innate parts in all of us.

Sometimes we turn into the culs-de-sacs of our own lives. But the inner desire in us makes us turn back to look for wider horizons, so we can keep on stumbling, dusting ourselves off and carry on after learning from our mistakes. But in order to do that we can not afford to live in the self created cocoons of denial.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Guru Fateh to all,

I seek your help in this one because I am a bit confused. I checked all the following thread but could not find any post of mine where I said as Akasha ji has accused of it:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/42486-debate-spiritual-vs-non-spiritual-interpretation.html

Am I missing some of my own posts here?

Try this one:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/199284-post220.html

And... I am no better than anyone else... but yes I have found my path and like Chaz Singh Ji I have had experiences that leave no doubt to me. I was deeply hurt by your message Tejwant Ji. When I said your interpretation of Sikhi is atheistic, it was never meant to be derogatory... I don't know how much more politically correct I could have been with it. It was just an observation that by the definition of Athiesm, your interpretation falls in line with Athiesm. So yes, I said you and others have interpreted Gurbani in an Athiestic way. There was no accusing... the term 'atheist' is not an accusation. I could have used the term 'secular' if you preferred and find that term less derogatory?

But I never called anyone hateful, as you clearly intimated in your comment on that post, in fact that entire post was meant as a direct attack on me. There are two definite different interpretations of Sikhi here... and when I used the box analogy, it was not meant to accuse anyone or to be anything bad. I was just metaphorically (since you guys all like metaphors) trying to explain how there are two groups who interpret gurbani completely differently, and even though I tried to say that both meaning could be gotten from it, you guys all jumped in with responses to the effect of 'Gurbani was written for THIS LIFE ONLY' I believe it was actually in caps too... so basically we can never meet in the middle in how we interpret it. Hence, the box... I was willing to look at the possibility of both meanings being there (I was looking outside my box) while you guys refused to look at that possibility instead believing only the purely secular / atheistic interpretation and completely disregarding at all any possible spiritual meaning. I was trying to show that both groups can never possibly agree... and so I was done trying to 'sell' anything. It was never meant as an attack. But your response clearly was... and it hurt deeply. That's when I realized that I have to leave here. (The only reason I am still here is because I keep getting emails about new posts... and I can't figure out how to delete my account)

Also, I never spoke anything bad about any specific person or even mentioned the forum on Sikhawareness... I was upset and crying after your post. And on there, yes, I said I don't know how Sikhs can claim to be Sikhs when they personally attack someone. I always thought all Sikhs were supposed to explore the truth on their own, and to be attacked for it and for simply stating that I don't think we can ever agree... if you want to see the whole context of my post on sikhawareness it's here (since I also know you support reading quotes in their entire context):

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/...wers-by-sant-baba-darshan-singh-dhakki-sahib/

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Try this one:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/199284-post220.html

And... I am no better than anyone else... but yes I have found my path and like Chaz Singh Ji I have had experiences that leave no doubt to me. I was deeply hurt by your message Tejwant Ji. When I said your interpretation of Sikhi is atheistic, it was never meant to be derogatory... I don't know how much more politically correct I could have been with it. It was just an observation that by the definition of Athiesm, your interpretation falls in line with Athiesm. So yes, I said you and others have interpreted Gurbani in an Athiestic way. There was no accusing... the term 'atheist' is not an accusation. I could have used the term 'secular' if you preferred and find that term less derogatory?

But I never called anyone hateful, as you clearly intimated in your comment on that post, in fact that entire post was meant as a direct attack on me. There are two definite different interpretations of Sikhi here... and when I used the box analogy, it was not meant to accuse anyone or to be anything bad. I was just metaphorically (since you guys all like metaphors) trying to explain how there are two groups who interpret gurbani completely differently, and even though I tried to say that both meaning could be gotten from it, you guys all jumped in with responses to the effect of 'Gurbani was written for THIS LIFE ONLY' I believe it was actually in caps too... so basically we can never meet in the middle in how we interpret it. Hence, the box... I was willing to look at the possibility of both meanings being there (I was looking outside my box) while you guys refused to look at that possibility instead believing only the purely secular / atheistic interpretation and completely disregarding at all any possible spiritual meaning. I was trying to show that both groups can never possibly agree... and so I was done trying to 'sell' anything. It was never meant as an attack. But your response clearly was... and it hurt deeply. That's when I realized that I have to leave here. (The only reason I am still here is because I keep getting emails about new posts... and I can't figure out how to delete my account)

Also, I never spoke anything bad about any specific person or even mentioned the forum on Sikhawareness... I was upset and crying after your post. And on there, yes, I said I don't know how Sikhs can claim to be Sikhs when they personally attack someone. I always thought all Sikhs were supposed to explore the truth on their own, and to be attacked for it and for simply stating that I don't think we can ever agree... if you want to see the whole context of my post on sikhawareness it's here (since I also know you support reading quotes in their entire context):

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/...wers-by-sant-baba-darshan-singh-dhakki-sahib/

Akasha ji,

Guru Fateh.

I never called you hateful in that post as you have accused me of many things, but it is fine with me. Here is what I wrote which I am pasting from the post you put above.

Regarding your question about being in love, please read my very first post in this thread when you started it. It is a personal thing.Everyone has a different meaning/feeling of/for love and the same goes for the path of Sikhi. You are the one who is putting yourself in the "Love Box" in which you have admitted you are in, yet you accuse others of being in some kind of other box.

A Hatred Box?

Which is it Akasha ji?

Please show me where I have accused you of being hateful. Be honest.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Akasha ji,

Guru Fateh.

I never called you hateful in that post as you have accused me of many things, but it is fine with me. Here is what I wrote which I am pasting from the post you put above.



Please show me where I have accused you of being hateful. Be honest.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

You are using semantics in your wording... you said I put everyone else in a hatred box... thats the same thing as calling me hateful. No matter how you worded it, your intent was to hurt me with your words... and it worked.

I tried to explain to you that I never accused you of anything - saying an interpretation agrees with atheism is not any sort of accusation and was never meant to be deragatory - you yourself stated many times that your interpretation is purely secular / atheist even if you didn't use those exact words... I never meant it as an accusation. I tried to explain this....

And yet again, instead of trying to work things out you get completely defensive, don't acknowledge your part at all, and instead jump at me completely again.

THIS is what I am talking about...

and I still have nothing against you personally... I just don't know why you feel so compelled to make me feel bad.

Oh and the love thing was not related to boxes at all.. it was a response to Sherdil's post where he asked to explain how you know something was real, how do you explain what the experience was like... I used love as a comparison, because people who are in love can't easily put it into words. It had nothing to do with boxes as you stated.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

You are using semantics in your wording... you said I put everyone else in a hatred box... thats the same thing as calling me hateful. No matter how you worded it, your intent was to hurt me with your words... and it worked.

I tried to explain to you that I never accused you of anything - saying an interpretation agrees with atheism is not any sort of accusation and was never meant to be deragatory - you yourself stated many times that your interpretation is purely secular / atheist even if you didn't use those exact words... I never meant it as an accusation. I tried to explain this....

And yet again, instead of trying to work things out you get completely defensive, don't acknowledge your part at all, and instead jump at me completely again.

THIS is what I am talking about...

and I still have nothing against you personally... I just don't know why you feel so compelled to make me feel bad.

Oh and the love thing was not related to boxes at all.. it was a response to Sherdil's post where he asked to explain how you know something was real, how do you explain what the experience was like... I used love as a comparison, because people who are in love can't easily put it into words. It had nothing to do with boxes as you stated.

It is interesting to notice that now you have become a mind reader. You know what my intentions are.Well, you have been like that for quite sometime when you started the other thread where you read everyone's mind with your own abacus which counted you as a Spiritual and the rest, just the bean counters in the Physical realm.

One of us is having comprehension problems for sure. It is a valid QUESTION which is to be answered, NOT an accusation towards anyone. The words themselves are worth thousands of imaginative thoughts.

Enough said. Good luck in your journey.

 

[Parma]

Because if it does exist....then it's part of the whole 'truth' therefore it's better knowing the whole truth than just part of the truth...

Also, Gurbani doesn't attempt to explain every last thing in extensive detail...because it wants you to make the attempt to find out, not through just mere study but through ACTUAL experience...if you do, all the truth will be revealed and you then have your 'complete' answer...rather than asking another member for 'proof' all the time.

I am with Akasha Ji, This will 'probably' be one of my last posts on this forum. Forums can be beneficial but can also be destructive..

I have also found various members to be quite bullish on this Forum...Harry Ji you are not included in this...i very much liked our debates)...but other members are better left to their own devices

The greatest learning on this path for me has been through my Simran, where i have experienced un-deniable things that require no debate at all...they take all doubts away...that is good enough for me..

God Bless everyone...truth always will prevail

If only you knew sir how offensive bhagat kabir ji was in his time. You would laugh at the rancour of it all. Life is a learning process for us all for some its politeness lol. Take care on your journey. We are all not so lucky to learn in nice ways for some the journey's been hard. God bless!

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

It is interesting to notice that now you have become a mind reader. You know what my intentions are.Well, you have been like that for quite sometime when you started the other thread where you read everyone's mind with your own abacus which counted you as a Spiritual and the rest, just the bean counters in the Physical realm.

One of us is having comprehension problems for sure. It is a valid QUESTION which is to be answered, NOT an accusation towards anyone. The words themselves are worth thousands of imaginative thoughts.

Enough said. Good luck in your journey.

No but maybe both of us have misinterpreted each others words... you say you didn't accuse me of anything, and I have not accused you of anything so maybe we can both just apologize? I will go first... if you took anything I said the wrong way I apologize, I did not mean anything I said in that entire thread as an accusation or name calling or whatever you said above.

As for the subject of spiritual / non spiritual... I don't think we can ever agree... so we have to just acknowledge that others have different views than our own and move on. If this forum alludes to one specific camp, then there are other forums I have stated which are more in line with my views.

I wish you well Tejwant Ji.

 

[harmanpreet singh]

I will make you a Judge to decide after my explanation. Kindly quote that pantki where you are 100% sure.

Sir you circumvented my question ,so let me repeat ..

i will give you as many panktis as you wish but first kindly answer me a question .


is there any(even single one ) translation or teeka of Guru Granth sahib ji that you agree with ,be in any languge English or Gurmukhi ?

 

[Sherdil]

Oh and the love thing was not related to boxes at all.. it was a response to Sherdil's post where he asked to explain how you know something was real, how do you explain what the experience was like... I used love as a comparison, because people who are in love can't easily put it into words. It had nothing to do with boxes as you stated.

That's not what I said. All I wanted to know is what happens when someone hears the celestial music. Do they find inner peace, or is there something more (such as talking to spirits, astral projection and recollecting past lives)? I felt that your insistence on "going beyond the physical" and "seeing things that can't be unseen" warranted this inquiry.

Here are my posts from that thread. I have copy-pasted them verbatim here. I have included some of your posts as well, for context:

I'd like to know, what is the end result of feeling these vibrations and listening to the celestial music? Does it give you special powers? Can one see the Matrix (if you get the movie reference)? Or does one conquer the self, thus creating harmony with the world around you? I think the latter is the epitome of destroying Haumai and blending with the Shabadh.

Not unless you consider realization that there is much more than the physical, and that you are much more than your physical shell a special power? I don't... however that realization certainly IS powerful!

Okay. What happens after you realize that?

I really want to know. What is the end result of hearing this celestial music? What happens?

Why can't I ask this question?

You guys are getting offended because you are reading too much into my question. I have nothing up my sleeve. There are no hidden traps. Imagine if a non-Sikh asked you this question. What would you say to them?

Exactly. When people use words like "spiritual" or "I have seen something that cannot be unseen" or "I can't describe it", then that gets me worried. I have no idea if they are referring to what is written in gurbani or something else. For all I know, they could be talking about having conversations with ghosts, astral projection, recollecting past lives, etc. These all fall under the category of "spiritual" and they all go beyond the "physical world". I don't believe that they can't elaborate on their experiences. GGS contains 1430 pages describing this state of divine bliss and love. If that is what they are referring to, then there are so many shabadhs they can reference to drive home their point, like the one Linzer pulled.

This is my whole point of asking the question. Listening to the "celestial music" brings peace of mind. The devotees remain in bliss. Their guilt and sorrows are erased. One can even say it is therapeutic, therefore within the realm of psychology. What else is the realization of "oneness" with everything supposed to achieve?

 

[AngloSikhPeace]

Hmm...

This is a nasty state of affairs. Just how things go on the internet, I have come to realise. The internet only brings out the worst in good people. I've tried to stop using forums before as well. But they're too addictive. You get sucked in, wanting to be right, feeling this urge to correct and contradict and dispute. But in the end it's meaningless.

Advice for Akasha and the others: do not assume that the attitude you see on the internet is the real one. If people seem rude or arrogant or off-putting, then this is because they are communicating by little messages and are separated by thousands of miles. In real life, they're not bad people. You will find Sangat, true Sangat, in the Gurdwaras, with your families, in your neighbourhood. You won't find that online.

Years ago, when I first came furtively and hesitantly to the Gurdwara, like a refugee from my old faith, I wanted to find a teacher. Someone to explain to me everything about Sikhi and guide me into a new life. I was told that instead I should just study Guruji by myself, and use the internet to find out everything that I didn't understand. I did this, but it just led to more and more torment. I didn't understand what Sikhi really meant, I just became more and more attached to things, got filled up with pride. And when I couldn't fulfil that pride, when I couldn't live up to the ridiculous fantasy standard of what I should be like, it came crashing down. I began to become mentally-ill, eventually it was very serious. I lost everything. My education, my friends, my physical health. On and off, this kept happening for the next few years.
And yet, when I turned away, when I learned to actually read Gurbani instead of what people said about it, things got better. I began to understand.
So, here is my advice. Don't trust the internet. Read and understand yourself, and learn from proper real life Sangat, not people like me or Harry or Tejwant. We are just bits of writing. If you have truly been given the gift by Waheguru, then understanding will flow like refreshing water. It liberates everything from the cycle of confusion and doubt. True, that's just the first step, it won't make you perfect. But it's necessary.

That'll be it from me. I'm going to try to go away for good now. The internet ruins my personality here too, it's time that I stop taking the antisocial ways of more 'aggressive' forums over into this one. I leave you in peace.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

 

[Harry Haller]

This is a nasty state of affairs

no it isnt, a nasty state of affairs is what is happening in Iraq, where Ravi Singh happens to be right now, thats nasty, this is not nasty, thisis not even in the nasty league.

Just how things go on the internet, I have come to realise. The internet only brings out the worst in good people. I've tried to stop using forums before as well. But they're too addictive. You get sucked in, wanting to be right, feeling this urge to correct and contradict and dispute. But in the end it's meaningless.

It is is our role as people, as Sikhs to try and help first and feed our ego second, some of us believe that in doing so, it brings us closer to Creator or goddy if you so wish. As Sikhs none of us wish to be right, just true, the title of this thread is who are you really, well, I would say we are the truth, if we wish to be, however, changing anothers mind is not true in any way shape or form, providing information is fine, bullying is not, neither is a conviction that ones truth is the only true truth.

Advice for Akasha and the others: do not assume that the attitude you see on the internet is the real one. If people seem rude or arrogant or off-putting, then this is because they are communicating by little messages and are separated by thousands of miles. In real life, they're not bad people. You will find Sangat, true Sangat, in the Gurdwaras, with your families, in your neighbourhood. You won't find that online.

I disagree, every comma, every vowel speaks volumes, when I read post mosts I get an idea of what the poster is attempting to say, be it angry, sad, happy, it all comes through, especially when you take on board someones writing style, no its not that hard to get a grip of what is trying to be said,.

Years ago, when I first came furtively and hesitantly to the Gurdwara, like a refugee from my old faith, I wanted to find a teacher. Someone to explain to me everything about Sikhi and guide me into a new life. I was told that instead I should just study Guruji by myself, and use the internet to find out everything that I didn't understand. I did this, but it just led to more and more torment. I didn't understand what Sikhi really meant, I just became more and more attached to things, got filled up with pride. And when I couldn't fulfil that pride, when I couldn't live up to the ridiculous fantasy standard of what I should be like, it came crashing down. I began to become mentally-ill, eventually it was very serious. I lost everything. My education, my friends, my physical health. On and off, this kept happening for the next few years.
And yet, when I turned away, when I learned to actually read Gurbani instead of what people said about it, things got better. I began to understand.

sounds like a baptism of fire, I am glad you made it through

So, here is my advice. Don't trust the internet.

or you could just employ discretion and logic to sort the wheat from the chaff

Read and understand yourself, and learn from proper real life Sangat, not people like me or Harry or Tejwant

I am actually here because of real life sangat! Although I have said it before and I will say it again, I am nothing more than comic relief, whilst Tejwantji mostly plays Devils advocate, we are only the small boys asking why the emperor has no clothes, nothing more.

But look at it, the fine stitching, the beautiful silks, the colours

but he is not wearing any clothes

ahhh thats because you are not enlightened enough to see it!

but he is not wearing any clothes

ahhhh but we can see it, are they not so beautiful, maybe if you can get to our level, you can see it too

but he is not wearing any clothes

and so forth..

That'll be it from me. I'm going to try to go away for good now. The internet ruins my personality here too, it's time that I stop taking the antisocial ways of more 'aggressive' forums over into this one. I leave you in peace.

This is a fantatsic thread, but one that would be have been closed long ago by my beloved big sis, I find the only aggression to be displayed by those that are frustrated at not sharing the emperors beautiful clothes.

Akashaji, no one drove you away, you made that choice yourself, and I find it hard to read statements like this because it tarnishes the whole forum as rigid and almost fascist. This forum is about debate and interaction, not about trying to prove someone right or wrong, it is through this that we can all learn.