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When Dasam Granth Becomes An Issue?

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When Dasam Granth Becomes an Issue?
by Gurmukh Singh

Dasam Granth becomes an issue only when, much against Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s final command, it is treated as equal to Guru Granth Sahib.

For a vast majority of main stream Sikhs, Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the One and Only Shabd Guru.

In one darbaar (royal court) there can only be one entity on the throne. In Gur-darbaar, there can only be one Sacha Patshah (True King); only one focus of worship. Few Sikhs would argue against the central Sikh belief that Gurbani, of which Guru Granth Sahib is the embodiment, is The Shabd Guru. It follows that parkaash of Dasam Granth (i.e. opening for reading and paying respects to) at the same place as Guru Granth Sahib is manmatt. That is when Dasam Granth becomes a divisive issue for the Panth. It need not have become an issue, because Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s final command is clear to all.

I believe the reason is that elements within and outside the Panth, mix up the two issues. The first is that of Guruship of Guru Granth Sahib which demands total respect, so that there is no other entity competing for Sangat’s worship in Gur-darbaar. The second is the age old question of authenticity of Dasam Granth as the work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

If there is no confusion about the real issue, which is that of the status of Dasam Granth as being not equal to “Guru” as per Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s Own Command, the second issue of originality of the many diverse compositions in Dasam Granth becomes a secondary and less divisive. Firstly, Khalsa Panth has included the Banis of Jaap Sahib and Ten Sawayyas and accepted them as the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. That cannot be in dispute.

Once the real issues in this debate have been agreed, and one sees no reason why there should any difficulty about that, then it is over to Sikh scholars and students. In Dasam Granth we have literature collated in the name of Dasam Guru, albeit, after the Guru-person had departed in 1708. Many scholars have done research and some like Dr Ratan Singh Jagi have given very balanced views based on original research.

It is only a simple next step for the Takhts to set up a panel of Gursikh scholars to continue this research. It may be that many banis would be unanimously accepted as the works of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Others may be close to the borderline, whilst some may be adjudged not to be those of Guru Sahib; or, not even having the seal of His approval. In any case, the results of such ongoing research would be made available to all without any compulsion to accept or reject it.

Surely, The Guru would have approved of such a course of action by the Khalsa Panth, so that, whilst Dasam Granth is treated as part of rich Sikh heritage, it does not become a divisive issue.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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And the issue becomes even more "cancerous"..when people like Jathdar Iqbal Singh of Patna Sahib ( who should know better) begin saying preposterous things like.."Mnay of those opposing dsm granth are suffering from incurable diseases, are in very big trouble..many have bone cancer..blah blah blah.
Such nonsense was also spread by the Pro Raagmalla group..and the most famous person so maligned was none other than Bhai Randhir Singh of AKJ - this man was presented with Siropas Robes of Honour at ALL FIVE TAKHATS..at a time when such honours were not given out so freely as they are today and especially NOT to a KNOWN ANTI-GOVT person who had served nearly 25 Yeras behind Bars in British Prisons - from a Respected Vicil Servat of the British Govt to its Prisoner of Conscience because he fought agianst teh Govt decison tp break down part of Gurdwara Rakab Ganj Gurdwara in order to build a staight road to Parliament house)....weel i digress..the FAKE STORY put out by the Pro raagmalla Group was that since Bahi Randhir Singh ji didnt beleive in Raagmala to eb Gurbani, he died a terrible death..worms having infested his mouth and throat..blah blah blah. OF Course since this fake story ahd no basis whatsoever, it was often told VERBALLY in Congregations in which these Sants spoke...and this is why now their students in various Academies named after "Guru Sahibs" _ Guur Arjun Ji, Guru Amardass Ji, and Guru Klagidhar Sahib ji etc etc... as smokescreen but essentially to produce "pond Fish" types of blind followers of the sant deras ..can NOW trun around and say..NO..our Sant baba would never say such a thing !!
WELL we have their Jathedar now SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING...and its also based on the very same "facts" that the earlier "sant-Brahmgyanis" spread about peopel who dont read raagmalla will have worms in tongue..The Only difference NOW is that we have the Internet, News media, RECORDERS and all..so this time the Jathedar cannot deny it so easily...BUT they are so thick skin..they will do that as well ( when their ridiculous stance becomes too apparent)..

2. The dsm granth issue is a NON ISSUE..needlessly being spun by just a MINORITY GROUP well funded and free to do its "job" of keeping the Guru Khalsa Panth divided and at each others throats. It can die a natural death if left unattended...but then that is not on the Agenda of Panth DOKHIS...so the ONLY Natural recourse is to EDUCATE the SIKH PUBLIC about the REALITY of dsm Granth and thats what is being done..

3. The Nitnem banis issue is a SEPARATE ISSUE all together and is also a non issue as all agree on this all along. No Panj Piayara group/Amrtisanchaar has been held where these Banis were disputed/replaced..and this will Never happen.Guru Khalsa Panth Amrti and Nitnem is no dnager from anybody..except the Rumour Mongering group who have an Agenda to divide the Panth further...and keep its edivided.:happy:
 

BhagatSingh

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I dont get it Jarnail Singh ji, Aren't nitnem banis part of DG issue? I mean most of nitnem comes from DG. If DG is under dispute the banis must be.

dsm granth issue is a NON ISSUE..needlessly being spun by just a MINORITY GROUP
Is the minority group the ones who say DG is written by GGS or the opposite?
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The Nitnem Banis are decided by MARYADA...Sikh Rehat Maryada.
The Nitnem Banis are used during the KHandey batte Dee Pahul Ceremony to admit a SIKH into the KHALSA Brotherhood.

1. THE SGGS is ONE and ONLY GURU of ALL SIKHS...including those who have taken Khandey batte dee Pahul and those who havent.
GGS matha tek and passed on Gurgadee to ONLY SGGS. No other Granth was ever parkashed on Par...as is being done at various places and being actively promoted by teh Pro DG lobby. THIS is UNACCEPTABLE. Hence the Issu out of a non Issue.
There is NO Danger to khandey Batte dee Pahul IF the DG is probed and parts of it are JUDGED on basis of SGGS Gurbani.This wild claim is another weapon of the pro dg lobby...again a issue out of anon issue..
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Bhagat Ji..
BOTH..anti-dg and Pro-dg are MINORITY. The Vast Middle Ground consists of SIKHS who havent made any decision either way..The SGPC/Akal Takhat/and our Leaders who are supposed to provide leadership and show us the way..have FAILED in their DUTY and left everything hanging - UNDECIDED and wishy washy decisions make everything worse.Calls were made for Comittees to bes et up..after a lot of dilly dallying MORIBUND Comittees were set up never to meet or come to any decisions. Meanwhile BOTH MINORITY GROUPS continue to HARDEN their stance...While earlier many in the PRO-DG Fcation were amenable to dropping the obviously pornographic compositions like Charitarpakhoyan hikayats etc...and the Anti-DG Faction accepted the Bnais like Jaap Sahib, Swaiyas, Akal ustatt etc...NOW the situation has deterirated so far that the Pro Dgs now say 100% of dg is GGS Kirt..the AntiDG faction reject 100% of it...and even DROPPED the Chandi vaar pauree from ARDAS !! This is due to the ongoing ABDICATION of their responsibility by the SGPC/Takhat jathedars etc that was vested in them by the Guru Khalsa Panth. What is worse is the Pro DG faction has begun to raise objections/doubts on SGGS as well..in an effort to prove that dg is also gurbani same as SGGS...
The Vast MAJORITY of SIKHS havent even SEEN a copy of DG much less read it...so to them all this is a NON-ISSUE being thrown up by vested interests to keep the Sikh DIVIDED. ( In Fact most SIKHS havent read the SGGS either !!..so ALL OUR ENERGIES MUST FIRST be towards PROMOTING SGGS rather than a secondary book)
 

japjisahib04

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Giani Jarnail Singh Ji

Giani Iqbal Ji is the most sickening person. I wonder how and who chose these type of people as Jathedar. Donot we have any way to get rid of these type of people. I remember once a jatha had come to promote DG. In their discourse one of the raagi went too extreme while promoting pornographic compositions like charitarpakhoyan hikayats on one of the pankti relating with breast that he forget we are sitting in sadh sanghat. that ultimately one devotee had to get up and raise the question whether he is giving discourses on gurbani or I am sorry but to write 'activating our system'
.
Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Mohinder Singh Sahni Ji,
Gurfateh.

These are a BLIGHT on our beautiful and modern Religion....these are the Ball/Chain and Berrian that tie our feet down and drag Gurmatt backwards towards the DARK AGES..when Guru nanak ji is..the DAWN of LIGHT..mitee dhunnd jaag chanana hoa !! These dead snakes have been put around our neck ( as in pics of Shivji )..i look forward to the day when we throw off these dead snakes and rid us of the chains that bind us down...
 
May 24, 2008
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IMHO the best remedy for DG shall be to make each creation of DG eg Akal Ustat , Pakhyans & every creation be separated & printed as they are each one separately . They should not be under any circumstances compiled as a single volume . That way the PARALELL PRAKASH problem will be automatically taken care of & so will be the name DASHAM GRANTH problem ( which shall no longer exist )
 

spnadmin

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dalbirk ji

:advocate::advocate::advocate: You are stating an historical truth. For some time after the death of Sri Guru Gobind Singh the texts now called the Dasam Granth were separate and were not part of one book. They were compiled as a single bir in the 19th Century. Naming that book Dasam Granth came later than that (The date is 1902). It is contributing factor to the skepticism of critics on the "anti" side. They see that lapse in time as very suspicious and something that intersects with a very political moment in Sikh history when the SinghSaba movement split over, among other things, Brahmanism.
 
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Randip Singh

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And the issue becomes even more "cancerous"..when people like Jathdar Iqbal Singh of Patna Sahib ( who should know better) begin saying preposterous things like.."Mnay of those opposing dsm granth are suffering from incurable diseases, are in very big trouble..many have bone cancer..blah blah blah.
Such nonsense was also spread by the Pro Raagmalla group..and the most famous person so maligned was none other than Bhai Randhir Singh of AKJ - this man was presented with Siropas Robes of Honour at ALL FIVE TAKHATS..at a time when such honours were not given out so freely as they are today and especially NOT to a KNOWN ANTI-GOVT person who had served nearly 25 Yeras behind Bars in British Prisons - from a Respected Vicil Servat of the British Govt to its Prisoner of Conscience because he fought agianst teh Govt decison tp break down part of Gurdwara Rakab Ganj Gurdwara in order to build a staight road to Parliament house)....weel i digress..the FAKE STORY put out by the Pro raagmalla Group was that since Bahi Randhir Singh ji didnt beleive in Raagmala to eb Gurbani, he died a terrible death..worms having infested his mouth and throat..blah blah blah. OF Course since this fake story ahd no basis whatsoever, it was often told VERBALLY in Congregations in which these Sants spoke...and this is why now their students in various Academies named after "Guru Sahibs" _ Guur Arjun Ji, Guru Amardass Ji, and Guru Klagidhar Sahib ji etc etc... as smokescreen but essentially to produce "pond Fish" types of blind followers of the sant deras ..can NOW trun around and say..NO..our Sant baba would never say such a thing !!
WELL we have their Jathedar now SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING...and its also based on the very same "facts" that the earlier "sant-Brahmgyanis" spread about peopel who dont read raagmalla will have worms in tongue..The Only difference NOW is that we have the Internet, News media, RECORDERS and all..so this time the Jathedar cannot deny it so easily...BUT they are so thick skin..they will do that as well ( when their ridiculous stance becomes too apparent)..

2. The dsm granth issue is a NON ISSUE..needlessly being spun by just a MINORITY GROUP well funded and free to do its "job" of keeping the Guru Khalsa Panth divided and at each others throats. It can die a natural death if left unattended...but then that is not on the Agenda of Panth DOKHIS...so the ONLY Natural recourse is to EDUCATE the SIKH PUBLIC about the REALITY of dsm Granth and thats what is being done..

3. The Nitnem banis issue is a SEPARATE ISSUE all together and is also a non issue as all agree on this all along. No Panj Piayara group/Amrtisanchaar has been held where these Banis were disputed/replaced..and this will Never happen.Guru Khalsa Panth Amrti and Nitnem is no dnager from anybody..except the Rumour Mongering group who have an Agenda to divide the Panth further...and keep its edivided.:happy:


Excellent points.
 

spnadmin

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With your indulgence, I want to give an example of why SGPC should either a) get down to the business of expert textual analysis of disputed portions of Dasam Granth or b) stand back and permit intelligent members of the panth engage in critical debate without the experience of being called slanderers and heretics.

On Sikhiwiki there is a puzzling exposition of Chaubis Avtars (24 Avatars). In this article the author presents an argument that Sri Guru Gobind Singh is the author of the entire text. First he states that the Chaubis Avtar was composed over several periods. Then he states that it opens with 38 clarifications -- that are clearly the thinking and writing of Dasam Pita and set the stage for a correct understanding of the remaining portion. The parts that follow the clarification are essentially praises of Vedic deities. He concludes that the last section should be accepted as Bani of Dasam Pita because the earlier section makes it clear that Dasam Pita has given the proper context for understanding references to Puranic tests.

I have copied key parts of the article so you can see what I am referring to.

The first part where it is stated that the Chaubis Avtar was composed over a period of time

Chaubis Autar does not appear to be the work of one period. It was a long project which was in execution for a decade or more. While Krishnavtar is stated in verse 2, 490-91 to have been composed in Samvat 1745/AD 1688 at Paonta when Guru Gobind Singh was residing there, Ram Avtar, according to verses 860-61 was composed at Anandpur in Samvat 1755/AD 1698 near the temple of Nainadevi, close to the bank of the River Sutlej.
...
Here the author is stating that readers should understand that the 24 avatars should not be worshiped; yet he also states that Guru Gobind Singh believed they were historical facts.
The aim behind the bani was to tell the Sikh Jagat to know what these 24 avtars were, Guru sahib never worshipped these avtars but he created this historical account of Vishnu, not only vishnu but Shiv and brahma too.

The description of 24 Avtars given in Sri Dasam Granth are the incarnations of god Vishnu. The most important of all the Avtars are Rama and Krishna; It is mistaken belief of Hindus to call them as the Supreme God. It was to clarify the Mistaken Beliefs of people that the Avtars were God, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee took pains to write about these 24 Avtars, giving their limitations and pitfalls. It was never the intention to teach to worship them, but to enlighten people to Worship One Creator God Alone, Who is Infinite and is the Ultimate.
...
So essentially, the author is expecting readers to accept that the avatars are factual and Guru Gobind Singh is instructing his Sikhs to believe that incarnations of Waheguru happened not once but 23 times, with one more to come. This in spite of other bani that instructs Sikhs that the Sat does not incarnate.That Sikhs should not worship the avatars; nonetheless it is acceptable to buy into the idea that avatars are believable.

Now the author presents the 38 clarifications and argues that Guru Gobind Singh wrote this first so that Sikhs would not become worshippers of the avatars. These come at the beginning of the Chaubis Avtar. The passage also states that Sikhs should keep in mind that Guru Gobind Singh kept his compositions separate from Granth Sahib to avoid confusion. But it also implies that Guru Gobind Singh found the Puranic content so persuasive that he needed to integrate it with his own thinking.

Note these are the author's explanations of the early part of Chaubis Avtar
Here under are the 38 Introductory Points of the 24 Avtars, as stated by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee, which should ever be kept in Mind while examining the translations of Hindu Sacred Books made by the Guru and included in Sri Dasam Granth. It was due to these translations of Hindu sacred books of Hindus having different approach from the Sikh; the Guru decided that his Compositions to remain separate from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. These translations make a Sikh to appreciate GURMAT more clearly than otherwise, if any one would read judiciously.


  1. Chaupai – Now I recite as I have seen the feats of the 24 incarnations.O Saints! Listen to it attentively; Poet Shyam will describe them according to wisdom blessed him by God.
  2. As and when many inimical persons emerge (and the spirit of righteousness decreases), it is supposed that the incarnation of god Vishnu take place. The Time aspect of the Lord God (Kal) beholds the feats of all and ultimately perishes one and all.
  3. Kal is the ultimate Creator of all and ultimately subsumes all in Him. He assumes His many forms and at the end merges all in Him.
  4. KAL created the Ten Incarnations and in all of them pervades Himself (The Transcendent Lord). Beside ten, fourteen other incarnations have also been created and the feats they have performed are delineated here.
  5. Kal (Supreme Lord) keeping His Own Name concealed and not shouldering any blame holds all others responsible for their evils. This fact I know already that He keeps Himself detached from the temporal activities of this world.
  6. Kal Himself creates, Himself destroys but making others the efficient CAUSE FOR THE GOOD AND EVIL HOLDS THEM RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DEEDS.
  7. The so called 24 incarnations, O Lord, could not maintain even an iota of You. Becoming worldly kings they got deluded in the worldly affairs and are known by many names.
  8. O Lord! You have been deluding one and all but You Yourself were never deceived by anybody. That is why You are called the Deluder (Chaliya) also. Seeing the saints suffering, You become anguished and that is why You are called Friend of the poor (Deen-bandhu).
  9. Time to time You annihilate the whole Universe and that is why this world calls You KAL also. On different occasions and in different Ages You have been helping the saints and accordingly these Avtars have been counted by the saints.
  10. Seeing the helpless, You show Your kindness and realizing this we call You the Friend of the poor ones. Your compassionate sentiments rain upon the saints and that is why the world calls You the Treasure of Compassion.
  11. You always wipe out the troubles of the saints and that is why Your one Name is Trouble Wiper, Sankatharan. You have been destroying the suffering of the saints and that is why You are called Perisher of the Suffering.
  12. You are ever Eternal and none could know Your mystery. That is why Your Name is Infinite, and is also known. In the world You through Your Light assume the forms of all and that is why Your Name is called the Creator also.
  13. None could perceive You so far, so Your Name is Imperceptible, is also known. You never take birth in the world and that is why You are called Unborn by the people.
  14. In the process of knowing Your mystery, the poor fellows, Brahma, Vishnu, Mehesh etc. have got tired. Moon and Sun also ponder upon You, that is why You are known as their Creator.
  15. You also remain without any guise so the world says You are beyond ALL THE GARBS. Your Invisible Form is not known to anybody and that is why You are delineated as Imperceptible.
  16. Your Beauty is Incomparable and Form Infinite, guise or no guise You are different from all. You are the Giver to all and You Yourself beg from nobody. That is why we know you in the form of Creator.
  17. You do not get influenced by the omens and the auspicious time etc., this s known to whole world. No Mantra, Yantra or Tantra can make You happy and even through different garbs none could attain You.
  18. The Creatures of the world are deeply engrossed in their own selfish ends and none has identified the Transcendent Lord. To attain You many go to the cemeteries or the cremation grounds but in both these places no Lord is there.
  19. These both types of persons engrossed in their infatuations and oral debates are waste, but O Lord! You are different from these both. Attaining Whom one clears away the delusions of the heart, before that Lord, no one is Hindu or a Muslim.
  20. One uses beads and the other keeps rosary; one recites the Holy Koran and the other Purans. Persons of both these sects are dying while opposing each other and none of these have got the fast color of the love of the Lord.
  21. Those who have dyed the fast color of the Lord, their repudiating the worldly shame dance in sheer happiness. Those who have identified the one primal Lord from their hearts the sense of duality has perished.
  22. Those who are absorbed in the sense of duality i.e. who consider them separate from the Lord are in fact away from meeting Lord, the Supreme Friend. Who has even a BIT UNDERSTOOD THE Lord in fact has understood Him as the Supreme Reality.
  23. As much as yogis, ascetics, the shaven heads and Muslim Fakirs are there, they assuming their different guises are looting the world. The saints whose total base is the Name of the Lord, never become manifest before the people and keep themselves concealed.
  24. The worldly creatures show their hypocrisies just for the sake of bread and butter because without hypocrisy they do not get any monetary profits. The person who has concentrated upon one supreme reality, has never shown any pretensions to anybody.
  25. Without pretensions the selfish ends are not attained and none bows before anybody. Has this belly not been there attached with the body, no body would have been king or a pauper in this world.
  26. Those who have accepted God as One, have never shown pretensions to anybody. Such person gets his head cut but never repudiates the Truth. And only such person accepts this body as a particle of dust.
  27. Split ear, the individual is known as Yogi, who being variously hypocritical goes to the forest. If he has not realized the essence of the Name of the Lord, he is neither useful in the forest nor he remains of any use for the household.
  28. How long this poet can describe because one tongue cannot know the mystery of the Infinite. May be somebody has crores of tongues, even then the end limit of Your ocean of qualities cannot be known.
    POINT 29 IS MOST IMPORTANT – PLEASE NOTE.
  29. The Primal Lord, called the KAL is the Father of the whole Creation. It is from Him emerged the tremendous radiance, which is known by the Name of Bhavani. This God’s Light (Jot) is called Bhavani or Durga or Kali, etc., which created this Universe. (In Gurmat God’s Light (Jot) in all is called Guru, Satguru or Satguru Poora, verily God Himself).
  30. First He articulated Oankar and this resonance became diffused in the whole world. From this and the combination of Prakriti and Pursha, the world got expanded.
  31. The creation got created and since then this is known as the world. Grossly the four mines of creation are described (these are, egg, fetus, sweat and vegetation). I have not that much of power that could describe their various names.
  32. The Lord created both powerful and the weak and cleared the distinction of the high and low. The Mighty Kal (Lord) assuming bodies through His Light (Jot), manifested Himself in different forms.
  33. As and when He assumes the body by putting His Light, He becomes popular in the forms of different incarnations. But ultimately all merged in the Supreme Form of the Lord.
  34. As much as the number of the Jivas are there in the world, consider them all enlightened by the One Flame of the Lord. Whole of world subsumes in the Lord God, Who is known in the form of KAL
  35. Whatever is perceptible is given the name of Maya by our mind. He, the One pervades through all and people have established Him according to their own understandings.
  36. The Invisible Lord permeates all, and all the creatures according to their station in life due to their karmas beg of Him. Whosoever has known that Lord as One, only he has attained the Supreme Reality.
  37. His One Formless Form is superb and He only is at one place, a King and at other a pauper. He has entrapped all variously but Himself is detached from all, and none could know His mystery.
  38. In different forms He has created all and He only annihilates them differently. He never takes any responsibility of any wrong done; jivas are rather held responsible for their evils.”
...
In other words, the clarifications by Guru Gobind Singh give the green light, all systems GO, legitimacy to what follows. Go back and read Point 33 dear forum members.

As and when He assumes the body by putting His Light, He becomes popular in the forms of different incarnations. But ultimately all merged in the Supreme Form of the Lord.

This is not a clarification but a contradiction of the Mool Mantar, depending on how it is interpreted.


The author interprets it this way. And, this is on the Internet in a very popular Sikh web site, considered authoritative by many.

The 24 Avtars are the incarnations of god Vishnu, who himself was full of limitations. These three Trinity gods, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva had their weaknesses; they even committed crimes, told lies and indulged in adulterous affairs. Points 1 –6, 32 and 29 given above are Most Important. KAL is GOD, Who subsumes all the Creation. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib it is repeatedly stated that there is NO OTHER DESTROYER EXCEPT GOD. God’s Light (Jot) in all creatures, we call it Guru, Satguru and Satguru Poora; verily God Himself. Here the Guru states goddess Chandi , Bhaviani, Durga, Bhaawati, Kali, etc. are none else but God’s Light (Jot), which created the Universe, the Immanent or the Functional God, as part of the Transcendent God. This will explain the Guru’s version of Chandi Chritrars. Chandi or God’s Light or God in Man fights with the temptations of the instinctual passions, depicted as varied names of Demons.
....

A person of normal intelligence would be struck by the internal contradictions of this account. Is Guru Gobind Singh talking about the jyote that infuses creation and that alone? Or are we to take the incarnations and avtars literally? The author does not come down clearly on that question. Nor does he describe the 24 avatars as metaphors or the creation of myth. Instead he talks above about them as incarnations of Vishnu. He does on to describe

goddess Chandi , Bhaviani, Durga, Bhaawati, Kali, etc. are none else but God’s Light (Jot), which created the Universe, the Immanent or the Functional God, as part of the Transcendent God.
...

Problematic is understanding the "indivisible" Akaal as subdivided into functional aspects who are named as Hindu devtas. The author writes in such a way as he seems convinced of his own logic.

And now - to recap. We read an argument that sates that Guru Gobind Singh wrote the clarification sections first and a few years later added the peons describing the significance of the 24 avatars. Here are 3 basic problems with that argument, setting aside the logical problems that I tried to point out above.

1. Why would anyone write a clarification before writing the texts that need to be clarified?
2. Is it not possible that the earlier section of Chaubis Avtar was written by Guru Gobind Singh as a complete composition, with no intention of clarifying anything to follow -- because he did not write what follows and would have therefore no need to clarify it?
3. Why would Guru Gobind Singh write something that needed clarification? Or to put it another way, why would he write in contradiction to Gurbani and then some years later have second thoughts -- then decide that a clarification was needed?

This is the kind of thing that keeps this controversy whirling. And 3 years ago SGPC could have made more than a token effort to "study" the problem. It has the resources to pay for high level analysts to conduct textual, digital and hermeneutic analysis. The US government arrested the Unibomber within a couple of weeks after his brother turned over some letters and the grammar of his Manifesto and the grammar of his letters matched too exactly to be written by two different people.

I will not revisit the argument that the poet Shyam claims authorship of the Chaubis Avatar at the beginning of the composition, and that he inserts his name all over the text as kabi (kavi) shiaam. That is something to think about. If you want to follow that argument you can visit the blog of The Khalsa Fauj, an SPN forum member.

Just my thoughts.
 

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