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What Is Anhaad Naad?

Nov 14, 2008
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Lucky Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

Sorry to disappoint you but you would not be able to close the nine doors even if you plugged them all because Ik Ong Kaar created us like that. Even if you succeed, you will literally explode from the within through some of the doors. One can not fight against nature that Ik Ong Kaar created. I am sure you did not mean it like that.
.
Kabir ji closed the doors very well ,to experience Anahad ..

ਸੰਤਹੁ ਮਨ ਪਵਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਬਨਿਆ ॥
Sanṯahu man pavnai sukẖ bani▫ā.
O Saints, my windy mind has now become peaceful and still.

ਕਿਛੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਗਨਿਆ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Kicẖẖ jog parāpaṯ gani▫ā. Rahā▫o.
It seems that I have learned something of the science of Yoga. ||Pause||

ਗੁਰਿ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ਮੋਰੀ ॥
Gur ḏikẖlā▫ī morī.
The Guru has shown me the hole,

ਜਿਤੁ ਮਿਰਗ ਪੜਤ ਹੈ ਚੋਰੀ ॥
Jiṯ mirag paṛaṯ hai cẖorī.
through which the deer carefully enters.

ਮੂੰਦਿ ਲੀਏ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ॥
Mūnḏ lī▫e ḏarvāje.
I have now closed off the doors,

ਬਾਜੀਅਲੇ ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਜੇ ॥੧॥
Bājī▫ale anhaḏ bāje. ||1||
and the unstruck celestial sound current resounds. ||1||

ਕੁੰਭ ਕਮਲੁ ਜਲਿ ਭਰਿਆ ॥
Kumbẖ kamal jal bẖari▫ā.
The pitcher of my heart-lotus is filled with water;

ਜਲੁ ਮੇਟਿਆ ਊਭਾ ਕਰਿਆ ॥
Jal meti▫ā ūbẖā kari▫ā.
I have spilled out the water, and set it upright.

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥
Kaho Kabīr jan jāni▫ā.
Says Kabeer, the Lord's humble servant, this I know.

ਜਉ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਤਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੨॥੧੦॥
Ja▫o jāni▫ā ṯa▫o man māni▫ā. ||2||10||
Now that I know this, my mind is pleased and appeased. ||2||10||



http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=656&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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harmanpreet singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am a bit confused here. Your above post has nothing to do with what I said to Lucky Singh ji.

Do you know which 9 doors Lucky Singh ji is talking about that he thinks he must close in order to open the 10th one? Guru Amardas explains them well in the Anand where he says the 9 doors are left open by Ik Ong Kaar. There must be some reason about it. Here is that verse from the Anand:

ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਗੁਫਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਵਜਾਇਆ ॥
Har jī▫o gufā anḏar rakẖ kai vājā pavaṇ vajā▫i▫ā.
The Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body.
ਜੀਉ = ਜਿੰਦ। ਗੁਫਾ = ਸਰੀਰ। ਪਵਣੁ ਵਾਜਾ ਵਜਾਇਆ = ਸੁਆਸ-ਰੂਪ ਵਾਜਾ ਵਜਾਇਆ, ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ।
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਰੀਰ-ਗੁਫ਼ਾ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ।

ਵਜਾਇਆ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਉਣ ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਕੀਏ ਦਸਵਾ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖਾਇਆ ॥
vajā▫i▫ā vājā pa▫uṇ na▫o ḏu▫āre pargat kī▫e ḏasvā gupaṯ rakẖā▫i▫ā.
He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.
ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ = ਨੌ ਗੋਲਕਾਂ, ੧ ਮੂੰਹ, ੨ ਕੰਨ, ੨ ਅੱਖਾਂ, ੨ ਨਾਸਾਂ, ਗੁਦਾ, ਲਿੰਗ।
ਸਰੀਰ ਨੂੰ ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ, ਨੱਕ ਕੰਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨੌ ਕਰਮ-ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪਰਤੱਖ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ, ਦਸਵੇਂ ਦਰ (ਦਿਮਾਗ਼) ਨੂੰ ਲੁਕਵਾਂ ਰੱਖਿਆ।

ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰੈ ਲਾਇ ਭਾਵਨੀ ਇਕਨਾ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥
Gurḏu▫ārai lā▫e bẖāvnī iknā ḏasvā ḏu▫ār ḏikẖā▫i▫ā.
Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, some are blessed with loving faith, and the Tenth Door is revealed to them.
ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰ = (ਭਾਵ,) ਦਿਮਾਗ਼ (ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ)। ਭਾਵਨੀ = ਸਰਧਾ, ਪ੍ਰੇਮ।
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ ਅਪੜਾ ਕੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਸਰਧਾ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੀ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦਸਵਾਂ ਦਰ ਭੀ ਵਿਖਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ-ਸੱਤਿਆ ਭੀ ਦੇ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਜੋ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਦਾ ਮੂਲ ਹੈ)।

ਤਹ ਅਨੇਕ ਰੂਪ ਨਾਉ ਨਵ ਨਿਧਿ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
Ŧah anek rūp nā▫o nav niḏẖ ṯis ḏā anṯ na jā▫ī pā▫i▫ā.
There are many images of the Lord, and the nine treasures of the Naam; His limits cannot be found.
ਤਹ = ਉਸ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਵਿਚ। ਅਨੇਕ ਰੂਪ ਨਾਉ = ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਰੂਪਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ। ਨਿਧਿ = ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨਾ।
ਉਸ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਵਿਚ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਰੂਪਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਵਿਆਪਕ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਉਹ ਨਾਮ-ਰੂਪਾਂ ਨੌ ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਭੰਡਾਰ ਭੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਅੰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈ ਸਕਦਾ (ਜੋ ਕਦੇ ਮੁੱਕਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ)।

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੈ ਜੀਉ ਗੁਫਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਵਜਾਇਆ ॥੩੮॥
Kahai Nānak har pi▫ārai jī▫o gufā anḏar rakẖ kai vājā pavaṇ vajā▫i▫ā. ||38||
Says Nanak, the Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body. ||38||
xxx॥੩੮॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਰੀਰ-ਗੁਫ਼ਾ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਭੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ ॥੩੮॥

Page 922

The English translation is from Sant Singh Khalsa and the Gurmukhi explanation is from Prof. Sahib Singh.
 

Harry Haller

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Jan 31, 2011
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For example, if I have in my own experience something which I would describe in terms like "intuitive awareness" or "deep understanding" or "realization", etc., a similar experience might be something that another person would describe as a "4th state of consciousness" or something along those lines.
oh, I call that perception, I find it gets better as you get more connected.

I do believe they do a perception plus package where you get flashing lights and booming voices, but I have yet to experience the connection where you get that one, plenty talk about it though...........
 

Luckysingh

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Dec 4, 2011
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Lucky Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

Sorry to disappoint you but you would not be able to close the nine doors even if you plugged them all because Ik Ong Kaar created us like that. Even if you succeed, you will literally explode from the within through some of the doors. One can not fight against nature that Ik Ong Kaar created. I am sure you did not mean it like that.

Secondly, we need some of these nine doors for our own survival and also they can help us find the key to the 10th.
Closing the 9 doors or openings of the body is disassociating from them,......going antarghat......subduing....stilling the mind.
Your eyes, ears, nostrils are still working but you are not letting their functions distract to.... say...any outside noise won't override your steady state mind.

Isn't physical death when all body functions and 9 openings stop functioning ?
In same way, closing these openings by making the internal distance is how one dies in the shabad.
I recommend trying this death !


harmanpreet singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am a bit confused here. Your above post has nothing to do with what I said to Lucky Singh ji.

Do you know which 9 doors Lucky Singh ji is talking about that he thinks he must close in order to open the 10th one? Guru Amardas explains them well in the Anand where he says the 9 doors are left open by Ik Ong Kaar. There must be some reason about it. Here is that verse from the Anand:

ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਗੁਫਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਵਜਾਇਆ ॥
Har jī▫o gufā anḏar rakẖ kai vājā pavaṇ vajā▫i▫ā.
The Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body.
ਜੀਉ = ਜਿੰਦ। ਗੁਫਾ = ਸਰੀਰ। ਪਵਣੁ ਵਾਜਾ ਵਜਾਇਆ = ਸੁਆਸ-ਰੂਪ ਵਾਜਾ ਵਜਾਇਆ, ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ।
ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਰੀਰ-ਗੁਫ਼ਾ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ।

ਵਜਾਇਆ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਉਣ ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਕੀਏ ਦਸਵਾ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖਾਇਆ ॥
vajā▫i▫ā vājā pa▫uṇ na▫o ḏu▫āre pargat kī▫e ḏasvā gupaṯ rakẖā▫i▫ā.
He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.
ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ = ਨੌ ਗੋਲਕਾਂ, ੧ ਮੂੰਹ, ੨ ਕੰਨ, ੨ ਅੱਖਾਂ, ੨ ਨਾਸਾਂ, ਗੁਦਾ, ਲਿੰਗ।
ਸਰੀਰ ਨੂੰ ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ, ਨੱਕ ਕੰਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨੌ ਕਰਮ-ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪਰਤੱਖ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ, ਦਸਵੇਂ ਦਰ (ਦਿਮਾਗ਼) ਨੂੰ ਲੁਕਵਾਂ ਰੱਖਿਆ।

ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰੈ ਲਾਇ ਭਾਵਨੀ ਇਕਨਾ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥
Gurḏu▫ārai lā▫e bẖāvnī iknā ḏasvā ḏu▫ār ḏikẖā▫i▫ā.
Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, some are blessed with loving faith, and the Tenth Door is revealed to them.
ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰ = (ਭਾਵ,) ਦਿਮਾਗ਼ (ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ)। ਭਾਵਨੀ = ਸਰਧਾ, ਪ੍ਰੇਮ।
ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ ਅਪੜਾ ਕੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਸਰਧਾ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੀ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਦਸਵਾਂ ਦਰ ਭੀ ਵਿਖਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ-ਸੱਤਿਆ ਭੀ ਦੇ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਜੋ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਦਾ ਮੂਲ ਹੈ)।

ਤਹ ਅਨੇਕ ਰੂਪ ਨਾਉ ਨਵ ਨਿਧਿ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
Ŧah anek rūp nā▫o nav niḏẖ ṯis ḏā anṯ na jā▫ī pā▫i▫ā.
There are many images of the Lord, and the nine treasures of the Naam; His limits cannot be found.
ਤਹ = ਉਸ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਵਿਚ। ਅਨੇਕ ਰੂਪ ਨਾਉ = ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਰੂਪਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ। ਨਿਧਿ = ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨਾ।
ਉਸ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਵਿਚ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਰੂਪਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਵਿਆਪਕ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਉਹ ਨਾਮ-ਰੂਪਾਂ ਨੌ ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਭੰਡਾਰ ਭੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਅੰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈ ਸਕਦਾ (ਜੋ ਕਦੇ ਮੁੱਕਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ)।

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੈ ਜੀਉ ਗੁਫਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਵਜਾਇਆ ॥੩੮॥
Kahai Nānak har pi▫ārai jī▫o gufā anḏar rakẖ kai vājā pavaṇ vajā▫i▫ā. ||38||
Says Nanak, the Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body. ||38||
xxx॥੩੮॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਰੀਰ-ਗੁਫ਼ਾ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਭੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ ॥੩੮॥

Page 922

The English translation is from Sant Singh Khalsa and the Gurmukhi explanation is from Prof. Sahib Singh.

Taking the above into account, I am not mixing 9 treasures/nau nidh with 9 openings.
Prof. Sahib isn't very clear in explaining above and I would have to disagree with his mention of ਦਿਮਾਗ਼ (brain) as possible hidden gate !

ALSO, looking at the above verse, it tells me that it is chronological order, and that Nau nidh comes after dealing with 9 openings................
....Soul in body,... breath inside,.... then the 9 openings through which inside can interact/co-ordinate with outside,.... 10th door hidden but accessed via gate that opens by Guru's grace,....Then through this are the 9 treasures and many images forms of Guru revealed.


Guru Amardas ji also expounds on the above in raag Majh-ang 124

ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥
Na▫o ḏar ṯẖāke ḏẖāvaṯ rahā▫e.
Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,


ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥
Ḏasvai nij gẖar vāsā pā▫e.
come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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Closing the 9 doors or openings of the body is disassociating from them,......going antarghat......subduing....stilling the mind.
Your eyes, ears, nostrils are still working but you are not letting their functions distract to.... say...any outside noise won't override your steady state mind.

Isn't physical death when all body functions and 9 openings stop functioning ?
In same way, closing these openings by making the internal distance is how one dies in the shabad.
I recommend trying this death !





Taking the above into account, I am not mixing 9 treasures/nau nidh with 9 openings.
Prof. Sahib isn't very clear in explaining above and I would have to disagree with his mention of ਦਿਮਾਗ਼ (brain) as possible hidden gate !

ALSO, looking at the above verse, it tells me that it is chronological order, and that Nau nidh comes after dealing with 9 openings................
....Soul in body,... breath inside,.... then the 9 openings through which inside can interact/co-ordinate with outside,.... 10th door hidden but accessed via gate that opens by Guru's grace,....Then through this are the 9 treasures and many images forms of Guru revealed.


Guru Amardas ji also expounds on the above in raag Majh-ang 124

ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥
Na▫o ḏar ṯẖāke ḏẖāvaṯ rahā▫e.
Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,


ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥
Ḏasvai nij gẖar vāsā pā▫e.
come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate
Thank you lucky Ji,

I think you have explained it very well...
and i know you have explained it via your own experience of taking your attention within..

Through my own experience so far i agree with your fully here.

NO DOUBT is left in the minds of the seeker that experiences this :)
the greatest joy is when you experience yourself, then you read Gurbani and you realize...IT IS SPEAKING THE TRUTH...and then you trust 100% everything else that it describes...

Amazing..!
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Feb 20, 2012
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1,643
Lucky Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

Sorry to disappoint you but you would not be able to close the nine doors even if you plugged them all because Ik Ong Kaar created us like that. Even if you succeed, you will literally explode from the within through some of the doors. One can not fight against nature that Ik Ong Kaar created. I am sure you did not mean it like that.

Secondly, we need some of these nine doors for our own survival and also they can help us find the key to the 10th.

Tejwant Ji,

Sometimes i wonder why you take time to respond with such remarks...

God gave you the power of 'ATTENTION', the most powerful thing...its so amazing..

When we listen to an orchestra...there are so many instruments..yet we can single out any particular instrument (e.g. a violin) with our attention, and the sound of the violen gets louder (in our minds) and all other instruments fade away (in our minds)...

in the Same way you can move your attention from the 9 doors and focus your attention within...

This doesn't even need explaining
...don't you remember when you were in class at school and your teacher shouted "Tejwant ji, please pay attention to what i am saying", when you were looking out the classroom window day dreaming...? :)
in this instance it is not the school teacher, it is GOD, saying 'please for a brief moment, take your attention away from the outer world, stop day-dreaming for a moment (the classroom window, 9 doors) and put your attention within...i am talking to you..please try to listen....listen....can you hear me?, the TRUTH you read about in my BANI, i will now show that truth to you...'


Power of ATTENTION...lets use it.
 

Harry Haller

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Sometimes i wonder why you take time to respond with such remarks...
actually I agree with him...

God gave you the power of 'ATTENTION', the most powerful thing...its so amazing..
as amazing as doing a hard days work in the sun and trying to live a good honest life?

When we listen to an orchestra...there are so many instruments..yet we can single out any particular instrument (e.g. a violin) with our attention, and the sound of the violen gets louder (in our minds) and all other instruments fade away (in our minds)...

in the Same way you can move your attention from the 9 doors and focus your attention within...
to what end? at the end of the day you are talking about doing something that makes you feel good inside, the justification is that it is god given, well, so is masturbation, and that can have the same affect, and from reading some of the posts, the same addiction! IN fact is not anhaad naad related to the spiritual practice of Ghon naad?

This doesn't even need explaining...don't you remember when you were in class at school and your teacher shouted "Tejwant ji, please pay attention to what i am saying", when you were looking out the classroom window day dreaming...?
I know this is not directed at me, but it could have been, speaking for myself, I actually replied that the daydream was more interesting, I now spend most of my time in a daydream, and that is backed up by the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji :)

in this instance it is not the school teacher, it is GOD, saying 'please for a brief moment, take your attention away from the outer world, stop day-dreaming for a moment (the classroom window, 9 doors) and put your attention within...i am talking to you..please try to listen....listen....can you hear me?, the TRUTH you read about in my BANI, i will now show that truth to you...'
makes you wonder why they bothered writing the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
 

Tejwant Singh

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Lucky singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response. May be we are talking about the same thing using different words. Let me clarify from my side.

Closing the 9 doors or openings of the body is disassociating from them,......going antarghat......subduing....stilling the mind.
Your eyes, ears, nostrils are still working but you are not letting their functions distract to.... say...any outside noise won't override your steady state mind.
Could you elaborate for me how you dissociate yourself from a full bladder, or having the runs, or a sneeze or two etc. etc.? Guru Sahib in the pangti I mentioned says these 9 doors are open all the times. But I agree with you that we may shut our eyes but we see other things or imagine things. The same goes for all you have said. Yes, one breathes without noticing, sees without looking, hears without listening but all these doors remain open.

Isn't physical death when all body functions and 9 openings stop functioning ?
In same way, closing these openings by making the internal distance is how one dies in the shabad.
I recommend trying this death !
Not in the beginning. All kinds of fluids come out of our cavities after death and especially the ones who had been sick for sometime. But that is not the point here. We are just talking about semantics as I said in my post,"I am sure you did not mean it like that".

Which Shabad and what kind of death are you talking about above. Please elaborate.

Taking the above into account, I am not mixing 9 treasures/nau nidh with 9 openings.
I am not either. This is the reason I put the verse in bold to have your attention towards it because these two nines are different things.

Prof. Sahib isn't very clear in explaining above and I would have to disagree with his mention of ਦਿਮਾਗ਼ (brain) as possible hidden gate !
This is the beauty of Sikhi because we all evolve with time provided we keep on studying Gurbani and practing its teachings in our real life. I commend you for that because you have shown the wonderful metamorphosis in your posts since you started posting here.

Here is what Prof. Sahib said:

ਵਜਾਇਆ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਉਣ ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਕੀਏ ਦਸਵਾ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖਾਇਆ ॥
vajā▫i▫ā vājā pa▫uṇ na▫o ḏu▫āre pargat kī▫e ḏasvā gupaṯ rakẖā▫i▫ā.
He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.
ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ = ਨੌ ਗੋਲਕਾਂ, ੧ ਮੂੰਹ, ੨ ਕੰਨ, ੨ ਅੱਖਾਂ, ੨ ਨਾਸਾਂ, ਗੁਦਾ, ਲਿੰਗ।
ਸਰੀਰ ਨੂੰ ਬੋਲਣ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ, ਨੱਕ ਕੰਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨੌ ਕਰਮ-ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪਰਤੱਖ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ, ਦਸਵੇਂ ਦਰ (ਦਿਮਾਗ਼) ਨੂੰ ਲੁਕਵਾਂ ਰੱਖਿਆ।

In the Punjabi culture mind and ਦਿਮਾਗ਼ (brain) are used interchangeably.So, for me he meant the hard drive of the brain which is mind and we know how often Gurbani talks about mind and gives us the tools to lasso it. The rest happens with Ik Ong Kaar's grace as you know


ALSO, looking at the above verse, it tells me that it is chronological order, and that Nau nidh comes after dealing with 9 openings................
....Soul in body,... breath inside,.... then the 9 openings through which inside can interact/co-ordinate with outside,.... 10th door hidden but accessed via gate that opens by Guru's grace,....Then through this are the 9 treasures and many images forms of Guru revealed.
Please elaborate the above in lay man's terms for my understanding.

Guru Amardas ji also expounds on the above in raag Majh-ang 124

ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥
Na▫o ḏar ṯẖāke ḏẖāvaṯ rahā▫e.
Those who close off the nine gates, and restrain the wandering mind,


ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥
Ḏasvai nij gẖar vāsā pā▫e.
come to dwell in the Home of the Tenth Gate
What I understand about the above first verse is that when we have lassoed the five thieves with the help of our nine doors, because all these 5 thieves are there due to these nine doors plus our mind(thoughts), lechery just as one example. To urinate is a natural function where one does not need mind because when one has to go, one has to go without getting his/her pants wet. However, to have an erection for the sake of lechery is mind(ful). The same things go for all other doors; what one looks at, listens to,sniffs, smokes and the list goes on and on.

Thanks for the interesting interaction.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
Last edited:

Tejwant Singh

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Tejwant Ji,

Sometimes i wonder why you take time to respond with such remarks...

God gave you the power of 'ATTENTION', the most powerful thing...its so amazing..

When we listen to an orchestra...there are so many instruments..yet we can single out any particular instrument (e.g. a violin) with our attention, and the sound of the violen gets louder (in our minds) and all other instruments fade away (in our minds)...

in the Same way you can move your attention from the 9 doors and focus your attention within...

This doesn't even need explaining
...don't you remember when you were in class at school and your teacher shouted "Tejwant ji, please pay attention to what i am saying", when you were looking out the classroom window day dreaming...? :)
in this instance it is not the school teacher, it is GOD, saying 'please for a brief moment, take your attention away from the outer world, stop day-dreaming for a moment (the classroom window, 9 doors) and put your attention within...i am talking to you..please try to listen....listen....can you hear me?, the TRUTH you read about in my BANI, i will now show that truth to you...'


Power of ATTENTION...lets use it.
Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let me ask you one thing. Why have been so angry lately when you address your posts to me? I hope this is not the result of your meditation.

Stop assuming things. If you do not know, then ask or give your view point, the basic ingredients of a healthy debate that you have seem to have lost.

Your posts have been full of mockery lately and one wonders why! I have never been rude nor mocked you but asked you two questions that you have not responded to me yet. I am still waiting and I will respond to your post above when I have the answers to my very simple questions to you.

Allow me to remind you.

1. If you consider yourself a parrot.

2. I posted the following verse with the English translation by Sant Singh Khalsa and the other in Gurmukhi by Prof. Sahib Singh. They both are totally different about the same verse. Which one do you agree with and why?


ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
Socẖai socẖ na hova▫ī je socẖī lakẖ vār.
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.
ਸੋਚੈ = ਸੁਚਿ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ। ਸੋਚਿ = ਸੁਚਿ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ, ਸੁੱਚ। ਨ ਹੋਵਈ = ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ। ਸੋਚੀ = ਮੈਂ ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ।
ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ (ਭੀ) (ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਲ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ, (ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ (ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦੀ।


We are all here to interact and learn from each other. One member of this forum came to the conclusion that you had gotten quiet because of my questions but it does not seem like that.

Will wait for your response and let's stop this mockery of Sikhi and agree to disagree in an agreeable manner.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh
 
Nov 23, 2010
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2. I posted the following verse with the English translation by Sant Singh Khalsa and the other in Gurmukhi by Prof. Sahib Singh. They both are totally different about the same verse. Which one do you agree with and why?

ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
Socẖai socẖ na hova▫ī je socẖī lakẖ vār.
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.
ਸੋਚੈ = ਸੁਚਿ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ। ਸੋਚਿ = ਸੁਚਿ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ, ਸੁੱਚ। ਨ ਹੋਵਈ = ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ। ਸੋਚੀ = ਮੈਂ ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ।
ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ (ਭੀ) (ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਲ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ, (ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ (ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦੀ।

Tejwant Singh ji,
As English is the language of this fórum can you post a translation of Sahib Singh work. I'm interested in knowing what the difference is.
thanks
 

Tejwant Singh

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2. I posted the following verse with the English translation by Sant Singh Khalsa and the other in Gurmukhi by Prof. Sahib Singh. They both are totally different about the same verse. Which one do you agree with and why?

ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
Socẖai socẖ na hova▫ī je socẖī lakẖ vār.
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.
ਸੋਚੈ = ਸੁਚਿ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ। ਸੋਚਿ = ਸੁਚਿ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ, ਸੁੱਚ। ਨ ਹੋਵਈ = ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ। ਸੋਚੀ = ਮੈਂ ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ।
ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ (ਭੀ) (ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਲ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ, (ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ (ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦੀ।

Tejwant Singh ji,
As English is the language of this fórum can you post a translation of Sahib Singh work. I'm interested in knowing what the difference is.
thanks
Linzer ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for asking.Here is my take.

Sant Singh Khalsa: By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.

Firstly, the above translation makes no sense. Thought process is a normal thing. It is part of our DNA. Mann- Mind is the 'Thought Room' in us. Ik Ong Kaar is not reduced but expands within us through our more understanding of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru and that requires thought/thinking. One may have hundred of thoughts about the same thing or one can think about the same thing hundreds of times in order to solve the mind puzzle or find other solutions of the problems.

Yogi Bhajan translated it in the same way and when asked by me, he told me that he agreed with me about the wrong use of the word 'Soch' but it was too late for him to change that to his non-Punjabi followers, which is understandable because 3HO has never been about Sikhi but a business model based on Sikhi Baana which is their calling card.

Prof. Sahib Singh: Soch- Purity/Purify oneself by taking dips in holy waters and I happen to agree with this translation because it complements with the 4 schools of thoughts of Hinduism to attain god as described in this Pauri by Guru Nanak. One cannot become pure no matter how many times one takes dips in holy waters in different places as the ritual of pilgrimages in order to cleanse oneself.

Here are the four schools of thoughts according to Hinduism.
1. Soch- Purity/Purify by taking dips in holy waters in different places of worship as pilgrimages.
2. Chup-Mon Vrat. To remain silent for days and even months.
3. Fasting for days. Prof. Sahib Singh and Sant Singh both take this as gluttony/greed which may be right if we do not think or talk about the 4 schools of thought.
4. By studying Vedas and other holy books in order to become 'unwise knowledgeable' in a conniving manner.

This last part was only meant for the uppermost class of Hindus, Brahmins. This is the 4th school. In this one too, Sant Singh Khalsa and Prof. Sahib Singh mention this as-Being clever with which I happen to disagree because I am talking about the 4 schools of thought in Hinduism, not just random 4 thoughts by Guru Nanak. Guru Nanak was preaching his idea based way of life to Hindus in general because they were in the majority. Hence he talked in a simple language so Hindus from all sectors of life could grasp his simple message.

Sant Maskeen Singh ji explains the same way I think and I happen to agree with him.

I would like to expand on number four a bit. If the first part of the Pauri were 'Thinking’ as Sant Singh Khalsa claims, then this fourth part becomes repetitive because studying Vedas and other holy books also requires thinking/thought process.

We all know Guru Nanak was the best wordsmith. There are many examples of this in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Let me just give you one. He changed the whole meaning of the word by using just the letter ਅ. From ਸੰਖ which means 100,000 to ਅਸੰਖ meaning infinite.

If you have any other query please do not hesitate to ask.

Input from others would be highly appreciated.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

notanotherloginplease

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I think ਸੰਖ means the one which can be counted not 100,000. and ਅਸੰਖ means the one which is beyond counting, say infinity.

moreover "Sant Singh Khalsa: By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.

Firstly, the above translation makes no sense."
Actually makes sense.

How: Read next line as well to understand the whole frame of reference, from my minimal knowledge what I am interpreting is -

"if with our thinking we try to think about God, we wont be able to reduce it to thought, even if we try to think 100,000 time"

in next line, the "chup" he is talking about is about stillness/silence of mind, which is stopping mind from thinking anything and the paudi keeps going until "Hukam Rajaai chalna, nanak likhya naal" which is answer to all questions he wrote previously.

Bhul chuk di maafi dena ji :)
 

chazSingh

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as amazing as doing a hard days work in the sun and trying to live a good honest life?
Harry ji, seriously...what are you on about here? you replied the above to my reference of using the power of attention to seek God within....

Dont you not think you need the power of attention to focus on a hard days work? to live a good honest life? to save a person in a house on Fire, when the building around you is falling down...to Run a 100m Sprint at the Olympics when you are surrounded by the tension in the Crowd, the other events going on around you? Seriously? :)

Attention is used in everything you do, if your attention levels are low, you get easily distracted and are more likely to fail a task.

that same power of attention is used when we go within to hear the Shabad within...if my attention is always on Sex, Money, unfulfilled desires, egotistical ventures...greed, anger...then how on this beautiful earth can i hear the shabad within that Guru Ji is telling us to attach our minds to?

Please respond with at least something that is constructive...


to what end? at the end of the day you are talking about doing something that makes you feel good inside, the justification is that it is god given, well, so is masturbation, and that can have the same affect, and from reading some of the posts, the same addiction! IN fact is not anhaad naad related to the spiritual practice of Ghon naad?
You are comparing 'Experiencing the Truth of creation, the TRUTH of all existance, the TRUTH of experiencing the formless Waheguru to Masturbation? lol .. i think this sadly says it all really

I do not do what i do to feel Good...i do not do this for selfish reasons...if you have not deduced that yet from all of our interactions on this forum, then there is no point in any further interaction.



so please stop with this "you are doing this for selfish reasons..or you are doing this to feel good for yourself" i do this to experience the TRUTH...and so far the elements of Truth i've encountered are pretty damn mesmerizing :)

I know this is not directed at me, but it could have been, speaking for myself, I actually replied that the daydream was more interesting, I now spend most of my time in a daydream, and that is backed up by the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji :)
you have not read what i wrote...i am giving an example of using attention...where in the class a teacher would say pay attention...

I am not saying that Day dreaming is a bad thing lol but if your focus is on passing your maths exam, then daydreaming is not going to help...

pay attention to what i am saying lol :) (just a bit of humour, before Tejwant ji accuses me of something)



makes you wonder why they bothered writing the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
yup, especially when it seems people so bluntly ignore what it says...its a shame it cannot send a slap across the face to say "wake up, listen"

Deep within the self is the secret, but the fool looks for it outside.

ignore at your own peril... :)
 

chazSingh

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Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let me ask you one thing. Why have been so angry lately when you address your posts to me? I hope this is not the result of your meditation.
Tejwant ji, i litter my responses with smily faces, because i am writing with some humor...these are just words on a screen...very difficult to ascertain what the writer is feeling when writing :) :)

'I hope this is not the result of your meditation' .... one thing you should know...i take to Simran, and take to being a Sikh because i KNOW that i am strung by the hair by the 5 thieves...


your questions:

Allow me to remind you.

1. If you consider yourself a parrot. No ... i look a little like this smiley face :)


2. I posted the following verse with the English translation by Sant Singh Khalsa and the other in Gurmukhi by Prof. Sahib Singh. They both are totally different about the same verse. Which one do you agree with and why?


ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
Socẖai socẖ na hova▫ī je socẖī lakẖ vār.
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.
ਸੋਚੈ = ਸੁਚਿ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ। ਸੋਚਿ = ਸੁਚਿ, ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ, ਸੁੱਚ। ਨ ਹੋਵਈ = ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ। ਸੋਚੀ = ਮੈਂ ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ।
ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ (ਭੀ) (ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਲ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ, (ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ (ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦੀ।


I have already replied to the above with my own understanding of the verses above...which is based on my own experiences through my Simran...this may be incorrect to the academic, but for me it is perfect for where i currently reside on my journey to Waheguru:

my reply is shown below:


me personally...from my experience of 'mindfull' meditation, where i remain completely aware and alert and focused...

i can think (using intellect) over and over again, but i cannot even begin to fathom Waheguru Ji using thought...i can try, try until my head is going to explode...thinking will not allow me to experience Him.
He is beyond thought, and logic....but can be experienced...

By Remaining Silent, inner silence is not obtained...

from my experience...even though i am silent (very little thoughts, not speaking, not making any noise) there still isn't silence within me?

What is that sound i ask? where is it coming from? how is it created?
everything is silent, yet there is no silence....
do i put my faith in that sound? shall i ride along it's wave....i have no choice it has whisked me off my feet!

Wow...oh wow....wahe ...wondrous....woundrous this is... Wah...
Waheguru Waheguru, waheguru my mind utters in AWE of this...what else can i say...what words can i use, nothing can describe this wonder....

Waheguru...waheguru...waheguru...waheguru...

There is silence...yet there is no silence within...

Note...i am NOT saying i have experienced Waheguru...i am just skimming the surface...long way to go...5 thieves to overcome! :) mind is still far to corrupt!

 

Harry Haller

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Harry ji, seriously...what are you on about here? you replied the above to my reference of using the power of attention to seek God within....
I put my hands up, I just don't get it, I do not feel Sikhism is about exploring deep levels, gates, eyes, etc. These are all, as I have said many, many, many times Vedic philosophies that belong in Hinduism.

Dont you not think you need the power of attention to focus on a hard days work?
No, I do not, you need effort, although it depends on what sort of work you do, but a hard day is tiring, straining, you just need to keep going even when you want to sleep. For a farmer doing his work, most of his work is just to keep going, rather than drawing up a business plan and meeting clients.

to live a good honest life?
err thats discipline and understanding

to save a person in a house on Fire, when the building around you is falling down
no, that one is courage

to Run a 100m Sprint at the Olympics
uhm that one is physical fitness

I cannot see where the power of attention is relevant in these scenarios

Attention is used in everything you do, if your attention levels are low, you get easily distracted and are more likely to fail a task.
I fail on that one, I am just not very attentive,

that same power of attention is used when we go within to hear the Shabad within.
ok, this is the shabad within that no one can describe

if my attention is always on Sex, Money, unfulfilled desires, egotistical ventures...greed, anger...then how on this beautiful earth can i hear the shabad within that Guru Ji is telling us to attach our minds to?
maybe you could spend more time understanding sex, money, unfulfilled desires etc so that they do not clutter up your head, develop wisdom, tact, discretion, understanding, maturity, so that these things are gone forever,

You are comparing 'Experiencing the Truth of creation, the TRUTH of all existance, the TRUTH of experiencing the formless Waheguru to Masturbation?
actually yes I am, I think they have similarities, anyone would think you guys were one trick ponies, all you talk about is this connection, this wonderful feeling, the bliss, the height of happiness, methods of doing it, times that you do it so that you can be alone, different ways of achieving the goal, if I was being particularly scathing, I could say you are no different from an adolescent 15 year old,

what you call the truth of experiencing the formless Waheguru, I could call an addictive pleasure that has been explained as divine, sorry, I do not buy into this.As disgruntled as you may be at my comparison, is as disgruntled I feel that mental gymnastics have been turned into an ability to gain wisdom and enlightenment.

I do not do what i do to feel Good...i do not do this for selfish reasons...if you have not deduced that yet from all of our interactions on this forum, then there is no point in any further interaction.
I have not deduced this, kindly tell me why you do it then, please...

so please stop with this "you are doing this for selfish reasons..or you are doing this to feel good for yourself" i do this to experience the TRUTH...and so far the elements of Truth i've encountered are pretty damn mesmerizing
mesmerizing....hmmmmm

ok mesmerizing to what end? can you please tell me how it feels to experience the truth? is it say pleasurable? is it nice? does it feel good? is it the same feeling that say Akashaji gets when she is having an out of body experience? some have described these feelings as orgasmic, hence the masturbation analogy, can you comment on that?

pay attention to what i am saying (just a bit of humour, before Tejwant ji accuses me of something)
I am glad we can debate without it getting silly, a bit of humour is a good thing

Deep within the self is the secret, but the fool looks for it outside.
allow me to explain what this means to me, within the self is the truth, the truth being the answers in how to behave, to interact, to live, the key is then to live this, to embrace it in your daily life and then simply live it, listen that voice and act on it.

What you however are talking about is more deep meditation as a means of escape from daily life,
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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I have already replied to the above with my own understanding of the verses above...which is based on my own experiences through my Simran...this may be incorrect to the academic, but for me it is perfect for where i currently reside on my journey to Waheguru
but the academic is the Sikh, the way without nostril breathing and rituals, the pragmatic, the true, the doers
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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I put my hands up, I just don't get it, I do not feel Sikhism is about exploring deep levels, gates, eyes, etc. These are all, as I have said many, many, many times Vedic philosophies that belong in Hinduism.



No, I do not, you need effort, although it depends on what sort of work you do, but a hard day is tiring, straining, you just need to keep going even when you want to sleep. For a farmer doing his work, most of his work is just to keep going, rather than drawing up a business plan and meeting clients.



err thats discipline and understanding



no, that one is courage



uhm that one is physical fitness

I cannot see where the power of attention is relevant in these scenarios



I fail on that one, I am just not very attentive,



ok, this is the shabad within that no one can describe



maybe you could spend more time understanding sex, money, unfulfilled desires etc so that they do not clutter up your head, develop wisdom, tact, discretion, understanding, maturity, so that these things are gone forever,



actually yes I am, I think they have similarities, anyone would think you guys were one trick ponies, all you talk about is this connection, this wonderful feeling, the bliss, the height of happiness, methods of doing it, times that you do it so that you can be alone, different ways of achieving the goal, if I was being particularly scathing, I could say you are no different from an adolescent 15 year old,

what you call the truth of experiencing the formless Waheguru, I could call an addictive pleasure that has been explained as divine, sorry, I do not buy into this.As disgruntled as you may be at my comparison, is as disgruntled I feel that mental gymnastics have been turned into an ability to gain wisdom and enlightenment.



I have not deduced this, kindly tell me why you do it then, please...



mesmerizing....hmmmmm

ok mesmerizing to what end? can you please tell me how it feels to experience the truth? is it say pleasurable? is it nice? does it feel good? is it the same feeling that say Akashaji gets when she is having an out of body experience? some have described these feelings as orgasmic, hence the masturbation analogy, can you comment on that?



I am glad we can debate without it getting silly, a bit of humour is a good thing



allow me to explain what this means to me, within the self is the truth, the truth being the answers in how to behave, to interact, to live, the key is then to live this, to embrace it in your daily life and then simply live it, listen that voice and act on it.

What you however are talking about is more deep meditation as a means of escape from daily life,
God Bless Ji :)
 

Sherdil

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Jan 20, 2014
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Casually looking over the comments, I think some of us rely too much on semantics. A Muslim, Christian or Jew should be able to derive the same message even if they are not familiar with the terminology. If we continue to define this terminology based off of the Hindu denominations from which they derive, then we will continue to rely on their scriptures to understand our faith.

For me personally, closing off the 9 gates of the body means going beyond your 5 senses to paint your reality. God realization or Truth realization occurs when you go beyond the senses (sight, touch, taste, smell, hearing) and use the intellect to discern the objective truth of your existence.

This shabadh was posted earlier. It appears on page 656 of GGS.

ਸੰਤਹੁ ਮਨ ਪਵਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਬਨਿਆ
संतहु मन पवनै सुखु बनिआ ॥
Sanṯahu man pavnai sukẖ bani▫ā.
O Saints, my windy mind has now become peaceful and still.

ਕਿਛੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਗਨਿਆ ਰਹਾਉ
किछु जोगु परापति गनिआ ॥ रहाउ ॥
Kicẖẖ jog parāpaṯ gani▫ā. Rahā▫o.
It seems that I have learned something of the science of Yoga. ||Pause||

ਗੁਰਿ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ਮੋਰੀ
गुरि दिखलाई मोरी ॥
Gur ḏikẖlā▫ī morī.
The Guru has shown me the hole,

ਜਿਤੁ ਮਿਰਗ ਪੜਤ ਹੈ ਚੋਰੀ
जितु मिरग पड़त है चोरी ॥
Jiṯ mirag paṛaṯ hai cẖorī.
through which the deer carefully enters.

ਮੂੰਦਿ ਲੀਏ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ
मूंदि लीए दरवाजे ॥
Mūnḏ lī▫e ḏarvāje.
I have now closed off the doors,

ਬਾਜੀਅਲੇ ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਜੇ ॥੧॥
बाजीअले अनहद बाजे ॥१॥
Bājī▫ale anhaḏ bāje. ||1||
and the unstruck celestial sound current resounds. ||1||

ਕੁੰਭ ਕਮਲੁ ਜਲਿ ਭਰਿਆ
कु्मभ कमलु जलि भरिआ ॥
Kumbẖ kamal jal bẖari▫ā.
The pitcher of my heart-lotus is filled with water;

ਜਲੁ ਮੇਟਿਆ ਊਭਾ ਕਰਿਆ
जलु मेटिआ ऊभा करिआ ॥
Jal meti▫ā ūbẖā kari▫ā.
I have spilled out the water, and set it upright.

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ
कहु कबीर जन जानिआ ॥
Kaho Kabīr jan jāni▫ā.
Says Kabeer, the Lord's humble servant, this I know.

ਜਉ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਤਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੨॥੧੦॥
जउ जानिआ तउ मनु मानिआ ॥२॥१०॥
Ja▫o jāni▫ā ṯa▫o man māni▫ā. ||2||10||
Now that I know this, my mind is pleased and appeased. ||2||10||
When I read this, I personally derive a tongue in cheek reference in the second line. Kabir ji was not a yogi, yet he achieved what the yogis strove for. He stilled his windy mind.

The Guru has shown him the hole, alluding to the tenth gate. Not sure if Kabir ji is calling himself the guru, or alluding to God, i.e. with God's grace he has come to this realization.

The deer carefully steps through the hole. I assume the deer is another animal reference alluding to the mind.

He closed off the doors and the unstruck sound current resounds. He has learned to go beyond the senses to discern the truth about his existence.

He has spilled out the pitcher of the heart lotus. I think this is alluding to the droplets of water (soul/consciousness) being confined by the pitcher of the body. By spilling the pitcher, the droplets are re-united with the ocean (universal consciousness).

Now that he knows this (realized God/Truth) his mind is appeased.
 

chazSingh

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Feb 20, 2012
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The Guru has shown him the hole, alluding to the tenth gate. Not sure if Kabir ji is calling himself the guru, or alluding to God, i.e. with God's grace he has come to this realization.
From your study, what do you think the tenth gate is?

also you wrote " If we continue to define this terminology based off of the Hindu denominations from which they derive, then we will continue to rely on their scriptures to understand our faith"

Can you give some examples of terminology that Guru Ji used that is based off of the hindu denominations? concerning this subject or even on Guru Ji's instruction to seek God within you..

I have only ever read SGGS Ji, and all my research, observation and experience has only ever resulted from me following it's guidance...so it would be good to know what you think Guru ji has copied in terms of terminology, and maybe why you think Guru Ji in all his wisdom couldn't describe things without using that same terminology?

Thanks Ji
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Tejwant ji, i litter my responses with smily faces, because i am writing with some humor...these are just words on a screen...very difficult to ascertain what the writer is feeling when writing :) :)

'I hope this is not the result of your meditation' .... one thing you should know...i take to Simran, and take to being a Sikh because i KNOW that i am strung by the hair by the 5 thieves...

your questions:

1. If you consider yourself a parrot. No ... i look a little like this smiley face :)



Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response. It is not about the Smiley faces, it is the type of language you have used in your posts. Your ire is quite apparent.Please spend sometimes to re read them. That may help. I urge you to have civil interaction. As mentioned before, lets disagree in an agreeable manner.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/42541-what-is-anhaad-naad-8.html#post199432

then came your remarks...
This the reason, one will never see a Sikh beggar
you really ought to travel a little more. I cannot believe i just read this...

then you said

rather than becoming drug addicted parrots for transitory highs that are ought to dissipate quickly like any drug

Wow you really must be 'All Knowing' to make such a comment.

you have NO WAY of knowing what we experience.
My answer:http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/42541-what-is-anhaad-naad-8.html#post199435. This you can read yourself by clicking on the post.

Here you go again with your ire perhaps in your meditative trance:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/42541-what-is-anhaad-naad-8.html#post199437

how can you with any certainty know what me or anyone else experience in whatever state we are in during when we pour our hearts out during Mediation? and then make the comparison to what a drug user experiences? No smiley here either. :)
Please re read if you have already my comments to Lucky Singh ji in this post: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/199452-post86.html

I never implied that. I used a comparison that transitory highs are like drug addicts' highs those who parrot some mantar repeatedly and mechanically. I never accused anyone of being a parrot here nor did I imply that towards anyone. Guru Nanak was also against any mechanical rituals as mentioned in my other post here. Gurbani talks about how parroting is futile in many verses. As I said many times and it needs repeating here that personal experiences are personal ones only. Period.

Now, if anyone in this forum considers him/herself a parrot then we can talk further about it. So, please re- read my posts again rather than trying to imply something that was never mentioned by me nor intended.


http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/42541-what-is-anhaad-naad-9.html#post199445
My response to Akasha ji gives you the reasons not to flaunt your ire nor to accuse others without reading the thread, not reading and as a result you take them ad hominem. I would suggest you take the posts and what they say but as Verbatim which may help you in the understanding of the subject being discussed.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/42541-what-is-anhaad-naad-11.html#post199465

Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I did not want to do this but as you insist, I will try my best.

But before I dare to endeavour in this, please tell me do you admit that you are a parrot of Gurbani which means are you into mechanical meaningless rituals?

If you consider, you are not a parrot of Gurbani, then there is no discussion to be held because I was talking about the parrots of Gurbani who parrot senselessly for hours and feel a transitory high like a drug addict would feel, which happens especially when one is in a Vaheguru chanting group, the way I was.

Chaz Singh ji, You will notice from the above, I never accused you nor anyone else being a parrot. You took that upon yourself and read/understood something that was never said but rather to the contrary. You see how you assume things?

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/42541-what-is-anhaad-naad-14.html#post199667

Here is one more gem from you. You seem not to think when you talk like this.

Sometimes i wonder why you take time to respond with such remarks.
..

This kind of infantile comment is not expected from a Simran loving Meditating Sikh as you claim to be. But this is the way you seem to be and we are all products of our environment. Simran and meditating are yours and your posts show how you lead your life as you project yourself in this forum.

The most important part is, you did not even understand nor did you grasp, or tried to dig deeper into what I was talking about the 9 doors which if you had read it in my later post to Lucky Singh ji, perhaps you would have understood what I meant. But if you still have any doubts, ask me rather than assuming.

God gave you the power of 'ATTENTION', the most powerful thing...its so amazing..
You mean you can control your tears, your sniffling when you have the flu, you do not have to empty your bladder when you have to pee or control yourself when the nature calls so you do not have to go?

Is this the power of 'ATTENTION' you are talking about?

Are you serious? This nonsense is what the Brahmins and the Derawalas teach. I have no idea nor do I have the curiosity to find out which league you belong to.

Are your 9 doors that Ik Ong Kaar gave all of us and left them open locked with padlocks and keys by you because of the 'Power of ATTENTION' that you claim to have?

Without understanding the context, you carry on with your babble laced with ire.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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Sat Sri Akaal,
Who is Sat Guru
Sat TRUTH or Pure or Non Dual

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