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What Does Sikhi Teach About Attitudes Towards Infidels?

aristotle

SPNer
in·fi·del
n.
1. Offensive An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.
2. One who has no religious beliefs.
3. One who doubts or rejects a particular doctrine, system, or principle.

[Middle English infidele, from Old French, from Latin nfidlis, disloyal : in-, not; see in-1 + fidlis, faithful (from fids, faith; see bheidh- in Indo-European roots).]
The Abrahamic notion of infidelity is relative, a Christian is an infidel in eyes of a Muslim, Christians consider Hindus infidels and so on.....(I may be wrong, I don't vouch for this).

When it comes to the attitude of Sikhs towards Non-Sikhs, what better example can I give of Guru Nanak Sahib having a (so-called) lowly Muslim Mardana as his mate during his Udasees, Gurus having Non-Sikh balladeers Natha & Abdullah in their courts, and Guru Granth Sahib having the bani of people from many faith and spiritual traditions. I mean what scope does it leave for any explanations?
 

Ishna

Enthusiast
Writer
SPNer
Although Sikhi doesn't have anything to say about infidels (non-Sikhs) it does talk about slanderers and faithless cynics. I don't know if that's suitably related?
 

aristotle

SPNer
Although Sikhi doesn't have anything to say about infidels (non-Sikhs) it does talk about slanderers and faithless cynics. I don't know if that's suitably related?
This is a very appropriate query Ishna Ji, this is a question that frequently comes to my mind.

I'll try to share as much I feel I'm confident with.

* What I feel is, wherever the adjectives of Manmukh(ਮਨਮੁਖ), Duhaagan(ਡੁਹਾਗਣ), Saakat(ਸਾਕਤ) have been used in the Gurbani they are shown in direct contrast to the Gurmat principles, in other words, they are used as a method of poetic contrast. Most of such Shabads end with the exaltation of Naam, Truthfulness and Gurmat, and that is pricesly what is meant by the use of these examples/words.

* Then there are portions of the bani where Gurbani authors use the negative and lowly epithets for themselves too.
For example,

-In the Jap Ji Sahib Pauris with the refrain of ਅਸੰਖ which describe the many facets of the Creator's nature, Guru Nanak Sahib ends the Pauris with
ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਵਣ ਕਹਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
What power have I to describe Thine doctrines (Thee)?

ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥
I cannot even once be a sacrifice unto Thee.

ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ ॥
Whatever pleases Thee, is a good pursuit.

ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੧੭॥
Thou art ever safe and sound, O Formless One!

(Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, Page 3)
But in the Pauri which talks of thieves, ignorants and wrongdoers, Guru Sahib calls himself Nanak the lowly

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਕਹੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
Nanak, the lowly, gives description.

ਵਾਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ ॥
I cannot even once be a sacrifice unto Thee.

ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ ॥
What ever pleases Thee, that is a good pursuit.

ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੧੮॥
Thou art ever safe and sound, O Formless One!

(Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, Page 4)
Read this tuk by Bhagat Ravidas,
ਮੇਰੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਕਮੀਨੀ ਪਾਂਤਿ ਕਮੀਨੀ ਓਛਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥
My social status is low, my ancestry is low, and my life is wretched.

ਤੁਮ ਸਰਨਾਗਤਿ ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਚੰਦ ਕਹਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਚਮਾਰਾ ॥੫॥੬॥ I have come to Your Sanctuary, O Luminous Lord, my King; so says Ravi Daas, the shoemaker. ||5||6||

(Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, Page 659)
Gurbani is composed entirely in poetry, and uses multiple figures of speech, so like any other form of poetry, the spirit of Gurbani too can only be understood only if the Shabad/Bani/Pauri is read in its entirety.

As far as I have experienced the Guru Granth Sahib and Sikhi principles, Sikhs are not encouraged or called to look down upon other faith traditions or 'non-believers', instead Sikhism advocates a free discourse. The heterogeneity of Gurbani authors is a shining example of that.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
SAKAT sang na keejeyeah..DONT have Company with the SAKATS..thsoe who dont beleive in Him...the Creator. This is the Gurmatt position vis a vis those who deny the Creator. There are no infidels in Gurmatt...
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master

SPNer
You seem to be struggling, allow me to make it simple

you cannot ask what Sikh attitudes to infidels are, without first defining infidels, so, if we define infidels as those that do not believe in god, which god?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God



although as you stated we cannot define god, we do however have attributes even in Sikhism, as stated in Mool Mantra, I think what you are trying to refer to is knowing god, rather than describing god
 

badshah

SPNer
You seem to be struggling, allow me to make it simple

you cannot ask what Sikh attitudes to infidels are, without first defining infidels, so, if we define infidels as those that do not believe in god, which god?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God



although as you stated we cannot define god, we do however have attributes even in Sikhism, as stated in Mool Mantra, I think what you are trying to refer to is knowing god, rather than describing god
When I say God, I mean God of all gods, the God that made all of the other gods........

I did not know that there is more than one God, please explain, thanks

There is only one God, Hindus call him Bagwaan, Westerners call him God, Sikhs call him Waheguru, Muslims call him Allah

Same thing

B
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master

SPNer
There is only one God, Hindus call him Bagwaan, Westerners call him God, Sikhs call him Waheguru, Muslims call him Allah

Same thing
In Christianity, god is in human form and you spend eternity by his side, he is also a he, in Sikhism god is formless and in exists in everything everywhere

same thing?

In Sikhism therefore there cannot be any infidels as everyone has god in then whether they like it or not, it is not a choice, you do not ask jesus to come into your life whilst on your knees, you just need to open up a frequency, vibrate at that frequency and bingo, we assist anyone infidel or not.

However there is a difference between a non believer, and one who connects with the dark side, the side of the self, the worship of the self, one who makes the self the master has made a choice, such is a dangerous being, as nothing stops in the way of desire, be it for money, power or beautiful women
 

badshah

SPNer
In Christianity, god is in human form and you spend eternity by his side, he is also a he, in Sikhism god is formless and in exists in everything everywhere

same thing?

In Sikhism therefore there cannot be any infidels as everyone has god in then whether they like it or not, it is not a choice, you do not ask jesus to come into your life whilst on your knees, you just need to open up a frequency, vibrate at that frequency and bingo, we assist anyone infidel or not.

However there is a difference between a non believer, and one who connects with the dark side, the side of the self, the worship of the self, one who makes the self the master has made a choice, such is a dangerous being, as nothing stops in the way of desire, be it for money, power or beautiful women
If in Christianity god is in human form, what does he look like?
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Have you got a portrait of him?

What colour eyes does he have?

Is he a black man?
Badshah ji you yourself a creator's child as far as Sikhism is concerned!

Who is your daddy or mother or creator? Define yourself and if you cannot then try scratching the head (sorry I am assuming as not everything in creation has head) and try to find answers within! Share some of the answers you are getting from within and we may have some questions to pose. Forum is not a one way street. The traffic flows both ways and many directions including asking and answering.

Badshah ji, what color are you? Black, brown, pink, red or yellow. Remember colors are a relative concept for humans as part of creation. To a dog you may look like many shades of gray and to a snake a fuzzy warm color indifferent animal!

Any thoughts!

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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