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Islam What Do You Think Of Islam?

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Islam What Do You Think Of Islam?

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,179
auzer ji

There is a certain off the cuff quality to your answer to my questions. I took the time to ask them because they are contrasts in reality ... the reality of what the average person is puzzled by and is trying to figure out.

To say that some bad thing x is being forced on Muslims by some oppressive entity y (e.g., the US subjugated women and slaves) does not answer my questions. Even if I stipulate all of that, for the sake of argument, you are directing attention away from Islam, and use generalities and cliches.

The thread is about Islam per your own stated design. So let's talk about Islam as it evolves, if, when, and where it evolves, instead of saying stuff evolves and shifting "blame." Also! Don't take me for a westerner ridden by liberal guilt or by conservative phobias. When I look at Nigeria I am dismayed. When I look at paranoia about Islam in the US I am dismayed. I am an equal opportunity questioner who is not thrown off by either the blame game or the "why do they hate us?" game. I have to conclude that I am probably more able to ask relevant questions than you are able or willing to provide relevant answers.

I remember once responding to a lengthy email from another Muslim member of SPN, one who is a professor in Iran, holds a doctorate, and for all his education, needed me to remind him that the Arab world was the historic bridge between eastern civilization and what is now considered to be "western civilization." Until the Renaissance the writings by the Greek and Hellenistic philosophers that became the guiding values of western political and ethical thought were preserved, translated, analyzed and commented upon by Arab scholars. The "west" could not have done it without you! So the tunnel vision of spokesmen for Islam on the Internet never ceases to amaze me. Whatever the west has become it owes in part to Islam and its scholars.

Please get your required rest. If I know you are rested I will be less inclined as admin ask other forum members to turn down the heat.
 
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Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,029
7,158
Henderson, NV.
Also guys, though I like answering your questions, I would also really love to hear more of what YOU think of Islam. It can be negative or positive, no problem. But please go and read the opening post of this thread and respond to it as well, if you can.

Thanks and cheers...

:happymunda:
Auzer,

Guru Fateh.

We can only express what we think about Islam when you respond to our questions in an honest manner regarding it or shall we judge it by the suicide bombers who kill other Muslims in the name of Allah?

Please share with us how many Muslims have been killed by the Muslims in Iraq this month and why? It is an easy question to answer.

I hope you also respond to my previous posts. Otherwise, it would show your lack of honesty about your own faith. Is that its foundation stone?

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
auzer ji

There is a certain off the cuff quality to your answer to my questions. I took the time to ask them because they are contrasts in reality ... the reality of what the average person is puzzled by and is trying to figure out.

To say that some bad thing x is being perpetrated or was perpetrated by some oppressive entity y (e.g., the US subjugated women and slaves) does nothing to address my questions nor the opening statement you made. Even if I stipulate all of that, for the sake of argument, you have not gone beyond directing attention away from Islam, and used generalities and cliches.

The thread is about Islam per your own stated design. So let's talk about Islam as it evolves, if, when, and where it evolves, instead of saying stuff evolves and shifting "blame." Also! Don't take me for a westerner ridden by liberal guilt or by conservative phobias. When I look at Nigeria I am dismayed. When I look at paranoia about Islam in the US I am dismayed. I am an equal opportunity questioner who is not thrown off by either the blame game or the "why do they hate us?" game. I have to conclude that I am probably more able to ask relevant questions than you are able or willing to provide relevant answers.

I remember once responding to a lengthy email from another Muslim member of SPN, one who is a professor in Iran, holds a doctorate, and for all his education, needed me to remind him that the Arab world was the historic bridge between eastern civilization and what is now considered to be "western civilization." Until the Renaissance the writings by the Greek and Hellenistic philosophers that became the guiding values of western political and ethical thought were preserved, translated, analyzed and commented upon by Arab scholars. The "west" could not have done it without you! So the tunnel vision of spokesmen for Islam on the Internet never ceases to amaze me. Whatever the west has become it owes in part to Islam and its scholars.

Please get your required rest. If I know you are rested I will be less inclined as admin ask other forum members to turn down the heat.
Well, I'm rested now..Thanks.

So can you clarify in specific words that what in my answers you found dishonest or ill[prepared stuff? Also, I know that West owes alot to Islam but how it this relevant to this thread? I'm failing to see the connection.
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
Auzer,

Guru Fateh.

We can only express what we think about Islam when you respond to our questions in an honest manner regarding it or shall we judge it by the suicide bombers who kill other Muslims in the name of Allah?
Well I fail to see how am I not answer to people's questions honestly? Point out my dishonesty so things can be clarified.

Please share with us how many Muslims have been killed by the Muslims in Iraq this month and why? It is an easy question to answer.
I don't have the exact stats but probably the number is in hundreds..or probably over 1000+..not sure about exact figure.

And why? Well, there is a civil war going on in Iraq..power struggles between authorities and insurgents...

I hope you also respond to my previous posts. Otherwise, it would show your lack of honesty about your own faith. Is that its foundation stone?
How come my not responding to some of your faith shows my dishonesty regarding my faith?

Frankly speaking, I didn't open this thread by saying "Ask questions about Islam from me"..but by asking your views of Islam.

Also, I have tens of questions of different posters in my plate to answer and I'm trying to answer them (and then their counter-questions too--Even though this wasn't a question-answer thread to begin with)...

:rolleyes:
 

arshdeep88

SPNer
Mar 14, 2013
312
642
30
thanks for replying auzer ji and thanks sahini ji for beautifully explained answers from gurbani :)

Auzer Ji
have somehow true Sacrifice missed its meaning auzer ji on the occasion of EID?

As far as i have read prophet abraham was willing to sacrifice his most beloved son for the sake of almighty which was all in all his test as mentioned in various sources but how nowday's goats are related to most beloved possession to be offered to god to show a sign of submission ?
The very tag of being the last messenger of god somewhat doen't goes well because many people coming afterwards the prophet mohmmad who had preached god in their own way had to face the wrath of many islamic scholars and people

what about taxes to be paid by non muslims residing in a muslim territory?
what if muslim wants to convert his faith to sikhi or any other religion?
and about marriage thing which you said that now days muslims do are marrying non muslims
true to some extent but only for males
very very very few muslim girls marrying guys of other faiths according to their wishes
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,029
7,158
Henderson, NV.
Auzer,

Well you got it what you wished for. You did not read my post, it seems.:)

Here it is again for you to understand it better.

Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh
Auzer,

Guru Fateh.

We can only express what we think about Islam when you respond to our questions in an honest manner regarding it or shall we judge it by the suicide bombers who kill other Muslims in the name of Allah?
You want to know my opinion about Islam but you do not want to read my questions addressed to you so I can form an opinion. How interesting!

My question:
Please share with us how many Muslims have been killed by the Muslims in Iraq this month and why? It is an easy question to answer.
Your timid response:

I don't have the exact stats but probably the number is in hundreds..or probably over 1000+..not sure about exact figure.

And why? Well, there is a civil war going on in Iraq..power struggles between authorities and insurgents...
Who are the authorities and who are the insurgents? Doesn't Islam teach not to kill an innocent person? Aren't they all Muslims killing each other?

Or are the murders between The Sunnis and Shias in the name of Allah? You must know the answer.

Are you Sunni or Shia?

Why did the Sunnis destroy the most religious Shia mosque in Iraq?

Islam wants to have a dialogue with the outside world but the fact of the matter is they are killing their own in their Muslim countries. You can not blame any k-a-f-i-r or that and you know it.

This is what I am talking about honesty. Skipping the truthful responses is not being honest.

Hope to have the responses about Islam from you so I can form an opinion to share with you?

Isn't this the idea behind the thread you started?

So, let's do it in the name of Allah.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
Can you please give me some verses from Quran to justify your answer or any other references? Or is it just your opinion?
Its not my opinion but classical Islamic View. If someone preaches that is in line with Prophet's message, then those teachings are of no problem and we can learn from them..but if someone preaches things not in line with Prophet's message, then we are suppose to stay away from such teachings and people.



How is Sikhi message similar to Islam? Give concrete examples please.
Care for the poor, monotheism, equality of all human beings...etc


1.Who gave Islam the authority to be the last word on seeking God?
Secular point of view : No one.

Islamic Point of View : God himself.

I won't use the world 'authority'. Islam is just the completion of God's message to humanity that was first given by God to Abharam.

What you need to understand is that Islam talks about things in Abrahamic context...
2.Where is the freedom for anyone to seek God they want to in their own ways?
If they are genuinely not convinced by Islam, they are free to see God from whatever ways they want...or not to seek him at all..but as long as they live a good, moral life..there is reward for them in after-life (Classical Islamic Theology regarding people who still haven't seen the message of Islam)...
3 .Isn't that imposition on the whole world who worships differently than Islam? Don't they become kafirs and need to be killed by any means?
No.....

4.On what Islamic principles is the rift between the Sunnis and Shias?
Rift b/w Shias and Sunnis isn't religious but political in nature. Shia Sunni rivalry arose on the matter of who will lead the Islamic Ummah after the death of Prophet (SAW)...Now there are some differences among Shia and Sunni practice of Islam..but these differences aren't doctrinal...but originally, the rift wasn't on religion but on legitimate succession of power..


1.What is wrong with Polytheisim?
There is only one supreme God. Making partners with that god is wrong..Also, worshipping created objects is wrong..only God alone deserves humans' worship..no one other than HIM.

Are one billion Hindus wrong and Kafirs so need to be killed if they do not convert to Islam.
What? lol, why would they need to be killed? Converted? Forcefully? No. Yes, Islam will encourage Muslims to share Islamic message with these people and debate with them with reason and convert them..but not with force, but with wisdom.

As Qur'an states "call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation" (Chapter 16, verse 125).


2.Who are Aga Khanis in the Shia sect? They worship/revere Aga Khan and all Aga Khans are world known womanisers and adulterers who married many non Muslim women and had kids with them.Rita Hayworth, was not a Muslim which is one example out of many.
Don't know much about them. Probably they are not considered the part of mainstream Islam. People worshiping anyone other than Allah are not Muslims.... This is clear Islamic take on this issue..
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
Auzer,



Who are the authorities and who are the insurgents? Doesn't Islam teach not to kill an innocent person? Aren't they all Muslims killing each other?
Yes Islam does teach not to kill eachother..and yes they are Muslims killing eachother..but whats the point?

deleted. not about Islam.

deleted. not about Islam.

Doesn't Islam teaches against rape? Yes it does.

Do some Muslims still commit it? Yes, they do.

deleted. not about Islam.

deleted. not about Islam.


and so on..

So I don't know what point are you trying to prove here? How is situation in Iraq linked with Islam? Civil wars are human phenomenon that happen in every culture...
Or are the murders between The Sunnis and Shias in the name of Allah? You must know the answer.
No they aren't. Many Shia and Sunni groups are fighting within themselves too. Also, it is not in cause of Allah but a pure political power struggle b/w Shias and Sunnis of Iraq...

Are you Sunni or Shia?
Sunni..
Why did the Sunnis destroy the most religious Shia mosque in Iraq?
Don't know of this...nor do I endorse this behavior.

Whoever did this is a criminal as simple as that.

Qur'an specifically condemns such people..

Google "Khawarijites" and what Qur'an say about them...

Islam wants to have a dialogue with the outside world but the fact of the matter is they are killing their own in their Muslim countries.
deleted. not about Islam

deleted. not about Islam

deleted. not about Islam


Muslims of Iraq killing other Muslims etc.

Violence is just normal human trait..it will always be there..what is your point?

Civil war in Iraq is the not the fault of Islam..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,179
Auzer ji

My Point? You started a thread to answer questions about Islam. So what's with the critique of Sikhism, et al. ?

Now here is something to reflect on. When someone asks you why one group of Muslims acts aggressively against another group of Muslims, the answer is not ... "Christians murder other Christians." The only reason to answer that way comes by presuming that the questioner was not serious. If this thread morphs to members goading with insincere questions, it certainly did not start out that way. The questions asked were and are about areas where SPN members believed you had something meaningful to say, something instructive. You have taken the defensive. Are you ready to step up to the plate? If you did not really want to discuss Islam, was the thread a ploy?

Deletions down to only the content related to Islam.
 
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spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,179
Also guys, though I like answering your questions, I would also really love to hear more of what YOU think of Islam. It can be negative or positive, no problem. But please go and read the opening post of this thread and respond to it as well, if you can.

Thanks and cheers...

:happymunda:
auzer ji

When you answer questions they are truly superficial answers. Under most circumstances a person would welcome questions. Forum members leap to the opportunity to learn. They want information and they want to understand what is behind difficult issues. So they ask rather than spout off baseless opinions.
 
Nov 14, 2008
283
414
I find that in most great religions, the mystical break-aways tend to get closer to the sacred Truth. There is a mystical component to Christianity which strikes me as closer to the Truth; in Judaism we find Kabbalah, in Islam we find Sufi, in Hinduism there are Bhakti traditions etc. To my knowledge, Sikhism may be the only of the great faiths where the faith itself is mystical, and there is no need for a mystical break-away. The thrust of the faith is direct experience and communion with the Holy, here and now, without much ritual and promises of a heavenly afterlife.

very well said Onam ji ,frubals to you !! it may be because unlike SGGS ,Quran ,Bible ..are written later after death of prophets ?



Aslaam Auzer ji ,how you justify beating wife as written in Sura Alnisa 3:34 ?

khuda hafiz 0:)
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
I'm just curious on knowing why is so much importance attached to Abraham then, that even some verses of Holy Qur'an are in 'Abrahamic style'?
Why not Moses, Adam or David?
Well, he is considered as the father of all humanity..probably thats why.

Abraham was a God fearing man and was the first one to bring God's message to Earth...now every religion (Abrahamic tradition) tries to claim that they have the 'correct' Abrahamic message that God first gave to mankind...
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
very well said Onam ji ,frubals to you !! it may be because unlike Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ,Quran ,Bible ..are written later after death of prophets ?
Qur'an was written and completed within Prophet's lifetime. Prophet dictated Qur'an himself. It was only "compiled" or say "standardized" in after his death. Qur'an doesn't have any sequence. The present sequence of Qur'an (standarization process) happened after Prophet's death..but Qur'an was written/completed within Prophet's lifetime.


Aslaam Auzer ji ,how you justify beating wife as written in Sura Alnisa 3:34 ?
Its a symbolic beating..a last resort or signal before divorce.

Hitting your wife with a thin branch of tree size that of toothbrush isn't "wife beating" at all :D It is just symbolic...

The above commentary is given on this verse by Prophet Muhammad himself. Hence its absolutely unquestionable that the verse refers to only symbolic beating--which prophet described as hitting your wife with a thin branch of tree size that of toothbrush. Also, you can't hit on your wife's face or hit hard enough that it leaves any marks etc.
 

Auzer

SPNer
Feb 19, 2012
111
125
Auzer ji

My Point? You started a thread to answer questions about Islam. So what's with the critique of Sikhism, et al. ?
What? o_O Where did I do 'critque of Sikhism' at all?

I think that Sikhs are probably very defensive when it comes to talking to Muslims. They think that Muslims only talk about religion with them to somehow "convert" them, or try to convert them, to Islam.

Thats what I noticed on other forums..sadly, I think the case is same even here...b/c as far as I remember, I didn't do any critique of Sikhism but when someone is very defensive about something, they see things from different angle I guess.
Now here is something to reflect on. When someone asks you why one group of Muslims acts aggressively against another group of Muslims, the answer is not ... "Christians murder other Christians."
I didn't say that. I talked about why Sudanese might be practicing some strict version of Sharia. I gave example of Christians of subsaharan africa doing same with biblical law. The point was that your current situation, geography etc impacts on how you view religion. People stuck in poverty, civil war, and after-effects of colonization will take religion in a more extreme way. Thats why I think that Sudanese practice some strict form of Sharia.

Deletions down to only the content related to Islam.
I wasn't talking about other religion but just trying to make a point.

Don't be so sensitive. Being ultra-sensitive kills the chances of open discussion. If I bashed any religion..delete my posts..but if I'm trying to make a point by telling how different people of different religions practice their faith differently..and that by same token, Muslims and Islam are no different..then I think there is no harm in letting my post stay..

Anyways.....
 

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