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What Are The Duties Of The Head Of The Family?

Tejwant Singh

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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
रागु गूजरी महला ५ ॥
Rāg gūjrī mėhlā 5.
Raag Goojaree, Fifth Mehl:
ਕਾਹੇ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਉਦਮੁ ਜਾ ਆਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਪਰਿਆ
काहे रे मन चितवहि उदमु जा आहरि हरि जीउ परिआ ॥
Kāhe re man cẖiṯvahi uḏam jā āhar har jī▫o pari▫ā.
Why, O mind, do you plot and plan, when the Dear Lord Himself provides for your care?
ਸੈਲ ਪਥਰ ਮਹਿ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਾਏ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰਿ ਧਰਿਆ ॥੧॥
सैल पथर महि जंत उपाए ता का रिजकु आगै करि धरिआ ॥१॥
Sail pathar mėh janṯ upā▫e ṯā kā rijak āgai kar ḏẖari▫ā. ||1||
From rocks and stones He created living beings; He places their nourishment before them. ||1||
ਮੇਰੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਜੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੁ ਤਰਿਆ
मेरे माधउ जी सतसंगति मिले सु तरिआ ॥
Mere māḏẖa▫o jī saṯsangaṯ mile so ṯari▫ā.
O my Dear Lord of souls, one who joins the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, is saved.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੂਕੇ ਕਾਸਟ ਹਰਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
गुर परसादि परम पदु पाइआ सूके कासट हरिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gur parsāḏ param paḏ pā▫i▫ā sūke kāsat hari▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
By Guru's Grace, the supreme status is obtained, and the dry wood blossoms forth again in lush greenery. ||1||Pause||
ਜਨਨਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਲੋਕ ਸੁਤ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਕੋਇ ਕਿਸ ਕੀ ਧਰਿਆ
जननि पिता लोक सुत बनिता कोइ न किस की धरिआ ॥
Janan piṯā lok suṯ baniṯā ko▫e na kis kī ḏẖari▫ā.
Mothers, fathers, friends, children and spouses-no one is the support of anyone else.
ਸਿਰਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਸੰਬਾਹੇ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਕਾਹੇ ਮਨ ਭਉ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੨॥
सिरि सिरि रिजकु स्मबाहे ठाकुरु काहे मन भउ करिआ ॥२॥
Sir sir rijak sambāhe ṯẖākur kāhe man bẖa▫o kari▫ā. ||2||
For each and every person, our Lord and Master provides sustenance. Why are you so afraid, O mind? ||2||
ਊਡੇ ਊਡਿ ਆਵੈ ਸੈ ਕੋਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਪਾਛੈ ਬਚਰੇ ਛਰਿਆ
ऊडे ऊडि आवै सै कोसा तिसु पाछै बचरे छरिआ ॥
Ūde ūd āvai sai kosā ṯis pācẖẖai bacẖre cẖẖari▫ā.
The flamingoes fly hundreds of miles, leaving their young ones behind.
ਤਿਨ ਕਵਣੁ ਖਲਾਵੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਚੁਗਾਵੈ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਿਆ ॥੩॥
तिन कवणु खलावै कवणु चुगावै मन महि सिमरनु करिआ ॥३॥
Ŧin kavaṇ kẖalāvai kavaṇ cẖugāvai man mėh simran kari▫ā. ||3||
Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind? ||3||
ਸਭਿ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਦਸ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਾਨ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਰ ਤਲ ਧਰਿਆ
सभि निधान दस असट सिधान ठाकुर कर तल धरिआ ॥
Sabẖ niḏẖān ḏas asat sidẖān ṯẖākur kar ṯal ḏẖari▫ā.
All the nine treasures, and the eighteen supernatural powers are held by our Lord and Master in the Palm of His Hand.
ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਸਦ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਪਾਰਾਵਰਿਆ ॥੪॥੫॥
जन नानक बलि बलि सद बलि जाईऐ तेरा अंतु न पारावरिआ ॥४॥५॥
Jan Nānak bal bal saḏ bal jā▫ī▫ai ṯerā anṯ na parāvari▫ā. ||4||5||
Servant Guru Nanak is devoted, dedicated, forever a sacrifice to You, Lord. Your Expanse has no limit, no boundary. ||4||5||

Ang 10

Veer Ji ,The pause comes before so ,I would interpret this exactly as it reads (it does not seem to be a metaphor.)I believe there is purity and truth in each word,I cannot give more importance to one line than another,I cannot advise him as I'm still wet behind the ears myself.
Scarlet ji,

Guru Fateh.

One more request.

Please make a separate response in another post. Your response above in bold to my post has been added by you in your original post afterwards rather than making a separate one after my post to you. This makes things more confusing and meaningless as it defeats the purpose of interaction.

So, in other words, you have altered your original post for the reasons only known to you.

My question about RAHAO still stands. So I hope you will go through the whole Shabad and share with us your thoughts about it and if the main message jives with your one liner response taken from the above Shabad to Navjeet Singh ji's query.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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Veer Ji ,Sorry for the confusion,I edited my post after posting the shabad you requested,I did that first and tried to address the questions by editing underneath the shabad, I did it address it within 15 minutes,but you gave me 16 minutes after my posting of the Shabad before you reminded me, I was in the process of altering it when your reminder was posted. Perhaps Admin can check the timing.
I understand the importance of context notwithstandingI also know many tuk's explains themselves,all you need to do is read them , that is why our scripture is described as straightforward and not find some hidden meaning through a study of context on every occasion .

Many people repeat the Mool Mantra that is not a 'Full Shabad',many repeat Shalok from Sukhmani ,or other favourite Tuk's they have memorised , you and many Scholars' take a studious approach to faith,the young man does not need me to explain what the Guru meant.It is incumbent on each Sikh to try undertand it himself, a Scholar may choose to study that which is to be sung in seeking some knowledge but he loses understanding.

The vast majority of tuk's in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are self explanatory if you are implying the vast majority are not then that is your opinion.But that leaves the question why is Gurbani described as easy to understand?
(Self explanatory adj. Needing no explanation; obvious)

Some scholars seem to concentrate too much on the pause and pass over the Guru's words that came before and after as being less important ,maybe because as you put it 'the rahao has the real nectar'.Our first bani Japji Sahib has no rahao many others don't.If being a Scholar means you have some ability to know which is the most important line spoken by the Guru.

I understand the requirement under TOS but would challenge anyone to show that the context of the Shabad in this case alters the material meaning of the Tuk that was posted.
 
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Harry Haller

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spji

my own 2 pence is that its all in the context,

My own interpretation is that this shabad is about trusting in the Guru's voice in your head, rather than letting the 'magic of god' waft over you to make everything better
 

Admin

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Jun 1, 2004
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Veer Ji ,Sorry for the confusion,I edited my post after posting the shabad you requested,I did that first and tried to address the questions by editing underneath the shabad, I did it address it within 15 minutes,but you gave me 16 minutes after my posting of the Shabad before you reminded me, I was in the process of altering it when your reminder was posted. Perhaps Admin can check the timing.
I understand the importance of context notwithstandingI also know many tuk's explains themselves,all you need to do is read them , that is why our scripture is described as straightforward and not find some hidden meaning through a study of context on every occasion .

Many people repeat the Mool Mantra that is not a 'Full Shabad',many repeat Shalok from Sukhmani ,or other favourite Tuk's they have memorised , you and many Scholars' take a studious approach to faith,the young man does not need me to explain what the Guru meant.It is incumbent on each Sikh to try undertand it himself, a Scholar may choose to study that which is to be sung in seeking some knowledge but he loses understanding.

The vast majority of tuk's in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are self explanatory if you are implying the vast majority are not then that is your opinion.But that leaves the question why is Gurbani described as easy to understand?
Many scholars seem to concentrate too much on the pause and pass over the Guru's words that came before and after as being less important ,maybe because as you put it 'the rahao has the real nectar'.Our first bani Japji Sahib has no rahao many others don't.If being a Scholar means you have some ability to know which is the most important line spoken by the Guru, then thank God I'm no scholar.

(Self explanatory adj. Needing no explanation; obvious)
SP ji

It is a strict requirement at SPN to post full shabads or atleast Ang/Page Nos. in SGGS, from where the interested readers can study the full shabads to derive the actual meaning. Taking a line/tukk out-of-context, majority of times leads to mis-leading interpretations, which we have to avoid at the cost of a little hard-work.

Thank you so much for your understanding in this matter.

Gurfateh!
 

findingmyway

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Veer Ji ,Sorry for the confusion,I edited my post after posting the shabad you requested,I did that first and tried to address the questions by editing underneath the shabad, I did it address it within 15 minutes,but you gave me 16 minutes after my posting of the Shabad before you reminded me, I was in the process of altering it when your reminder was posted. Perhaps Admin can check the timing.
I understand the importance of context notwithstandingI also know many tuk's explains themselves,all you need to do is read them , that is why our scripture is described as straightforward and not find some hidden meaning through a study of context on every occasion .

Many people repeat the Mool Mantra that is not a 'Full Shabad',many repeat Shalok from Sukhmani ,or other favourite Tuk's they have memorised , you and many Scholars' take a studious approach to faith,the young man does not need me to explain what the Guru meant.It is incumbent on each Sikh to try undertand it himself, a Scholar may choose to study that which is to be sung in seeking some knowledge but he loses understanding.

The vast majority of tuk's in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are self explanatory if you are implying the vast majority are not then that is your opinion.But that leaves the question why is Gurbani described as easy to understand?
(Self explanatory adj. Needing no explanation; obvious)

Some scholars seem to concentrate too much on the pause and pass over the Guru's words that came before and after as being less important ,maybe because as you put it 'the rahao has the real nectar'.Our first bani Japji Sahib has no rahao many others don't.If being a Scholar means you have some ability to know which is the most important line spoken by the Guru.

I understand the requirement under TOS but would challenge anyone to show that the context of the Shabad in this case alters the material meaning of the Tuk that was posted.
You will find an example of how the rahao line changes when in context here http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/32638-use-metaphor-gurbani-how-use-when.html

Rahao means pause so it is the most important part of the message of that shabad and that is why Guru ji asks us to reflect on it. The rest of the shabad is not less important but illustrates the point of the rahao line. There are many shabads that are misleading when read as single tuks rather than as a whole shabad as the format for many shabads is to take a concept and describe it, then to change the meaning or give a new angle then to expand on this and describe the end point. Therefore, if you take only the 1st lines you will miss the point and mistakenly think Gurbani is validating something when it is actually doing the opposite. This has been discussed and demonstrated elsewhere but I can't find the threads right now. It is not about a Sikh vs a scholar but about trying to understand the poetry of Guru ji's message. That is why SPN requires shabads to be posted in full. There are some passages that do not have a rahao line but they must still be quoted in full as they still follow a pattern-a progression of thought.
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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Findingmyway said:
Rahao means pause so it is the most important part of the message
Findingmyway ji That is utter nonsense that you have picked up from others ,if you had to choose the most important, it would be the last line, I prefer not to pick and choose,secondly how do you account for the mixed Shaloks at the end of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,we shall lock horns on the thread you linked?
 

Tejwant Singh

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Findingmyway ji That is utter nonsense that you have picked up from others ,if you had to choose the most important, it would be the last line, I prefer not to pick and choose,secondly how do you account for the mixed Shaloks at the end of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,we shall lock horns on the thread you linked?
Scarlet Pimpernel ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Findingmyway ji That is utter nonsense that you have picked up from others
What is utter nonsense and who else are you accusing of that? Please name others. This forum is for interaction and learning about Sikhi. If you do not know what Rahao means, then you may ask others for help. There is no one who is a scholar here. We are all in the same boat.

The way I see Rahao, it is like the nectar of a flower- in this case the Shabad-and the rest of the verses are its petals. Hence, it has the central idea of the whole Shabad. Understanding what Rahao means is utterly important in all Shabads where it is mentioned.

secondly how do you account for the mixed Shaloks at the end of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
As requested before, please give the page number so we can understand what Saloks you are talking about and discuss it further.

Let's learn from each other rather than challenging people to lock horns with. This forum is not meant for that.

Tejwant Singh
 
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Scarlet Pimpernel

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Tejwant Singh said:
What is utter nonsense and who else are you accusing of that? Please name others.
Veer Ji I'm not attacking anyone personally ,I'm challenging the original posit that yourself and Findingmyway ji propounded ,namely that the pause is more important(She did it on other thread).
To me the pause is simply part of the meter. (Way ji will understand the horns part)
 

Tejwant Singh

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Veer Ji I'm not attacking anyone personally ,I'm challenging the original posit that yourself and Findingmyway ji propounded ,namely that the pause is more important(She did it on other thread).
To me the pause is simply part of the meter. (Way ji will understand the horns part)
Scarlet ji,

Guru Fateh.

That is utter nonsense that you have picked up from others
If you are not attacking anyone then your use of language above shows otherwise and it is quite inappropriate in any kind of interaction where you accuse others of something that is untrue.

To me the pause is simply part of the meter.
What is a meter? Can you please elaborate what part of the meter Rahao is and its significance in it?

Why is Rahao used as part of the meter in some Shabads and not in others? We know that Gurbani is all written in raags.

Lastly, please respond to the following as asked in my previous post.

secondly how do you account for the mixed Shaloks at the end of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
Thanks

Tejwant Singh
 

Harry Haller

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Findingmyway ji That is utter nonsense that you have picked up from others ,if you had to choose the most important, it would be the last line, I prefer not to pick and choose,secondly how do you account for the mixed Shaloks at the end of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,we shall lock horns on the thread you linked?
Spji

As stated earlier, I know little about the subject in question, but I come here so that I may learn, I learn through the measured debate of members, look at the different views, and end up agreeing, or disagreeing, or forming my own view point based on the different views, that is what I come here for, that is what interests me, I am dismayed by the current pack mentality which I find most non sikh.
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

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I am dismayed by the current pack mentality which I find most non sikh.
Veer Ji I'm no wolf so how can I have pack mentality,I'm also no sheep and so I must challenge our thinking as a group,when I feel it is right to do so,I'm not challenging any individual and in anycase I'm no match for Findingmywayji,as for attacking Tejwant Singh ji ,that is equivalent to an ant attacking an elephant,pretty suicidal.
Back to the topic of the thread, I really feel that the head of a family should create feet,what I mean to say is teach us to stand by ourselves.My father gave me one sentence advise when I started delivering sofa's,it was 'take the arms in first',with that alone I delivered almost a thousand.Navjeet ji must stand on his feet like his own father did,and perhaps his father had to do it early too.
 
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Mai Harinder Kaur

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As I see it, the Head of the Family has the primary duty of looking out for the welfare of the family.

What that would entail depends on the family. I grew up in a very large joint family with my seven older brothers and their families wandering in and out of our lives. Obviously, being the head of such a family is very different from being head of a small nuclear family.

The most important thing, whatever the size and type of family, is to treat everyone with love and respect and always keep in mind what is best for the family. BTW, the only reason a woman can't be Head of the Family is that "it isn't done." In my book, that's no reason, at all. The mother, if her temperament allows, can be a fabulous leader, just as the father can be a complete failure, if his temperament doesn't allow.

Following old traditions because "we've always done it that way" is pointless and counterproductive, at best. Please take a look at the power point presentation to see what I mean.

http://www.funonthenet.in/articles/Paradigm-Presentation.html

Of course, we all pray for your father's complete recovery. Please stay in touch and let us know how he's doing.
 

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