☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
The Gurus Were Not "chosen"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Truthsikher31" data-source="post: 216565" data-attributes="member: 21973"><p>So that's how you're correcting yourself, you were referring Kings and Donkeys in a "spiritual" sense. Why is it so hard to talk in a literal sense. Regardless, you refer to the Gurus as King-like, worthy of the crown. But you say that now, because it's been done. They are part of history, been selected and did their deeds. So now, after you've learned who the Gurus were, what they did, how they suffered, and so forth, you just accept that each were worthy. But just for a second put yourself back in the 1500s. Say you were a loyal servant to the Sikhi faith. You served not just the Guru but the people with out any ego. And say some thought you were worthy of next in line, but you werent of blood. And so, you get overlooked and a 5 yr old is chosen to be next in line. Do you think that is right. </p><p></p><p>In today's time, would you let a 5 yrs or teen, lead the Sikh people. Oh but wait, it was different back then. That was a more spiritual time. The 1500s were time before people actually had common sense, before most could think for themselves. It was a "special time" right. Humans been around for so long prior to 1500, yet it was only during that period, God intervened with a small family in India, and told them how to be Gurus, how to lead people. Whats so different about now vs 500 yrs ago. Was magic and spiritual powers a real thing. But got lost when the Guru's left this world? Or were people just naive and believed what they couldnt understand.</p><p></p><p>Who is worthy to be King-like and not, could you decide that. According to yourself and others like you, you'll argue that the Guru's were worthy enough to select their successor. But thats all good now because its been done. But who says they were right, you? Others who share your feelings? Why? Why do you believe they were right. Because you were born into a Sikh family? Some convert to Sikhism, so why do they believe the Gurus. What was wrong about the religion they were born into. Do they believe the Gurus because their teachings comfortably fit in, with what they believe in. </p><p></p><p>Let me ask this, and its not just for you. Guru Hargobind, does not choose his own son (Guru Tegh Bahadur age 23 at the time) but instead chooses his grandson (Guru Har Rai age 14). Because he felt Tegh Bahadur wasnt ready to lead. Then Har Rai chooses his 5 yr old son, and before he passes away, chooses Tegh Bahadur. Was Guru Tegh Bahadur really ready or was it that there were no other living male blood relatives still alive? Guru Har Krishan's grandfather Baba Gurditta passed away before his birth, as did his other Great-uncles Baba Atal and Baba Ani Rai. </p><p></p><p>Atal dies at the age of 9 (obviously no kids)</p><p>Baba Ani - could not find much info</p><p>Guru Harkrishan's brother - was disowned by their father</p><p>Guru Tegh Bahadur only had one child, but was born after Harkrishan passed away.</p><p></p><p>So being that at the age of 8, with only 1 living male family member, was the decision for Guru Tegh Bahadur because "God" chose him, or that Harkrishan saw Tegh Bahadur "worthy"? His own father didnt think Tegh Bahadur could lead. Why now. Or was it just simply they needed to keep the Guruship within the Bloodline no matter what.</p><p></p><p>Even with facts like this, you're argument might still be "so what". Gurus were good, they taught nice things, all's good. Here's my issue. I don't think they were special. Each one had their own legacy, with each being remembered for something they did or introduced. But why didnt each's predecessor come up with the same thoughts/concepts. For example, Guru Gobind comes up with the Khalsa, the 5ks. Why didnt any of the previous 9 Gurus think of it? They are God-send after all. They're very spiritual, worthy, and all knowing. My point is, I believe anyone could have done similar to what they accomplished and never know might have done it better. But we'll never know that because the people weren't viewed as equals, not deemed worthy right? They were considered "donkeys". Your words not mine. </p><p></p><p>And if you look closer to the dates (the births and deaths), you might see what I've been trying to point out. That the bloodline seemed more important than actually choosing a proper "chosen one"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Truthsikher31, post: 216565, member: 21973"] So that's how you're correcting yourself, you were referring Kings and Donkeys in a "spiritual" sense. Why is it so hard to talk in a literal sense. Regardless, you refer to the Gurus as King-like, worthy of the crown. But you say that now, because it's been done. They are part of history, been selected and did their deeds. So now, after you've learned who the Gurus were, what they did, how they suffered, and so forth, you just accept that each were worthy. But just for a second put yourself back in the 1500s. Say you were a loyal servant to the Sikhi faith. You served not just the Guru but the people with out any ego. And say some thought you were worthy of next in line, but you werent of blood. And so, you get overlooked and a 5 yr old is chosen to be next in line. Do you think that is right. In today's time, would you let a 5 yrs or teen, lead the Sikh people. Oh but wait, it was different back then. That was a more spiritual time. The 1500s were time before people actually had common sense, before most could think for themselves. It was a "special time" right. Humans been around for so long prior to 1500, yet it was only during that period, God intervened with a small family in India, and told them how to be Gurus, how to lead people. Whats so different about now vs 500 yrs ago. Was magic and spiritual powers a real thing. But got lost when the Guru's left this world? Or were people just naive and believed what they couldnt understand. Who is worthy to be King-like and not, could you decide that. According to yourself and others like you, you'll argue that the Guru's were worthy enough to select their successor. But thats all good now because its been done. But who says they were right, you? Others who share your feelings? Why? Why do you believe they were right. Because you were born into a Sikh family? Some convert to Sikhism, so why do they believe the Gurus. What was wrong about the religion they were born into. Do they believe the Gurus because their teachings comfortably fit in, with what they believe in. Let me ask this, and its not just for you. Guru Hargobind, does not choose his own son (Guru Tegh Bahadur age 23 at the time) but instead chooses his grandson (Guru Har Rai age 14). Because he felt Tegh Bahadur wasnt ready to lead. Then Har Rai chooses his 5 yr old son, and before he passes away, chooses Tegh Bahadur. Was Guru Tegh Bahadur really ready or was it that there were no other living male blood relatives still alive? Guru Har Krishan's grandfather Baba Gurditta passed away before his birth, as did his other Great-uncles Baba Atal and Baba Ani Rai. Atal dies at the age of 9 (obviously no kids) Baba Ani - could not find much info Guru Harkrishan's brother - was disowned by their father Guru Tegh Bahadur only had one child, but was born after Harkrishan passed away. So being that at the age of 8, with only 1 living male family member, was the decision for Guru Tegh Bahadur because "God" chose him, or that Harkrishan saw Tegh Bahadur "worthy"? His own father didnt think Tegh Bahadur could lead. Why now. Or was it just simply they needed to keep the Guruship within the Bloodline no matter what. Even with facts like this, you're argument might still be "so what". Gurus were good, they taught nice things, all's good. Here's my issue. I don't think they were special. Each one had their own legacy, with each being remembered for something they did or introduced. But why didnt each's predecessor come up with the same thoughts/concepts. For example, Guru Gobind comes up with the Khalsa, the 5ks. Why didnt any of the previous 9 Gurus think of it? They are God-send after all. They're very spiritual, worthy, and all knowing. My point is, I believe anyone could have done similar to what they accomplished and never know might have done it better. But we'll never know that because the people weren't viewed as equals, not deemed worthy right? They were considered "donkeys". Your words not mine. And if you look closer to the dates (the births and deaths), you might see what I've been trying to point out. That the bloodline seemed more important than actually choosing a proper "chosen one" [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
The Gurus Were Not "chosen"
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top