Leisure Temporary Pasture

Scarlet Pimpernel · Oct 15, 2011

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[/FONT]Those who are committed to the Naam,[/FONT] see the world as merely a temporary pasture.[/FONT] [/FONT]

[/FONT]kwm k®oD PUtY ibKu mwtu ]
[/FONT]Sexual desire and anger are broken, like a jar of poison[/FONT]. [/FONT]

[/FONT]ibnu vKr sUno Gru hwtu ] [/FONT]
Without the merchandise of the Name, the house of the body and the store of the mind are empty.[/FONT]gur imil Koly
bjr kpwt ]4]
[/FONT]Meeting the Guru, the hard and heavy doors are opened. ||4|| [/FONT]
swDu imlY pUrb sMjog ]
One meets the Holy Saint only through perfect destiny[/FONT]. [/FONT]
sic rhsy pUry hir log ]
[/FONT]The Lord`s perfect people rejoice in the Truth.[/FONT]
mnu qnu dy lY shij suBwie ]
[/FONT]Surrendering their minds and bodies, they find the Lord with intuitive ease[/FONT]. [/FONT]

[/FONT]
nwnk iqn kY lwgau pwie ]5]6]
[/FONT]Guru Nanak falls at their feet. ||5||6||[/FONT] [/FONT]

[/FONT]We are in Leisure so this is a personal discussion and not Vichaar in the strictest sense of the word.The first line made me think about why it is that a temporal world would have laws which are deemed eternal and not temporal? [/FONT]

[/FONT]Especially since the time an individual lives is not very long compared to time itself. [/FONT]

[/FONT]Its like we pull into a rest area whilst on a million mile drive, and then we start to think about which is the best way to get from the parking to the exit and who is the best driver and who built the rest area.When I'm here for just a split second compared to that time before and after my birth. [/FONT]

[/FONT]One man exterminates millions whilst another spends his whole life in charitable deeds.[/FONT]
What does anything matter in this pasture halt.Does God even care about what is happening in the pasture halt or is he more concerned with us getting to the other field .[/FONT]
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Ambarsaria · Oct 15, 2011

Sinner veer great thread. I believe in ways we are like a "Mitti da Bawa" (a clay doll) that comes about from the dirt and goes back into dirt. We leave different imprints with timelines which may influence any or none over time. Here a non-religious video,

Subhash Sufi Singing Mitti Da Bawa captured by Varinder Loona.mp4 - YouTube

This just kind of shows of imprints left between humans and others as we come to exist, live and exit.

Sat Sri Akal.

Harry Haller · Oct 16, 2011

spji, the other field is death, unless you are suggesting everlasting life

Scarlet Pimpernel · Oct 16, 2011

Veer ji Thankyou my two Musketeers for entering the fray,I can rely on you always to be my 'first responders'.
This brief gap called life is a service/rest area on the eternal motorway/freeway.
Our exit from the break is called death ,the fields are our longlasting abode and I see them as our life real.

Harry Haller · Oct 16, 2011

SPJI,

I disagree brother, but that is not to say you are incorrect or wrong,. My own personal opinion is that this rest area is in fact everything, and after we leave this rest area, there is nothing. This rest area is all we have, all we will ever have. yes, depressing isnt it, I would sometimes love to believe that there is something better afterwards, but having said that, if I knew there was, I think it would influence my attitude to this rest area, and treat it just like a rest area, a brief blip in my complete life, it would become a lucid dream, and I would chase death.

Scarlet Pimpernel · Oct 16, 2011

Veer ji I can count on you even if it is only to disagree,life is so short, look at time the time passed before our birth,or the time elapsed since the pharoahs where did all those billions of Souls go,and more importantly where are those few excellent Souls like Mati daas who gave up this so called life up for their faith,did they not recieve any recognition other than our respect.
Did you and I start to exist around the 1970's and where were the Guru's before their respective births,how could these giants of our faith not even exist in 1400?

Ambarsaria · Oct 16, 2011

Scarlet Pimpernel said:
Veer ji I can count on you even if it is only to disagree,life is so short, look at time the time passed before our birth,or the time elapsed since the pharoahs,did we really only start to exist around the 1970's or was that just when we took our bodily form.

HH and SP ji, I believe the answer to continuation is in the following,

The Selfish Gene

From my own thoughts perspective I would add to it the virtual life we live after death in the imprint we leave in others lives, etc. We are also impacted by similar imprints of others who were before us. Our Guru ji and Sri Guru Granth Sahib being in our face examples of this for Sikhs.
These are the only parts that connects past, present and the future peacesign
Sat Sri Akal.

Scarlet Pimpernel · Oct 16, 2011

Ambarsaria ji said:
The Selfish Gene

Veer Ji I believe many great saints like Baba Budda did not marry,so where is the gene continuation for those most worthy individuals,I agree they left an imprint for others but I also believe they cannot 'die'and they are not just history.
Time for a visual
NEVER CRACK JOKES ON SARDARS or Sikhism - YouTube

Ambarsaria · Oct 16, 2011

Scarlet Pimpernel said:
Veer Ji I believe many great saints like Baba Budda did not marry,so where is the gene continuation for those most worthy individuals,I agree they left an imprint for others but I also believe they cannot 'die'and they are not just history.
Time for a visual
NEVER CRACK JOKES ON SARDARS or Sikhism - YouTube

SP ji which one would you pick if you have a choice to see yourself continue,

A physical replica
A spiritual replica

I will always pick spiritual replica for myself as I rather be 6 ft 2 in, much lighter in skin, with blori eyes (white people eyes) and a chorra (wide face) and chorri shati (wide chest), and some other parts built like lolbut perhaps not good to talk about those lol!

So Baba Budda ji is more than alive, we just need to define what life is!

By the way neither is re-incarnation or trans-migration of souls lollol.

Sat Sri Akal.

Scarlet Pimpernel · Oct 16, 2011

Ambarsaria said:
SP ji which one would you pick if you have a choice to see yourself continue,

A physical replica

A spiritual replica

<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
गउड़ी महला १ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 1.
Gauree, First Mehl:

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਜਾਤੋ ਜਾਇ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਆਵੈ ॥
जातो जाइ कहा ते आवै ॥
Jāṯo jā▫e kahā ṯe āvai.
How can we know where we came from?

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਕਹ ਉਪਜੈ ਕਹ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥
कह उपजै कह जाइ समावै ॥
Kah upjai kah jā▫e samāvai.
Where did we originate, and where will we go and merge?

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਕਿਉ ਬਾਧਿਓ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਕਤੀ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
किउ बाधिओ किउ मुकती पावै ॥
Ki▫o bāḏẖi▫o ki▫o mukṯī pāvai.
How are we bound, and how do we obtain liberation?

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਕਿਉ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
किउ अबिनासी सहजि समावै ॥१॥
Ki▫o abẖināsī sahj samāvai. ||1||
How do we merge with intuitive ease into the Eternal, Imperishable Lord? ||1||

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥
नामु रिदै अम्रितु मुखि नामु ॥
Nām riḏai amriṯ mukẖ nām.
With the Naam in the heart and the Ambrosial Naam on our lips,

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਨਰਹਰ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਰਹਰ ਨਿਹਕਾਮੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
नरहर नामु नरहर निहकामु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Narhar nām narhar nihkām. ||1|| rahā▫o.
through the Name of the Lord, we rise above desire, like the Lord. ||1||Pause||

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਜਾਇ ॥
सहजे आवै सहजे जाइ ॥
Sėhje āvai sėhje jā▫e.
With intuitive ease we come, and with intuitive ease we depart.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਮਨ ਤੇ ਉਪਜੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
मन ते उपजै मन माहि समाइ ॥
Man ṯe upjai man māhi samā▫e.
From the mind we originate, and into the mind we are absorbed.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੁਕਤੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥
गुरमुखि मुकतो बंधु न पाइ ॥
Gurmukẖ mukṯo banḏẖ na pā▫e.
As Gurmukh, we are liberated, and are not bound.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਛੁਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇ ॥੨॥
सबदु बीचारि छुटै हरि नाइ ॥२॥
Sabaḏ bīcẖār cẖẖutai har nā▫e. ||2||
Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, we are emancipated through the Name of the Lord. ||2||

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਤਰਵਰ ਪੰਖੀ ਬਹੁ ਨਿਸਿ ਬਾਸੁ ॥
तरवर पंखी बहु निसि बासु ॥
Ŧarvar pankẖī baho nis bās.
At night, lots of birds settle on the tree.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸੁਖ ਦੁਖੀਆ ਮਨਿ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ ॥
सुख दुखीआ मनि मोह विणासु ॥
Sukẖ ḏukẖī▫ā man moh viṇās.
Some are happy, and some are sad. Caught in the desires of the mind, they perish.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸਾਝ ਬਿਹਾਗ ਤਕਹਿ ਆਗਾਸੁ ॥
साझ बिहाग तकहि आगासु ॥
Sājẖ bihāg ṯakėh āgās.
And when the life-night comes to its end, then they look to the sky.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਧਾਵਹਿ ਕਰਮਿ ਲਿਖਿਆਸੁ ॥੩॥
दह दिसि धावहि करमि लिखिआसु ॥३॥
Ḏah ḏis ḏẖāvėh karam likẖi▫ās. ||3||
They fly away in all ten directions, according to their pre-ordained destiny. ||3||

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Ambarsaria · Oct 16, 2011

Sinner veer forget the kindle :sippingcoffeemunda: and see if you can sort out the following,
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Abbreviations:
· B(1) @ Birth 1
· D(1) @ Death 1
· L(1) @ Life 1
· K(1) @ Karma L(1)
·
Note: I will arbitrarily classify state (1) as related to present life. So negative numbers will be past and positive numbers >1 will be future.

Example 1: Linear continuity of single Karma flow
----------@ B(-1), D(-2), L(-1), K(-1) @B(0), D(-1), L(0), K(0) @B(1), D(0), L(1), K(1) @B(2), D(1), L(2), K(2) -------------@

Example 2: Progressive continuity of many Karma interactions and cross development

----------@ B(-1), D(-2), L(-1), K(w) @B(0), D(-1), L(0), K(x) @B(1), D(0), L(1), K(y) @B(2), D(1), L(2), K(z) -------------@

In Example 2, I can understand and see that K(w), K(x), K(y), K(z) as composite Karmas built from linear in Example 1 as well impacted by your life linkages blood/genetic (physical but possible mental phenomena as well) and virtual (social/cultural/etc., mostly mental but some physical phenomena as well).

I believe Sikhism not being anti-Science could reconcile with Example 2 versus Example 1.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I posted it way back and no body could make head or tails out of this.

Scarlet Pimpernel · Oct 16, 2011

Ambarsaria said:
Sinner veer forget the kindle

and see if you can sort out the following,

Veer ji theriya tuhee jaanai but I will try to think on it, but it looks like I need a code to decipher it. lol

(Sorry the highlight came through when I pasted it,I could not remove it,),And it's not cold here yet ,it was a beautiful day today ,so no brandy ,but 350 ml White English Wine was prescribed by the mind doctor this evening.

Seeker9 · Oct 16, 2011

PS: I posted it way back and no body could make head or tails out of this.

Dear Ambarsaria Ji

I commend you on your innovation but will confess I don't think I have grasped the meaning of the equations

But I am intrigued!!

What does the "@" symbol in the equation signify?

Ishna · Oct 16, 2011

harry haller said:
This rest area is all we have, all we will ever have. yes, depressing isnt it, I would sometimes love to believe that there is something better afterwards, but having said that, if I knew there was, I think it would influence my attitude to this rest area, and treat it just like a rest area, a brief blip in my complete life, it would become a lucid dream, and I would chase death.

When you read Gurbani and hear the deep longing our Guru Sahibans and Bhagats had for our Beloved, and the songs of the pain of that separation, if they had believed that death would 'merge' them with the Beloved I imagine there would be more Gurbani to this effect and a history of suicide or more emphasis on death and dying and hurrying along this moment. If you ache to be with the one you love, you will do almost anything to get rid of the ache and obtain the object of your desire.

But Gurbani is incredibly life-affirming, and says a great deal more about this life right here right now than it does about the next one. What a nice change from other religious texts, and a very important point of difference.

However, most people automatically think about after-life, I think it is a psychological reaction to the fear of death and the ego's fear of the abyss. That's one of the reasons Sikhi is a difficult path to tread (sharper than a blade and finer than a hair) because it doesn't pander to the ego like a belief that one is born from a chosen people, or they are going to meet Jesus, or be ressurected in paradise after the day of judgement while those who wronged them burn in hell forever. Gurbani says it like it is.

This precious human life is our rare chance to meet the Beloved.

Ish

Ambarsaria · Oct 16, 2011

Seeker9 said:
Dear Ambarsaria Ji

I commend you on your innovation but will confess I don't think I have grasped the meaning of the equations

But I am intrigued!!

What does the "@" symbol in the equation signify?

Seekr9 ji let us alllow brother Sinner to read his book. I believe one day we will ask spnadmin ji if she would create a merged thread like"Continuation of Life: Past, Present and Future". I believe Sinner ji has great ideas already in this thread and will take charge.

In terms of the @ symbol, it signifies an instant where there is birth of something, death of something, and what transitions and what happens. So there are physical events of birth and death of a physical being. There are however the non-physical actions that impinge and continue after death and at birth one gets connected to others before and others now.

So whereas the physical one can trace way-way-back the non-physicals from many impinging one's and how one impinges many is there but highly time dependent and personal. These are memories, learning, the talk, the walk, the look, the smile, the manners, and so much more that makes us human beings.

This goes human-human and beyond, it becomes interacting creation and that is what one creator created. If you get a "WOW moment", then you understood my message brother.

Hope it is little clearer. If I can clarify further I will be happy to.

Sat Sri Akal.

findingmyway · Oct 16, 2011

Scarlet Pimpernel said:
 What does anything matter in this pasture halt.Does God even care about what is happening in the pasture halt or is he more concerned with us getting to the other field .[/FONT]

Why should God care? Why aren't you caring about your own life? Perhaps if you stayed away from the brandy and wine you might understand Guruji more

Harry Haller · Oct 17, 2011

Ambersariaji,

I think what you are proposing is that We live, we are influenced by our genes, by the people round us, by various stimulation, and then we die. On death, we live on, as a contribution to others, as others were to us on our birth, and that this is the cycle of birth and death, not a singular soul being born and dying, but many souls and information, and experiences, all intermingling and joining and dividing and creating new souls

We live on forever through this, but the magic formula that is 'us' dies at death, although elements of it live on to get merged another day

Scarlet Pimpernel · Oct 17, 2011

Why should God care? Why aren't you caring about your own life? Perhaps if you stayed away from the brandy and wine you might understand Guruji more

Findingmyway ji

I did say it was a service/rest area ,which means one can partake of refreshments,eat ones meals ,take a nap and use washroom amenties:sippingcoffeemunda:

Harry Haller · Oct 17, 2011

brother, sister, please let us not turn a wonderful thread that is developing wonderful thoughts on to another debate about alcohol, you are both right, and you are both wrong, but it is a debate that should be aired somewhere else, my opinion only

Ambarsaria · Oct 17, 2011

harry haller said:
Ambersariaji,

I think what you are proposing is that We live, we are influenced by our genes, by the people round us, by various stimulation, and then we die. On death, we live on, as a contribution to others, as others were to us on our birth, and that this is the cycle of birth and death, not a singular soul being born and dying, but many souls and information, and experiences, all intermingling and joining and dividing and creating new souls

We live on forever through this, but the magic formula that is 'us' dies at death, although elements of it live on to get merged another day

Harry Haller my brother ji, hitting the nail right on the head is what you did.

Not only after death what we do or what we are survived as; but before birth our parents, their parents, their parents, ....; their neighbors, their neighbors, ...; animals at their time, animals at their time, ...; the land at their time, the land at their time, ...; let us cut to the chase "the universe at their time, the universe at their time; etc.

Oh OK creation from time immemorial to time immemorial. Oh OK the creator from time immemorial to time immemorial.

That is consonance and creator, creation and us as part of it that I understand. That in part is the diagram representation that I perhaps did not craft so well.

Sat Sri Akal.

Leisure Temporary Pasture

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Harry Haller

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Harry Haller

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Seeker9

Cleverness is not wisdom

Ishna

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

findingmyway

Harry Haller

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Harry Haller

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

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