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Hard Talk Taking One Liners Out Of Context From Gurbani To Allow Intellectual Independence?

Harry Haller

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i think Original Ji, asked you a question..."who are the hindus"

maybe He can clarify,
but i would say Hindu's are human beings first and foremost...as are sikhs...as are budhists...as are any other named religion on this earth...
So being Human...we have one thing in Common....the Human body...
and every persons body has the gateway to Waheguru within them...regardless of what you believe in, or what you name yourself.

this is why Budhists recognized and came across energy centers that exist beyond just the physcial component in their body....
thats why Hindus came across the same and called them the chakras...
thats why in Gurbani, Guru ji has called them the seven seas ... and went beyond with the speaking of the tength gate, the anhad shabad...etc...why the ocean of the mind...mansarover was mentioned...which is wondrous in itself...wah...!

because even if you called yourself an athiets, those elements would still exist within you...
they existed when the first human being walked...and they shall forever exist...along with all other truths

all named religions came from becoming aware of truths...they all came from the truth...
from a Sikh perspective...Guru Nanak made sure the complete truth was available to us to explore and become aware of ourselves...within...He said we can do this NOW...and not wait until physical death.

so lets explore....and stop with this nonsense...
 

Harry Haller

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..yeah, there is evidence of the modern human to have walked around 200,000 years ago, but abstract thinking ? hmm ! that's not that old. Until recently, the accepted view has been that our ancestors underwent a "creative explosion" around 30,000 to 40,000 years ago, when we suddenly began to think abstractly.
Would you say the invention of the wheel was the result of abstract thinking?

Reincarnation is not an invention per se but rather, yes, as you've correctly observed, a conceptual tool which developed over time, just like chairs and a tables came out of the wood from the trees, so did the theory of reincarnation emerged from an ideological thought process of the ancient Sanskrit family. Nanak modified the theory of reincarnation to the point of "no return" and gave us an eternal life by exiting the wheel of the 84. I'm sure Chaz has the manual, if you're interested, ha ! As for gravity, its always been there. Sir Newton harnessed it if you like and modified it to pass it on to Einstein to give us the general theory of relativity.
A conceptual tool, nothing more, I would agree with that
.you're right, it cannot be owned, but ideologies develop within groups and the only known group that we can associate with is the Sanskrit family. That gives us our bearings and identity as a social group on the move. Truth is universal and everyone has an equal right to it, exactly what Nanak set out to show the Moslems and the Hindus.
Do we need a separate family to give us our own identity? Can we not find our own bearings?
.. the other way round perhaps ! Nanak and his renaissance was to that end coz humankind had forgotten the religion of truth - satnam. Evolution wanted Hinduism the "folk" saved from the clutches of Islam and be supplanted by a more modern religion, that is Sikhism. Look around you, Sikhism is the next best thing since sliced bread. Besides, evolution will advance the dominant ideology of a system that stacks-up on all fours, which Sikhism is. Do we need to be bitching about Hindu this, Vedic this and Abrahamic this, when we know that evolution will one day favour Gurmat stream, a current in which all competing currents will lose themselves and give up their own individual identity to become 1, meaning Ekonkar ? For that is the truth.
By that time the Gurmat stream will be lost in a wave of Vedic this and Abrahamic that, your thinking only serves to hasten this
 

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Would you say the invention of the wheel was the result of abstract thinking?
..million dollar question and an argument to be had for another day, but suffice to say, no it isn't abstract thinking that gave birth to the invention of the wheel. The idea wheel must've been preceded by the impression wheel, the root cause being external observation rather than conceptual thought process. That is to say, idea followed impression. In the natural world of objects there must have been impressions on the mind of something wannabe wheel to engage the mind laterally and not abstractly.
Do we need a separate family to give us our own identity
..no we don't need separate identity. Evolution see us as species in the battle for survival, and as you know, will favour the more "fitter" to go on to reproduce as pro-social group. The "idea" Sikh will go on to flourish as a pro-social mechanism form of natural selection favoured over competing ideologies. And, because of its inherent properties, such as compatibility and co-existence in a pluralistic social settings it will come to dominate [ideology].
Can we not find our own bearings?
..we already have. Our father, Guru Gobind gave us a form that is eternal. The word Kaur and Singh are eternal names. Just as the name "square" is eternal for having absolute definitional universal properties [equal sides, angles, etc], so do Kaur and Singh [platonic world of ideas and forms, philosophy]. You see, evolution competes, in some instances for perfection. Take the example of an "apple". The true nature of the tree on which it grows is not the bud, bloom or the flower, but the apple for therein lies its very purpose for taking birth in the first place as a tree. We as humans have gone through untold number of evolutionary experimentations of change to bring out the finest, that is, H SINGH [ideological perspective]. And, it is the NAME [nam] that is eternal all else falls wayside.
By that time the Gurmat stream will be lost in a wave of Vedic this and Abrahamic that, your thinking only serves to hasten this
Relax ! Have faith in yourself as a Sikh ! Our Baba Ji, single handed took on the mega forces that are till this day, predominantly present and scattered actively to compete, did that stop Sikh thought from flourishing ? What makes you think it will now, given that we've multiplied million fold since? Baba Nanak's thought process is the "truth" and can never be annihilated or diluted. Evolution is an emergent part of truth "satnam", which isn't a commodity that can be brought over the counter, or something that can be intangibly manipulated for selfish motives, but rather, is something that is inherently "true" of the "being" that evolution is part of, meaning, Waheguru.

Love u n leave you ! Have a good 1.
 
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Harry Haller

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..million dollar question and an argument to be had for another day, but suffice to say, no it isn't abstract thinking that gave birth to the invention of the wheel.
What a strange statement.. on the one hand you accept it is a valid point, valid enough to be argued, and yet on the other hand, you dismiss it with a straight 'no'.
..no we don't need separate identity. Evolution see us as species in the battle for survival, and as you know, will favour the more "fitter" to go on to reproduce as pro-social group. The "idea" Sikh will go on to flourish as a pro-social mechanism form of natural selection favoured over competing ideologies. And, because of its inherent properties, such as compatibility and co-existence in a pluralistic social settings it will come to dominate [ideology].
This is your answer to my question as to whether we need Hinduism to validate our identity, you start by stating we do not need a separate identity, and then waffling for a while, what I have noted though is that your waffles are fairly consistent, you could actually get away with using a standard waffle to probably answer any question, hey, lets try it,

Why do Sikhs wear the turban?

.no we don't need separate identity. Evolution see us as species in the battle for survival, and as you know, will favour the more "fitter" to go on to reproduce as pro-social group. The "idea" Sikh will go on to flourish as a pro-social mechanism form of natural selection favoured over competing ideologies. And, because of its inherent properties, such as compatibility and co-existence in a pluralistic social settings it will come to dominate [ideology].

Why is that badgers have black and white stripes?
.no we don't need separate identity. Evolution see us as species in the battle for survival, and as you know, will favour the more "fitter" to go on to reproduce as pro-social group. The "idea" Sikh will go on to flourish as a pro-social mechanism form of natural selection favoured over competing ideologies. And, because of its inherent properties, such as compatibility and co-existence in a pluralistic social settings it will come to dominate [ideology].

hey this is great, you have hit upon something quite spectacular here, an answer that works regardless of the question!

ok, lets try the next one, my question as to why you stated we need Sanskrit to find our bearings, I asked why?

we already have. Our father, Guru Gobind gave us a form that is eternal. The word Kaur and Singh are eternal names. Just as the name "square" is eternal for having absolute definitional universal properties [equal sides, angles, etc], so do Kaur and Singh [platonic world of ideas and forms, philosophy]. You see, evolution competes, in some instances for perfection. Take the example of an "apple". The true nature of the tree on which it grows is not the bud, bloom or the flower, but the apple for therein lies its very purpose for taking birth in the first place as a tree. We as humans have gone through untold number of evolutionary experimentations of change to bring out the finest, that is, H SINGH [ideological perspective]. And, it is the NAME [nam] that is eternal all else falls wayside.
are you just copying and pasting random copy from the internet? I note that in earlier post you mentioned a thesis you had written, this was also found to be littered all over the internet, the above answer does little to actually answer the question, and answering questions is ever so important you know.

I don't know of any other state to be honest, I don't do problems, its all just material for the next gag.

Have faith in yourself as a Sikh !
I do

Our Baba Ji, single handed took on the mega forces that are till this day, predominantly present and scattered actively to compete, did that stop Sikh thought from flourishing ?
depends on your point of view, from where I am sitting there is no Sikh thought, no Sikh philosophy, just a mish mash of Islam, Vedicism and Christianity.

What makes you think it will now, given that we've multiplied million fold since? Baba Nanak's thought process is the "truth" and can never be annihilated or diluted
I do not think we are living on the same planet, Sikhism has already been annihilated and diluted, we are India's idiots that get a good hiding every now and then. What's worse is that Sikhs will sell out their own quicker than anyone, its just an accepted Sikh trait, and one only needs to look at our history to see this. We are not united, we are fractured, we have no leadership, what we really need to do is to attract more Sikh thinking at grass roots level, trouble is, everyone is too busy making money and buying Audi's. Do you drive an Audi?

Evolution is an emergent part of truth "satnam", which isn't a commodity that can be brought over the counter, or something that can be intangibly manipulated for selfish motives, but rather, is something that is inherently "true" of the "being" that evolution is part of, meaning, Waheguru.
In that case Sikhism in its current guise seems devoid of Satnam
 

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Why do Sikhs wear the turban?
...here's a link for further research: Ezekiel 44:18:19. Caution must be had that Abraham was originally from the land of UR, I believe.
Why is that badgers have black and white stripes?
..pass !


ok, lets try the next one, my question as to why you stated we need Sanskrit to find our bearings, I asked why?
..lets keep it short n simple. Gurmukhi is derived from Sanskrit; had you been Gurmukhi literate you would've made the connection between the two. I mean it in a nice way, please not be offended.
are you just copying and pasting random copy from the internet?
..pardon me ? pls cite example or provide evidence !
I note that in earlier post you mentioned a thesis you had written, this was also found to be littered all over the internet
..remind me ? again, pls provide evidence and support with a short description.
the above answer does little to actually answer the question, and answering questions is ever so important you know.
..I'm sorry !
depends on your point of view, from where I am sitting there is no Sikh thought, no Sikh philosophy, just a mish mash of Islam, Vedicism and Christianity.
...I'd say self-alienation ! You're your own worse enemy in that regard, but otherwise, you're an asset to joe public. You keep them amused and much of what you write telly with their view n virtue. You are what you are.
I do not think we are living on the same planet, Sikhism has already been annihilated and diluted, we are India's idiots that get a good hiding every now and then. What's worse is that Sikhs will sell out their own quicker than anyone, its just an accepted Sikh trait, and one only needs to look at our history to see this. We are not united, we are fractured, we have no leadership, what we really need to do is to attract more Sikh thinking at grass roots level, trouble is, everyone is too busy making money and buying Audi's. Do you drive an Audi?
No H ! Its not about we, its about us as individuals. We need to ascend to a perfect state of being, that is what Sikhism is all about [spiritual Sikh]. It aren't about the jones next door [Hindu] nor the sopranos down town [Mos-Chris], its about the Harry Singh. This Harry Singh is great, good, intelligent and all the rest. This Harry Singh has a spiritual connection with the house of Nanak, it is this connection which needs honing and harnessing [HH], so that the loneliness becomes wholeness.

In that case Sikhism in its current guise seems devoid of Satnam
..never ! Take you for example, your possession is satnam, albeit, HH. It is our conscience H - that needs to be true to everything we do and conceive,
 

Harry Haller

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...here's a link for further research: Ezekiel 44:18:19. Caution must be had that Abraham was originally from the land of UR, I believe.
..pass !
err that was something different, its spontaneous, its called wit.
.lets keep it short n simple. Gurmukhi is derived from Sanskrit; had you been Gurmukhi literate you would've made the connection between the two. I mean it in a nice way, please not be offended.
very little that is open offends me, however, if being Gurmukhi illiterate means an inability to make that connection, I will stick with what I know, or not know, better to be your own fool, than rely on a translation of the wise.
..pardon me ? pls cite example or provide evidence !
again, this was a comment of humour, pointing at my inability to decipher your answers on occasion.

remind me ? again, pls provide evidence and support with a short description.
I will PM you, it is not relevant to this discussion.

..I'd say self-alienation ! You're your own worse enemy in that regard, but otherwise, you're an asset to joe public. You keep them amused and much of what you write telly with their view n virtue. You are what you are.

Oh I know what I am, self alienation keeps me that way.

No H ! Its not about we, its about us as individuals. We need to ascend to a perfect state of being, that is what Sikhism is all about [spiritual Sikh]. It aren't about the jones next door [Hindu] nor the sopranos down town [Mos-Chris], its about the Harry Singh. This Harry Singh is great, good, intelligent and all the rest. This Harry Singh has a spiritual connection with the house of Nanak, it is this connection which needs honing and harnessing [HH], so that the loneliness becomes wholeness.
Do you know of anyone that ascended to this perfect state of being? how many?

Sikhism is about being in consonance with ones surroundings, nothing more, nothing less, it can be found today, right now, this second. I am only lonely when I am in company, I am only whole when alone.
..never ! Take you for example, your possession is satnam, albeit, HH. It is our conscience H - that needs to be true to everything we do and conceive,
I think when one has reached consonance, and I do for short periods of time, there is no soul, no conscience, no atma, no guilt, no anger, just being completely in tune with everything.
 

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Sikhism is about being in consonance with ones surroundings,
..confirmed
nothing more, nothing less, it can be found today, right now, this second.
confirmed
I am only whole when alone.
..well done and welcome, never late than ever ! Being alone is a form of "meditation". There is you alone and whole, there is Chaz alone and whole, same thing at two different vantage points. You self-alienate, Chaz nam jap, hmm, different paths to 1 destination. Sir Harry Haller at consonance and Sir Chaz at Waheguru. Credit goes to Harkiran coz she has already explained the mechanics behind it all, that is, one observer in different roles. WOW - this is what we call moving forward !
I think when one has reached consonance, and I do for short periods of time, there is no soul, no conscience, no atma, no guilt, no anger, just being completely in tune with everything.
...what's it gonna be, Baba Ji or Guru Ji, as a title ? For you've reached the state of the "exalted " one 'me Lord.

Goodnight !
 

Harry Haller

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.well done and welcome, never late than ever !
I've known this for some time,
Being alone is a form of "meditation".
some might say it is the ultimate
There is you alone and whole, there is Chaz alone and whole, same thing at two different vantage points.
not quite, Chazji is looking for the light fantastic, I am not looking for anything, just the chance to be.
Credit goes to Harkiran coz she has already explained the mechanics behind it all, that is, one observer in different roles. WOW - this is what we call moving forward !
again, not quite, all roads do not lead to Rome in my view.
...what's it gonna be, Baba Ji or Guru Ji, as a title ? For you've reached the state of the "exalted " one 'me Lord.
I think Panga Masterji works well!
 

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not quite, Chazji
..H, one of the crucial question in moral philosophy [ethics] is, how does one live happily ? The answer in short, traditionally speaking was and pretty much still is, by cultivating virtue. Virtue in this sense meant excellence . For example, the virtue of a knife is its sharpness, by the same token, your is "respect". Look, proof's in the pudding, Chaz with a Ji. These are the hallmarks of a prudent Sikh; social traits if you like, that develop within family socialisation. That is what Sikhism is.

Take one of Guru Nanak's first sermon, ..."na koi hindu na koi musalman", meaning, in God's eyes there is neither Hindu nor Muslim. What does it mean ? Well clearly, Nanak's God isn't interested in religious labels, but rather, in the way we [Sikh] conduct ourselves and receive others [Hindus, Moslems, Christians]. And, that is the trait you've demonstrated of possessing when you addressed Chaz with Ji at the end, respect for others. It is this message that encapsulates Sikh belief and has far reaching conclusions.

Sikhism professes that no one religion has a monopoly of the truth that God is and that all religions should be respected.

The moral of it is, respect, of which you have by the abundance.

Goodnight n Godbless
 

Harry Haller

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.H, one of the crucial question in moral philosophy [ethics] is, how does one live happily ? The answer in short, traditionally speaking was and pretty much still is, by cultivating virtue.
I am not sure about this, I have spent the last 20 years being virtuous, and I have been as miserable as hell. How does one live happily? by being free and by being in consonance, being in consonance has elements of virtue, but it is the consonance itself that brings about happiness.

Virtue in this sense meant excellence .
There is nothing excellent about me, excellence is something I have done my best to avoid, the field is just too competitive, no, what I excel at is mediocrity, from my dress, my mannerisms, my attitude, mediocrity is something that oozes from my very pores in abundance.
For example, the virtue of a knife is its sharpness, by the same token, your is "respect"
Respect, its a funny one, its the reason every single relationship I have ever had has failed, to the point where I have now given up on having relationships anymore, I am just not very good at that game, my biggest problem is that I do court respect, to the point where I am not respected at all, this does not bother me, but it seems to bother others hugely, people feel that if they cannot respect you, it is open season to treat you without consideration, strange that, that the concept of respect ensures people treat each other properly, considerately, I do not respect anyone, how can I? I interact on a daily basis with false personalities and false facets, how can I respect something that is false? And how can others respect me when I go out of my way to deflect such, as I said, funny one respect.

Look, proof's in the pudding, Chaz with a Ji. These are the hallmarks of a prudent Sikh; social traits if you like, that develop within family socialisation. That is what Sikhism is.
Actually it is the format of this forum, there is nothing prudent about me, and my social skills are terrible. Sikhism, I would say is bigger than social games.
Take one of Guru Nanak's first sermon, ..."na koi hindu na koi musalman", meaning, in God's eyes there is neither Hindu nor Muslim. What does it mean ? Well clearly, Nanak's God isn't interested in religious labels, but rather, in the way we [Sikh] conduct ourselves and receive others [Hindus, Moslems, Christians]. And, that is the trait you've demonstrated of possessing when you addressed Chaz with Ji at the end, respect for others. It is this message that encapsulates Sikh belief and has far reaching conclusions.
Everyone should be free to have whatever belief, whatever religion, whatever way of life they choose, I have no interest in whatever fashion anyone else chooses to live, but to laud it as the only way, or to laud themselves as wise and enlightened, is just red rag to a bull, if you wish to put yourself on a pedestal as someone that knows the way, and someone that is here to guide others, then I am afraid people like me will surround you and laugh at you, is it right to laugh at someone whilst paying lip service?
The moral of it is, respect, of which you have by the abundance.
well thank you for your kind words, but, no, it is not respect that I have by the abundance, just the desire to see things as they are.
 

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I am sure I posted full shabads on this before and my full interpretation of them. My view of "reincarnation" as it were or "transmigration" falls in line with Gurbani saying that all is one (generally speaking). The idea of Nirgun / Sargun aspect of Waheguru. Form which emenates from formless. Consciousness being the base of existence and having a real intrinsic connection to matter. So to me, "we" really means Waheguru. And Waheguru has been the 'doer' behind everyone and everything since the inception of the Universe. So my understanding of what transmigration / reincarnation is, does not refer to "separate" souls as if we are all separate entities body jumping after death and starting a new separate life. Rather, the one who continues to exist in every human, is Waheguru. And the only experiencer / doer who has ever existed behind every entity that has ever breathed (and also every inanimate object, plant etc as well) is one and the same.... Ik Onkar, Waheguru, Akal Purakh.

I really don't want to get back into the same discussion again since I know several people on here will never leave the simple psychology explanation (states of mind) referring to this one physical life and having nothing to do with actual spirituality etc. Posting a shabad about reincarnation is only asking for an argument again and I'd rather not engage in arguments because I feel its not productive.

But here is one, not specifically reincarnation related but does explain that Waheguru IS every character in this reality and always was and always will be (our Ego identity, or experience of being a separate entity is only that we have forgotten who we really are... an actor playing this character). I know some will try to say that the characters are just states of mind... like if I am angry thats a character etc. But I can't see how that fits.

ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ
रागु सूही महला ५ घरु १
Rāg sūhī mėhlā 5 gẖar 1
Raag Soohee, Fifth Mehl, First House:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਬਾਜੀਗਰਿ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਾਜੀ ਪਾਈ
बाजीगरि जैसे बाजी पाई ॥
Bājīgar jaise bājī pā▫ī.
The director stages the play, (the director is Waheguru)

ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪ ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ
नाना रूप भेख दिखलाई ॥
Nānā rūp bẖekẖ ḏikẖlā▫ī.
playing the many characters in different costumes; (all of us, the animals, the plants, minerals etc.. everything)

ਸਾਂਗੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ
सांगु उतारि थम्हिओ पासारा ॥
Sāʼng uṯār thamiĥa▫o pāsārā.
but when the play ends, he takes off the costumes, (when this world ceases to exist, or... if we look beyond the 'play' to the formless Ik Onkar, Waheguru...)

ਤਬ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥
तब एको एकंकारा ॥१॥
Ŧab eko ekankārā. ||1||
and then he is one, and only one. ||1|| (...we see that everything is really ONE.... everything is Waheguru)

ਕਵਨ ਰੂਪ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਓ ਬਿਨਸਾਇਓ
कवन रूप द्रिसटिओ बिनसाइओ ॥
Kavan rūp ḏaristi▫o binsā▫i▫o.
How many forms and images appeared and disappeared?
(all form, in this creation which came from the formless Ik Onkar. This means all life, all inanimate objects, etc. Everything which is 'matter' - the Sargun expression of Nirgun formless Creator)

ਕਤਹਿ ਗਇਓ ਉਹੁ ਕਤ ਤੇ ਆਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
कतहि गइओ उहु कत ते आइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Kaṯėh ga▫i▫o uho kaṯ ṯe ā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Where have they gone? Where did they come from? ||1||Pause||
(Making us think, who is the ONE. Who is the originator, the doer, behind it all)

ਜਲ ਤੇ ਊਠਹਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਤਰੰਗਾ
जल ते ऊठहि अनिक तरंगा ॥
Jal ṯe ūṯẖėh anik ṯarangā.
Countless waves rise up from the water. (alludes to the expanse of Creation, countless forms arising from formless - the ocean itself is flat akin to formless, and waves emanate from it as forms, giving us an analogy of our separate identities, emanating from the ONE pool which we all emerge.. and that is Waheguru)


ਕਨਿਕ ਭੂਖਨ ਕੀਨੇ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗਾ
कनिक भूखन कीने बहु रंगा ॥
Kanik bẖūkẖan kīne baho rangā.
Jewels and ornaments of many different forms are fashioned from gold.

ਬੀਜੁ ਬੀਜਿ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਕਾਰਾ
बीजु बीजि देखिओ बहु परकारा ॥
Bīj bīj ḏekẖi▫o baho parkārā.
I have seen seeds of all kinds being planted -

ਫਲ ਪਾਕੇ ਤੇ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
फल पाके ते एकंकारा ॥२॥
Fal pāke ṯe ekankārā. ||2||
when the fruit ripens, the seeds appear in the same form as the original. ||2||
(gold is the base, jewellery is 'form' from the unmoulded gold, seeds planted give rise to trees and plants, but then the plants / trees produce seeds the same as the originator showing us that we are reflections of the divine - we carry the divine within us).

ਸਹਸ ਘਟਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਆਕਾਸੁ
सहस घटा महि एकु आकासु ॥
Sahas gẖatā mėh ek ākās.
The one sky is reflected in thousands of water jugs,
(The ONE Waheguru is reflected in all of creation)

ਘਟ ਫੂਟੇ ਤੇ ਓਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ
घट फूटे ते ओही प्रगासु ॥
Gẖat fūte ṯe ohī pargās.
but when the jugs are broken, only the sky remains.
(similarly remove the physical bodies, and you will see the deivine light... or if you prefer, when the Ego is broken, you can see it while the body still lives )

ਭਰਮ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਕਾਰ
भरम लोभ मोह माइआ विकार ॥
Bẖaram lobẖ moh mā▫i▫ā vikār.
Doubt comes from greed, emotional attachment and the corruption of Maya.
(doubt about these facts come from our attachment to this physical existence as a separate entity)

ਭ੍ਰਮ ਛੂਟੇ ਤੇ ਏਕੰਕਾਰ ॥੩॥
भ्रम छूटे ते एकंकार ॥३॥
Bẖaram cẖẖūte ṯe ekankār. ||3||
Freed from doubt, one realizes the One Lord alone. ||3||
(Remove all doubt and you see that all is the ONE Creator)

ਓਹੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਬਿਨਸਤ ਨਾਹੀ
ओहु अबिनासी बिनसत नाही ॥
Oh abẖināsī binsaṯ nāhī.
He is imperishable; He will never pass away.
(since we ARE the Creator... this is significant!)

ਨਾ ਕੋ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਜਾਹੀ
ना को आवै ना को जाही ॥
Nā ko āvai nā ko jāhī.
He does not come, and He does not go.
(Because Waheguru exists beyond this creation)

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਲੁ ਧੋਈ
गुरि पूरै हउमै मलु धोई ॥
Gur pūrai ha▫umai mal ḏẖo▫ī.
The Perfect Guru has washed away the filth of ego.
(and here we have it, ego itself is what is preventing us from this realization... the haume we have to realize these false identities for what they are)

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੀ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੧॥
कहु नानक मेरी परम गति होई ॥४॥१॥
Kaho Nānak merī param gaṯ ho▫ī. ||4||1||
Says Nanak, I have obtained the supreme status. ||4||1||
(the realization of being ONE and the same with Creator, such that there is no difference)


If you are going to ask me if I believe that "Harkiran" will be reincarnated, you will be asking the wrong question. Harkiran is only a character. However, the consciousness behind this character, is the true ME. And my real identity WILL go on to experience other perspectives. I know I explained this before... anyway, I am not going to discuss it because I know where the conversation will go. So we can just agree to disagree :)
what a great post....

and i agreeeeeeeee :)

its so clear to see what is being said here...and the end game of The Perfect Guru has washed away the filth of ego is the jewel...

it is an indication to the power of our Ego, the foothold it has on us...if we are unable to comprehend, be open to such a hard hitting, ego bashing, pile driver of a shabad...

:)
 

Aman Singh

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Classic case of misinterpreting Gurbani... taking one lines out of context...

Question: Is a woman unholy, when she is having periods?


One line answer by a so called learned "Sant Baba" ...
Je Ratt Lagay Kapday Jama Hoye Paleet || SGGS, Ang 140


 

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Classic case of misinterpreting Gurbani... taking one lines out of context...

Question: Is a woman unholy, when she is having periods?


One line answer by a so called learned "Sant Baba" ...
Je Ratt Lagay Kapday Jama Hoye Paleet || SGGS, Ang 140

Sir
No she is not ! How can a natural change such as menstrual cycle be "unholy" ? Perhaps, you meant unhygienic to sit and read path ? Either way, from a Sikh perspective it is closely assimilated with "cleanliness is godliness" maxim and that too, procedurally and not substantatively. Much of all this kinda of nonsense is begged n borrowed from the likes of sister religions, particularly, Islam. The verse on page 140 is to an end where Baba Nanak is comparing and contrasting the hypocracy of it all, that is, woman bleeding aren't good enough to read Quran and yet man, with bloody hands is. Where is the justice in that ? Says Nanak.

Yes, I agree Admin Singh Ji that the video above is a classic case of 1 line verse out of CONTEXT.

Thank you for that.

Goodnight !
 
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