Taking Amrit And After Taking Amrit

[kds1980]

from what i understand, sikh women stopped wearing turbans because the mughals used to pay people to bring in a sikh's head. women in turbans were also decapitated and their heads brought in, disguised as the heads of boys. so the women stopped wearing dastaar in order to protect themselves from this bounty. after a while, the custom of women in dastaar just faded away.

As far as my knowledge of sikh history is concerned there is no reliable evidence that large number of sikh women wore turban

 

[BhagatSingh]

this is incorrect. many women in african and carribean countries wear turbans. also in the west, turbans have been fashionable at various times, you can see them in 18th century paintings, photos from the 1920s, or on the fashion runways last year. they are also worn by women who's hair has fallen out due to disease, etc.

I was talking about in India, in a certain time period.

 

[kds1980]

another reason could be that in western culture, women are given equal status as men, and take advantage of the fact that sikhi ALSO gives us equal status.

in india, sikh women are said to be equals, but are not treated as such, and possibly don't have the same confidence that western women have (we've also discussed how indian women don't often discuss sikhi in online forums for similar reasons).

in the west, sikh women want to be recognized as sikhs. we don't want to be mistaken for muslims by wearing a dupatta on our heads. the dastaar gives a feeling of strength and confidence that can only be experienced by wearing it.

FYI- i wear a dastaar but follow panthic rehet and believe in the concept of EKTA (a united panth), so do not follow any jatha or 3ho.

Jasleen pardon me but are you saying that women who wear dastar are more equal to men than the women who wear dupatta.If i am not wrong sikhism gives freedom to women whether they want to wear dastaar or cover their head with dupatta.

AS far as status of indian women is concerned please don't generalise that all indian women are oppressed.In some families they are quite influential.

if western culture has given women equality they also have commodified women.also i want to know what do you mean by man woman equality

 

[BhagatSingh]

Jasleen pardon me but are you saying that women who wear dastar are more equal to men than the women who wear dupatta.If i am not wrong sikhism gives freedom to women whether they want to wear dastaar or cover their head with dupatta.

Do guys have the freedom to wear what they want?

 

[kds1980]

Do guys have the freedom to wear what they want?

Just read panthic rehat maryada It is written in it that woman could wear dastar but it is mandatory for men.Also please show me historical evidence that all sikh women of guru gobind singh ji's time wore dastar's

 

[BhagatSingh]

Just read panthic rehat maryada It is written in it that woman could wear dastar but it is mandatory for men.

Panthing Rehit Maryada is something else. It was written not too long ago.

 

[kds1980]

Panthing Rehit Maryada is something else. It was written not too long ago.

Panthic rehat maryada is prepared after decade's of research by sikh scholar's.If any rehat is close to original rehat prescribed by Guru gobind singh ji then it is panthic rehat.
please read the following thread about history of sikh code of conduct.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5365-a-history-of-sikh-code-conduct.html

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jasleen pardon me but are you saying that women who wear dastar are more equal to men than the women who wear dupatta.If i am not wrong sikhism gives freedom to women whether they want to wear dastaar or cover their head with dupatta.

AS far as status of indian women is concerned please don't generalise that all indian women are oppressed.In some families they are quite influential.

if western culture has given women equality they also have commodified women.also i want to know what do you mean by man woman equality

no, i'm saying that wearing a dastaar makes one feel strong and confident. it doesn't make the wearer more equal, but a woman who already feels strong and equal is probably more likely to wear it.

what do i mean by man woman equality? gurbani doesn't distinguish between men and women that i know of. seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Archived_Member1]

I was talking about in India, in a certain time period.

my mistake. i read your quote, " Women in no other culture wear turbans", and thought you actually meant no other culture. i should have realized you only meant no other indian culture.

and actually, i think that's wrong too because some Himalayan women wear turbans. but i guess the borders of india move around.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Panthic rehat maryada is prepared after decade's of research by sikh scholar's.If any rehat is close to original rehat prescribed by Guru gobind singh ji then it is panthic rehat.
please read the following thread about history of sikh code of conduct.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5365-a-history-of-sikh-code-conduct.html

BUt I read somewhere that women were allowed the freedom to not wear turbans because of the increasing women who were into fashion(hair styles) and therefore, decreasing number of amritdharis.

 

[Archived_Member1]

As far as my knowledge of sikh history is concerned there is no reliable evidence that large number of sikh women wore turban

it's hard to say, because a) there was no photography at the time, and b) women are simply not written about much in sikh history. however, those women who figure prominently in Guru Gobind Singh's time (Mai Bhago, for example) did wear turbans.

in fact, there's a story about Mai Bhago's turban...

Sikh historian Bhai Sahib Bhai Santokh Singh has given a somewhat detailed description concerning Mai Bhaag Kaur (commonly known as Mai Bhago) of Forty Muktas fame in his well known historical work GUR PARTAP SOORAJ. He mentions that Mai Bhaag Kaur had reached the highest stage of enlightenment and had almost lost her body consciousness...so much so that when her clothes became worn to shreds, she did not care to replace them. Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji called her in His Holy presence and instructed her to always stick to the Gursikh dress as prescribed in the Code of Conduct. In particular, she was ordered to wear Kachhehra and Dastaar. In fact, according to some chroniclers, the Dastaar was tied on her head by the Satguru himself. If this Dastaar was not a part of Sikhi, where was the need to include this item in the instructions given to a lady who had reached almost the Brahmgyan stage? It apparently shows that the Satguru gave very high importance to Dastaar.


you can read a lot more about historical evidence of women wearing dastaar here:

Sikh Articles - Dastaar for Women

 

[kds1980]

BUt I read somewhere that women were allowed the freedom to not wear turbans because of the increasing women who were into fashion(hair styles) and therefore, decreasing number of amritdharis.

The panthic rehat maryada was made in 1945 And at that time very few women were in fashion so i don't think it is true.

 

[kds1980]

it's hard to say, because a) there was no photography at the time, and b) women are simply not written about much in sikh history. however, those women who figure prominently in Guru Gobind Singh's time (Mai Bhago, for example) did wear turbans.

in fact, there's a story about Mai Bhago's turban...

Sikh historian Bhai Sahib Bhai Santokh Singh has given a somewhat detailed description concerning Mai Bhaag Kaur (commonly known as Mai Bhago) of Forty Muktas fame in his well known historical work GUR PARTAP SOORAJ. He mentions that Mai Bhaag Kaur had reached the highest stage of enlightenment and had almost lost her body consciousness...so much so that when her clothes became worn to shreds, she did not care to replace them. Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji called her in His Holy presence and instructed her to always stick to the Gursikh dress as prescribed in the Code of Conduct. In particular, she was ordered to wear Kachhehra and Dastaar. In fact, according to some chroniclers, the Dastaar was tied on her head by the Satguru himself. If this Dastaar was not a part of Sikhi, where was the need to include this item in the instructions given to a lady who had reached almost the Brahmgyan stage? It apparently shows that the Satguru gave very high importance to Dastaar.


you can read a lot more about historical evidence of women wearing dastaar here:

Sikh Articles - Dastaar for Women

Jasleen i know the story of mai bhago.2 years ago i raised this question with my late amritdhari grandmother.She clearly said that sikh women should not wear dastar
and my bhua (father' sister) who is also strict sikh woman also supported her .They said that nowhere it is written that it is mandatory for sikh women to wear dastar.There were
and are many amritdhari women in my relation's but not even a single woman wear dastar
.so I simply cannot beleive that if something is strictly recommended by guru gobind singh ji just vanished from sikh society.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jasleen i know the story of mai bhago.2 years ago i raised this question with my late amritdhari grandmother.She clearly said that sikh women should not wear dastar
and my bhua (father' sister) who is also strict sikh woman also supported her .They said that nowhere it is written that it is mandatory for sikh women to wear dastar.There were
and are many amritdhari women in my relation's but not even a single woman wear dastar
.so I simply cannot beleive that if something is strictly recommended by guru gobind singh ji just vanished from sikh society.

just because it's not mandatory does not mean we should not wear it.

 

[kds1980]

just because it's not mandatory does not mean we should not wear it.

I am not at all saying women who want's to wear dastaar should not wear it.I was just telling you some of the traditional views of sikh society.which i collected from my grandmother.

 

[Archived_Member1]

i'm curious, why would she say we should NOT wear dastaar? what was her reasoning? rehet clearly says that we may or may not wear it.

most of the sikh women i have talked to from india say they think it is "ugly" or "boyish" and that's why they don't want to wear it. they say that a girl who wears a dastaar can't get a good husband.
i find these reasons pretty silly, myself.

 

[kds1980]

i'm curious, why would she say we should NOT wear dastaar? what was her reasoning? rehet clearly says that we may or may not wear it.

most of the sikh women i have talked to from india say they think it is "ugly" or "boyish" and that's why they don't want to wear it. they say that a girl who wears a dastaar can't get a good husband.
i find these reasons pretty silly, myself.

may be the reason could be that the sewapanthi's who were active in my grandmother's village and other area's of pakistan were against it.Some of my ancestors were associated with them.But it has nothing to do with looks

 

[Archived_Member1]

may be the reason could be that the sewapanthi's who were active in my grandmother's village and other area's of pakistan were against it.Some of my ancestors were associated with them.But it has nothing to do with looks

just curious, but where and when did she take amrit? did you know that before the SGPC, everyone who took amrit at Akal Takht was required to wear a dastaar? this includes women. i guess that would be some sort of historical evidence.

 

[kds1980]

just curious, but where and when did she take amrit? did you know that before the SGPC, everyone who took amrit at Akal Takht was required to wear a dastaar? this includes women. i guess that would be some sort of historical evidence.

I don't know from where she took amrit.

also please tell me where it is written that everyone who took amrit before Sgpc at akal takhat is required to wear dastar

 

[Archived_Member1]

I don't know from where she took amrit.

also please tell me where it is written that everyone who took amrit before Sgpc at akal takhat is required to wear dastar

i've read it from numerous websites. i'll try to find the source document, but of course since i don't read punjabi very well, i will need you to read it and confirm.