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Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by japjisahib04, May 24, 2009.

  1. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Qatar
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    Jan 22, 2005
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    Unlike the belief of Middle Eastern religions and general belief among people that root of sufferings is SIN, and its washing detergent is virtue, the gurbani on the contrary declare the root of suffering is not SIN but ignorance as out of ignorance only most of the time we hurt someone feelings. Guru Nanak in this stanza logically and realistically clears this delusion and says, pwp puMn duie eyk smwn ] since quest for power and control for vice and virtue stems from the submission to lust, anger, attachment, greed and ego, thus base of both sin and virtue are same.’ SGGS 325-7 like, ‘qIrQ brq Aru dwn kir mn mY DrY gumwnu ] instead of chanting and mediataing on His name when mortal takes pride in pilgrimages to sacred shrines, observe ritualistic fasts and make donations to charity, is useless, like the elephant, who takes a bath, and then rolls in the dust, then what is the difference between both of them, how can then SIN alone be the cause of sufferings. It says SIN is like a flower from which fruit of sufferings sprout out and is not the seed or root of sufferings, thus seed of suffering is ignorance.
    Brain of mankind works in two ways. And job of brain is to invent. Now it depends upon us whether we go after worldly creation or after God. The one who understood the rule of worldly objects is called scientist whereas the one who understood rule of God is saint and they have attuned themselves accordingly to achieve eternal bliss and merge in HIM. In same manner Guru Nanak is expressing those secrets in stanza twenty. It is true mankind does not want to soil his hands and feet but it is apparent that environment is polluted and one cannot avoid it. Therefore the soap is quoted as detergent to clean the body and dirty clothes. Thus we keep the body and dirty clothes clean always by washing them with soap. It will be significant to mention that none of the holy saints had ever used the word ‘soap’ in any holy scripture.
    In similar manner mankind wants to live in bliss and does not want sufferings but the attachment of maya does not let it happen and as such mortals are unhappy and suffering throughout of their life. Thus when the understanding of the mind is stained or mind becomes polluted due to attachment with maya, Guru Nanak in contradiction to the belief prevalent is telling us the only detergent to clean the mind is devotion single-mindedly and colored in His love by remembrance of God’s Name. The divergence of mind from our own to God is the elimination of suffering. Gurbani clearly tells us, ‘ibnu sbdY suDu n hoveI jy Anyk krY sIgwr ]Without the Word of the Shabad, purity is not obtained or knowledge between vice and virtue is not obtained, even though the soul-bride may adorn herself with all sorts of decorations. Only Love for HIM has any affect which develop awareness that work as cleaning detergent .

    Guru Nanak in next line is clearly warning us that, ‘puMnI pwpI AwKxu nwih ]’ -vice and virtues are not for the name sake but whatever one does is engraved on mind and is accountable. Once anything with the intention to cheat with full concentration is done, ‘lyKu n imteI hy sKI jo iliKAw krqwir ] the inscription inscribed by the Hukam cannot be erased, O my companions.’ SGSS 937.15, thus ‘Awpy bIij Awpy hI Kwhu ]’one has to harvest or yield what he plants.. Throughout life human beings are suffering, does it mean they are committing sin throughout. If origin of sufferings is SIN then human being wouldn’t have committed SIN. Sin is also like fire or poison but due to ignorance one enjoys slandering or exploiting his power. BUT ‘imTw kir kY kauVw KwieAw ] Thus seed of suffering is ignorance. If one knows it is poison he will not take. A child does not know fire will burn his hand or putting his hand in snake mouth will harm him thus without knowing he acts but as he gets older or becomes aware he does not risk. But unfortunately despite best of University Degrees and worldly knowledge, change in deeply held unconscious belief system of hollow rituals does not take place thus ignorance of vice and virtues. Generally people commit sin while not considering it as sin but out of ignorance.How will we accomplish and mnih BieAw prgwsw ] – mind is enlightened to know vice and virtue or technique to avoid and neutralize the effect of vice and virtue it is by with great good fortune meeting the true guru? Gurbani tells, ‘Ehu DopY nwvY kY rMig ] - It is by concentration on God till you access brahm agni which works as cleaning detergent. Thus before the fruit of sufferings sprout out, name of God makes the SEED or flower ineffective.
    Best regards
    Mohinder Sahni
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    Question About Sufferings Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Mar 28, 2005

  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Jun 17, 2004
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    We need the full shabad Mohinder ji,

    ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
    naanak guramukh paaeeai har sio preeth piaar ||
    O Nanak, the Gurmukh attains the Lord, with love and affection.

    ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਿਨਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਮਨਿ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
    har bin kin sukh paaeiaa dhaekhahu man beechaar ||
    Without the Lord, who has found peace? Reflect upon this in your mind, and see.

    ਹਰਿ ਪੜਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਬੁਝਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਰਖਹੁ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
    har parranaa har bujhanaa har sio rakhahu piaar ||
    Read about the Lord, understand the Lord, and enshrine love for the Lord.
    ਹਰਿ ਜਪੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥੫੧॥

    har japeeai har dhhiaaeeai har kaa naam adhhaar ||51||
    Chant the Lord's Name, and meditate on the Lord; hold tight to the Support of the Name of the Lord. ||51||

    ਲੇਖੁ ਨ ਮਿਟਈ ਹੇ ਸਖੀ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥
    laekh n mittee hae sakhee jo likhiaa karathaar ||
    The inscription inscribed by the Creator Lord cannot be erased, O my companions.

    ਆਪੇ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪਗੁ ਧਾਰਿ ॥
    aapae kaaran jin keeaa kar kirapaa pag dhhaar ||
    He who created the universe, in His Mercy, installs His Feet within us.

    ਕਰਤੇ ਹਥਿ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
    karathae hathh vaddiaaeeaa boojhahu gur beechaar ||
    Glorious greatness rests in the Hands of the Creator; reflect upon the Guru, and understand this.

    ਲਿਖਿਆ ਫੇਰਿ ਨ ਸਕੀਐ ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੀ ਤਿਉ ਸਾਰਿ ॥
    likhiaa faer n sakeeai jio bhaavee thio saar ||
    This inscription cannot be challenged. As it pleases You, You care for me.

    ਨਦਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
    nadhar thaeree sukh paaeiaa naanak sabadh veechaar ||
    By Your Glance of Grace, I have found peace; O Nanak, reflect upon the Shabad.

    Ang 937

    Please forgive me, Antonia
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    1947-2014 (Archived)
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    Jun 17, 2004
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    This one is from Ang 325

    ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ॥
    gourree kabeer jee ||
    Gauree, Kabeer Jee:

    4 ਜੋਤਿ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਜਾਤਿ ਕੀ ਜੋਤੀ ॥
    joth kee jaath jaath kee jothee ||
    The creation is born of the Light, and the Light is in the creation.

    ਤਿਤੁ ਲਾਗੇ ਕੰਚੂਆ ਫਲ ਮੋਤੀ ॥੧॥
    thith laagae kanchooaa fal mothee ||1||
    It bears two fruits: the false glass and the true pearl. ||1||

    ਕਵਨੁ ਸੁ ਘਰੁ ਜੋ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਕਹੀਐ ॥
    kavan s ghar jo nirabho keheeai ||
    Where is that home, which is said to be free of fear?

    ਭਉ ਭਜਿ ਜਾਇ ਅਭੈ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    bho bhaj jaae abhai hoe reheeai ||1|| rehaao ||
    There, fear is dispelled and one lives without fear. ||1||Pause||

    ਤਟਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥
    thatt theerathh nehee man patheeaae ||
    On the banks of sacred rivers, the mind is not appeased.

    ਚਾਰ ਅਚਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਉਰਝਾਇ ॥੨॥
    chaar achaar rehae ourajhaae ||2||
    People remain entangled in good and bad deeds. ||2||

    ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਦੁਇ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨ ॥
    paap punn dhue eaek samaan ||
    Sin and virtue are both the same.

    ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਤਜਹੁ ਗੁਨ ਆਨ ॥੩॥
    nij ghar paaras thajahu gun aan ||3||
    In the home of your own being, is the Philosopher's Stone; renounce your search for any other virtue. ||3||

    ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਰੋਸੁ ॥
    kabeer niragun naam n ros ||
    Kabeer: O worthless mortal, do not lose the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

    ਇਸੁ ਪਰਚਾਇ ਪਰਚਿ ਰਹੁ ਏਸੁ ॥੪॥੯॥
    eis parachaae parach rahu eaes ||4||9||
    Keep this mind of yours involved in this involvement. ||4||9||
  5. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    May 25, 2005
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    Excellent post. You hear so many Sikhs talk about SIN!

    Really shows how they do not even understand the basics of Sikhism.
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