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Sri Guru Granth Sahib: For The Masses Or The Elite

Seeker9

Cleverness is not wisdom
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May 2, 2010
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Challenge for all is to build from simplicity to depth and not necessarily the other way around all the time.

There is a lot to be said for learning to crawl before you can walk and then perfecting walking before you can run

There is a "lost in translation" aspect and I guess those who are fluent in the Gurmukhi script can appreciate some things differently

But Ishna Ji, what you describe applies to the majority of sacred texts from the Vedas, to the Bible etc doesn't it? However, one thing we can say with some confidence and which does make SGGS stand out I think is in terms of it's composition (by the Gurus and Bhagats and not religious scribes) and its accuracy...in terms of not having bits taken out, new bits added etc

So, I think we are very lucky that there is a true version to be translated in the first place!

This is something the masses should rejoice about!!
 

Seeker9

Cleverness is not wisdom
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May 2, 2010
652
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I should have added though that in studies of philosophy, religion and science, there will always be learned people make scholarly contributions and those are to be welcomed so long as they have a genuine desire to share and explain their knowledge and enrich our understanding as well

But not elitists as the thread title suggests...
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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Surprisingly, I can read punjabi, even with my very limited efforts, I find I can get more out of a limited punjabi reading, when I do not understand half the words, than I can reading an english translation, SGGS is not that different to reading normal punjabi, it is not written in the elitist manner that dominates other religions, but then I have not read a huge amount, so I am happy to be corrected
 
Aug 28, 2010
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I find that we all like to understand Gurbani based on what our earlier great preachers and scholars have established for us We dont wantto budge even an inch from these norms and a our all efforts are there to see that these earlier established norms are not disturbed.
Knowing and or Reading a particular language is different from getting the understanding of the meanings from that language..
We will have to see why we are avoiding the words of Gurbani with matra of Aukad.Unless we understand the meanings of the Gurbani words with Matra of Aukad we are going to stay where we are.
This is the reason many of us do not know what we have to look from within Gurbani.
First and the most important is to know What is Prabh(u) in Gurbani ?Once we get to know this any one can start towards right understanding of Gurbani.
(This word Prabhu I refer to the word Prabh with A matra of Aukad under its last letter.)

I know one of my veer has taken the word Prabh with Matra of Dulaikd as reference in the interpretation of the word Sati Naamu.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Prakash.s.bagga ji for once please enlighten us with "One Complete Shabad" translated in English per your Grammar suggestion so that we can understand your point. We can then perhaps also learn first hand what you mean and use it in our studies. I am sorry no body here is stupid to just plagiarize, close their eyes and accept what they read. People try to make an effort to understand with all that is available and not in-spite of all that is available.
There is very rude saying in English, "Put up or Shut up". I am not sure if it illustrates my or others frustration.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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My intentiom is not to frustrate anyone.
I can post any sabad in english for your and anyones analysis but you should ensure that the same would not be deleted as I have been advised by SPNAdmin ji any thing off the prevailing standard would be a subject of deletion.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Seeker9

Cleverness is not wisdom
SPNer
May 2, 2010
652
980
UK
Dear Prakash Ji

I think the standard is to post the complete Shabad in it's entirety in both punjabi and english translation

I think this makes a lot of sense

We are here to learn and we want to make sure we get as much detail as we can. It is sometimes easy to search for specific words and then take a line out of context.

If we can see the complete Shabad, we can then understand the overall context and then in turn understand the individual lines

So hopefully you will be able to accommodate this

Thanks
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
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Dec 21, 2010
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My intentiom is not to frustrate anyone.
I can post any sabad in english for your and anyones analysis but you should ensure that the same would not be deleted as I have been advised by SPNAdmin ji any thing off the prevailing standard would be a subject of deletion.
Prakash.s.Bagga
Prakash.s.Bagga ji process is very simple. Go to srigranth.org. Pick the shabad and post it with the English translation of Sant Singh Khalsa and if possible also select Prof. Sahib Singh Teeka option. Then you state your own translations for all to see and compare. There are many such examples of posting throughout the SPN.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Henderson, NV.
My intentiom is not to frustrate anyone.
I can post any sabad in english for your and anyones analysis but you should ensure that the same would not be deleted as I have been advised by SPNAdmin ji any thing off the prevailing standard would be a subject of deletion.
Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakash ji,

Guru Fateh.

I do not know if you remember this but I requested you to teach us what Sihari, Bihari,aunkar etc and other part of grammer in Gurbani mean and how they change the meaning/s of the word many years ago when you started posting in this forum.

I had requested you to post shabads which had words with and without the above and shed some light on the differences. We are all here to learn and as you have pointed out in many of your posts the differences, it is you who can solve these riddles for us.

I hope you do it this time.

Thanks and eagerly waiting for your input.

Tejwant Singh
 
Aug 28, 2010
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TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
GUROO FATEH PARWAN,

I always value your views and interactions in the context of Gurbani.
I have been requesting to everyone that we should first be confirmed that there are three words related to GuR as.
1 GuR
2 GuR with a matra of Aukad under letter R as Single line and
3 GuR with a matra of Dulaikad under letter R as two lines
This pattern of words is very clear in Gurmukhi version whereas in English version we can see that there is no word depicted for its matra of Aukad.
Till now no one has agreed to this observation regarding the words.So it is my sincere request that if we want to acquire a clear understanding we should come forward for an discussion with open mind.It should not be viewed as show of superiority or making someone inferior.We all are here to understand the messages of our GuRoo as clearly as possible.
I look forward to the positive cooperation of the sangat.
With kind regards
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
GUROO FATEH PARWAN,

I always value your views and interactions in the context of Gurbani.
I have been requesting to everyone that we should first be confirmed that there are three words related to GuR as.
1 GuR
2 GuR with a matra of Aukad under letter R as Single line and
3 GuR with a matra of Dulaikad under letter R as two lines
This pattern of words is very clear in Gurmukhi version whereas in English version we can see that there is no word depicted for its matra of Aukad.
Till now no one has agreed to this observation regarding the words.So it is my sincere request that if we want to acquire a clear understanding we should come forward for an discussion with open mind.It should not be viewed as show of superiority or making someone inferior.We all are here to understand the messages of our GuRoo as clearly as possible.
I look forward to the positive cooperation of the sangat.
With kind regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please post the whole shabads in Gurmukhi and also in English with your own interpretation about what you have mentioned above regarding the grammar in Gurbani which I agree is very important to understand our Gurus' message.

You can help us take these baby steps towards the way to understand Gurbani.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

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