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Discussion in 'Spiritual' started by vsgrewal48895, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. vsgrewal48895

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    Writer SPNer

    Mar 12, 2009
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    Dear Teji Ji,

    Here are my two cents on the subject of soul, which may be controvertial, but any how I am going to submit to your request;



    Soul is a metaphysical, indefinable, infinite, inaccessible, inapprehensible and a vital principle. It is considered by most of the humanity as a part of a Higher Power or energy, not subject to destruction, having a consciousness. Still, it remains unappreciated by the normal five senses of, vision, hearing, smell, touch, and taste. Medically it is the aspect of the individual that perceives the experiences of life and actions-conscience through integrated actions of multiple systems of the body. It integrates and changes the out look of life with spiritual progress. Through it one has the chance to become a Guru willed or remain suppressed by free will-self willed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The fullness of the reality of spiritual energy, is infinite and inclusive. The all-pervading spiritual energy is consciously and simultaneously presents everywhere.
    The soul of mankind is likened metaphorically to be a bride in AGGS, who as a paramour resides in the body and mind. The bridegroom resides on the top of the Universe but also diffused in everything (ਨਿਰੰਤਰ). This exemplification is needed to emphasize the devotional Divine love for spiritual growth. Otherwise God and soul are genderless. Trust and fortitude are the qualities of the conscience needed to follow the path of Divine love, and Divine fear- their magnetic pull will land us on the way to Akal Purkh.

    ਸੂਖਮ ਅਸਥੂਲ ਸਗਲ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥

    Sookham Asthool Sagal Bhagvaan.

    The Akal Purkh (Bridegroom) is subtle (ਨਿਰਗੁਨ) and manifest (ਸਰਗੁਨੁ).
    -----Guru Arjan, Thiti Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 299-17

    Our egocentric view of the self in relationship to life is inadequate in making us completely self-sufficient. We mind and body creatures are insignificant in comparison to cosmos with its omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence of the spiritual energy. The universe as the spiritual energy manifesting consciousness is self-complete. This energy and principle do not vary in amount but it does undergo transformational changes. Being complete in itself, it can only refer to itself. This unseen, infinite, inaccessible, inapprehensible energy is not subject to destruction. The object of the practice of spiritual science and scientists is to detach the bride from the snares of lowlands and reunite her with her lawful husband, “The Divine”. By the light of this transcendental principle (so called soul/conscience), we can tell the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, appropriate and inappropriate. This transcendental principle is Truth in itself. The practice of Truth is an acceptable ablution. It is effective to cleanse the body defiled by falsehood.

    ਸੇ ਛੂਟੇ ਸਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ ॥ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਰਤੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਸਿਉ ਬਣਿ ਆਈ ਹੇ ॥

    Say Chootay Sach Kaar Kama-ee, Ahinis Bhagat Ratay Veechaaree Thaakur Si-o Ban Aa-ee Hay.

    They alone find release, which perform truthful deeds. Day and night, the devotees remain absorbed in contemplative meditation; they become just like their God and Master. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1024-4

    There is a veil of illusion separating this Higher Power, energy just like fire hiding in wood, butter in milk, and oil in sesame seed.

    ਸਗਲ ਬਨਸਪਤਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਦੂਧ ਮਹਿ ਘੀਆ॥ਊਚ ਨੀਚ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਮਾਧਉ
    ਜੀਆ ॥

    Sagal Banspat Meh Baisantar Sagal Doodh Meh Ghiaa, Ooch Neech Meh Jot Samaanee Ghat Ghat MaaDha-o Jee-aa.

    Fire is contained in all firewood, and butter is contained in all milk. God's Light is contained in the high and the low; the Akal Purkh is in the hearts of all beings.
    -----Guru Arjan, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 617-2

    ਸੁਨੁ ਸਖੀ ਪੀਅ ਮਹਿ ਜੀਉ ਬਸੈ ਜੀਅ ਮਹਿ ਬਸੈ ਕਿ ਪੀਉ ॥ ਜੀਉ ਪੀਉ ਬੂਝਉ ਨਹੀ ਘਟ ਮਹਿ ਜੀਉ ਕਿ ਪੀਉ ॥

    Soun Sakhee Peeaa Meh Jeo Basai Jeaa Meh Basai Kay Peeo, Jeo Peeo Boojhou Nahi Ghat Meh Jeo Kay Peeo.

    Listen, O my companions: my soul dwells in my Beloved, and my Beloved dwells in my soul. I realize that there is no difference between my soul and my Beloved; I cannot tell whether my soul or my Beloved dwells in my heart. ---Kabir Sloke, AGGS, Page, 1377-6

    What is life? What keeps a human, an animal, or a plant keeps alive? What keeps the cells alive, whether animal, plant or others? This question has to be answered before we can define the term "SOUL". There is an indefinable animating vital principle, higher power, energy, serving this purpose. A disciple wanted his teacher to show him the Higher Power or the vital principle. Teacher responded that it cannot be shown, but let me answer you by asking these questions?

    1. Can you make the sunrise or set?
    2. Can you make the leaves grow on a tree?
    3. Pluck a rose bud and make it bloom with out breaking the petals?

    The pupil laughed and replied, are you kidding? Who can do it? Teacher said that is your answer. There are certain, eternal, universal laws of Mother Nature, which cannot be explained but followed.

    Soul is ether, energy and like God it is also a spirit. It is that energy which rules over time, space, life, and death. This Metaphysical energy is a part of every organism. This energy is in the Nirgun state, without attributes, before coming in touch with matter. It then becomes Sargun, acquires attributes, creates life in the body, and gets involved in the three Gunas of Maya -- ignorance, passion and goodness. This energy is conscious, while the matter is unconscious. Thus the element of the knowledge of spirit is known as spirituality. Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided humans. One needs to at least examine science and technology, even if it becomes outdated every other day. Science reveals some of the secrets of Mother Nature.

    Our ancestors could not explain many of its mysteries and started calling its objects – sun, moon and fire – as gods. They also started worshiping them. Science has progressed in such areas as space, travel and communication that fighting a war in Afghanistan while sitting in Florida by pressing some buttons is feasible. How can I describe the splendor of moon, sun, fire, stars and the Divine Higher Power, while I cannot even understand the computer-power stored in a little chip?

    This Universal Higher Power, the actual cause of life of an entity, being immaterial acts differently in different situations and objects. Nerve cells need oxygen and die within four minutes without it. Other tissues can survive longer and can be kept alive with other artificial energies for some time, by transplanting organs, for example. Plants need light as energy for photosynthesis. Life of a cell in itself is an independent pattern of energy. Cellular death occurs soon after the death of the organism to which it belongs. The life of an organism is dependent on a complex, co-coordinated function of multiple organs or tissues. The point is that since cells survive the death of an organism, transplants of matching organs and tissues from a donor cadaver are feasible, thus creating confusion in the mind about soul.

    The transformation of energy in matter to life forming living cells by conjugation of 250 proteins in a definite sequence leads to DNA or life, which in its upgraded growth can be called evolution. Stem cells can be grown into top cell lines and made to serve as different kinds of cells. This gives hope that cures for difficult diseases may be on the horizon, if we can keep religion and politics out of the equation.

    Question arises as to how the transplantation of organs, kideney, heart, skin, cornea, bone marrow etc. from one individual to another answers the question of soul? Is there a soul in every cell of the body?

    By retrieving some organs of the body for transplantation, if removed in time, before the cellular death, success has been achieved in cases of kidneys, heart, skin, cornea of the eye etc. Now if the transplanted organs work, does a part of the previous soul of the dead person or the soul of the person receiving the transplant takes over? Individual cells of an organ before their cellular death are responsible for the success. Soul energy may have no role in this. These transplanted organs raise important questions about the metaphysical principle, energy, and soul:

    Is there is a soul?

    Are the living function and consciousness just co-ordinate interdependent functions of the body organs?

    Human life span has gone up from the forties to seventies. Is it because God has become more compassionate because humans have become nobler? Or, is because science has advanced and made available early diagnosis and better treatment? These are difficult questions to answer.

    The following Sabd describes the process of evolution:

    ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥

    Kayee Janam Bha-ay Keett Patangaa, “Kayee Janam Meen Kurangaa, Kayee Janam Pankhee Sarap Hooeyoo, Kayee Janam Haivar Birkh Jooeyoo, Mil Jagdeesh Milan Kee Baree-aa, Chirankaal Eh Deh Sanjaree-aa, Kayee Janam Sail Gir Kariaa, Kayee Janam Garabh Hir Khariaa, Kayee Janam Saakh Kar Oupaaey-aa, Lakh Chauraasee Joan Bharmaaey-aa, Saadh Sung Bhaeo Janam Praapat, Kar Seva Bhaj Har Har Gurmat.

    In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect. In so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. Now it is time to meet the Creator of the Universe. After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb. In so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves. You wandered through 8.4 million incarnations (evolution). Through the Sadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. Do seva, selfless service; and vibrate the Akal Purkh's Name. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri Guareri, AGGS, Page, 176

    This Sabd is an explanation of evolution of the universe and life from a mineral, to living cells like coral, of growth in the presence of water, of mountains, trees, and animals IMHO. Eventually, the progression over a span of more than a billion years led to human beings. The God in man is the first being in evolution. The kingdom of human is the only breeding ground in which the ingeminated seed of munificent Divine can be incubated, hatched, and grown to maturity of self conscious ruler of the ship in the cosmic field.

    This Higher Power, called Soul, acting as a catalytic agent, makes the system of complex cells and organs to function individually and inter-dependently and makes life possible. Gold cannot be melted without Suhaga (Borax). It acts as a catalytic agent. Similarly, soul/conscience is a catalytic agent for life. Gurbani, Sabd Guru, directs us towards the Truth and leads us toward the Will/Fear of God and its acceptance as the rule of spirituality. It advises us to subjugate the lower or animal instincts (Auseri Gunas), of born with Lust, Anger, Greed, Bondage and Ego located in mind. The task is to uproot these by developing Godly instincts (Dyavi Gunas), Virtues, of contentment, truth, contemplation, faith in divine existence, charity, benevolence, tolerance and humility. That is the way to prevent transmigration/reincarnation of this energy in to animal or inferior animal bodies. This form of progress in humans leads to the formation of character in five stages, as explained by Guru Nanak in japji. Character is destiny, lack of it is doom. The basic instincts of self, security, sex instincts and the like, are needed for the human race to survive and grow.

    One should make a raft of meditation of Naam, and self-discipline, by conquering the lower instincts to carry one across the oceans and mountains of life (ਭਵਜਲ).
    The more you learn and embody the Naam in practice, the freer you will be. "We need to balance the need to do with need to be." One can learn an important lesson from the following hymn of Bhagat Trilochan:

    ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲਛਮੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥ ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥ ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥ ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲੜਿਕੇ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ਸੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥ ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥

    Unt Kaal Jo Lachami Simrai Aisee Chinta Meh Jay Marai, Sarap Joan Val Val Aoutrai, Aree Baayi Gobid Naam Mat Beesrai, Unt Kaal Jo Istri Simrai Aisi Chinta Meh Jay Marai, Bayswa Joan Val Val Aoutrai, Unt Kaal Jo Larhkay Simrai Aisee Chinta Meh Jay Marai, Sookar Joan Val Val Aoutrai, Unt Kaal Jo Mander Simrai Aisee Chinta Meh Jo Marai, Prayt Joan Val Val Aoutrai, Unt Kall Narain Simrai Aisee Chinta Meh Jo Marai, Badit Tilochan Tay Nar Mukta Peetanbar Va Kay Ridai Basai.

    At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. O sister, do not forget the Name of the Creator of the Universe. At the very last moment, which thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. At the very last moment, one who thinks of God, and dies in such thoughts, Says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; It shall abide in his heart.
    -----Bhagat Trilochan, Raag Gujri, AGGS, Page, 526

    IMHO this is to create a fear in the mind of the individual to put him on the right path of Truth that if at the time of death you remember this and that, you will get a birth as such and such but Guru Angad in Raag Suhi reminds us that an individual should have only one fear of God and none others;

    ਜਿਨਾ ਭਉ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਨਾਹਿ ਭਉ ਮੁਚੁ ਭਉ ਨਿਭਵਿਆਹ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਹੁ ਪਟੌਤਰਾ ਤਿਤੁ ਦੀਬਾਣਿ ਗਇਆਹ॥

    Jina Bhou Tin Nahin Bhou Mouch Bhou Nibhviaah, Nanak Ayh Patantra {censored} Deeban Gai-aah.

    Those who have the Fear of God have no other fears those who do not have the Fear of God, are very afraid. O Nanak, this mystery is revealed at the Court of the Akal Purkh.
    -----Guru Angad, Var Suhi, AGGS, Page, 788-2 & 3

    Sabd Guru also instructs us to kill desire and develop contentment with acceptance. The message here is that if one becomes serene, by contemplation, prayer, devotion, deliberation and reflection, he can be blessed with the Akal Purkh’s Grace. Then his soul/conscience/energy merges into the Higher Power, just as water mingles with water.

    ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਹ ਨਰ ਕਉ ਕੀਨੀ ਤਿਹ ਇਹ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਨ ਭਇਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਪਾਨੀ॥

    Gur Kirpaa Jih Nar Ka-o Keenee Tih Ih Jugat Pachhaanee, Nanak Leen Bhaio Gobind Sio Jio Paanee Sang Paanee.

    One who is blessed by Guru's Grace understands this way. O Nanak, he merges with the Creator of the Universe, like water with water.
    ------ Guru Tegh Bahadur, Raag Sorath, AGGS, Page, 633-19

    There are 4 kinds of reproduction described in AGGS page 596-15, many other places, and in Chaupee of tenth Guru Ji: Andej, Jeraj, Setaj, and Utbhuj:

    The beings born of eggs, born of the womb, born of the earth and born of sweat, all are created by You.

    How can a soul be transferred by sweat or heat? Is DNA the conduit for this? I am reminded of 1950, when I was dissecting an earthworm. I knew it was hermaphrodite. If you divide it in to two, both parts would live. Can a soul be divided in to two? Do identical twins share one soul or does each of the twins have a separate soul? Reproduction by binary fission again falls in the domain of biology. These questions keep one pondering about this metaphysical conscious energy. What about cloning? Does the scientist create a soul without a male sperm by just taking DNA from the skin cell and fertilizing the enucleated ovum? These are interesting questions to ponder.

    Stories about near death experience (NDE) and out of body experience (OBE), especially of people, who died clinically less than 4 minutes seem unbelievable. Their nerve cells would have been alive. The feelings in the above situations have been explained by stimulation of the temporal lobes of brain and producing a similar picture.

    Science is progressing on a daily basis. We may get some answers to these questions during our life-time. Already the new technology of "Scramjet" X-43 a design has enabled US missiles to reach a speed of 7,000 miles per hour, 10 times the speed of sound, using compressed air with hydrogen fuel. So they can reach a target any where in the world within two hours.

    Sikh religion is meant to rescue one from the worldly entanglements by purifying their consciousness. This most significant aspect of the Sikh religion should animate and inspire the efforts in awakening the consciousness and in recovering the lost memories. In domains of theologies and ecclesiastical theories, the proof of demonstration is significantly lacking. The desire to organize the spiritual state entered through the synthesis around the teachings of Sabd Guru and listening the Holy Naam rather than external piety should take the priority. In the bark of one's consciousness reclines the commanding principle. It can be awakened through good deeds. Self-control is strength and right thought is mastery.


    The major religions consider soul and consciousness one and the same. They agree that it survives the body’s death to meld in to the Universal Conscience. Philosophers maintain that the problem of consciousness is beyond the reach of human intelligence and it cannot be equated to self-awareness.

    Scientifically consciousness or soul is a by-product of the activity of the one trillion brain cells by their coordinated and integrated function. It is a maelstrom of events distributed across the brain, which is a product of evolution containing 6,000 genes out of a total of 30,000 human genes. When the physiological activity of the brain stops consciousness or soul, goes out of existence. The physiology of consciousness offers a sounder basis for morality than the improvable dogma of immortal soul. The former will reduce human suffering and solidify the core of morality. It gives more life purpose that every moment of consciousness is precious and fragile gift. Out of body or near death experiences are the symptoms of oxygen starvation of brain and eyes. These can be reproduced experimentally by stimulation of parietal lobes of the brain.
    No attempt has been made to step on any toes and each member has a right to draw his own conclusions according to his belief and understanding.

    ਜਾ ਕੈ ਜੀਅ ਜੈਸੀ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੋਈ ॥ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾਨੈਗਾ ਸੋਈ ॥

    Jā kai jī¬a jaisī buḏẖ ho¬ī, Kahi Kabīr jānaigā so¬ī.

    What ever kind of understanding is lodged in one’s self, such shall his realization be, says Kabir. -----Kabir, Gauri Poorbi Bawan Akhri, AGGS, Page, 343-2

    ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੀ ॥ ਬਰਨਤ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤੁਹਿ ਤੇਤੀ ॥

    Aap Aapni Budh Hai Jayti. Barnat Bhin Bhin Toh Tayti.

    According to one’s own intellect, one describes Thee differently.
    -----Guru Gobind Singh, Chaupi, DG, Page, 1387-393


    Virinder S. Grewal
    Williamston, MI
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  2. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Grewal Ji,

    It's going to take some time to digest this. See you tomorrow again. It's 3.16 am here in Malaysia. Good nite.
    • Like Like x 1
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