☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Harjas Kaur Khalsa" data-source="post: 84569" data-attributes="member: 2125"><p>Veerji please, (<span style="color: Blue">ਬਣਾਇਆ</span>), Banaia, from bana. Means same thing as roop or form. The vaak says the formless Lord took form as Guru Nanak. Why the hair-splitting? For the awkward grammatical construction of English language, translators used the word "assume" meaning ("to take on") form. It does not alter the meaning of the Guru vaak. The formless has still become the form of Guru Nanak per Gurbani.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I believe the English construction of the sentence is saying, as the Ganges creates waves, waves being fundamentally a part of the Ganges river, in like manner did Guru create Guru Angad from his limbs, or His fundamental Self. The meaning is not struggling at all. </p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">ਗੰਗ ਗੁਸਾਇਨਿ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">Gang gusāin gahir gambẖīr. </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">The mother Ganges is deep and profound.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">~SGGS Ji p. 1162</span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗੁ ਜਿਉ ਜਲਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">jal tharang jio jalehi samaaeiaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">As the waves of water merge again with the water, </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">ਤਿਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">thio jothee sang joth milaaeiaa ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">so does my light merge again into the Light.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">~SGGS Ji p. 102</span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>(<span style="color: Blue">ਉਦਵਿਅਉ</span>), from Sanskrit word Udvana, meaning "ud-vāna n. the going out." or "appearance." <a href="http://hu.wiktionary.org/wiki/Függelék:monier/u" target="_blank">Sir Monier-Williams-A Sanskrit-English Dictionary</a></p><p></p><p> Again, I acknowledge the translation is not exact, it is still saying the formless Unborn Lord (who is without form) <em>has gone out</em> (into the world, taken form "appearance.") It does not fundamentally alter the meaning of the Guru vaak. It is still talking about the nirguna which has become manifest in the sargun saroop of Guru Angad Ji. And if you want to split hairs, the proof of this is in Gurbani which expressly says (<span style="color: Blue">ਅਵਤਾਰ</span>), so that there is no doubt as to the meaning.</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">ਜਗ ਅਉਰੁ ਨ ਯਾਹਿ ਮਹਾ ਤਮ ਮੈ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ਉਜਾਗਰੁ ਆਨਿ ਕੀਅਉ ॥ </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">jag aour n yaahi mehaa tham mai <strong>avathaar</strong> oujaagar aan keeao ||</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">In the great darkness of this world, the Lord revealed Himself, incarnated as Guru Arjun.</span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Navy">~SGGS Ji p. 1409</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>So your allegation of "avataarvaad" being derived only from mistranslations and not being a part of Sikh teaching per Gurbani is false.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harjas Kaur Khalsa, post: 84569, member: 2125"] Veerji please, ([COLOR="Blue"]ਬਣਾਇਆ[/COLOR]), Banaia, from bana. Means same thing as roop or form. The vaak says the formless Lord took form as Guru Nanak. Why the hair-splitting? For the awkward grammatical construction of English language, translators used the word "assume" meaning ("to take on") form. It does not alter the meaning of the Guru vaak. The formless has still become the form of Guru Nanak per Gurbani. I believe the English construction of the sentence is saying, as the Ganges creates waves, waves being fundamentally a part of the Ganges river, in like manner did Guru create Guru Angad from his limbs, or His fundamental Self. The meaning is not struggling at all. [INDENT][COLOR="Teal"]ਗੰਗ ਗੁਸਾਇਨਿ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰ ॥ Gang gusāin gahir gambẖīr. The mother Ganges is deep and profound. ~SGGS Ji p. 1162[/COLOR][/INDENT] [INDENT][COLOR="Blue"]ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗੁ ਜਿਉ ਜਲਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ jal tharang jio jalehi samaaeiaa || As the waves of water merge again with the water, ਤਿਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥ thio jothee sang joth milaaeiaa || so does my light merge again into the Light. ~SGGS Ji p. 102[/COLOR][/INDENT] ([COLOR="Blue"]ਉਦਵਿਅਉ[/COLOR]), from Sanskrit word Udvana, meaning "ud-vāna n. the going out." or "appearance." [URL="http://hu.wiktionary.org/wiki/Függelék:monier/u"]Sir Monier-Williams-A Sanskrit-English Dictionary[/URL] Again, I acknowledge the translation is not exact, it is still saying the formless Unborn Lord (who is without form) [I]has gone out[/I] (into the world, taken form "appearance.") It does not fundamentally alter the meaning of the Guru vaak. It is still talking about the nirguna which has become manifest in the sargun saroop of Guru Angad Ji. And if you want to split hairs, the proof of this is in Gurbani which expressly says ([COLOR="Blue"]ਅਵਤਾਰ[/COLOR]), so that there is no doubt as to the meaning. [INDENT][COLOR="Navy"]ਜਗ ਅਉਰੁ ਨ ਯਾਹਿ ਮਹਾ ਤਮ ਮੈ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ਉਜਾਗਰੁ ਆਨਿ ਕੀਅਉ ॥ jag aour n yaahi mehaa tham mai [B]avathaar[/B] oujaagar aan keeao || In the great darkness of this world, the Lord revealed Himself, incarnated as Guru Arjun. ~SGGS Ji p. 1409[/COLOR][/INDENT] So your allegation of "avataarvaad" being derived only from mistranslations and not being a part of Sikh teaching per Gurbani is false. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top