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Guru Granth Sahib
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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc
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<blockquote data-quote="Harjas Kaur Khalsa" data-source="post: 84217" data-attributes="member: 2125"><p><strong>Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why oh why... for the 1 millionth time... does EVERYONE define Hindu religion, in contrast to Sikh self-definition, NOT according to philosophy but according to the worst social injustices and hypocritical excesses?</p><p></p><p>Seriously, if we are honest, and we were to judge Sikh spiritual teachings, not by the teachings themselves, but by the individual character flaws of the fools promoting the faith, we would also sound like these definitions of Hinduism. Is this not true? I can think of 3 Gurdwara's at the moment so full of scandal, drinking, ripping off sangat's money for personal use, etc. So what I keep trying to say is, let's be REASONABLE when interpreting Gurbani as it pertains to Hindu religion, not as if we ourselves are exempt from criticisms due to the increasing corruption of the age of Kalyug, but in context of Gurbani, where Guruji is NEVER condemned Hindu religion's actual teachings, but only the misinformed superficial, corrupted and egotistical practices. Gurbani is showing how we should ALL be authentic spiritual people and not ritualistic, superficial, hypocritical and corrupted.</p><p></p><p>Those criticisms are NOT a definition of Hindu teachings.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>LOL. Okay, a HINDU saint is saying the Hindu has no spiritual wisdom, and the Muslim has realized a little bit. And Namdev the HINDU knows more than both because he meditates on the Lord. This is ridiculous. </p><p></p><p>The shabad is saying the one who spends time meditating on the Lord regardless of religion is the one who gains spiritual wisdom.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes and if we didn't have brahmins to pick on we'd have to invent them because there's always SOMEBODY who thinks they're better than everybody else and all their flaws are bigger than the Himalayas. The point about brahmins is not intended to be interpreted as representative of putting down ALL Hindu religion as false, hypocritical and self-righteous. Guruji is showing us the bad example so we don't become like it. Unfortunately, too many Sikhs have interpreted that we ourselves should be the ones with kalank size of Himalayas who won't have anything to do with "Hindu religion." If it even touches us we have to go ballistic and pull out kirpan and go take a bath, hire nine scholars to refute even the slightest hint of it. For the record, the Vaishnav sants who wrote the bhagat bani were a revolution of authentic spirituality which OPPOSED the casteism of brahmin injustices. So the very spiritual reform of brahmin casteism came from within Hindu religion itself. Moreover, Sikhism is surely no comparative religion of difference by this standard as casteism is alive and well at Gurdwara.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Guru Nanak Dev ji did not refuse to wear the janeo because of it's ritualistic implications as fake worship. First, Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not of brahmin caste. What Guruji was rejecting at tender age was the brahmin wears a silk thread, the Kshatriya wears a cotton thread, and the Vaishya and shudras didn't get to wear a thread. So being a good VAISHNAV, he rejected that he should be unequal with others, as principle among Vaishnav philosophy was reform of the caste and varna system, from hereditary separatism, to authentic spiritual hierarchy. In keeping with Vaishnav sants, believed and taught that the REAL Brahmin was the one who is devoted to love of God, and not some hereditary fiefdom. Gurbani is not entirely against caste. It is against caste discrimination and hereditary distinctions.</p><p></p><p>So this is most certainly NOT any example of how Sikhism is different from Hindu religion per se.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Teal"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">jaanahu joth n pooshhahu jaathee aagai jaath n hae ||1|| rehaao ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Teal">~SGGS Ji p. 349</p><p></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Purple"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Purple">~SGGS Ji p. 747</p><p></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਆਸ੍ਰਮ ਹਹਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">braahaman khathree soodh vais chaar varan chaar aasram hehi jo har dhhiaavai so paradhhaan ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Blue">~SGGS Ji p. 861</p><p></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><p style="margin-left: 20px">ਆਪੇ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਵਰਨ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਲਇਆ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">aapae dhas ath varan oupaaeian aap breham aap raaj laeiaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain. </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸੇ ਕਰੇ ਦਇਆ ॥ </p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">aapae maarae aapae shhoddai aapae bakhasae karae dhaeiaa ||</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">He Himself kills, and He Himself redeems; He Himself, in His Kindness, forgives us. He is infallible</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">~SGGS Ji p. 553</p><p></span></p><p></p><p>Gurbani shows the relationship to Vaishnav teaching here. Caste system exists. God created it. But the caste system of hereditary injustice is incorrect, no one should be unjust because of caste. God is in all people without discrimination. No one should be discriminated against because of caste all are equal with respect to the teachings. The spiritual person of low caste becomes equal to an authentic brahmin. As a spiritual philosophy, this particular aspect of Sikhism is borrowed from the original "Hindu" Vaishnav reform movement.</p><p></p><p></p><p>LOL. To be honest, my attitude after spending a few years in Sikh sangat is exactly the same. Sikhs don't meditate on God either. But they should. Just like the Christians should. Nonetheless, despite the foolishness of the average person, including myself, a few holy people manage to evolve out of Christian and Sikh congregations.</p><p></p><p>Since it is a Christian tradition to jap the holy name of Jesus, Jesus for hours, not unlike the Sufi's Allah, Allah, or the Vaishnavs Raam, Raam, or the Sikh's Vaheguru, Vaheguru, I think it is possible for mind of SOME Christians to be purified if they are sincere and follow their spiritual teachings. All religions have become corrupted. But there are saints in all religions.</p><p></p><p>In fact, I'm reminded of a few holy people right now that I will share with you all. </p><p></p><p><img src="http://pro.posty.com/cathcards/gemma.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p>"I desire to become good whatsoever it may cost; take away, destroy, utterly root out all that You find in me contrary to Your holy will."</p><p>Stigmatist and victim soul, Saint Gemma Galgani</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKFbB_kqpDI" target="_blank">YouTube - If You Want Your Dream To Be ... [brother sun, sister moon]</a></p><p>The compassionate nonmaterialist Saint Francis of Assisi</p><p></p><p><img src="http://uvcarmel.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/st-therese-of-lisieux-2.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p>Dying of tuberculosis she said, "He has surpassed my expectations."</p><p>"I will spend my heaven doing good on earth."~Saint Therese of Lisieux</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leZ6t-1mVfs" target="_blank">YouTube - The Capuchin Sisters of Nazareth</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes! Gurbani says many kinds of the very same people Sikhs often misinterpret Gurbani as blindly condemning, on careful reading shows Gurbani regards as also highly spiritual. And this includes "Hindus."</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLIWobbmsY" target="_blank">YouTube - ammachi lokah samastah</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>No one's practice is hindered. There are 2 main types of yogic renunciation. One, using vibration of the hairs as a spiritual vehicle of amplifying Naam Gurmantra. And another of shaving the head to silence distractions. Both schools of thought have produced powerfully holy sants and God-realized jivanmuktas. Ordained women monks are called "nuns." LOL. Buddhists have nuns as well as monks. So do Christians. So do Hindus. And if you include Nirmala Panthis, so do Sikhs. About mankind becoming extinct is making up such an exaggeration. Buddhists as any other religious path which includes a celibate sannyasi teaching, also includes a householder component. It's far too oversimplified to create artificial distinctions this way. </p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaW4vOlfK5M" target="_blank">YouTube - Sister Nhu Nghiem - Sensuality & Bodhicitta</a></p><p>Buddhist nun <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>How can it be, that one of the characteristics which defines flaws of Hinduism, "idol-worship" is overlooked with Buddhists and Buddhism proclaimed to be a beautiful and spiritual religion? Wouldn't it be more likely, that both religions are beautiful and spiritual, but that the average person of any religion in Kaliyug is simply a poor representative of the best and highest teachings?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fact that the bhagats in Gurbani had purified their minds and become one with God <em><strong>outside</strong></em> of Sikh religion doesn't say anything about Sikh religion at all. In fact, close examination of the basic teachings of Sikh religion doesn't show any major dissimilarities with the predominate philosophy of Vaishnavism of the bhagats.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The bhagats were from 2 faiths, Vaishnava Vedanta and Vaishnav influenced Sufism. There were no strictly "Muslim" bhagats. Only Vaishnavs or Vaishnav influenced Sufis. The equality among castes, women and acceptance of Muslims and Allah as being a Naam of God was started by Vaishnavs. So these points alone do not illustrate fundamentals of any "new" Sikh religion.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For some political reason, Sikhs keep describing Sikhism in terms of how it's so much better than failed Hinduism. This is an injustice and not any correct interpretation of either Hinduism or what Guruji was actually teaching us. It's very clear reading the above passage that Guruji doesn't want His Sikhs, His disciples to fall into the path of corruption, far more than any presumed blanket condemnation of ALL Hindu religion. So many Sikhs today think ANY slightest association of Sikhism or Gurbani with anything remotely Hindu will make it unclean and corrupted and be exactly as intolerable as pakhandi babas and religious hypocrisy, oblivious to the fact that religious hypocrisy is rampant in Sikh institutions. So Sikhism can't be defined as "separate" from Hindu religion on the basis of the worst practices of the least spiritual people. We have the same exact kind of "least spiritual people" in our sangats and leadership...so what are we talking about?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with this assessment of who Guruji is, per Gurbani teaching as 100% correct. However, ALL religions were not created in the Kalyug. But ALL religions are falling down in the Kalyug.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, to jap, meditate and sing the praise of the Naam with bhakti and bhairaag, to practice dhyaan and Simran, to give dasvandh, to become a sevadar, to surrender to Guruji and ask for Guru's kirpa, this is the way to cleanse the defilements of mind and heart and wash away karams and sankalpas and obtain liberation. But this doesn't mean nobody besides a Sikh can obtain liberation.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes one can be detached and be a householder. But this is no condemnation of sannyasis. But emphasis on the ability to remain a householder is the message of Kaliyug, just as emphasis on renunciation was the message of previous ages. One is not advanced over the other, and one is not elevated while the other condemned. Both are equal paths of life where a person can attain the highest level of spirituality.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm still waiting to hear what the specific ideological differences which distinguish Sikhi as a religion utterly separate from Hinduism are.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is not the amrit-nectar talked about in Gurbani. So Khande Ki Pahul cannot be a spoke on the wheel of liberation. It is a spoke on the wheel of discipleship for the religious Sikhs. Since it stems from the tradition of Guru deekhya or diksha, and is the practice which subsumed charan pahul, Guru foot wash, nothing in this practice distinguishes Sikhism from Hindu religion which also has a tradition of Guru Deeksha.</p><p></p><p></p><p>True, a disciple must have a disciplined sadhana practice or the life and mind can never change. But rehit per se is not a spoke on the wheel of liberation, it is a spoke on the wheel of discipleship for the religious Sikh.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have already stated that Guruji is an avataar for the Kaliyug. And I have read those pauris of Gurbani which expressly state that Guruji is an avataar in the lineage of the Das Avataaras since it follows Gurbani praises the das avataaras as being the Lord God. So if the Nirguna is ONE, and Rama Chandra and NaraSingh and HarKrishan are all avataaras praised in Gurbani just like Guruji... then Gurbani has to include Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bhagavatum. Just by logic, you can't be God descended in one sargun form, and then God descended in another sargun form, and it's the same One God, but one message invalidates another. Truth never invalidates itself, it is eternal and unchanging.</p><p></p><p>Otherwise, we're twisting Gurbani to make it seem, only a Sikh can be saved, only a Sikh can obtain liberation. And thats patently untrue, since we know the Vaishnav and Sufi bhagats were God-realized before there was even a Guru Nanak. So this is obviously a misinterpretation. And if we accept that Guruji is an avtaar in the lineage of the 10 Vishnu avataars, we have to accept the spiritual legitimacy of the Vaishnav scriptures as Gurbani. Now, I'm not saying a Sikh has to read Bhagavad-Gita and recognize this as Guru Granth. A Sikh has Guru Granth as authoritative bani. But what this says is Guruji isn't the only Satguru. He is the only Satguru for Sikhs. And that is a powerful difference in meaning. Likewise Raam and HarKrishan are Satguru's for other people, and something like Bhagavad-Gita becomes Guru Granth for those other people. It is clear Gurbani has a message of spiritual inclusiveness here which accepts that the One nirgun God is pervading in all sargun forms and spiritual Lights such as avataars. But a Sikh cannot condemn a Vaishnav as not having a boat of mukti, since very legitimately for the Vaishnav, his Gurbani comes from the same avataar lineage. So for a Vaishnav, Bhagavad-Gita is as much a boat of mukti as Shri Guru Granth Sahib bani is a boat of mukti. We cannot delegitimize the spiritual path that produced God-realized bhagats and remain credible, when Guru has included their bani and given the Jyot of Guruship! So when we bow our heads, we bow to the Guru in the teachings of the wise God-realized bhagat bani, written by those who were never Sikhs. Powerful lesson! One does not have to become a Sikh <em>the way we define Sikh identity</em> to become God-realized. But Gurbani explains through inclusion of the das avataaras that there are those who are <em>disciples</em> of Guru in other religions, because what is Guru is not the sargun identity, but the Jyot of the One Supreme All-pervading God. But Gurbani teaches us certain ingredients are necessary. And the highest and easiest path of liberation in Kaliyug... is Naam and bhakti.</p><p></p><p>So we can clearly see that Gurbani per se, as modern Sikhs are defining it, is alone not the <em>only true religion</em> in some Abrahamic conception where we need to missionize the world in order to save them. The Path of Guru Nanak Dev Ji is of the very highest truths which have entered the world, with no error. Sikhism shares major doctrinal similarities with Vaishnav Hinduism and no clear points on which to hang the hat called "new and different religion." Additionally, if we analyze Naam, many Naams are given in Gurbani such as Shiva, Raam, HarKirashan, Parabrahm, Vasudeyv, Govinda, Gopala. And we cannot on basis of Naam, exclude Vaishnavas who jap these same Naams, or even Allah which Sufis jap, or even Shiva which Shaivites jap. So it is clear on basis of Naam, Guruji has made no distinction of independant identity where we can claim, "Sikhism is different." Rather, from these points we see, "Sikhism is inclusive." "Sikhism recognizes the reality of God in all religions."</p><p></p><p></p><p>The worship of the nirguna is not exclusive to Sikhism. Moreover the japping of Naams of sarguna in form of Vishnu avataars is a distinctly Vaishnav teaching. And praise of the sargun avataars is clearly expressed in Gurbani. So the part about "no human being" is not entirely clear. Guruji has explained that the sargun forms are impermananet and fade to dust, we worship the Timeless One who has no form, no birth, no death. YET, Gurbani categorically does not deny OR reject that sarguna in form of das avataaras ARE IN FACT manifestations of the ONE nirgun God. Again, there is no inconsistency with this teaching and Vaishnava Vedanta. So it singularly does not distinguish Sikhi, but rathers proves incredibly close relationship between Sikh spiritual philosophy and Hindu sect of Vaishnavism.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The merging of the atma with the Paramatma is the basic philosophy of the Vedas. In nearly every Dharmic tradition is this spiritual teaching. It is the essence of Mukti which is a Vedantic concept entirely un-unique to Sikhism. And it clearly distinguishes Sikhism from Abrahamic monotheism and puts it squarely in the ballpark of a faith with Hindu origins. As a Dharmic faith which believes in a God who is All-pervading, we don't have the anxiety of the monotheistic religions to "save the world." We recognize that God has given Light of His eternal truths in many forms throughout the world and throughout human history. Not all lights shine with complete brightness as Sikhi. But the Light and the guidance of the God is there, for everyone, because Guru is One Jyot with all these avataaras. So it can be said Guruji, having merged with the nirguna is also Jesus, is also Krishna. Why should we have anxiety over the spiritual status of other people? What we need is to become spiritual beings so we can bring blessings to a suffering world and shine Guru's Light from within ourselves as much as we can. Because the One Beloved lives in the heart of every human being, every person is my altar. Service to the world is my creed. But it is a service with no missionary character. No need for conversions. Only need to meet the needs. Bless the world with a generous heart, and you will be blessed. When we fail to shine as spiritual lights, it means the suffering continues. So we need as Sikhs, to be good soldiers to conquer the inner enemies so we can overpower outer tyrants and open doors of Light in a world of darkness. Then maybe some little child in some corner of the world won't have to cry and hurt, and he can dance and sing because we shined enough light to lift the darkness. That is the treasure of Guruji's spiritual message.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There is no flaw with Sikhi, as there is no flaw with Vedanta which is based on the original revealed Sruti given by nirgun God to the rishis at the dawn of recorded history. Sikhi is a faith which proclaims the truths of Vedanta as for origin and nature of reality, creation, sarguna and nirguna, samadhi, mukti, merging, Naam jap of Gurmantara, discipleship with a Satguru (and Guruji is obviously not the only one because Gurbani recognizes for different ages Raam and HarKrishan as Satguru as well). To say there is no faith like Sikhi is entirely innacurate and does a disservice to Hinduism which is so roundly condemned as hypocritical and corrupted at the beginning of this position paper.</p><p></p><p>There is, for the record, not one flaw in Sihki. There are however, a number of flaws in the way which it is being modernly interpreted. No less the major flaw of asserting Sikh uniqueness and independance from the Vaishnavism which so permeates every single reform and spiritual teaching of Gurbani itself. And Sikhism is not in any way, the One True Faith, like some Abrahamic creed. Sikhism teaches us that there is One God who manifests in the world in a way that will reach us. Just as there are different people, different minds, different cultures, different understandings, so are there different paths to the same eternal All-pervading Oneness. Don't worry so much about differences and identities. These things are passing away. They have to. It's their nature to pass away. But the light that shines hidden at the heart of things will never fade away. It can only burn brighter.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Purple"><p style="margin-left: 20px">"Life has no problems. Only man is in a bondage of his own making."~Murdo McBirney Baines</p><p></span><span style="color: Teal"><p style="margin-left: 20px">"All shall be well. All shall be well. And all manner of things shall be well; when the tongues of flame are enfolded into the crowned knot of fire and the fire and the rose are One." ~Julian of Norwich, quoted by T.S. Eliot</p><p></span></p><p>~Bhul chaak maaf karni ji</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harjas Kaur Khalsa, post: 84217, member: 2125"] [b]Re: Sikhism is not the same as Hinduism..or Islam, .....or Christianity.....etc[/b] Why oh why... for the 1 millionth time... does EVERYONE define Hindu religion, in contrast to Sikh self-definition, NOT according to philosophy but according to the worst social injustices and hypocritical excesses? Seriously, if we are honest, and we were to judge Sikh spiritual teachings, not by the teachings themselves, but by the individual character flaws of the fools promoting the faith, we would also sound like these definitions of Hinduism. Is this not true? I can think of 3 Gurdwara's at the moment so full of scandal, drinking, ripping off sangat's money for personal use, etc. So what I keep trying to say is, let's be REASONABLE when interpreting Gurbani as it pertains to Hindu religion, not as if we ourselves are exempt from criticisms due to the increasing corruption of the age of Kalyug, but in context of Gurbani, where Guruji is NEVER condemned Hindu religion's actual teachings, but only the misinformed superficial, corrupted and egotistical practices. Gurbani is showing how we should ALL be authentic spiritual people and not ritualistic, superficial, hypocritical and corrupted. Those criticisms are NOT a definition of Hindu teachings. LOL. Okay, a HINDU saint is saying the Hindu has no spiritual wisdom, and the Muslim has realized a little bit. And Namdev the HINDU knows more than both because he meditates on the Lord. This is ridiculous. The shabad is saying the one who spends time meditating on the Lord regardless of religion is the one who gains spiritual wisdom. Yes and if we didn't have brahmins to pick on we'd have to invent them because there's always SOMEBODY who thinks they're better than everybody else and all their flaws are bigger than the Himalayas. The point about brahmins is not intended to be interpreted as representative of putting down ALL Hindu religion as false, hypocritical and self-righteous. Guruji is showing us the bad example so we don't become like it. Unfortunately, too many Sikhs have interpreted that we ourselves should be the ones with kalank size of Himalayas who won't have anything to do with "Hindu religion." If it even touches us we have to go ballistic and pull out kirpan and go take a bath, hire nine scholars to refute even the slightest hint of it. For the record, the Vaishnav sants who wrote the bhagat bani were a revolution of authentic spirituality which OPPOSED the casteism of brahmin injustices. So the very spiritual reform of brahmin casteism came from within Hindu religion itself. Moreover, Sikhism is surely no comparative religion of difference by this standard as casteism is alive and well at Gurdwara. Guru Nanak Dev ji did not refuse to wear the janeo because of it's ritualistic implications as fake worship. First, Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not of brahmin caste. What Guruji was rejecting at tender age was the brahmin wears a silk thread, the Kshatriya wears a cotton thread, and the Vaishya and shudras didn't get to wear a thread. So being a good VAISHNAV, he rejected that he should be unequal with others, as principle among Vaishnav philosophy was reform of the caste and varna system, from hereditary separatism, to authentic spiritual hierarchy. In keeping with Vaishnav sants, believed and taught that the REAL Brahmin was the one who is devoted to love of God, and not some hereditary fiefdom. Gurbani is not entirely against caste. It is against caste discrimination and hereditary distinctions. So this is most certainly NOT any example of how Sikhism is different from Hindu religion per se. [COLOR="Teal"][indent]ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ jaanahu joth n pooshhahu jaathee aagai jaath n hae ||1|| rehaao || Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause|| ~SGGS Ji p. 349[/indent][/COLOR] [COLOR="Purple"][indent]ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa || The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings. ~SGGS Ji p. 747[/indent][/COLOR] [COLOR="Blue"][indent]ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਆਸ੍ਰਮ ਹਹਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥ braahaman khathree soodh vais chaar varan chaar aasram hehi jo har dhhiaavai so paradhhaan || There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned. ~SGGS Ji p. 861[/indent][/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkGreen"][indent]ਆਪੇ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਵਰਨ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਲਇਆ ॥ aapae dhas ath varan oupaaeian aap breham aap raaj laeiaa || He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain. ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸੇ ਕਰੇ ਦਇਆ ॥ aapae maarae aapae shhoddai aapae bakhasae karae dhaeiaa || He Himself kills, and He Himself redeems; He Himself, in His Kindness, forgives us. He is infallible ~SGGS Ji p. 553[/indent][/COLOR] Gurbani shows the relationship to Vaishnav teaching here. Caste system exists. God created it. But the caste system of hereditary injustice is incorrect, no one should be unjust because of caste. God is in all people without discrimination. No one should be discriminated against because of caste all are equal with respect to the teachings. The spiritual person of low caste becomes equal to an authentic brahmin. As a spiritual philosophy, this particular aspect of Sikhism is borrowed from the original "Hindu" Vaishnav reform movement. LOL. To be honest, my attitude after spending a few years in Sikh sangat is exactly the same. Sikhs don't meditate on God either. But they should. Just like the Christians should. Nonetheless, despite the foolishness of the average person, including myself, a few holy people manage to evolve out of Christian and Sikh congregations. Since it is a Christian tradition to jap the holy name of Jesus, Jesus for hours, not unlike the Sufi's Allah, Allah, or the Vaishnavs Raam, Raam, or the Sikh's Vaheguru, Vaheguru, I think it is possible for mind of SOME Christians to be purified if they are sincere and follow their spiritual teachings. All religions have become corrupted. But there are saints in all religions. In fact, I'm reminded of a few holy people right now that I will share with you all. [IMG]http://pro.posty.com/cathcards/gemma.jpg[/IMG] "I desire to become good whatsoever it may cost; take away, destroy, utterly root out all that You find in me contrary to Your holy will." Stigmatist and victim soul, Saint Gemma Galgani [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKFbB_kqpDI"]YouTube - If You Want Your Dream To Be ... [brother sun, sister moon][/url] The compassionate nonmaterialist Saint Francis of Assisi [IMG]http://uvcarmel.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/st-therese-of-lisieux-2.jpg[/IMG] Dying of tuberculosis she said, "He has surpassed my expectations." "I will spend my heaven doing good on earth."~Saint Therese of Lisieux [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leZ6t-1mVfs"]YouTube - The Capuchin Sisters of Nazareth[/url] Yes! Gurbani says many kinds of the very same people Sikhs often misinterpret Gurbani as blindly condemning, on careful reading shows Gurbani regards as also highly spiritual. And this includes "Hindus." [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLIWobbmsY"]YouTube - ammachi lokah samastah[/url] No one's practice is hindered. There are 2 main types of yogic renunciation. One, using vibration of the hairs as a spiritual vehicle of amplifying Naam Gurmantra. And another of shaving the head to silence distractions. Both schools of thought have produced powerfully holy sants and God-realized jivanmuktas. Ordained women monks are called "nuns." LOL. Buddhists have nuns as well as monks. So do Christians. So do Hindus. And if you include Nirmala Panthis, so do Sikhs. About mankind becoming extinct is making up such an exaggeration. Buddhists as any other religious path which includes a celibate sannyasi teaching, also includes a householder component. It's far too oversimplified to create artificial distinctions this way. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaW4vOlfK5M"]YouTube - Sister Nhu Nghiem - Sensuality & Bodhicitta[/url] Buddhist nun :p How can it be, that one of the characteristics which defines flaws of Hinduism, "idol-worship" is overlooked with Buddhists and Buddhism proclaimed to be a beautiful and spiritual religion? Wouldn't it be more likely, that both religions are beautiful and spiritual, but that the average person of any religion in Kaliyug is simply a poor representative of the best and highest teachings? The fact that the bhagats in Gurbani had purified their minds and become one with God [I][B]outside[/B][/I] of Sikh religion doesn't say anything about Sikh religion at all. In fact, close examination of the basic teachings of Sikh religion doesn't show any major dissimilarities with the predominate philosophy of Vaishnavism of the bhagats. The bhagats were from 2 faiths, Vaishnava Vedanta and Vaishnav influenced Sufism. There were no strictly "Muslim" bhagats. Only Vaishnavs or Vaishnav influenced Sufis. The equality among castes, women and acceptance of Muslims and Allah as being a Naam of God was started by Vaishnavs. So these points alone do not illustrate fundamentals of any "new" Sikh religion. For some political reason, Sikhs keep describing Sikhism in terms of how it's so much better than failed Hinduism. This is an injustice and not any correct interpretation of either Hinduism or what Guruji was actually teaching us. It's very clear reading the above passage that Guruji doesn't want His Sikhs, His disciples to fall into the path of corruption, far more than any presumed blanket condemnation of ALL Hindu religion. So many Sikhs today think ANY slightest association of Sikhism or Gurbani with anything remotely Hindu will make it unclean and corrupted and be exactly as intolerable as pakhandi babas and religious hypocrisy, oblivious to the fact that religious hypocrisy is rampant in Sikh institutions. So Sikhism can't be defined as "separate" from Hindu religion on the basis of the worst practices of the least spiritual people. We have the same exact kind of "least spiritual people" in our sangats and leadership...so what are we talking about? I agree with this assessment of who Guruji is, per Gurbani teaching as 100% correct. However, ALL religions were not created in the Kalyug. But ALL religions are falling down in the Kalyug. Yes, to jap, meditate and sing the praise of the Naam with bhakti and bhairaag, to practice dhyaan and Simran, to give dasvandh, to become a sevadar, to surrender to Guruji and ask for Guru's kirpa, this is the way to cleanse the defilements of mind and heart and wash away karams and sankalpas and obtain liberation. But this doesn't mean nobody besides a Sikh can obtain liberation. Yes one can be detached and be a householder. But this is no condemnation of sannyasis. But emphasis on the ability to remain a householder is the message of Kaliyug, just as emphasis on renunciation was the message of previous ages. One is not advanced over the other, and one is not elevated while the other condemned. Both are equal paths of life where a person can attain the highest level of spirituality. I'm still waiting to hear what the specific ideological differences which distinguish Sikhi as a religion utterly separate from Hinduism are. This is not the amrit-nectar talked about in Gurbani. So Khande Ki Pahul cannot be a spoke on the wheel of liberation. It is a spoke on the wheel of discipleship for the religious Sikhs. Since it stems from the tradition of Guru deekhya or diksha, and is the practice which subsumed charan pahul, Guru foot wash, nothing in this practice distinguishes Sikhism from Hindu religion which also has a tradition of Guru Deeksha. True, a disciple must have a disciplined sadhana practice or the life and mind can never change. But rehit per se is not a spoke on the wheel of liberation, it is a spoke on the wheel of discipleship for the religious Sikh. You have already stated that Guruji is an avataar for the Kaliyug. And I have read those pauris of Gurbani which expressly state that Guruji is an avataar in the lineage of the Das Avataaras since it follows Gurbani praises the das avataaras as being the Lord God. So if the Nirguna is ONE, and Rama Chandra and NaraSingh and HarKrishan are all avataaras praised in Gurbani just like Guruji... then Gurbani has to include Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bhagavatum. Just by logic, you can't be God descended in one sargun form, and then God descended in another sargun form, and it's the same One God, but one message invalidates another. Truth never invalidates itself, it is eternal and unchanging. Otherwise, we're twisting Gurbani to make it seem, only a Sikh can be saved, only a Sikh can obtain liberation. And thats patently untrue, since we know the Vaishnav and Sufi bhagats were God-realized before there was even a Guru Nanak. So this is obviously a misinterpretation. And if we accept that Guruji is an avtaar in the lineage of the 10 Vishnu avataars, we have to accept the spiritual legitimacy of the Vaishnav scriptures as Gurbani. Now, I'm not saying a Sikh has to read Bhagavad-Gita and recognize this as Guru Granth. A Sikh has Guru Granth as authoritative bani. But what this says is Guruji isn't the only Satguru. He is the only Satguru for Sikhs. And that is a powerful difference in meaning. Likewise Raam and HarKrishan are Satguru's for other people, and something like Bhagavad-Gita becomes Guru Granth for those other people. It is clear Gurbani has a message of spiritual inclusiveness here which accepts that the One nirgun God is pervading in all sargun forms and spiritual Lights such as avataars. But a Sikh cannot condemn a Vaishnav as not having a boat of mukti, since very legitimately for the Vaishnav, his Gurbani comes from the same avataar lineage. So for a Vaishnav, Bhagavad-Gita is as much a boat of mukti as Shri Guru Granth Sahib bani is a boat of mukti. We cannot delegitimize the spiritual path that produced God-realized bhagats and remain credible, when Guru has included their bani and given the Jyot of Guruship! So when we bow our heads, we bow to the Guru in the teachings of the wise God-realized bhagat bani, written by those who were never Sikhs. Powerful lesson! One does not have to become a Sikh [I]the way we define Sikh identity[/I] to become God-realized. But Gurbani explains through inclusion of the das avataaras that there are those who are [I]disciples[/I] of Guru in other religions, because what is Guru is not the sargun identity, but the Jyot of the One Supreme All-pervading God. But Gurbani teaches us certain ingredients are necessary. And the highest and easiest path of liberation in Kaliyug... is Naam and bhakti. So we can clearly see that Gurbani per se, as modern Sikhs are defining it, is alone not the [I]only true religion[/I] in some Abrahamic conception where we need to missionize the world in order to save them. The Path of Guru Nanak Dev Ji is of the very highest truths which have entered the world, with no error. Sikhism shares major doctrinal similarities with Vaishnav Hinduism and no clear points on which to hang the hat called "new and different religion." Additionally, if we analyze Naam, many Naams are given in Gurbani such as Shiva, Raam, HarKirashan, Parabrahm, Vasudeyv, Govinda, Gopala. And we cannot on basis of Naam, exclude Vaishnavas who jap these same Naams, or even Allah which Sufis jap, or even Shiva which Shaivites jap. So it is clear on basis of Naam, Guruji has made no distinction of independant identity where we can claim, "Sikhism is different." Rather, from these points we see, "Sikhism is inclusive." "Sikhism recognizes the reality of God in all religions." The worship of the nirguna is not exclusive to Sikhism. Moreover the japping of Naams of sarguna in form of Vishnu avataars is a distinctly Vaishnav teaching. And praise of the sargun avataars is clearly expressed in Gurbani. So the part about "no human being" is not entirely clear. Guruji has explained that the sargun forms are impermananet and fade to dust, we worship the Timeless One who has no form, no birth, no death. YET, Gurbani categorically does not deny OR reject that sarguna in form of das avataaras ARE IN FACT manifestations of the ONE nirgun God. Again, there is no inconsistency with this teaching and Vaishnava Vedanta. So it singularly does not distinguish Sikhi, but rathers proves incredibly close relationship between Sikh spiritual philosophy and Hindu sect of Vaishnavism. The merging of the atma with the Paramatma is the basic philosophy of the Vedas. In nearly every Dharmic tradition is this spiritual teaching. It is the essence of Mukti which is a Vedantic concept entirely un-unique to Sikhism. And it clearly distinguishes Sikhism from Abrahamic monotheism and puts it squarely in the ballpark of a faith with Hindu origins. As a Dharmic faith which believes in a God who is All-pervading, we don't have the anxiety of the monotheistic religions to "save the world." We recognize that God has given Light of His eternal truths in many forms throughout the world and throughout human history. Not all lights shine with complete brightness as Sikhi. But the Light and the guidance of the God is there, for everyone, because Guru is One Jyot with all these avataaras. So it can be said Guruji, having merged with the nirguna is also Jesus, is also Krishna. Why should we have anxiety over the spiritual status of other people? What we need is to become spiritual beings so we can bring blessings to a suffering world and shine Guru's Light from within ourselves as much as we can. Because the One Beloved lives in the heart of every human being, every person is my altar. Service to the world is my creed. But it is a service with no missionary character. No need for conversions. Only need to meet the needs. Bless the world with a generous heart, and you will be blessed. When we fail to shine as spiritual lights, it means the suffering continues. So we need as Sikhs, to be good soldiers to conquer the inner enemies so we can overpower outer tyrants and open doors of Light in a world of darkness. Then maybe some little child in some corner of the world won't have to cry and hurt, and he can dance and sing because we shined enough light to lift the darkness. That is the treasure of Guruji's spiritual message. There is no flaw with Sikhi, as there is no flaw with Vedanta which is based on the original revealed Sruti given by nirgun God to the rishis at the dawn of recorded history. Sikhi is a faith which proclaims the truths of Vedanta as for origin and nature of reality, creation, sarguna and nirguna, samadhi, mukti, merging, Naam jap of Gurmantara, discipleship with a Satguru (and Guruji is obviously not the only one because Gurbani recognizes for different ages Raam and HarKrishan as Satguru as well). To say there is no faith like Sikhi is entirely innacurate and does a disservice to Hinduism which is so roundly condemned as hypocritical and corrupted at the beginning of this position paper. There is, for the record, not one flaw in Sihki. There are however, a number of flaws in the way which it is being modernly interpreted. No less the major flaw of asserting Sikh uniqueness and independance from the Vaishnavism which so permeates every single reform and spiritual teaching of Gurbani itself. And Sikhism is not in any way, the One True Faith, like some Abrahamic creed. Sikhism teaches us that there is One God who manifests in the world in a way that will reach us. Just as there are different people, different minds, different cultures, different understandings, so are there different paths to the same eternal All-pervading Oneness. Don't worry so much about differences and identities. These things are passing away. They have to. It's their nature to pass away. But the light that shines hidden at the heart of things will never fade away. It can only burn brighter. [COLOR="Purple"][indent]"Life has no problems. Only man is in a bondage of his own making."~Murdo McBirney Baines[/indent][/COLOR] [COLOR="Teal"][indent]"All shall be well. All shall be well. And all manner of things shall be well; when the tongues of flame are enfolded into the crowned knot of fire and the fire and the rose are One." ~Julian of Norwich, quoted by T.S. Eliot[/indent][/COLOR] ~Bhul chaak maaf karni ji [/QUOTE]
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Sikhism Is Not The Same As Hinduism, Islam Or Christianity Etc
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