Did this Sikh girl simply get what she deserved for her stupidity? This article was written by a nonSikh doctor.
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Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?
- Thread starter Neutral Singh
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Totalyy agree with u Baljeet.....SSA
This is the time there is no other today.... whatever we have to do... start from today.... Feel lucky to Sikh.. and have strong believe in it....
SSA Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh
Amandeep Kaur
SPNer
- Dec 6, 2006
- 15
- 3
dalsingh
What a ridiculous and racist thing to say. I assume by "her stupidity" you mean that she trusted a Muslim man? I just have no words to begin to convey how wrong what you said is.
It's not the girl that looks stupid to me.
What a ridiculous and racist thing to say. I assume by "her stupidity" you mean that she trusted a Muslim man? I just have no words to begin to convey how wrong what you said is.
It's not the girl that looks stupid to me.
She seems pretty dumb to me Amandeep.........
It's not like people aren't generally aware of the issues between some Pakistanis and Sikhs and she still chose one as her boyfriend...hmmm....good choice girl.....look where it got her...
Don't be misled, she isn't the first by far......as far as I'm concerned if after all Sikh guys have done and sacrificed her to make the sisters aware of whats going on they still willingly chose to try out that Heer Ranjha ****, then they only have themselves to blame.
Why should we end up in prison (like many Sikh guys have over **** like this in the U.K.), over a dumbass sellout?
If she had ANY love for her roots she wouldn't be screwing around with the guy anyway. Probably saw some muscles and got all excited...poor girl
It's not like people aren't generally aware of the issues between some Pakistanis and Sikhs and she still chose one as her boyfriend...hmmm....good choice girl.....look where it got her...
Don't be misled, she isn't the first by far......as far as I'm concerned if after all Sikh guys have done and sacrificed her to make the sisters aware of whats going on they still willingly chose to try out that Heer Ranjha ****, then they only have themselves to blame.
Why should we end up in prison (like many Sikh guys have over **** like this in the U.K.), over a dumbass sellout?
If she had ANY love for her roots she wouldn't be screwing around with the guy anyway. Probably saw some muscles and got all excited...poor girl
Amandeep Kaur
SPNer
- Dec 6, 2006
- 15
- 3
People are people no matter what religion they are born into. It is wrong to stereotype them. If there is anything to learn from Gurbani, it is that all people are created equal, regardless of where they come from and that there are many paths to God and living a godly life. Being born Muslim does not make you a criminal or an abusive person any more than being born a Sikh means you will be a saint. And being able to embrace people of other faiths in this way is part of what makes having Sikh roots so unique.
It seems you could also read up a little bit on how the Guru's believed women were equal to men. Your comment about how she "probably saw some muscles and got all excited" shows that your attitudes towards women and the complexity of their beings are little better than the man that poor girl was with. And women are not emptyheaded things to be protected and it is foolish to imply that only men make sacrifices and women just walk around stupidly until "sikh guys...make [them] aware" of what is going on.
It seems you are very proud of being a Sikh, but don't embrace what it actually means. It's not just a heritage, it's a religion with actual meaning. Why don't you try practicing some of that tolerance and compassion that our Gurus spent their lives teaching.
Anybody who can blindly stereotype an entire group of people as bad, evil, or stupid has already made the first step towards the terrorism and violence that creates this enmity. Dehumanizing other people is the first step in your heart that allows you to think it is okay to step all over others, to demean them, to abuse them, to kill them. If you think that you are doing this in defense of Sikhism, then you have missed the entire point of what it is you are trying to defend.
It seems you could also read up a little bit on how the Guru's believed women were equal to men. Your comment about how she "probably saw some muscles and got all excited" shows that your attitudes towards women and the complexity of their beings are little better than the man that poor girl was with. And women are not emptyheaded things to be protected and it is foolish to imply that only men make sacrifices and women just walk around stupidly until "sikh guys...make [them] aware" of what is going on.
It seems you are very proud of being a Sikh, but don't embrace what it actually means. It's not just a heritage, it's a religion with actual meaning. Why don't you try practicing some of that tolerance and compassion that our Gurus spent their lives teaching.
Anybody who can blindly stereotype an entire group of people as bad, evil, or stupid has already made the first step towards the terrorism and violence that creates this enmity. Dehumanizing other people is the first step in your heart that allows you to think it is okay to step all over others, to demean them, to abuse them, to kill them. If you think that you are doing this in defense of Sikhism, then you have missed the entire point of what it is you are trying to defend.
i see all kinds of remarks happening now and also for the last thousands years for the couple who fall in love regardless of the differences of relegions or race where one is coming from.. when as a teen or older folks fall in love one do not see the relegion or colors of the person. love is a God. period. For any kind of love one needs to sacrifice. imagin a person who fall in love knowingly about what relegion they come from is not only for the musles or other attractions but to be togethere regardless of back ground. it defenily hurt the community by witnessing the meeting person who is moslim whose ancestors did great damages to indian citizen but this is not a two people's fault to be deprive of the natural feelings.
come to sikhiism our first teaching is to consider no difference among human no matter what relegion or race they have come from."EK NOOR TO SAB JAG OPJEIA ,KON BHALE KON MANDE" we just read but with our own weeknes to follow the principals of sikhism we start hating or critisizing others who are taking a true meaning of Guru's teaching.
love conqures all as they say. wrong followers of many relegion has caused more massecare including moslims ,christian or other relegions than what their messager expressed in their holy books.so let us be more acceptable to our Guru's teaching than our personal feelings and open a gate of love and understanding that we are all one than teaching hatred in the minds of our childrens to be exactly what our relegion teaching us.that is where the world is going no matter how much you can stop by repeating the past and it will be better world when all these barrier created by our false followers of real teaching of Guru. imagin for one moments what so called "shooders cast" gone through and bore discrimination of all kinds in india since last few centuries if you do? your will be shocked to extreem.now today things are btter when Gandhi changed thier name as HARIGENS . God's childrens.so understand than to be understood please.
jaspi
come to sikhiism our first teaching is to consider no difference among human no matter what relegion or race they have come from."EK NOOR TO SAB JAG OPJEIA ,KON BHALE KON MANDE" we just read but with our own weeknes to follow the principals of sikhism we start hating or critisizing others who are taking a true meaning of Guru's teaching.
love conqures all as they say. wrong followers of many relegion has caused more massecare including moslims ,christian or other relegions than what their messager expressed in their holy books.so let us be more acceptable to our Guru's teaching than our personal feelings and open a gate of love and understanding that we are all one than teaching hatred in the minds of our childrens to be exactly what our relegion teaching us.that is where the world is going no matter how much you can stop by repeating the past and it will be better world when all these barrier created by our false followers of real teaching of Guru. imagin for one moments what so called "shooders cast" gone through and bore discrimination of all kinds in india since last few centuries if you do? your will be shocked to extreem.now today things are btter when Gandhi changed thier name as HARIGENS . God's childrens.so understand than to be understood please.
jaspi
dear amandeep
women are not fools but they much are more emotional than men that's why some men do take advantage of this.i have a question to you and all sikh girls that in 99% cases when they marry in other religion why they just leave sikhism.they don't even make their kids sikhs.is sikhism such a burden on them that they just want to get out of this.on the other hand when sikh boys marry girls of other religions they don't leave their religion they make
their kids sikh.why can't sikh girls firmly say to their non sikh boyfriends that they are not going to convert and they will make their kids sikh.
dear jaspi
in 90% cases it is not love but just plain attraction.tell me why majority of time love happens between handsome men and beautiful women.is love resereved for handsome men and beautiful women.also please tell me why love marriages are less successful than arranged marriages.
thanks.kds. please understand thier is a great differences in infatuation and love. apart from them i am talking about love regardless of any one's look or differences.
also when both get married from diffrent sect then the childern must be sikg and moslem. just good human being . jaspi
dear jaspi
your posts are too much theoritical rather than practical.the fact is one person cannot be muslim and a sikh at a time.according to islam mohammed was last prophet and nobody could speak divine words after it.and sikhs beleive that our guru's spoke divine words. if one parent will teach kid that mohammed was last prophet and other parent will teach kids that guru granth sahib is living guru so children will grow up in confused environment rather than religious environ ment.
So you think the girl done a good thing by opening her mind and embracing this twit into her life? Is this what you think the Guru's meant by respecting others? You may be being naieve and simplistic. On the ground level, when you get away from all your idealism all sorts of dark nonsense is going on. It is a fact that some members of other communities are targeting Sikh girls because they have a reputation (in the U.K. at least) that is not very positive and that I do not want to repeat here. They generally have good reason for the stereotype as the girls seem to fall for the same nonsense again and again. What are you doing to help?
Look those girls are plain dumb. It is usually obvious to everyone around them that they are in a bad situation but they refuse to listen until it is too late. I don't see Jewish women having this problem. Why us? What is making them particularly target Sikh girls.....the answer is an ugly truth that we have to face up in order to solve in my opinion. As sad as it is.
I think you are living in lala land. Sikh history isn't just limited to our great Gurus. There are lessons to learn throughout. Those Khalsa warriors in the 1700s weren't the "lets all be friends with everyone" type your suggesting. They sacrificed in droves and gave us freedom. They drew lines when required and protected them. And READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY because I think you are missing something REALLY IMPORTANT. I'm NOT the one who is trying to ruin girls from other races...DO YOU GET THAT? Before you start pointing your finger and getting all emotional remember this is something that sections of certain other communities have been doing for some time now. Take that in your pipe and smoke it.
Now I think you really need to study your history carefully. Sikhs weren't the ones going around and taking peoplees religious freedoms away, murdering children and women, making slaves etc. You know let me tell you one other thing...ALL of the many dumbass girls I've seen who've ended up getting screwed in one way or another like this, have ALL come out with EXACTLY the same bollox that you are repeating. Thank Waheguru you're not here.
Look are you simple? People are doing stuff like that to our people and you sit around condemning me!!!!
no kds. you misunderstood me . i mean neither girl or boy has to convert their relegion if they do not want to . each one can practice thier own faith . and let the children be taught in one pholosphy being one God.that is where human will learn the stern lesson that there is no God in the world just one God as sikhi preaches as well as islam. all human must believe in one God.so no lable needed . no more fight but mutual love and respect. no one relegion make you fight with each others because one is superior than the others.
since we are so devided by mullah and priest in differen interpretaion of our holy books it will take may be another 100 year to come to that level of understading.
jaspi
Amandeep Kaur
SPNer
- Dec 6, 2006
- 15
- 3
People doing stuff like that to _any_ people is wrong. As a Sikh, you should recognize all people as "your people."
If you want to talk about helping people, calling them stupid and naive, condemning them, telling them they are getting what they deserve only drives them away from safety, help, and truth.
Women warriors sacrificed just like men did. And they were of the let's be friends with everyone type. They just defended themselves when others were attacking them. The Sikhs were peaceful. They simply didn't lie down and die when told to. I don't consider the writings in the SGGS to be "bollox" and they are what dictate my views. It is plain that hatred breeds only more hatred and all violence is born of hatred. If you want to make a better world, you can only start by controlling yourself.
And if what you say is true about the condition of young Sikh girls in the UK, then treating them like **** from our side certainly isn't going to fix anything. If anything, it gives them more of a reason to run away from men like yourself.
I don't delude myself into thinking that Sikhs are always good and kind. The Sikhs have suffered a lot of injustice, it's true. But Sikhs have also killed innocent people, mistakenly believing that their actions were right. In the end, people are people. Men are men. Women are women. And one does not have to be a Sikh to be virtuous. One does not have to not be a Sikh to be scum.
If I let go of my ideals and don't keep believing in the potential for good in people, then I cannot help create a better world. Violent, hateful words, violent, hateful actions, violent, hateful thoughts make problems worse. I cannot change the world and the people in it by hating it and hating them and giving them a reason to want to hurt me. So as for what I'm doing to make it better? I am trying my best to be the kind of person I want to believe in. I'm not perfect, but I try to do right by everybody. I try to be open to help people that need help. I try not to toss others aside as though they do not contain the same complexity and depth that I do. And I try to believe that everyone has the potential to be the kind of person I want to live with in the world. If no one keeps that door open, then it will close. If that is lala land, I'd rather live there.
If I kill a Muslim today, he will only come and kill my children tomorrow. And then one day, my children may go kill his innocent children as well. Violence fixes nothing. Violence on any level - even mental - closes doors. The reason that Sikhs believe Muslims are bad is because of the violence associated with our history with them. If you commit that same violence and if you act in hatred, you cannot claim to be better.
You may not be trying to ruin girls of other races, but you certainly have been demeaning to a girl of your own race. I am not simply "getting all emotional" as you say. That's a cute accusation to make, one that rests on unfavorable stereotypes of female weakness. I am, in fact, capable of reading. You don't need to use CAPITAL LETTERS to make sure that I can see it. And I would take that in my pipe and smoke it, except I don't smoke. But I guess you just said that to be unkind. But congratulations, you really made yourself look better than me. Nobody is to be respected more than someone who tries to put others down, right? It must just be my silly, empathic, womanly weakness that makes me "naive and simplistic" in respecting others and giving them the benefit of the doubt until they give me a reason based on their own actions to condemn them. I'm sure some day I'll find a good man who can protect me from myself and put me down until I learn to hate the people he tells me to hate.
Any girl who accepts an abuser into her life has a problem and has made a bad decision. But don't pretend that all abusive men are Muslims or that no Sikhs are abusive men. Then it would you who was being naive. Certainly, the Gurus did not mean for people to put themselves in bad situations when they taught respect for other people. But they did mean that you should not put people into classes based upon their religion, because all religions can be a path to enlightenment, to virtue. Some of the SGGS was written by Muslims. The first stone of the Golden Temple was laid by a Muslim. Ranjit Singh, the last king of Punjab, married a Muslim woman. If someone is targeting people as Sikhs as people to persecute that is wrong. It is wrong to target people because they are black; it is wrong to target or demean people because you believe they are of a lower caste than you are. It is wrong to target people because they are Muslim. _All_ people are equal. _All_ people are children of God. This is what being a Sikh is about and it is these concepts that Sikhs died defending, not just themselves. Sikhs died for freedom and the belief of equality - not just for Sikh people. To demean others in the name of Sikhism is an insult to the principles they died for. People aren't Sikh because they are born to Sikh parents. It is the way that you act that makes you a Sikh. Sikhism is in your heart, not your skin, your blood, or how you dress. If you are proud of your heritage, you should embrace the teachings that make it unique.
Here is some "bollox" for you.
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
pa-orhee.
Pauree:
ਵਵਾ ਵੈਰੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਐ ਕਾਹੂ ॥
ववा वैरु न करीऐ काहू ॥
vavaa vair na karee-ai kaahoo.
WAWWA: Do not harbor hatred against anyone.
ਘਟ ਘਟ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਮਾਹੂ ॥
घट घट अंतरि ब्रहम समाहू ॥
ghat ghat antar barahm samaahoo.
In each and every heart, God is contained.
-SGGS, page 259
ਰਾਹ ਦੋਵੈ ਇਕੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ਸਿਝਸੀ ॥
राह दोवै इकु जाणै सोई सिझसी ॥
raah dovai ik jaanai so-ee sijhsee.
One who recognizes that all spiritual paths lead to the One shall be emancipated.
- Guru Nanak Dev, SGGS, page 142
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਤਰੀ ਬੂਝੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੪॥
घटि घटि जोति निरंतरी बूझै गुरमति सारु ॥४॥
ghat ghat jot nirantree boojhai gurmat saar. ||4||
One who sees that Light within each and every heart understands the Essence of the Guru's Teachings. ||4||
- Guru Nanak Dev, SGGS, page 20
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਏਕ ॥
हिंदू तुरक का साहिबु एक ॥
hindoo turak kaa saahib ayk.
Hindus and Muslims have the same One Lord and Master.
- Devotee Kabir, SGGS, page 1158
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਏਕੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰੇ ॥੪॥
घटि घटि एकु वरतदा जलि थलि महीअलि पूरे ॥४॥
ghat ghat ayk varatdaa jal thal mahee-al pooray. ||4||
In each and every heart, the One Lord is pervading. He is totally permeating the water, the land, and the sky. ||4||
- Guru Arjan Dev, SGGS, page 133
ਕਾਹੇ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਵਹੁ ਵੈਰਿ ਵਾਦਿ ॥੨॥
काहे जनमु गवावहु वैरि वादि ॥२॥
kaahay janam gavaavahu vair vaad. ||2||
Why waste your life in hatred, vengeance and conflict? ||2||
- Guru Amar Das, SGGS, Page 1176
ਮਃ ੪ ॥
मः ४ ॥
mehlaa 4.
Fourth Mehl:
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆ ਸਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
सतिगुरु दाता दइआलु है जिस नो दइआ सदा होइ ॥
satgur daataa da-i-aal hai jis no da-i-aa sadaa ho-ay.
The True Guru is the Merciful Giver; He is always compassionate.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਇਕੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
सतिगुरु अंदरहु निरवैरु है सभु देखै ब्रहमु इकु सोइ ॥
satgur andrahu nirvair hai sabh daykhai barahm ik so-ay.
The True Guru has no hatred within Him; He beholds the One God everywhere.
ਨਿਰਵੈਰਾ ਨਾਲਿ ਜਿ ਵੈਰੁ ਚਲਾਇਦੇ ਤਿਨ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਤਿਸਟਿਆ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
निरवैरा नालि जि वैरु चलाइदे तिन विचहु तिसटिआ न कोइ ॥
nirvairaa naal je vair chalaa-iday tin vichahu tisti-aa na ko-ay.
Anyone who directs hate against the One who has no hate, shall never be satisfied within.
- SGGS, page 302
WJKK WJKF
KDS1980 Ji
Although I am married (to a Sikh), my theory on this is that when a girl gets married to someone of another faith, more than likely she is disowned by her own parents. Therefore if she then lives with her husband she may adopt his faith.
Dal Singh Ji
I know what Muslim men think of us and how we are an easy target for them. Ok let assume for a minute girls are dumb, what are the Sikh men doing that are turning Sikh girls to date Muslim men? As you said only we seem to have this problem. Even if we face up to it, how are we going to solve it?
The problem is that many of the younger generation is not in touch with their roots. Muslims are taught at a young age to read the Quran and about Islam. Sikh parents have come over here to work all hours God sent to help us succeed in life. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. My parents never taught me about Sikhism, but now I am adult and I will learn myself. As a community we need to become stronger.
KDS1980 Ji
Although I am married (to a Sikh), my theory on this is that when a girl gets married to someone of another faith, more than likely she is disowned by her own parents. Therefore if she then lives with her husband she may adopt his faith.
Dal Singh Ji
I know what Muslim men think of us and how we are an easy target for them. Ok let assume for a minute girls are dumb, what are the Sikh men doing that are turning Sikh girls to date Muslim men? As you said only we seem to have this problem. Even if we face up to it, how are we going to solve it?
Veer Ji, surely don't believe this do you....if you did then maybe all Sikh men should spend more time at the gym and less time in the pub.
The problem is that many of the younger generation is not in touch with their roots. Muslims are taught at a young age to read the Quran and about Islam. Sikh parents have come over here to work all hours God sent to help us succeed in life. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. My parents never taught me about Sikhism, but now I am adult and I will learn myself. As a community we need to become stronger.
dear mkaur ji
this is not true.in india a lot of sikh girls marry hindu's and majority of them are never disowned by their parents.my own cousin sister married a hindu and she has 2 daughters.my cousin was once very religious but now she cuts her hair her daughters though very small don't have any sikh names and also have cut hairs.on the other hand my other chacha is married to hindu woman and their children are now sikhs.sometimes i feel despite giving freedom to girls sikhism is just a burden on girls that's why they just abandon it easily.why can't they firmly say to their non sikh boyfriends that " i will make my children sikhs if you agree with it then it is fine or you go your way and i am going my way"
Look, I'm not for minute saying that all Sikh girls are dumb. I've met so many that are loyal to their roots and are an asset to the quam.
What I am saying is that certain girls are acting in a stupid way by involving themselves with guys that obviously hate Sikhs and that use the girls to make some sort of pathetic strike at the panth.
It isn't right to try and blame guys for all of the woes that befall the community. People have to take responsibility for their own actions in the end.
I agree that as a community we could do a better job of imparting our heritage and a Sikh worldview to our youth. This is something I've always tried to do and promoted. What more should I do? I was never taught more than the basics from my family, I had to learn the rest myself, sometimes at odds with what was being taught by my elders.
You are right in saying that Sikh guys should spend more time at the gym, alot that I know do. Others hide behind their own version of spirituality and avoid anything physically risky behind this, I think this is plain cowardice as well as blantantly against Khalsa philosophy.
In the end you shouldn't be trying to push your views on me Amandeep, you are just adding to the problem by pushing your "western feminist" views around. i.e. blaming men for everything. Sikh women have to take responsibility for their actions themselves. Instead like Amandep they blame the stupid actions of some females on guys. Besides If they don't raise sons that are strong, brave and proactive then they are just as guilty as the guys who are too scared to protect their sisters. Anyway, plenty of Sikh guys I know aren't that way at all so......
Very true, but in our parents time they had no choice about who they ended up with generally so I can understand why some of them ended up with abusive husbands. When girls go out and choose an idiot like this of their own free will........plain old dumb to me.....
Lets not argue any more. I just made some points because it is somewhat annoying to see what is going on. Sikh men, with all of their faults (and I would agree that there may be many), have still made a generally good reputation for themselves wherever they have landed. As soldiers, citizens, construction workers they are generally a positive force wherever they go. Most nations in the west with a sizable Sikh population recognise this in some way. The Sikh mans hard work ethic has taken him a long way.
But you are right in your analysis MKAUR - more education is needed. But lack of cultural awareness still isn't an excuse for sluttish sell out behaviour that SOME girls exhibit, bringing the rest of us down. Don't defend it Amandeep, condemn it.
What I am saying is that certain girls are acting in a stupid way by involving themselves with guys that obviously hate Sikhs and that use the girls to make some sort of pathetic strike at the panth.
It isn't right to try and blame guys for all of the woes that befall the community. People have to take responsibility for their own actions in the end.
I agree that as a community we could do a better job of imparting our heritage and a Sikh worldview to our youth. This is something I've always tried to do and promoted. What more should I do? I was never taught more than the basics from my family, I had to learn the rest myself, sometimes at odds with what was being taught by my elders.
You are right in saying that Sikh guys should spend more time at the gym, alot that I know do. Others hide behind their own version of spirituality and avoid anything physically risky behind this, I think this is plain cowardice as well as blantantly against Khalsa philosophy.
In the end you shouldn't be trying to push your views on me Amandeep, you are just adding to the problem by pushing your "western feminist" views around. i.e. blaming men for everything. Sikh women have to take responsibility for their actions themselves. Instead like Amandep they blame the stupid actions of some females on guys. Besides If they don't raise sons that are strong, brave and proactive then they are just as guilty as the guys who are too scared to protect their sisters. Anyway, plenty of Sikh guys I know aren't that way at all so......
Very true, but in our parents time they had no choice about who they ended up with generally so I can understand why some of them ended up with abusive husbands. When girls go out and choose an idiot like this of their own free will........plain old dumb to me.....
Lets not argue any more. I just made some points because it is somewhat annoying to see what is going on. Sikh men, with all of their faults (and I would agree that there may be many), have still made a generally good reputation for themselves wherever they have landed. As soldiers, citizens, construction workers they are generally a positive force wherever they go. Most nations in the west with a sizable Sikh population recognise this in some way. The Sikh mans hard work ethic has taken him a long way.
But you are right in your analysis MKAUR - more education is needed. But lack of cultural awareness still isn't an excuse for sluttish sell out behaviour that SOME girls exhibit, bringing the rest of us down. Don't defend it Amandeep, condemn it.
mkaurji
i agree with you that our society infact the whole world never gave women the respect they deserve.perhaps the male ego is too big to give them equal status.fortunately i was born in a family where boys and girls are treated equally.btw what equality means to you because i totaly disagree with the feminist point of view of equality.
as far as women leaving their religion is concerned.i am still searching the answer of this question that why they so easily give up their religion.may be any women on this site could answer this.
Amandeep Kaur
SPNer
- Dec 6, 2006
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I never said Sikh men should go to the gym more. That was MKaur. But I don't think that was actually her point. I think her point was more that women are not just attracted to men's muscles and that physical appearance is in fact a fairly small component of what comprises attraction. I think her point was that women don't just operate by a simple switch, aren't just ruled by their genitals.
And I don't see where I blamed Sikh men for the poor choices of some Sikh women. Could you please point out where I made that implication?
All I am saying is that it is wrong for you to make racist judgements about all Muslims, for you to say that any Sikh woman who chooses to date a non-Sikh is entering a violent relationship or is turning away from her roots. All I'm saying is that hatred and violent words or actions to people of other belief systems, or towards women that you believe are misguided is wrong. I don't defend hurting yourself. But I do defend the idea that it is okay to date Muslims or other people that are not Sikh. I defend the idea that not all of these people are bad. I do not defend self-destructive behavior. And I condemn racist attitudes and hatred which are contrary to the Sikh beliefs we should be proud of and often serve to hurt those who need help the most.
It is not always apparent that someone will be an abuser. They don't exactly wear signs saying "Hey, come hang out with me. I like to hurt people." However, it is a poor decision to not try to get out of a situation like that. But it is not always easy to get out of abusive situations, and the article you reference specifically said that this girl was targeted because the man knew she could not ask her family for help? Why not? Why couldn't she ask her family for help? If we turn our backs on people and condemn them for mistakes, we are only leaving them in bad situations. We are not responsible for the poor decisions of other people. But we are responsible for turning our backs on them, casting them away, and treating them like they deserve punishment just for trusting someone. And in the case of the girl in the article, her female relatives are just as responsible as her male ones for turning their backs on her. Only kindness changes people, makes them rejects habits one would condemn. Harsh treatment only further isolates them from the community you want them to embrace.
Feminism is an Eastern Sikh attitude and was one long before it was western. And I hardly consider myself a feminist in the way that you mean. I just believe that women are equal to men in intelligence and in the respect they should be accorded. It is certainly not a feminist thought to think that men are responsible for the choices of women. And the feminism I espoused was only in the form that I did not like phrases you used specifically designed to rest on unfair and wrong stereotypes of women to make them look like they are weak willed and stupid. Saying things like " Probably saw some muscles and got all excited...poor girl" and "getting all emotional" and implying that women aren't following the wise guidance of their male counterparts like they should is not something you need to be a radical feminist to be perturbed by.
You emphasize the hard work and good reputation of Sikh men, but what about Sikh women? This is just very confusing to me. Are all Sikh women in the UK housewives? My mother certainly worked hard and is a very accomplished scientist and the life that my parents created for me and my brother is just as much her work as my father's. Most of the Sikh families I know are headed by two working professionals, both hard working and virtuous. Many Sikh families who come and open businesses in the US have both spouses equally partnered in operating and running the business. I don't imagine things are somehow radically different in the UK. So my only conclusion is that you are ignoring the women, only counting the work of men as being worth examining. Obviously, I think this is not a fair assessment and is part of some agenda to put women down. I come to that conclusion from your degrading speech about women. Of course, I suppose it is possible that Sikh women in the UK are all somehow different from Sikh women everywhere else and somehow less hardworking in general and worth less as well as being stupid and virtueless, but I doubt it.
The reason we seem to be discussing two issues here is because it seems to me you are tying two things together. One, you are employing the concept that Muslims are all base users and abusers who are either all bad, or only want to date Sikh women to hurt Sikhs in general in some roundabout and convoluted way. Two, you are employing the concept that women are gullible and morally and emotionally weak and attacking them on these points and holding them responsible for supposedly bringing Sikhs down by allowing themselves to be taken advantage of by the previously described, uniformly evil Muslims or non-Sikhs they may stupidly associate with. I disagree on both points - that any group of people is composed entirely of bad people with alternate agendas, or that women are somehow especially gullible and morally and emotionally weak. And I disagree with the demeaning way that you speak of both of these groups and your advocacy for spitting on people who need help.
I disagree with the attitude represented in the above statement.
And this is a discussion forum. I am not trying to push my views onto people. We are discussing different viewpoints. That's what discussions are about. Each person represents his own viewpoint and they probably represent that viewpoint because they think it is correct. And if you enter into a discussion, you should be willing to allow people to be critical about your viewpoint. That is how discussions work. The purpose of discussion is to hear viewpoints you haven't heard before, reexamine your own, test them against others, and maybe even change and adapt when you are presented with something that makes more sense.
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