Sehajdhari Sikh Federation! Comments, Please

[kds1980]

My questions are more along the lines of the meaning of the terms and whether being Khalsa is a requirement for bing a 'true' Sikh. I am not here to criticize, far from it. I consider Sikhi as having a lot more to contribute to humanity than even most Sikhs may think. But I also worry that some elements are using the spirit of the Khalsa to fanaticize and divide the Sikh Way , and I am also asking myself if I am seeing things right. I certainly would not want to make a wrong judgment or make a wrong conclusion. And that is why I pester you guys with questions

Khalsa being a requirement of true sikh is difficult to answer.If in Sikhism there is no requirement of become a Khalsa then almost 100% sikhs will opt for not being a Khalsa
and Sikh identity will be diluted forever.After all why should people prefer to choose a difficult path rather than simple way

 

[curious seeker]

curious seeker ji

I am truly unable to understand your question? At what level are you asking?

Sehajdhari and Sahajdhari are the same word. The "e" and "a" in that noun position are pronounded the same way -- in English like the "u" in "thud." The schwa sound in English. Transliterations can be very variable and therefore throw a person off. The word "sehaj" in Gurmukhi looks like this ਸਹਜਿ, which is .... s - h - j (soft j) - eh

You notice that the "e" or "a" following the initial "s" is not even written. It is voiced but not written. Whenever that is the fate of a vowel in Punjabi, then the vowel sounds like "uh." The transliteration has to include a vowel, in the case of sehaj (an "e" or an "a") because without it the word would be mispronounced as if starting with an "sh."
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Now I think you are asking more than that. One translation for "sehaj" is intuitive ease -- or the state of equipoise experienced by one who achieves realization. But it also means "natural state" "inborn nature" "effortless state" or the "highest spiritual state." When Guru Nanak used the word he was referring to those who were moving on a path toward the highest spiritual state. On the way to sehaj, seeking the jyote or inner light of Waheguru. And yes, the modern meaning is different, but also it is not so different.

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In the modern sense the sehajdhari are making their way toward realization of their inner nature through their devotion as Sikhs. They have not taken a final step, which to be baptized and adopt the Sikh roop. Though this may sound as if somehow a shift has occurred and greater emphasis or value is placed on one's physical appearance, that is not the case.

In 1699 Guru Gobind Singh formed the Khalsa on Vaisakhi, soon to be celebrated on April 14. Before him inner and outer spirituality had always been two pillars of Sikhi. On Vaisakhi Guru Gobind Singh formalized this fusion of inner and outer spirituality when he created the Khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh declared Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the final and eternal Guru. But he also said to his khalsa

The Khalsa is my own special form
Within the Khalsa I’ll ever abide,
The Khalsa is the life of my life;
The Khalsa is the breath of my breath.
The Khalsa is my worshipful lord.
The Khalsa is my saintly knight.

Sikh bana, including kesh, of a baptized Sikh symbolizes that "special form." It is the representation of outer spirituality. Sure many keshdhari and amritdhari do not live up to the verses above. And many who are sehajdhari are extremely spiritual. But in the ideal sense, to be that "saintly knight," one gives up that part of one's individuality or ego that stands in the way of accepting the bana of a baptized Sikh. This is my understanding. And the best answer that I can give you. Others will have to improve on my deficiencies.

Dear Narayanjot Ji

That is wonderful reply! It does place the Amritsari vs Sehajdhari thing in a very clear light Its not that God would require of men the outer forms of a special commitment, its that men, themselves, needed to show to themselves they are, indeed, committed, did I get you at least half right?

I see all the benefits of the Khalsa , I worry that sometimes the emphasis on direct response to perceived injustice makes the Khalsa somewhat prone to be manipulated into over reacting. This despite the clear injunction not to use weapons or violence but as the very last resort.

And as to Sehajdhari issue: The ability to go through some sort of process of validation, acceptance and belonging for those who either has not grasped the importance of the Amrit and of the Khalsa, or do not feel ready for that kind of absolute commitment, can , IMO, not be exaggerated. It could solve the budding problem with many youths , It could be a very great help in the West both giving a sense of belonging to Diaspora Sikhs and facilitating acceptance by many Westerners of the Sikh way.

In fact, for all we know many of those Hindus that supposedly flood the Gurdwaras in India, might even actually become Sikhs and give up idolatry and even caste, It is possible that they are going to the Gurdwara because they follow the Bani but feel left out and even scared of a commitment to the militancy of the Khalsa.

But I ask you what I asked elsewhere in another post in this thread: How possible is that some sort of Initiation for Non-Khalsa Sikhs could come about? Is it realistically doable? I ask because, in most religions , change of the structure is almost impossible.

Divine Light
Curous

 

[harmanpreet singh]

sat ari akaal ,


i donot feel there is any compulsion on Sikh for becoming Khalsa , infact its totally ones own choice / wish .

i bow to Tenth Nanak sahib sri Guru Gobind singh sahib ji for blessing his beloved Khalsa with such distinct saint soldier identity .

 

[spnadmin]

curious seeker ji

I did answer it in post 39.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Dear Kanwardeep Singh JI

I do believe that All who wish to be called Sikhs should show some sort of commitment and then should be formally admitted. I am not so sure though that admittance into the Khalsa is that way at first. As to inventing a ceremony for Sehajdharis that is not true. Before Khalsa Sikhs had an Initiation ceremony, correct? I think something along those lines ought to be tried then you would not habe to worry about all those Hindus pretending to be Sehajdhari Sikks

Not that the re-instated ceremony would change the fact that the Khalsa as the Guru's own should still run the show, No, I look at it as a way to giving a sense of belonging to Sikhs that may otherwise feel left out specially young Sikhs and more specially so in the West. It would also help many seekers take the first step to becoming a committed Sikh.

Divine Light
Curious

Curious Seeker ji,

Guru Fateh.

Allow me to offer my 2 cent worth on this subject.

Sikhi is a unique way of looking at life, from inwards to outwards rather than the other way around, hence it is the internal manifestation, the desire to learn, to improve, to breed goodness through the three basic tenets working as our inner spring boards.

1. Naam Japnah ( Always be aware that there is ONE SOURCE of all irrespective of our hue,cred or faith, hence all are One and The One is in all).

2.Kirat Karni ( doing any task with love,devotion, dedication and in an honest manner irrespective of our age, career or profession).

3. Vand kei Chaknah ( sharing- not giving- whatever we can with others, a laughter, a tear or two, a smile, a shoulder to lean on, a helping hand etc. etc.).

The four doors of Harmander Sahib indicate that anyone from any hue,creed or faith is welcome to participate in this nectar of goodness and become a better Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Jaini, Parsi etc. etc.

The concept of Langar- Community kitchen (unlike the Christian Soup kitchens which only cater to the poor) also teaches the equality among all humanity, irrespective of a religion and social status. The Prince and the Pauper break the bread sitting together, side by side.

SGGS, our only Guru, teaches that. That is why the name Sikh simply means a student, a learner, a seeker. Nothing more.

A few years ago there was an International Religious Convention held in Madrid, Spain. Sikhs set up a big tent with Langar there where they served 8000 meals. Peoples from all different religions had the opportunity to partake in this wonderful event. A Rabbi whose name slips my mind wrote about it and said that this event where he ate all those days when he was at the convention made him a better Jew.

So, the idea of Sikhi is for each of us to become better as human beings. This is one more reason that proselyting is forbidden in Sikhi because then it would become an external imposition of a dogmatic kind whereas Sikhi is pragmatic way of life.

Thus, this internal manifestation which sprouts love, if followed with honesty and truthfulness can make one become a Sikh externally as well which may take one to take khandei de pahul eventually.

Finally to answer your initial query about any kind of initiation in Sikhi would make it dogmatic and hence defeat the purpose what Sikhi and SGGS are all about and what they stand for.

Tejwant Singh

 

[curious seeker]

Curious Seeker ji

Whatever it is that I GOT does not belong to me on this subject. I have learned from thinking about other's perspectives on this problem. As you ask "realistically what are the chances of something like this actually coming about?" I am almost certain it will happen sooner than we may think. Maybe not in my lifetime or yours. But celebration of early stages (added) of a Sikh identity is going to be increasingly more relevant as more kids leave their traditions and as more converts enter the fold. I am speaking as a convert BTW. I will not allow myself to get into arguments about whether one must be Khalsa to be Sikh. There are -- and everyone knows this is so -- many answers to that question, all depending on context and the biases of those who respond to the question. In the end, as individuals we have to take a personal account of where we are with what we know we must do. The question I like to ask myself is whether I would turn back now? Would there be any circumstance that might turn me away from Sikhism? I know there is none. Everything else pales against Sri Guru Granth Sahib who is my guru. Akaal will decide the rest. Will decide eveyrthing.

Dear Narayanjot ji

Very , very, well said. My sincere admiration. By the way what you got was the gist of the previous argument, but well you obviously know that. Thank you for being so wiling to share your understanding of Sikhi and for being so patient with us seekers, we can be, and often behave like, bulls in a china shop.

Sat Nam!
Curious

 

[curious seeker]

Narayanjot Ji

OOPs! Sorry

Curious

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

90! of sikhs who cut their hair....INSIST on their SONS/DAUGHTERS keep hair..tie patka..
IN My Gurbani Classes..in the Punjabi School...i am no longer surprised when i see a Dastaar wallah young boy..bringing his GHONA father to meet me....very few GHONAS have ghona children....why ?? ..the elder GHONA's fault lies in HIS PARENTS..who failed him...he has reaiased his failure..and doesnt want his son to be the same GHONA as he is...

SIKHI is SAFE..even renowned historians like KHUSHWANT SINGH have to SWALLOW their SPIT...becasue he said the Exact same thing in his Book Sikh history...he "predicted" there will be NO MORE DASTAAR WALLEH SIKHS IN 50 YEARS....he had to swallow that spit back from the ground...when the 50 years passed..and Dastaaree sikhs still around in MILLIONS..Now same types of DHEHNDEE Kalla walleh making the statements....wont happen..dastaar will still be around...

This is His Khalsa..it will be:thumbsupp::thumbsupp::thumbsupp: around as long as HE is...

 

[kds1980]

90! of sikhs who cut their hair....INSIST on their SONS/DAUGHTERS keep hair..tie patka..
IN My Gurbani Classes..in the Punjabi School...i am no longer surprised when i see a Dastaar wallah young boy..bringing his GHONA father to meet me....very few GHONAS have ghona children....why ?? ..the elder GHONA's fault lies in HIS PARENTS..who failed him...he has reaiased his failure..and doesnt want his son to be the same GHONA as he is...

SIKHI is SAFE..even renowned historians like KHUSHWANT SINGH have to SWALLOW their SPIT...becasue he said the Exact same thing in his Book Sikh history...he "predicted" there will be NO MORE DASTAAR WALLEH SIKHS IN 50 YEARS....he had to swallow that spit back from the ground...when the 50 years passed..and Dastaaree sikhs still around in MILLIONS..Now same types of DHEHNDEE Kalla walleh making the statements....wont happen..dastaar will still be around...


This is His Khalsa..it will be:thumbsupp::thumbsupp::thumbsupp: around as long as HE is...

Where Sikhi is safe ? in some elite home' of punjabi's sikhs.Right now Indian premier league of Cricket is going on.I can count on finger tips how many sikhs are playing in it.there are 10-12 sikhs that are in different teams .4-5 of them wear Patka.All of those Patka wearing sikhs trim/shave their beard.So in Other words their is not even 1 fulll sikh in entire cricket league of India

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Re: Comments, Please

The move seems to have fizzled out. It was more of a political outfit. However, such gurudwras of sehajdharis may comeup.... may be 100 years later.

ballym ji,
Wich move has fizzled out?More than 80 % Sikhs are Sehajdharies.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Where Sikhi is safe ? in some elite home' of punjabi's sikhs.Right now Indian premier league of Cricket is going on.I can count on finger tips how many sikhs are playing in it.there are 10-12 sikhs that are in different teams .4-5 of them wear Patka.All of those Patka wearing sikhs trim/shave their beard.So in Other words their is not even 1 fulll sikh in entire cricket league of India

Pardon me Jios..
In a Field full of Grazing SHEEP..one must stop looking at the SHEEP..and look out for the SHEPHERD !!
Trouble is today too many concnetrate only on the "sheep"..which by nature will be MANY and more NUMEROUS any way....but fail to see the shepherd..which by nature will be MINORITY !! The KHALSA IS always about MINORITY...it has NEVER BEEN the MAJORITY anywhere at anytime..in any place...and never will be...

Thanks and keep in chardeekalla while you concentrate on finding the shepherd among the crowded field full of sheep...

1. Anandpur Sahib..a handful of Khalsas INSIDE..a MILLION strong outside...
2. Chamkaur dee garrhee.. less than 40 Khalsa INSIDE..a MILLION strong outside...
3. Saragharee Fort...17 Khalsa INSIDE..a FEW THOUSAND afghans OUTSIDE...
4.Lohgarh..chhota ghallughara..wadda ghallughara.. 1984 Darbar sahib COMPLEX....NEVER the MAJORITY..always the MINORITY !!!

KHALSA is SAVA LAKH..is that just a JOKE ?? it is REALITY...Imagine if just about "every tom D** and Harry became a KHALSA..the world would be toppled over..becasue it would be like 6 billion X 125000... WHY we NEVER proseltyze..never convert..we NEED only the Solidly CONVICTED persons volunteers..not bought...enticed...persuaded...obliged...etc etc types..ONLY those who have their HEADS on their PALMS....such are Never the Majority..or overwhelming in NUMBERS.

 

[kds1980]

Pardon me Jios..
In a Field full of Grazing SHEEP..one must stop looking at the SHEEP..and look out for the SHEPHERD !!
Trouble is today too many concnetrate only on the "sheep"..which by nature will be MANY and more NUMEROUS any way....but fail to see the shepherd..which by nature will be MINORITY !! The KHALSA IS always about MINORITY...it has NEVER BEEN the MAJORITY anywhere at anytime..in any place...and never will be...

Thanks and keep in chardeekalla while you concentrate on finding the shepherd among the crowded field full of sheep...

1. Anandpur Sahib..a handful of Khalsas INSIDE..a MILLION strong outside...
2. Chamkaur dee garrhee.. less than 40 Khalsa INSIDE..a MILLION strong outside...
3. Saragharee Fort...17 Khalsa INSIDE..a FEW THOUSAND afghans OUTSIDE...
4.Lohgarh..chhota ghallughara..wadda ghallughara.. 1984 Darbar sahib COMPLEX....NEVER the MAJORITY..always the MINORITY !!!

KHALSA is SAVA LAKH..is that just a JOKE ?? it is REALITY...Imagine if just about "every tom D** and Harry became a KHALSA..the world would be toppled over..becasue it would be like 6 billion X 125000... WHY we NEVER proseltyze..never convert..we NEED only the Solidly CONVICTED persons volunteers..not bought...enticed...persuaded...obliged...etc etc types..ONLY those who have their HEADS on their PALMS....such are Never the Majority..or overwhelming in NUMBERS.

If khalsa or sikhs can never be in majority then Forget about Political power.
Everywhere we have Democracy where all it matters are numbers even in Gurdwara elections.Khalsa will keep on begging to majority to give them some rights.It is only through numbers that sikhs can gain some political rights and live with dignity.

Also on your previous post about Mona's want their sons to be keshdhari .I just want to say that I don't think it work.One day the son will ask his father why he is not wearing turban then what?

 

[ballym]

Re: Comments, Please

ballym ji,
Wich move has fizzled out?More than 80 % Sikhs are Sehajdharies.

It was about the political outfit ... it did not get any support. I agree with you that more than 95% are really sehajdhari as per definition. I am supportive of this move of sehajdhari because that is what our Gurus really meant. khalsa was a special category ... not for all.On 13th April 1699. Did all persons were given amrit?

 

[spnadmin]

There are two different conversations developing in the thread, and one of them has me somewhat concerned. I have moved some posts to the "Leaders" section temporarily. Not easy to decide where to start moving posts, I used relevance to the thread topic as the guideline. It is really important to confine our remarks to the topic, and to resist the temptation to judge motivations and states of mind when we do that. Thanks, Narayanjot Kaur

 

[curious seeker]

There are two different conversations developing in the thread, and one of them has me somewhat concerned. I have moved some posts to the "Leaders" section temporarily. Not easy to decide where to start moving posts, I used relevance to the thread topic as the guideline. It is really important to confine our remarks to the topic, and to resist the temptation to judge motivations and states of mind when we do that. Thanks, Narayanjot Kaur

Dear Narayanjot Ji

As far as I am cocerned the conversattion with the gentleman is over but I do understand after all I do manage my own lists and I see your point

Ushta Te
Curious

 

[PCJ]

Once there is violence, these so-called Sehajdharis will disappear...

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Once there is violence, these so-called Sehajdharis will disappear...

:khanda3:Wah,wah, what a great a follower of Guru Nanak.Hopefuly there are not too many like him.

 

[spnadmin]

Made me a little nervous too jasbirkaleka ji and I re read the comment. I think the point is that if some violence like the Dehli riots broke out there would be a disappearing act. Of course this is a hypothetical and only PCJ can clarify.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Once there is violence, these so-called Sehajdharis will disappear...

I think you also believe that SUKHA and JINDA were cowards.But I doubt if you ever remember who they were or even know who they were.Their were many such Sehajdhari SIkh shaheeds who sacrificed their lives so that Sikhs could live with their heads held high.

 

[PCJ]

:khanda3:Wah,wah, what a great a follower of Guru Nanak.Hopefuly there are not too many like him.

I am actually not a follower of Guru Nanak, I simply made a comment. What are chances of these so-called Sehajdharis sticking around once the Amritdharis start suing violence against them? I don't think they will at all.

In this conflict, if Sehajdharis decided to take over Gurdwaras for example, eventually there would be violence against them and then they will give up this fight...

I don't know much about Sukha and Jinda other than that they killed someone who was responsible for attacking Golden temple. I sort of assumed that they were amritdhari but it seems like you are saying that they weren't. But it doesn't matter as I am not questioning them at all...