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Repercussions Of Cutting My Hair

Tejwant Singh

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WOW! Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maraj has spoken, where we debated on a topic for suitable answer, the answer has already been answered. A true devotee of GOD would care on what they wear on their physical body but would much care on what they wear on their soul, and what should be worn on the soul should be the word of the guru.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!
BlazinSikh ji,

Guru Fateh.

No. It does not say what you have concluded. It is much more than meets the eye. This is the danger of one liners without the context. As I have requested to Spiritual Singh ji, I have the same request for you.

Hope to hear from you.

Tejwant Singh
 
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@Tejwant Singh

I believe in Guru Granth Sahib only that is why I gave references to versus from Guru Granth Sahib only in support of inner qualities that matter the most that you totally sideline , remember You can achieve God by inner qualities alone but not with outer ones alone although it is best to have both


This is the danger of one liners
I have not only given line but exact Page and Line number so that anyone can study the context as well, so what's the confusion?
 
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Tejwant Singh

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Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

@Tejwant Singh

I believe in Guru Granth Sahib only that is why I gave references to versus from Guru Granth Sahib only in support of inner qualities that matter the most that you totally sideline , remember You can achieve God by inner qualities alone but not with outer ones alone although it is best to have both
What do you mean by 'achieve God'?. Isn't Ik Ong Kaar omnipresent? SGGS, our only Guru says he/she/it is.

I have not only given line but exact Page and Line number so that anyone can study the context as well, so what's the confusion?
There is no confusion at all. My request to you is to help us expand our understanding of Gurbani with your own. I do not find anything wrong with that rather to the contrary.

Hope to read and learn from your understanding of the Shabads.

Tejwant Singh
 
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Guru Fateh Ji

What do you mean by 'achieve God'?
By 'achieve God' I mean achieving salvation, to meet God like a drop meets ocean and merges, growing inner eyes that can see and realize the God.

Isn't Ik Ong Kaar omnipresent?
Its a difficult testing question you are asking, let me try to answer it with an example.

A Radio Signal is everywhere and everyone has Radio but unless they switch it on and tune it to the right frequency they aren't going to get any Signal.

God is present everywhere but only those with inner purity,love for all,Naam Jap, and inner yearning for God can see and feel the connection with God.


Here are some versus that I found from Sri Guru Granth Sahib regarding your question:-


ਇਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਵਣਿ ਤਿਣਿ ਸਭਤੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਨਹੀ ਖਾਇ ॥ [Page 41, Line 13]
This Sublime Essence of the Lord is in the forests, in the fields and*everywhere, but the unfortunate ones do not taste it.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੨॥ [Page 605, Line 7]
O Nanak, the Beloved is pervading*everywhere, but He is hidden; through the Guru, He is revealed. ||4||2||

ਸਭੁ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥੨੦॥ [Page 73, Line 1]
The Truest of the True is pervading*everywhere; He instructs those with whom He is pleased. ||20||


ਊਂਧ ਕਵਲੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਡੀਠਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ [Page 108, Line 16]
Those, whose inverted lotus of the crown chakra is illuminated, see the Immaculate Lord*everywhere. ||2||


ਤੂ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਮੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥ [Page 25, Line 8]
You are present*everywhere. I had thought that You were far away.
 

Luckysingh

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SpiritualSinghji, You are good man and I'm glad you are making an effort.
When I was your age, I hadn't got a clue and was completely absorbed in my own world and my own life !!!
I admire you for trying to move forward on this path.

You should set your own personal goals like you have described above.
such as -
-achieving God or salvation.
-Making an effort to be in tune with God signal !

These are ALl simple goals that many of us have and they do help keep us on the path.
I often hear people say ''I want to meet God''
or ''I want to find and stay with him''!!

There is nothing wrong with this, but I know that God is not a person with long hair and beard that is going to have a cup of tea and chat about my deeds.
Far from it, but it always gives me hope and joy when I hear people making these remarks.

As long as you have a target set and keep your eyes and focus on that target then it helps keeps you on the straight line for that path. The problem is that the closer you get to the target, the further it moves away and then you realise you want a slightly different target, instead of just meeting him you would rather just feel him and his presence.
This ongoing path and change due to learning along the way is what keeps you on the straight path and it helps you learn about yourself,others,creation and creator all overlapping into one along the way.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I would like to point out first and foremost is that we are having a conversation not a discussion nor an argument. Sikhi is all about conversation where disagreements are also part of the Sikhi journey and the learning process. In fact, I enjoy your posts a lot. This cyber sadh Sangat on this forum is amazing.

SpiritualSingh;182641]Guru Fateh Ji
By 'achieve God' I mean achieving salvation, to meet God like a drop meets ocean and merges, growing inner eyes that can see and realize the God.
There is nothing called Salvation in Sikhi. It is an Abrahamic dogma like carrot and stick- Hell and Heaven which Sikhi rejects.

Breeding goodness within and sharing with others no matter of what hue, creed and faith is being with Ik Ong Kaar. It is all in the works. It is all what we do in this life and in a Sikhi way does matter. Nothing more.

I know we use the word God for the sake of reference in English. Lord is another word we use. As a matter of fact there is no God in Sikhi and one can be a Lord by shelling out a few pounds in the UK. Both are meant for the deities which Sikhi rejects.

I must confess that I used Lord a lot in my Sikh Prayers to open the Nevada Senate last week. The main reason was that I wanted them to understand the message of Gurbani and Lord is the word they have an intimacy with. Otherwise, I only use Ik Ong Kaar.

Its a difficult testing question you are asking, let me try to answer it with an example.

A Radio Signal is everywhere and everyone has Radio but unless they switch it on and tune it to the right frequency they aren't going to get any Signal.

God is present everywhere
Please share with us how do you describe God first, so we can go further. Moolmantar explains Ik Ong Kaar very well. Hope to read your description.

but only those with inner purity,love for all,Naam Jap, and inner yearning for God can see and feel the connection with God.
As a Sikh, I have no right to judge others. As mentioned before, Sikhi is the journey of the individual and each of us carry our own Sikhi torch. Each of us are individuals and as I said before only the person and of course Ik Ong Kaar know about person's inner purity and love. It is my duty to become better person with every breath with the help of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru.

Can you please elaborate what do you understand by Naam Jap?

Here are some versus that I found from Sri Guru Granth Sahib regarding your question:-


ਇਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਵਣਿ ਤਿਣਿ ਸਭਤੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਨਹੀ ਖਾਇ ॥ [Page 41, Line 13]
This Sublime Essence of the Lord is in the forests, in the fields and*everywhere, but the unfortunate ones do not taste it.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੨॥ [Page 605, Line 7]
O Nanak, the Beloved is pervading*everywhere, but He is hidden; through the Guru, He is revealed. ||4||2||

ਸਭੁ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥੨੦॥ [Page 73, Line 1]
The Truest of the True is pervading*everywhere; He instructs those with whom He is pleased. ||20||


ਊਂਧ ਕਵਲੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਡੀਠਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ [Page 108, Line 16]
Those, whose inverted lotus of the crown chakra is illuminated, see the Immaculate Lord*everywhere. ||2||


ਤੂ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਮੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥ [Page 25, Line 8]
You are present*everywhere. I had thought that You were far away.
All these wonderful verses are reminders for us as individuals, a manual how to do better in this very life of ours, the only one we know. They are not meant for pointing mistakes in others or judging them. Our only duty is to help them in any way or form to get better if possible.

When we read Gurbani and come across the Shabads like above, we do not stop at that moment and start thinking about people who may be like that according to our judgement and in our mind they are exactly the same what the verses mention and tick mark them in our minds.

We read Gurbani for ourselves. Hence all the message in Gurbani is pointing towards us, not at anyone else.

There is an old saying,"If we change the way we look at things, then the things we look at change".

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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spnadmin

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SpiritualSingh ji I am just noticing that these are single tuks all lined up. Please do not post single tuks. Post entire shabads giving your understanding of them with the Ang number. Thank you
 
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spnadmin

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Guru Fateh Ji



By 'achieve God' I mean achieving salvation, to meet God like a drop meets ocean and merges, growing inner eyes that can see and realize the God.



Its a difficult testing question you are asking, let me try to answer it with an example.

A Radio Signal is everywhere and everyone has Radio but unless they switch it on and tune it to the right frequency they aren't going to get any Signal.

God is present everywhere but only those with inner purity,love for all,Naam Jap, and inner yearning for God can see and feel the connection with God.


Here are some versus that I found from Sri Guru Granth Sahib regarding your question:-


ਇਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਵਣਿ ਤਿਣਿ ਸਭਤੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਨਹੀ ਖਾਇ ॥ [Page 41, Line 13]
This Sublime Essence of the Lord is in the forests, in the fields and*everywhere, but the unfortunate ones do not taste it.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੨॥ [Page 605, Line 7]
O Nanak, the Beloved is pervading*everywhere, but He is hidden; through the Guru, He is revealed. ||4||2||

ਸਭੁ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥੨੦॥ [Page 73, Line 1]
The Truest of the True is pervading*everywhere; He instructs those with whom He is pleased. ||20||


ਊਂਧ ਕਵਲੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਡੀਠਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ [Page 108, Line 16]
Those, whose inverted lotus of the crown chakra is illuminated, see the Immaculate Lord*everywhere. ||2||


ਤੂ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਮੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥ [Page 25, Line 8]
You are present*everywhere. I had thought that You were far away.

Again: NO POSTING OF SINGLE TUKS. POST THE SHABAD AND GIVE A VICHAAR. I did not catch the single tukss on this earlier reply. I am going to leave it with the warning I just gave. There are 3 examples of "tuking our way through an argument" on the thread. I was remiss in not noticing this before. Single tuk replies are subject to immediate deletion.
 
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Again: NO POSTING OF SINGLE TUKS. POST THE SHABAD AND GIVE A VICHAAR.
I wasn't made aware of this rigid rule, before my comment got deleted by you , how am I supposed to take care of a rule before knowing it?

Did I not gave Page Number to study the full context? If yes then how can it be called a single tuk reply?
 

findingmyway

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I wasn't made aware of this rigid rule, before my comment got deleted by you , how am I supposed to take care of a rule before knowing it?

Did I not gave Page Number to study the full context? If yes then how can it be called a single tuk reply?
The terms of service when you sign up are extremely clear on this issue. There have also been numerous messages reiterating this rule to all who break it across the entire forum. If you look at the tips above the reply box, you will find reference to this and other helpful guidance.

There is a very good reason for all the rules we have. Posting Gurbani and ang no allows others to look up the shabad themself. Single tuks taken out of context often lead to misleading conlcusions. Each shabad is like a story. It takes an established concept then expands on the theory then changes the meaning so single lines do not always add up to the conclusion of the shabad. This is why it is vital to show the line of interest in context with your own understanding. Merely providing a link to the full shabad is not sufficient as it is not the healthiest way to learn from our wonderful Guru.

Please can all members be mindful of this when writing posts to enhance the learning experience from SGGS and allow us all to grow as Sikhs (or enhance learning for non-Sikh members).
 
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Posting whole Shabad for 10 lines that I referenced from Guru Granth Sahib on "Salvation" would take huge amount of space, anyhow I don't have any problem doing that if its an absolute rule.
 

aristotle

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Posting whole Shabad for 10 lines that I referenced from Guru Granth Sahib on "Salvation" would take huge amount of space, anyhow I don't have any problem doing that if its an absolute rule.
You can atleast give the tuk of 'rahau'. Single tuks frequently give a wrong idea of the Shabad. Also, references from Gurbani should be given only as many as required, excessive quoting would be pedantic IMO.
 

spnadmin

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SpiritualSingh ji

What findingmyway ji has reported is exactly the rule. So I am not going to add to what she has said. Now I do understand the frustration of posting long shabads for each of the tuks you used to make a point. But.... if all the tuks, together, stand behind your argument, you only need one. So just post one shabad for the one tuk that you think is the best one.

There is another issue. After you post a shabad some members are going to want to know why you think he shabad makes your point. And if they don't see the connection then you will be asked to explain your personal interpretation. Often when we see the tuk as part of the complete shabad suddenly we realize that it does not mean what we originally thought it meant.

Here is an example on the "salvation" theme that you mentioned:


ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਤਾ ਉਧਰੈ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
Sabaḏ marai ṯā uḏẖrai pā▫e mokẖ ḏu▫ār.
If one dies through the Shabad, then salvation is obtained, and one finds the Door of Liberation.


Alone the tuk makes it seem that there is a kind of salvation achieved through the Shabad. Once that happens we stand in the Door of Liberation. What sort of salvation? What door of liberation? We have to ask: What are we to be delivered from, and what happens because of this deliverance? How does it happen? The shabad tells the full story.

findingmyway ji has likened a shabad to a story which unfolds and ends with a kind of lesson. What is the lesson? Ang 33

ਕਾਂਇਆ ਸਾਧੈ ਉਰਧ ਤਪੁ ਕਰੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
Kāʼn▫i▫ā sāḏẖai uraḏẖ ṯap karai vicẖahu ha▫umai na jā▫e.
You may torment your body with extremes of self-discipline, practice intensive meditation and hang upside-down, but your ego will not be eliminated from within.

ਅਧਿਆਤਮ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ॥
Aḏẖi▫āṯam karam je kare nām na kab hī pā▫e.
You may perform religious rituals, and still never obtain the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥੧॥
Gur kai sabaḏ jīvaṯ marai har nām vasai man ā▫e. ||1||
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, remain dead while yet alive, and the Name of the Lord shall come to dwell within the mind. ||1||

ਸੁਣਿ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਜੁ ਸਤਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾ ॥
Suṇ man mere bẖaj saṯgur sarṇā.
Listen, O my mind: hurry to the Protection of the Guru's Sanctuary.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਭਵਜਲੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰ ਤਰਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Gur parsādī cẖẖutī▫ai bikẖ bẖavjal sabaḏ gur ṯarṇā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
By Guru's Grace you shall be saved. Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean of poison. ||1||Pause||

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਸਭਾ ਧਾਤੁ ਹੈ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਵਿਕਾਰੁ ॥
Ŧarai guṇ sabẖā ḏẖāṯ hai ḏūjā bẖā▫o vikār.
Everything under the influence of the three qualities shall perish; the love of duality is corrupting.

ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਪੜੈ ਬੰਧਨ ਮੋਹ ਬਾਧਾ ਨਹ ਬੂਝੈ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਪਿਆਰਿ ॥
Pandiṯ paṛai banḏẖan moh bāḏẖā nah būjẖai bikẖi▫ā pi▫ār.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, read the scriptures, but they are trapped in the bondage of emotional attachment. In love with evil, they do not understand.

ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਛੂਟੈ ਚਉਥੈ ਪਦਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥
Saṯgur mili▫ai ṯarikutī cẖẖūtai cẖa▫uthai paḏ mukaṯ ḏu▫ār. ||2||
Meeting the Guru, the bondage of the three qualities is cut away, and in the fourth state, the Door of Liberation is attained. ||2||

ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਚੂਕੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥
Gur ṯe mārag pā▫ī▫ai cẖūkai moh gubār.
Through the Guru, the Path is found, and the darkness of emotional attachment is dispelled.

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਤਾ ਉਧਰੈ ਪਾਏ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
Sabaḏ marai ṯā uḏẖrai pā▫e mokẖ ḏu▫ār.
If one dies through the Shabad, then salvation is obtained, and one finds the Door of Liberation.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
Gur parsādī mil rahai sacẖ nām karṯār. ||3||
By Guru's Grace, one remains blended with the True Name of the Creator. ||3||

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੂਆ ਅਤਿ ਸਬਲ ਹੈ ਛਡੇ ਨ ਕਿਤੈ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
Ih manū▫ā aṯ sabal hai cẖẖade na kiṯai upā▫e.
This mind is very powerful; we cannot escape it just by trying.

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਲਾਇਦਾ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਦੇਇ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā▫e ḏukẖ lā▫iḏā bahuṯī ḏe▫e sajā▫e.
In the love of duality, people suffer in pain, condemned to terrible punishment.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੇ ਸੇ ਉਬਰੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਗਵਾਇ ॥੪॥੧੮॥੫੧॥

Nānak nām lage se ubre ha▫umai sabaḏ gavā▫e. ||4||18||51||
O Nanak, those who are attached to the Naam are saved; through the Shabad, their ego is banished. ||4||18||51||

So, here I have given everyone a fair start. Here is one shabad about "salvation" for others to reflect on out loud. I think we all can see that the tuk alone does not give the complete story in detail. Notice for one thing that the shabad mentions "Pandits" ... which makes this a very special kind of story. Someone is invited to learn something here that will turn things around and away from some practices of old that have been unhelpful ... and that alone is a kind of salvation. Forgive my being vague. I am doing it on purpose. What else needs to be said? Would like to hear what others think this "story" is about, what "salvation" means in this shabad.

And what if anything does this have to do with tampering with one's hair (the thread topic)?
 
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Thanx for elaborating.

Tejwant Singh: There is nothing called Salvation in Sikhi.
Sometimes a single satement is enough to make a point when the question pertains to presence or absence of a word in Gurbani. He did not asked - what do I mean by salvation but simply that "nothing called Salvation in Sikhi" which is not the case when you find even a single instance of that word(salvation in this case) in Gurbani being favoured not condemned.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Thanx for elaborating.
Sometimes a single satement is enough to make a point when the question pertains to presence or absence of a word in Gurbani. He did not asked - what do I mean by salvation but simply that "nothing called Salvation in Sikhi" which is not the case when you find even a single instance of that word(salvation in this case) in Gurbani being favoured not condemned.
Spiritual Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

First, I want to thank Spnadmin ji for posting the Shabad along with its literal translation which is a wonderful way to start and understand Gurbani.

If I am not mistaken, you were talking about the concept of salvation which does not exist in Sikhi. It is an Abrahamic concept to be away from Hell and live in Heaven for eternity. Normally, the Christian, especially the born againer would ask if you were a Christian and if you were 'saved' or not.

Sikhi does not have any concept called Salvation.

So, I would request you to share you own understanding about the Shabad.

Is Salvation the right word in the literal translation or does it mislead in Sikhi concept?

What does dying through Shabad mean?

Is mokh duar the 'liberation door' as translated in the Sikhi concept? If it is, is it locked and who has the keys?

These are not the questions I am asking you but the question I ask myself when I am trying to put this beautiful Gurbani into prose so that I can practice in my life.

Hope to learn from your understanding.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh
 

spnadmin

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And if no one is going to make some suggestions regarding the meaning of "salvation" in context of the posted shabad or another posted shabad, then we have to wrap this part of the discussion up.The question of salvation was raised and its meaning in Sikhi is important. The thread however is about "cutting my hair."
 

Luckysingh

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Dec 4, 2011
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Salvation or liberation are references to Mukhti.
We are already off topic here, but I understand what Spiritualji means when referencing salvation.
Now, Sikhism doesn't deny mukhti as such but in most ancient scriptures mukhti is attained on or after death. Therefore, sikhi makes the point of dying whilst alive or 'Jeevan Mukhti' -liberation whilst alive and kicking !!

Anyway, with reference to 'hair'- I don't think the hair is an absolute requirement for one to attain mukhti as such. Since you are meant to be dead whilst alive, meaning no part of you or your ego, glued to the outward surrounding or the mind's desires, then the hair becomes kind of insignificant.

In other words there doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between hair and mukhti.
Maybe now, I'm going completely off-topic. In all honesty, I think we have forgot what the OP was about !!
 

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Ang 690
This shabad uses the word ਜੀਉ frequently, it is written as if Guru Ram Das is talking to a friend (us). What do you think is the significance of this?

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