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Pubs, Clubs And Sikhs

justosh

SPNer
Jun 3, 2008
47
38
London
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh all,
Just wanted to know if a sikh and even a amritdhari sikh can go in to pubs and clubs.

I have spoken to a few people, and the same debate happens all the time;
-No you should not because Guru Ji would not allow it.
-but on the other hand, if you are not to drink and control your head i.e. kaam...... i donno.

that is literally how it goes lol....

i was thinking though, that Waheguru is omnipresent, so hence can a sikh or a amritdhari sikh go?

Thanks
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
Re: Pubs and Clubs

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh all,
Just wanted to know if a sikh and even a amritdhari sikh can go in to pubs and clubs.

I have spoken to a few people, and the same debate happens all the time;
-No you should not because Guru Ji would not allow it.
-but on the other hand, if you are not to drink and control your head i.e. kaam...... i donno.

that is literally how it goes lol....

i was thinking though, that Waheguru is omnipresent, so hence can a sikh or a amritdhari sikh go?Thanks
justosh ji thanks for your post. Sikhism does not believe in forbidden and the sanctification of places. What was once a farm, becomes a house, becomes a pub, becomes a condo building. Sikhism is concerned with the innards of who we are. You don't need to go to pub to become bad or automatically become good by going to a Gurdwara. This can be proven through too numerous examples.

So important is to live in your beliefs and wisdom of SGGS as much as your heart desires. If you are blessed you could even be a saint in a bordello.

There are practical dangers in terms of "when in Rome act like a Roman" peer pressure, etc., but it will go to your inner strength and values again for the counterpoise.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,689
14,358
72
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Re: Pubs and Clubs

a person i know very well, used to be in the Gurdwara almost 24/7..meditating..doing various sewa etc etc..and everyone thought he was a SAINT..a holy one..who cared for nothing except sewa etc...and then suddenly one day he struck a lottery...and then he was 24/7 in pubs clubs and discos and at the races/bordellos....his friends were actually in the "dark" as he was probably IN the Gurdwara because he had no money to go anywhere else...and when the MONEY came in..he was "enlightened"...and all the garbage inside him became visible to all...the question is..was he full of garbage anyway ( hidden because of no money)...and the money is simply like a light switched ON in a room full of garbage...where earlier due to the darkness everyone thought the room was clean..or its the fault of the LIGHT/MONEY for revealing the TRUTH...
so its NOT places that matter..in fact Gurbani tells us that there is much more "dirt.....maeil in TEERATHS than in other places...
 

TigerStyleZ

SPNer
Mar 31, 2011
270
318
Germany
Re: Pubs and Clubs

You can go if you really wish. But clubs have no advantage for me they aer just boring.
You have to made the experience.. Our Guru made experience as well.. but in the end it is you , who have to accept yourself. But remember Bad Sangat = Bad Influence = Bad habits
Good Sangat = Good influence = good habits. And only keeping Kesh dont means you are a Sikh. It is a step forward but nothing more.

Good luck , bro:interestedmunda:
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 4, 2011
1,633
2,757
Vancouver
Re: Pubs and Clubs

Justosh ji

It's not forbidden to go. Of course you can go. But what exactly do you want to do there.
In a pub you could be socialising, telling jokes, playing cards- so your mind will be occupied with company. In a club, you could just be enjoying the music and dance- not paying attention to lust/drink/drug around you.
Doing both is absolutely fine.
But during your whole time there, is that all your mind will be doing, every single moment ??

It's all about controlling your mind and not subjecting your mind to exposures which makes it a little easier to control.

I do know plenty of sikhs that were into dance and fitness and they did go clubbing for this very often . But, it wasn't always easy in these places to keep your focus just on music and dance !!!! As you will get thirsty, need washroom etc... etc... so while on your way to the bar for a cola or use the washroom you will encounter/interact with others-whose interests will not be the same as yours.-This is where the TRUE MIND control comes in. Can you keep focused on just what you went for (dance/fitness enjoy) or will you experience temptations ??
It's all experience and progress in your development.
If you don't go to a certain dance night, then you won't know.

So by all means go, your 18 yrs old, I know how it feels. You will learn from yourself, not by what we say, just see if you can control your mind- that's the fun part.
I have known some Singhs to have very good mind control in these situations, but ONLY A FEW.
See if you fit in to the few, don't worry if you don't.

Thanks
 

Navdeep88

Writer
SPNer
Dec 23, 2009
442
655
Re: Pubs and Clubs

By all means go, but please know that its not as glamorous as it seems. Lots of people get into drinking, partying etc. early on, end up abusing it later on. You don't want those things to be options for you.

Rely on Waheguru...

So, for the sake of observation go, but be safe. Plus theres lots of other ways to have fun with your mates, than to be around drinking etc.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 4, 2011
1,633
2,757
Vancouver
Re: Pubs and Clubs

Sounds good, what sort of dance and music are you into ??
So, you don't drink at the clubs, I know it's usually pricey, do you drink before you go ??
 

Kamala

Banned
May 27, 2011
389
146
Canada.
Re: Pubs and Clubs

Well I dance to trance songs/techno at the clubs to popular pop songs haha. I mostly just sway around with the crowd but I never go if my friends don't come along with me :) I don't drink hah. I'm to scared to face the consequences after this life ends |o|.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 4, 2011
1,633
2,757
Vancouver
Re: Pubs and Clubs

Acid base, breaks, breakbeat,ambient techno,dark, jungle,ministry,acid trance,classic and dream trance, euro trance,neo and uplifting trance....there are many more..... Which do you prefer ?
Do certain ones help you 'trip' better ??:singhbhangra::singhbhangra::singhbhangra:
 
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Kamala

Banned
May 27, 2011
389
146
Canada.
Re: Pubs and Clubs

Well I am Punjabi but I am in Canada and I don't know any Indian dances. Lol I don't trip since I'm always sober :p
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 4, 2011
1,633
2,757
Vancouver
Re: Pubs and Clubs

Sorry, I didn't mention Indian dances. I was giving a few examples of different trance/techno dance music that you mentioned.
Just wanted to clarify which sort in particular.

Lot's of dancers can trip whilst sober, you don't need alcohol to trip!!
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,936
2,948
52
United Kingdom
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh all,
Just wanted to know if a sikh and even a amritdhari sikh can go in to pubs and clubs.

I have spoken to a few people, and the same debate happens all the time;
-No you should not because Guru Ji would not allow it.
-but on the other hand, if you are not to drink and control your head i.e. kaam...... i donno.

that is literally how it goes lol....

i was thinking though, that Waheguru is omnipresent, so hence can a sikh or a amritdhari sikh go?

Thanks
In the UK the Pub is an integral part of the community. It is the social place, eating place, meeting place, business place and drinking place. I do not drink but do meet people there and do business there. I also occaisionally eat there and take my kids to the Wacky Warehouses there. In Punjabi circles the Pub is just seen as a drinking place.

Again clubs, many social events such as birthday, Christmas events are held there.

In short I have no problem with them.

Then again I wouldn't go to some sleezy pubs with alcoholics there or dirty strip clubs.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Dec 4, 2011
1,633
2,757
Vancouver
Very good point Randip ji,
The pub culture as described is just in UK. Here in Canada it's much different.

The coffee shops like Tim Horton's, Starbucks etc are more of a social meeting place.
It's just a difference in cultures. The pubs in UK are much more family orientated, not here, unless its a steak/ ribs house with a bar. Even then the food/restaurant is 1st with an added bar, whereas in UK its the bar with food/restaurant added secondary.

My post earlier for Justosh ji was referring to the UK scene and culture, which is quite different to here in Canada.
 

Inderjeet Kaur

Writer
SPNer
Oct 13, 2011
869
1,763
Seattle, Washington, USA
“Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death so live, live, LIVE!" Auntie Mame”
Patrick Dennis
As Sikhs we are called on to live life to its fullest, to be happy and remain in chardi kala always.

Do clubs and pubs and the like help us do this? I have not been in a club since the 1980's and I remember it as crowded, very loud and full of tobacco smoke. I think most places no longer allow smoking; the smoke alone was enough to get me to turn around and walk out.

I think going to clubs and pubs is not forbidden, but what does it accomplish? Won't others seeing a visible Sikh in such places assume that s/he is there for the same reasons as most people are? How does this reflect on our community? For many reasons, we are not very popular in a lot of places and as much as I wish it were otherwise, I think we need to watch our public image.

Everything a visible Sikh does reflects on the whole community and our Shaheeds and our Guru Sahiban. Does going to such places honor them and us? Clearly, I think it's better to avoid those places, but I think, as I said, they are not forbidden.

As for dancing, I love dancing. I loved doing it when I was younger and I love watching it now. I'd say, just do it at an appropriate time and place keep it clean.

:mundabhangra::mundabhangra::singhbhangra:

So partake of the banquet of life with great gusto and enjoy yourself - but do it in a way that reflects well on yourself and on the rest of us - and on our Gurus. Never forget or minimize who and what you are.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
Bhain Inderjeet Kaur ji some comments.
Do clubs and pubs and the like help us do this? I have not been in a club since the 1980's and I remember it as crowded, very loud and full of tobacco smoke. I think most places no longer allow smoking; the smoke alone was enough to get me to turn around and walk out.
Bhain ji I agree about the smoke part, good thing it is gone. I do slightly differ on the participation of Sikhs in places of worldly fun. An upstanding Sikh participating in the main while holding values is a great thing in such situations. The future of Sikhism is not organic growth but encouraging or at least showing others the things possible in Sikhism while still not renouncing a lot.

I think going to clubs and pubs is not forbidden, but what does it accomplish? Won't others seeing a visible Sikh in such places assume that s/he is there for the same reasons as most people are? How does this reflect on our community? For many reasons, we are not very popular in a lot of places and as much as I wish it were otherwise, I think we need to watch our public image.
Bain ji your statement is a classic one and all make when they grow old. Don't experiment while I did it, I found it of no to little value. This is reflective of the piousness in oneself wjile caring for others. However as we humans go (not just Sikhs), it usually falls on deaf ears just as it perhaps did for us way back. No harm saying though.

Everything a visible Sikh does reflects on the whole community and our Shaheeds and our Guru Sahiban. Does going to such places honor them and us? Clearly, I think it's better to avoid those places, but I think, as I said, they are not forbidden.
Bhain ji again hard to say it to be wrong. However we need to create or Sikhs to be strong by self that actions of others cannot be allowed to bring Sikhism into disrepute. If we did not do that then a young person will see this as hypocrisy. What is happening in Punjab? If this line were taken, there should have been hundreds if not thousands of threads here about Sikhs in appearance being corrupt, up and down. So a young person going out is rarely an issue while ignoring other things done bad to Sikhism is. Perhaps we can look at posts here at spn. There are known characters continuously and unashamedly engaged in mis-directing Sikhism. It seems very few are taking note. We need to be reasonable and transparent in such situations.

As for dancing, I love dancing. I loved doing it when I was younger and I love watching it now. I'd say, just do it at an appropriate time and place keep it clean.

:mundabhangra::mundabhangra::singhbhangra:
I like dancing too. Where ever you are, if your heart starts to tap, your fingers start to tap, your feet start to tap, it is a place for dancing mundahug. There is virtually no emotional display purer than dancing as it is in such that your body becomes willing to expend energy without a purpose other than to show happiness and feeling good.
Sat Sri Akal and thanks for your post. peacesign
 

Inderjeet Kaur

Writer
SPNer
Oct 13, 2011
869
1,763
Seattle, Washington, USA
Bhain Inderjeet Kaur ji some comments.

Sat Sri Akal and thanks for your post. peacesign
OMG, are you suggesting that I'm getting old? Ah, well, the alternative is getting dead and Satguru has not yet called me home. cheerleader

You quoted my whole post except for the very end, which I think bears repeating, so here it is:

"So partake of the banquet of life with great gusto and enjoy yourself - but do it in a way that reflects well on yourself and on the rest of us - and on our Gurus. Never forget or minimize who and what you are."

(I have heard that people who quote themselves may have other nasty habit. I do, I do, but that's not for discussion here.) lol
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
OMG, are you suggesting that I'm getting old? Ah, well, the alternative is getting dead and Satguru has not yet called me home. cheerleader

You quoted my whole post except for the very end, which I think bears repeating, so here it is:

"So partake of the banquet of life with great gusto and enjoy yourself - but do it in a way that reflects well on yourself and on the rest of us - and on our Gurus. Never forget or minimize who and what you are."

(I have heard that people who quote themselves may have other nasty habit. I do, I do, but that's not for discussion here.) lol
Sorry Chhoti/younger Bhain Inderjeet Kaur ji, some comments. I don't see announcement of your age and I don't announce my age either. Personally I don't announce my age and the reason for me is that I don't want even the youngest of the young to have any hesitation to take me to task for things said incorrect or wrong.

I did not comment on your last paragraph as anything I said would have taken away the brilliance with which you stated so. I 110% agreed with it.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Inderjeet Kaur

Writer
SPNer
Oct 13, 2011
869
1,763
Seattle, Washington, USA
Sorry if iit makes you feel better I will say Chhoti/younger Bhain Inderjeet Kaur ji, some comments. I don't see announcement of your age and I don't announce my age either. Personally I don't announce my age and the reason for me is that I don't want even the youngest of the young to have any hesitation to take me to task for things said incorrect or wrong.

I did not comment on your last paragraph as anything I said would have taken away the brilliance with which you stated so. I 110% agreed with it.

Sat Sri Akal.
LOL, in 29 days, I will celebrate my 60th birthday and I am quite pleased, heck, ecstatically pleased with that fact. I never thought I'd make it.

I don't think the young here have any hesitation in taking on any of us greybeards. (I do qualify, having a few stray hairs growing out of my chin.)
 

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