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Can someone please shed light on why some Sikhs observe Pooranmashi and Shangrandh, thank you
Pooranmashi, Shangrand What Gives?
- Thread starter Harry Haller
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Puranmashi (full moon) day is considered to be very auspicious as Guru Nanak Dev Ji Advent was on a full moon day. Baba ji used to observe that remaining awake throughout the full moon night gives immense spiritual and worldly benefits.
However , remaining awake on the night preceding the day of Puranmashi on the day of advent of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, confers such benefits, which one will get by remaining awake throughout the year.
However , remaining awake on the night preceding the day of Puranmashi on the day of advent of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, confers such benefits, which one will get by remaining awake throughout the year.
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Kamalji
thank you sister for your kind information.
What about Shangrandh?
thank you sister for your kind information.
What about Shangrandh?
It can be verified by WereGuru ! I too remain awake and then grow hairier and howl at the full moon. Can anyone shed light on why one observes anothers observations?
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Amanji
Kamala is a most useful source of information about a lot of the rituals and ceremonies within Sikhism, including lots of Vedic ones.
I find her knowledge on these matters hugely beneficial, but she is unlikely to provide any verifiable references. However the minefield of information that is passed down in social groups, families, is useful to know. It comes from the same camp as Guru Gobind Singhji's multiple wives, reincarnation, yoga, idol worship, etc etc
I for one, am sincerely glad that we have such a person, clearly with a good heart, on the forum.
Kamala is a most useful source of information about a lot of the rituals and ceremonies within Sikhism, including lots of Vedic ones.
I find her knowledge on these matters hugely beneficial, but she is unlikely to provide any verifiable references. However the minefield of information that is passed down in social groups, families, is useful to know. It comes from the same camp as Guru Gobind Singhji's multiple wives, reincarnation, yoga, idol worship, etc etc
I for one, am sincerely glad that we have such a person, clearly with a good heart, on the forum.
harry Ji,
the qualifying word in your quest above is "SOME"...you see.."SOME"...combined with "SIKHS" IS the answer !!
Some Sikhs will DO ANYTHING !!
They will observe sangrands, pooranmashis, ashubh and shubh avsars...
They will go to Hanuman Mandirs, Shiv mandirs, nainna Devi, and get the Bananas, the coconuts, the tilaks whatever blessings
They will charrah chholehs kacaurees mahan dee dall etc on Saturdays Shanni Vaar to keep the WRATH of the Shanni Devta away from themsleves
They will also go to Gurdwaras, and bring along chholays, black daal, coconuts, bananas etc on certain auspicious days to get a guarantee from Guru Ji also just as insurance that whatever they got form the Mandir will work..DOUBLE SURE INSURANCE.
They will tie rakhrees, they will observe lohree, diwali...
They will keep Karva Chauth and other fasts etc
They will go to pilgrimages like Hemkunt naina devi, Mannikaran, etc
They will drink water from the Feet washing chubachas for humility cultivation (actually save themsleves form bad luck, diseases etc)
They will matha tek at each and every turn..seated in buses they will bow to GREEEN GRAVES even if seen in the far distant fields...they will bow to everything along the way left and right keeping a sharp eye that they dont miss a bow to an important pir's place along the way and thus earn his wrath and displeasure
they will go to deras to get baba jis blessings, make their wives pregnant, get ONLY baby BOYS and avoid baby Girls (abort them if Guru ji makes a mistake)
They will be the ones wearing RED THREADS on their wrists - some will also wera the karra others will only keep the babaji thread
They will go to astrologers pandits for kundlais and auspicious days
They will do jagrats, angar kirtans, bhajans in fact participate gustfully in each CROWD EVENT..
They will attend Ramlilas just as much as Nagar Kirtans
They will DRINK AMRIT at each and every Amrit Sanchaar..even those held during Nagar Kirtans or such public events
They will do as little as possible paath/or read Gurbani as its very difficult, time consuming and in a language centuries old...hence out of touch..
The LIST is ENDLESS...peacesignpeacesignpeacesignpeacesignpeacesign
I don't ever associate such activities to sikhism itself.
I acknowledge them to be more of a cultural issue, just like the many other cultural activities carried out by people belonging to the sikh faith.
It is like you mentioned, only some sikhs that pursue these activities.
However, we do find a large turnout in numbers going to the gurdwara on days like shangraad.
The gurdwara will hold a special diwan with ragi and kirtan..etc..
This is just in line with the increased numbers attending.
Its a catch 22 situation...YOU ask the Gurdwara parbhandaks..WHY you hold Diwan on Sangrandh when SGGS says DIFFERENTLY ? The answer is sangat wnats to come..what we can do ??
You ask the sangat why they go to gurdwra on sangrandh ? the answer..Gurdwar has a special diwan..so we attend !!
IN BOTH ANSWERS..WHAT THE GURU COMMANDS doesnt figure even 1% !!
100% MANMATT - sanctioned by BOTH gurdwara comitee and sangats. Shows the DEGRADATION from the TRUE NORTH of SGGS...nearly 180 Degrees away !!
And whats even more astonishing..the HUKMNAMAH or Gurbani may be read and it may outrightly CONDEMN what the sangat is doing....BUT since its all a RITUAL...no one raises even an eyebrow at what the Guru is saying compared to what we are Doing...the SGGS is just for lip service show only.
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Yes, they are cultural issues, not Sikh ones. That makes complete sense, and at some point in our life we have all done something on Gyanijis list, myself included
:sippingcoffee:
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even wolves get insecure about whether they are howling correctly
Hardip Singh
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We have nothing to do with all these Puranmashi/Masaya/Sangrand. All these events are based on Pandits Jantri when the Sun will be entering a particular phase. Guru Nanak Sahib had clearly denouced all such observations.
But from where this problem starts.......our own centre of Sikhism " Harmandir Sahib". Every such event is clearly advertised there (near Hukamnama) in the parkirma well before so that people are bound to observe. Shame on the management of our scarced place. Similliar is the case of Akhand Jyot inside the holy senctrum.
But from where this problem starts.......our own centre of Sikhism " Harmandir Sahib". Every such event is clearly advertised there (near Hukamnama) in the parkirma well before so that people are bound to observe. Shame on the management of our scarced place. Similliar is the case of Akhand Jyot inside the holy senctrum.
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Its rotten from the top down............
itsmaneet
SPNer
Well, its a nice topic but useless to some extent as well. Coz for the useless souls like me, when I was a kid, elders use to say that if u missed going to Gurudwara previous month then surely go to Gurudwara on Sangrandh as it marks the end to all your sins of last month. But having understood Gurbani in a better way with my age & of course with the blessings of 'WAHEGURU' I believe that "Almighty" never made any discrimination be it humans, nature etc... If Sandgrand is a holy day then for me other days are equally holy as well.
Infact that day itself is a holy day when you wake up at Amritwela, do Nitnem & always remember Almighty in your heart other all days are useless....
Infact that day itself is a holy day when you wake up at Amritwela, do Nitnem & always remember Almighty in your heart other all days are useless....
That means the sins last only a month?
Many times I have felt like blowing away the Akhand Jot :grinningsingh:
i blew out so many such so called akhand jyots to prove to myself that if its really akhand..it cant be blown out..and if it goes out then its NOT what it is said to be..
THE SGGS is the REAL AKHAND JYOT of GYAAN..which cannot be blown out by anyone..but we poor humans are so small minded that we take a small fire to be equal to the Creator..
So called Akhand Jyots are always lit BEHIND GLASS CASES..protected form the wind gusts and mischief makers like myself...whereas the SGGS is right in the OPEN for all to make use of to SEE and remove the DA:happysingh:RKNESS of our MINDS...
THE SGGS is the REAL AKHAND JYOT of GYAAN..which cannot be blown out by anyone..but we poor humans are so small minded that we take a small fire to be equal to the Creator..
So called Akhand Jyots are always lit BEHIND GLASS CASES..protected form the wind gusts and mischief makers like myself...whereas the SGGS is right in the OPEN for all to make use of to SEE and remove the DA:happysingh:RKNESS of our MINDS...
Well, where can we really go from here ??
We can raise this issue of complete manmatt here, but what does a sacred shrine like harmandir sahib do to set an example ?
I have come across some ill fitting practices carried out at gurdwaras during the years that have been phased out, such as the lighting of numerous josh sticks or 'toofh', having chairs and floor seating in langar hall leveled out to just having floor seating and a few chairs for the less abled circumstances.
The akhand jyot is beyond a joke. If you can't feel the 'jyot' of the sri guru granth sahib, then you can light as many candles and lamps and 100w bulbs as you possibly can but you still won't see or feel it.
Harry ji
Pooranmashi means night of full moon and Sangrand means the first day of month.
Here at the local Gurudwara sangrand is celebrated every month but i have not seen similar celebrations for Pooranmashi.
All they do on Sangrand here is that they call a raagi jathha whhich sings Shabads till 9 pm and after that there is Ardas and bhog followed by Langar.
Basically the only thiing that is different on Sangrand is that there is Keertan till 9 - 9:30 pm and Langar, where as on other days the Gurudwara closes little early.
Pooranmashi means night of full moon and Sangrand means the first day of month.
Here at the local Gurudwara sangrand is celebrated every month but i have not seen similar celebrations for Pooranmashi.
All they do on Sangrand here is that they call a raagi jathha whhich sings Shabads till 9 pm and after that there is Ardas and bhog followed by Langar.
Basically the only thiing that is different on Sangrand is that there is Keertan till 9 - 9:30 pm and Langar, where as on other days the Gurudwara closes little early.
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Cudos to my Gurdwara, I didn't even know of any of these practices until now! My Gurdwara is so strict about such things, we don't even have any weapons between where you matha tek and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There is a small flat khanda and then the palki smack bang in front of you. So intimate.
The idea of akhand jyot is interesting because Hindu culture is not the only one to have that custom. The Greeks and the Celts I believe also had similar customs, usually the flame was dedicated to a particular Goddess. I can see how it was a valuable custom to our ancient ancestors who may have struggled to light their own fires so keeping a flame burning was important to them at the time, and they must have indeed deified fire for what it meant to human development - cooking, health, comfort.
And it is a testament to Sikhi's position as a later evolutionary religion that we should definitely move away from keeping a fire burning and 100% realise the real fire is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I'm guilty of the astrology item on Gyaniji's list. My mum is heavily into Western astrology, palmistry, tarot, numerology, horoscope so I was raised with all those things. She often tells me my horoscope from the newspaper and tells me what the 'psychics' tell her about me and my life - but I don't pay attention anymore.
The strangest thing was my Catholic friend recently divorced from her husband and was telling me about the man she's seeing (who has a girlfriend) and how she saw a psychic who said in a few months she would be with him and then she was telling me she was thinking about spending $3000 on a magic spell to get him to leave his girlfriend and be with her... So Sikhs are not the only one who mix strange cultural practices into their lives with their religion tells them not to... it's a human failing.
The idea of akhand jyot is interesting because Hindu culture is not the only one to have that custom. The Greeks and the Celts I believe also had similar customs, usually the flame was dedicated to a particular Goddess. I can see how it was a valuable custom to our ancient ancestors who may have struggled to light their own fires so keeping a flame burning was important to them at the time, and they must have indeed deified fire for what it meant to human development - cooking, health, comfort.
And it is a testament to Sikhi's position as a later evolutionary religion that we should definitely move away from keeping a fire burning and 100% realise the real fire is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I'm guilty of the astrology item on Gyaniji's list. My mum is heavily into Western astrology, palmistry, tarot, numerology, horoscope so I was raised with all those things. She often tells me my horoscope from the newspaper and tells me what the 'psychics' tell her about me and my life - but I don't pay attention anymore.
The strangest thing was my Catholic friend recently divorced from her husband and was telling me about the man she's seeing (who has a girlfriend) and how she saw a psychic who said in a few months she would be with him and then she was telling me she was thinking about spending $3000 on a magic spell to get him to leave his girlfriend and be with her... So Sikhs are not the only one who mix strange cultural practices into their lives with their religion tells them not to... it's a human failing.
OK, we do have a 'catch 22' situation with Gurdwara diwans and programmes and the attending sangat, as Gyanji has kindly pointed out.
With this in mind, we have to inform the sangat that yes, the kirtan may go on longer after 9pm on sangraad and so will the langar- but we shouldn't treat this particular day as special or unique with magical powers...etc....instead as the sangat seems interested due to the start of a new month it is just an excuse to connect with the lord.
Lets Say, the person who can never find a few moments in their working week to just 'matha tek' -then this very person can have this monthly reminder to do just that!!
So, I think that to get the message across that the day like any other is no different and that it helps in having an excuse for all to connect and jap the naam for a few moments if possible, is what we need to get across. It's important that people can understand this and not have spiritual obligations or beliefs that sins will be washed on this day only..etc...
I mean, most of us have attended a diwan because a certain ragi has a 2hr slot there on a certain day. We end up going there and being in connection with the Guru and the surroundings.- This is good, it's good for us and our faith. It is another excuse to get us there in the 1st place on a night that would normally be spent watching sports or in the bar with friends.
What better way to spend an evening before bed time then go to sleep not even knowing if we will wake up the next day-
-In all honesty there are some places and venues that in the past, I have been to on many a nights.- I surely would NOT want to be remembered that I was at such and such a place the night before I died...for example.
My message is simply that whatever excuse it takes to get us to connect and matha tek the guru, then we should go ahead but NOT fall in to the trap of Worshipping the Excuse!!!! To treat and regard the day, person or gathering as holy is the completely wrong manner. We should be careful of these misleading trappings.
Waheguru
With this in mind, we have to inform the sangat that yes, the kirtan may go on longer after 9pm on sangraad and so will the langar- but we shouldn't treat this particular day as special or unique with magical powers...etc....instead as the sangat seems interested due to the start of a new month it is just an excuse to connect with the lord.
Lets Say, the person who can never find a few moments in their working week to just 'matha tek' -then this very person can have this monthly reminder to do just that!!
So, I think that to get the message across that the day like any other is no different and that it helps in having an excuse for all to connect and jap the naam for a few moments if possible, is what we need to get across. It's important that people can understand this and not have spiritual obligations or beliefs that sins will be washed on this day only..etc...
I mean, most of us have attended a diwan because a certain ragi has a 2hr slot there on a certain day. We end up going there and being in connection with the Guru and the surroundings.- This is good, it's good for us and our faith. It is another excuse to get us there in the 1st place on a night that would normally be spent watching sports or in the bar with friends.
What better way to spend an evening before bed time then go to sleep not even knowing if we will wake up the next day-
-In all honesty there are some places and venues that in the past, I have been to on many a nights.- I surely would NOT want to be remembered that I was at such and such a place the night before I died...for example.
My message is simply that whatever excuse it takes to get us to connect and matha tek the guru, then we should go ahead but NOT fall in to the trap of Worshipping the Excuse!!!! To treat and regard the day, person or gathering as holy is the completely wrong manner. We should be careful of these misleading trappings.
Waheguru
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