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Sects Nanaksar Movement

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Amarjit Singh ji,
Can you please describe this darshan?
BhagatSingh veer ji is visualization different than a Darshan? The reason I ask is that perhaps based on my upbringing from the same area as the Guru jis, based on some of the paintings, the use of metaphors in Gurbani, I can almost get a Darshan (it may or may not have anything to do with reality!) anytime I want. My scenario is Guru ji sitting and a gathering around them that they are discussing or stating Gurbani to. This is no flippant comment but an actual and humbling visualization that comes into play when I try to translate Gurbani or study the same.

Any thoughts!

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Yes Veerji I understand where you are coming from. Visualization is not it. Darshan is more akin to a vision or a revelation. It is an inner seeing, insight. It is enlightenment.
It is not a hallucination or a dream (A mind that cannot differentiate between hallucinations and darshan cannot know whether it has had a darshan). It is reality in its utmost clarity. It is entirely intuitive and quite rare (even more so without meditation).

In this shabad, Guru Ramdas ji expresses his desire for Hari darshan.
ਗੋਂਡ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
गोंड महला ४ ॥
Gond mėhlā 4.
Gond, Fourth Mehl:

ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਉ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਬਹੁ ਤਪਤੈ ਜਿਉ ਤ੍ਰਿਖਾਵੰਤੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਨੀਰ ॥੧॥
हरि दरसन कउ मेरा मनु बहु तपतै जिउ त्रिखावंतु बिनु नीर ॥१॥
Har ḏarsan ka▫o merā man baho ṯapṯai ji▫o ṯarikẖāvaʼnṯ bin nīr. ||1||
My mind yearns so deeply for the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan, like the thirsty man without water. ||1||

ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੁ ਲਗੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੀਰ ॥
मेरै मनि प्रेमु लगो हरि तीर ॥
Merai man parem lago har ṯīr.
My mind is pierced through by the arrow of the Lord's Love.

ਹਮਰੀ ਬੇਦਨ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਪੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हमरी बेदन हरि प्रभु जानै मेरे मन अंतर की पीर ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Hamrī beḏan har parabẖ jānai mere man anṯar kī pīr. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Lord God knows my anguish, and the pain deep within my mind. ||1||Pause||

ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕੀ ਕੋਈ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਭਾਈ ਸੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਬੀਰ ॥੨॥
मेरे हरि प्रीतम की कोई बात सुनावै सो भाई सो मेरा बीर ॥२॥
Mere har parīṯam kī ko▫ī bāṯ sunāvai so bẖā▫ī so merā bīr. ||2||
Whoever tells me the Stories of my Beloved Lord is my Sibling of Destiny, and my friend. ||2||

ਮਿਲੁ ਮਿਲੁ ਸਖੀ ਗੁਣ ਕਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇ ਲੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਧੀਰ ॥੩॥
मिलु मिलु सखी गुण कहु मेरे प्रभ के ले सतिगुर की मति धीर ॥३॥
Mil mil sakẖī guṇ kaho mere parabẖ ke le saṯgur kī maṯ ḏẖīr. ||3||
Come, and join together, O my companions; let's sing the Glorious Praises of my God, and follow the comforting advice of the True Guru.. ||3||

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੀ ਹਰਿ ਆਸ ਪੁਜਾਵਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਰੀਰ ॥੪॥੬॥ ਛਕਾ ੧॥
जन नानक की हरि आस पुजावहु हरि दरसनि सांति सरीर ॥४॥६॥ छका १॥
Jan Nānak kī har ās pujāvahu har ḏarsan sāʼnṯ sarīr. ||4||6|| Cẖẖakā 1||
Please fulfill the hopes of servant Nanak, O Lord; his body finds peace and tranquility in the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||4||6|| Chhakaa 1.||

http://www.sikhnet.com/audio_play/track,8569,10803
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Its a Historically known FACT..that when Guru Angad Ji was bestowed the Gurgaddee..there is NOT a single written/oral skahi etc whereby SIKHS continued to "yearn" for and get the "Darshan" of GURU NANAK JI Sahib...Sikhs hwo lived practically their netire lives with Guru nanak ji..Baba Budha Ji etc..also didnt "get darsahn" of GURU NANAK JI..as the Nanaksariah babas Nanad Singh ishar Singh etc CLAIM to have done so. When Guur nanak ji passed on and Bhai Lehnna Ji transformed into Guru ANGAD JI..it was GURU ANGAD JI that sikhs saw, had darshan of..and bowed to.
The EXACT SAME scenario was REPEATED with each succeessor NANAK...when Guur Angad Ji passed on and Bhai Amardass Ji became Guru AMARDASS JI...no one ever again caimed he ahd "darshan" of Guur Angad Ji or Guur nanak ji...or that he set down a plate of jalebis and meditated until "GURU NANAK JI/GURU ANGAD JI" materialised in darshan Form and ATE the Thaal clean !!. Any SIKH who had a wish/desire to feed the GURU with a Thaal of Jalebis brought it to GURU AMARDASS Jis presence !!
Exact same thing was repeated till the GURGADEE was bestowed on SGGS.
1. The Namdharees FLAT OUT REFUSE to accept THIS FACT. They were however open enough/honest enough to CREATE their own .... EXTRA Judicial GURUS...claiming the Gurgadee after Guru Gobind Singh Ji...

2. BUT certain men couldnt accept the SGGS as the DEFACTO and TRUE SUccessor of GURU NANAK....but also DIDNT HAVE the honesty/guts of the Namdharees to make a clean break...these so called Brahmgyanis began to make claims that they were privileged to have "PHYSICAL DARSHAN" of GURU NANAK Ji out of the SGGS...and this physical entity ate food etc..etc...and they began to preach the SGGS as a " PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY that needs clothes, special air conditioned rooms, winter clothing, summer clothing etc etc..and this Human Body Manifests IF the sikh genuinely LOVES the SGGS so much ??? and of course the snat loves the sggs that much that Guru nanak ji appears every now and then to eat his food. IN part due to this Many HUNDREDS of SGGS birs/sukhsasn rooms have actually SHORT CIRCUITED and BURNT DOWN...becasue the air cons and fans etc left ON 24/7 to COOL the sleeping GURU..are not GUARDED 24/7 so that such incidents dont happen !! Very FEW ( in fact NONE) of the same Sants/Brahmgyanis have ever been "burnt" in such short circuits in their Thaaths/deras ???? Doest this anamoly mean anything ?? a real food consumimng human sant almost NEVER burns down in a short circuit fire in his bedroom...BUT HUNDREDS of SGGS do in fact get burnt each YEAR...Did the Fire just burn the actual physical Granth sahib or the "Guru nanak" within as well ?? was the GURU not burnt ?? didnt he say anything to the "SANT" that installed the air conditions/fans ???

ALL this is due to the FACT that the correct gurmatt explanation/menaing of "DARSHAN" has been brought down to the level of uneducated simpletons...soemthing to be SEEN with ones EYES....when GURBANI clearly tells us that EYES to see the SHABAD are NOT these physicla eyes....DARSHAN of the SHABAD is not just "seeing a vision"..its FOLLOWING the shabad and adapting our LIFE to the Shabad....becoem NIRBHAU..become NIRVAIR...dyawaan..compassionate..loving..as the SHABAD IS.

On the return journey form Hemkunt someone asked...Were YOU lucky enough to have "darshan" of Guru Gobind Singh ji..riding his blue steed with baaj in hand ?? many claim this...the Gurmatt reply is: ANY SIKH who cant have Darshan of the Ten Gurus in the SGGS..isnt worthy of his salt....Guur Ji is not hanging about riding horses in the mountains or waiting around in hazoor sahib..HE is PRESENT each moment in the SGGS..waiting when we will FOLLOW WHAT HE WROTE DOWN for us in SGGS.
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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I would say darshan allows love, compassion, humility, patience, contentment, kindness and truthfulness, to manifest in their pure forms in the individual, and often times do during a darshan. Guru Ramdas ji is already living the message of his Guru but still yearns for Hari darshan because it allows the individual to live the message more fully.
 

Harry Haller

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Jan 31, 2011
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BhagatSingh veer ji is visualization different than a Darshan? The reason I ask is that perhaps based on my upbringing from the same area as the Guru jis, based on some of the paintings, the use of metaphors in Gurbani, I can almost get a Darshan (it may or may not have anything to do with reality!) anytime I want. My scenario is Guru ji sitting and a gathering around them that they are discussing or stating Gurbani to. This is no flippant comment but an actual and humbling visualization that comes into play when I try to translate Gurbani or study the same.

Any thoughts!

Sat Sri Akal.
I would almost certainly say I do not do Darshan, but Veer Bhagat Singhji would probably disagree, my definition of Darshan is reading Gurbani and as the result of following such, watching my life become better, more peaceful, more focused, and thinking of my past, and how focusing on such platinum words would have stopped a lot of the things I have been through happening in the first place, and also reliving past scenes and mentally seeing how the outcome would have changed if I had an interest in Bani then, I give Darshan to Creator and Creation, and respect and bow to our Gurus for achieving in full the frequency of the eternal one

Not very exciting, sorry!
 

BaljinderS

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Dec 29, 2011
171
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Its a Historically known FACT..that when Guru Angad Ji was bestowed the Gurgaddee..there is NOT a single written/oral skahi etc whereby SIKHS continued to "yearn" for and get the "Darshan" of GURU NANAK JI Sahib...Sikhs hwo lived practically their netire lives with Guru nanak ji..Baba Budha Ji etc..also didnt "get darsahn" of GURU NANAK JI..as the Nanaksariah babas Nanad Singh ishar Singh etc CLAIM to have done so. When Guru nanak ji passed on and Bhai Lehnna Ji transformed into Guru ANGAD JI..it was GURU ANGAD JI that sikhs saw, had darshan of..and bowed to.
The EXACT SAME scenario was REPEATED with each succeessor NANAK...when Guru Angad Ji passed on and Bhai Amardass Ji became Guru AMARDASS JI...no one ever again caimed he ahd "darshan" of Guru Angad Ji or Guru nanak ji...or that he set down a plate of jalebis and meditated until "GURU NANAK JI/GURU ANGAD JI" materialised in darshan Form and ATE the Thaal clean !!. Any SIKH who had a wish/desire to feed the GURU with a Thaal of Jalebis brought it to GURU AMARDASS Jis presence !!
Exact same thing was repeated till the GURGADEE was bestowed on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
1. The Namdharees FLAT OUT REFUSE to accept THIS FACT. They were however open enough/honest enough to CREATE their own .... EXTRA Judicial GURUS...claiming the Gurgadee after Guru Gobind Singh Ji...

2. BUT certain men couldnt accept the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the DEFACTO and TRUE SUccessor of GURU NANAK....but also DIDNT HAVE the honesty/guts of the Namdharees to make a clean break...these so called Brahmgyanis began to make claims that they were privileged to have "PHYSICAL DARSHAN" of GURU NANAK Ji out of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...and this physical entity ate food etc..etc...and they began to preach the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a " PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY that needs clothes, special air conditioned rooms, winter clothing, summer clothing etc etc..and this Human Body Manifests IF the sikh genuinely LOVES the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so much ??? and of course the snat loves the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that much that Guru nanak ji appears every now and then to eat his food. IN part due to this Many HUNDREDS of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji birs/sukhsasn rooms have actually SHORT CIRCUITED and BURNT DOWN...becasue the air cons and fans etc left ON 24/7 to COOL the sleeping GURU..are not GUARDED 24/7 so that such incidents dont happen !! Very FEW ( in fact NONE) of the same Sants/Brahmgyanis have ever been "burnt" in such short circuits in their Thaaths/deras ???? Doest this anamoly mean anything ?? a real food consumimng human sant almost NEVER burns down in a short circuit fire in his bedroom...BUT HUNDREDS of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji do in fact get burnt each YEAR...Did the Fire just burn the actual physical Granth sahib or the "Guru nanak" within as well ?? was the GURU not burnt ?? didnt he say anything to the "SANT" that installed the air conditions/fans ???

ALL this is due to the FACT that the correct gurmatt explanation/menaing of "DARSHAN" has been brought down to the level of uneducated simpletons...soemthing to be SEEN with ones EYES....when GURBANI clearly tells us that EYES to see the SHABAD are NOT these physicla eyes....DARSHAN of the SHABAD is not just "seeing a vision"..its FOLLOWING the shabad and adapting our LIFE to the Shabad....becoem NIRBHAU..become NIRVAIR...dyawaan..compassionate..loving..as the SHABAD IS.

On the return journey form Hemkunt someone asked...Were YOU lucky enough to have "darshan" of Guru Gobind Singh ji..riding his blue steed with baaj in hand ?? many claim this...the Gurmatt reply is: ANY SIKH who cant have Darshan of the Ten Gurus in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..isnt worthy of his salt....Guru Ji is not hanging about riding horses in the mountains or waiting around in hazoor sahib..HE is PRESENT each moment in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..waiting when we will FOLLOW WHAT HE WROTE DOWN for us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Veer Ji, the pakhandies have a dug themselves a well that is so deep that its very difficult for them to see the light. The creator sees all so they carry on with their pakhand to feed their ego. Fools will be fools...

-------------
The Gurbani compares a fool (Moorakh) with an empty vessel.

ਸੰਤਨ ਸਿਉ ਬੋਲੇ ਉਪਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਮੂਰਖ ਸਿਉ ਬੋਲੇ ਝਖ ਮਾਰੀ ॥੨॥੩॥ ॥੪॥੧॥:

Speaking with the Saints, one becomes generous. To speak with a fool is to babble uselessly (ਵਿਅਰਥ ਖਪ-ਖਪਾ). By speaking with fools (i.e., in his association), only corruption (Bikaars) increases. ||2||

If I do not speak, what can the wretch do (i.e., we must only speak with the saintly people)? ||3|| Says Kabeer, the empty pitcher makes noise, but that which is full makes no sound (i.e., the fool or the person empty of virtues talks too much, but the wise or the person full of virtues does not) ||4||1|| (sggs 870).
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Gyani Janail Singh ji thanks and fully understood.

SGGS ji says and I believe creator to be infinite. So no possibility of Darshan as we do not have the faculties to see infinite dead or live, wake or sleep.

I noted the same from the sabad but wanted this to percolate for self realization by the Darshan believers. Veer Bhagat Singh ji is trying and at least this way he is quoting gurbani with some understanding. I know we can all help each other as we are all one.

I hope Bhagat Singh ji and Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji take the time to reflect and respond as to what seeking of any Darshan as described by Bhagat Singh ji or as experienced by Amarjit Singh Bamrah has anything to do with Sikhism and SGGS. Such are plain creations of an active mind as represented by visualizations (me), Hallucinations, make-believe or dreams.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Harry Haller

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Bhagat Singhji,

you said above

(A mind that cannot differentiate between hallucinations and reality cannot know whether it has had a darshan)

I have come across some pretty spaced out individuals in my time, but never have I come across anyone who could not differentiate between hallucinations and reality. Such people normally have severe mental problems, I assume you are talking of those without, if so, could you elaborate as I think I am missing something

:)
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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so far in the Sikhism context we seem to be at the "visible darshan" (floating figures supposedly this Guru or that Shaheed shining white lights etc etc..SILENT ONES..)...BUT i havent yet come across those who also "HEAR VOICES" ( sound darshan ??)..as we have plenty in the Christian/islamic World...as in "God whispered to me..KILL the infidel..Burn the Blackie...etc etc".. types. Perhaps this is ebcasue Sikhism is just 500 years old compared tot he 2000 year old christian/islamic religions...so i await the day when a "darshan giving Guru also INSTRUCTS VERBALLY via whispers ....KILL the Hindus..Murder the Muslims...??? as in "asikh sanghero"...is such a "Verbal Guru" at hand...will i hear such a tale within my lifetime ?? My son told me..No way..dad..Sikhism will JUMP to a CYBER GURU..He will not whisper..he will radiate thoughts..or use Gmail !! and "Beam Me Up Scotty " Stattrek type !!:singhsippingcoffee:
 
Jan 18, 2012
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Gyani means amongst other meanings - one who imparts unjudgemental wisdom and pure teachings without any EGO!

Ego means Edging God outwards
I have a small question waheguruji.

How much time have you spent on Smadhi / meditation to connect
to your inner self?

Its in meditation one hears the voice of God.

Otherwise during our normal thinking its our Manas mind the lower mind which makes the decisions
Once we tap into the infinite Grace which comes with Meditation/Samadhi we slowly come to the understanding and hear the Inner pure thoughts which manifest from our inner Godhead.

Satnaam Satnaam

Click here: Jap Mun SatNaam - Mind Repeat SatNaam - YouTube

amarjit
 

Harry Haller

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There is only one way to find Darshan, as far as I am concerned, and it does not need meditation, candles, chanting, bright lights, visions, it is when the mind is focused and calm through living, not escaping.

If one can wake up in the morning, remember God through Bani, and try as best one can, to live that day through Bani, honesty, truth, bravery, to go through the day sowing good seeds, avoiding making enemies, showing love to all, earning in an honest fashion, but also being firm and standing up for what you believe in, and you can go home, remember God through bani, and sleep peacefully in the arms of your loved one, then you have found Darshan

Others may find Darshan in different ways, and of course I respect all other methods, just not for me
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Amarjit Ji..samadhis and all that is not for a SIKH who is to be a Householder..a working perosn earning his honest earnings..and then SHARINg those with the less fortunate...that is a 24/7 JOB..leaving no time for wehlarr samadhis and meditation sessions...the Gurmatt way is to "have samadhi while the Hands work"...as even Bulleh Shah understands..hands work..the mind..dwells on Him....so as per my understanding sikh samadhi is a "working" samadhi much akin to a working holiday...
The Punjabi farmer esp during Guru nanak jis time went to the fields well before DAWN to hall-waah as much as possible...and then return home about mid-morning..take soem food, go back to the fields for doing godee, feed the milk cows milk them water them, etc etc and go back to the fileds to cut fresh grass..etc....CHARAN DHOYEH REHRASS KAR is mentioned a s a Daily routine by Bhai Gurdass Ji..BUT "samadhi/mediataion" is NOT.

Gyani.....I am NOT that type of Gyani...so please dont expect anything of that sort from me...my EGO is just as big as anyone else..even IF i have never had a vision of any Guru or sant...for me the Gyani is just a paper qualification in Punajbi langauage/literature/gurabni/sikh hsitory offered by universities...nothing more...a hobby of mine.
 

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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

This deeply spiritual and divine shabd is composed by Guru Ramdas ji and is contained on page 1200 of the SGGS.


The literal translation of the first verse is: O Son, Why Do You Argue...

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