Naming A Sikh Baby

[bhaikhalsasingh]

My brother has just been blessed with a Prince!

He has been the Gurdwara, done the ardas and got the Hukumnama (??) for naming the child. He's got the alphabet to begin the child's name with.

This alphabet is the same as his (the father) own name. We'd like the child to be named the same name as his father (like XXX Sr for the father and XXX Jr for the son).

Is this allowed in Sikh faith?

Appreciate an early response as we have only a few more days to reguster the baby and name him. Thank you.

 

[spnadmin]

Welcome bhaikhalsasingh ji

What you are asking is not typical of how a Sikh baby is named. The Sikh Rehat Maryada has laid this out in Chapter 11, section a. And I have copied it below for you.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]Chapter 11[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]Ceremonies pertaining to Birth and Naming of Child[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica] Article XVII [/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica](a) In a Sikh’s household, as soon after the birth of a child as the mother becomes capable of moving about and taking bath (irrespective of the number of days which that takes), the family and relatives should go to a gurdwara with Karah Parshad (sacred pudding) or get Karah Parshad made in the gurdwara and recite in the holy presence of the Guru Granth Sahib such hymns as “parmeshar ditta banna” (Sorath M. 5), “Satguru sache dia bhej” (Asa M. 5)) that are expressive of joy and thankfulness. Thereafter if a reading of the holy Guru Granth Sahib had been taken up, that should be concluded. Then the holy Hukam (command) should be taken. A name starting with the first letter of the hymn of the Hukam (command) should be proposed by the granthi (man in attendance of the holy book) and, after its acceptance by the congregation, the name should be announced by him. The boy’s name must have the suffix “Singh” and the girl’s, the suffix “Kaur”.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]After that the Anand Sahib (short version comprising six stanzas) should be recited and the Ardas in appropriate terms expressing joy over the naming ceremony be offered and the Karah Parshad distributed.
[/FONT]

In reality more than one name will be obvious to all in relation that one letter. So family and friends in attendance can discuss and pick.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]More details about Sikh ceremonies at this link Sikhism - Sikh Rehat Maryada
[/FONT]

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Welcome bhaikhalsasingh ji

What you are asking is not typical of how a Sikh baby is named. The Sikh Rehat Maryada has laid this out in Chapter 11, section a. And I have copied it below for you.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]Chapter 11[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]Ceremonies pertaining to Birth and Naming of Child[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica] Article XVII [/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica](a) In a Sikh’s household, as soon after the birth of a child as the mother becomes capable of moving about and taking bath (irrespective of the number of days which that takes), the family and relatives should go to a gurdwara with Karah Parshad (sacred pudding) or get Karah Parshad made in the gurdwara and recite in the holy presence of the Guru Granth Sahib such hymns as “parmeshar ditta banna” (Sorath M. 5), “Satguru sache dia bhej” (Asa M. 5)) that are expressive of joy and thankfulness. Thereafter if a reading of the holy Guru Granth Sahib had been taken up, that should be concluded. Then the holy Hukam (command) should be taken. A name starting with the first letter of the hymn of the Hukam (command) should be proposed by the granthi (man in attendance of the holy book) and, after its acceptance by the congregation, the name should be announced by him. The boy’s name must have the suffix “Singh” and the girl’s, the suffix “Kaur”.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]After that the Anand Sahib (short version comprising six stanzas) should be recited and the Ardas in appropriate terms expressing joy over the naming ceremony be offered and the Karah Parshad distributed.
[/FONT]

In reality more than one name will be obvious to all in relation that one letter. So family and friends in attendance can discuss and pick.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]More details about Sikh ceremonies at this link Sikhism - Sikh Rehat Maryada
[/FONT]

ikonkaar
Well,Well,well.
Did Guru Arjan Dev JI spend so much time and energy compiling, ,editing and setting to music SGGS so we could find names for our children?
THIS IS SHEER SUPERSTITION AND RITUALISM AND ABSOLUTELY AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF OUR GREATEST GURU, GURU NANAK.

 

[bhaikhalsasingh]

Hi, thanx for the quick response.

Firstly, I do not know why you say its "not typical" ... is it the order in which the ardas, hukumnama, etc were written by me? My ignorance.

MY QUESTION however is ... having got the 'initial' by the granthi ... it happens to be the same as the initial of the father's name .... NOW, can we name the child with the same name??

ie is it ok to have father & son named the same, eg Malkit Singh (father) and Malkit Singh (son) ????

 

[spnadmin]

jasbirkaleka ji

Let us separate facts from opinions here. The Sikh Rehat Maryada was crafted as the code of conduct which most follow. Please do not castigate this document as superstitution. Read it first. Then you will notice how time and again the Sikh Rehat Maryada warns against superstitions.

I know that your own personal journey into Sikhi has taken you down a path that challenges many of the beliefs that have held sway since the SRM was crafted. That is your choice.

But please hold your fire and don't empty all the bullets in your gun before you have taken the time to put things into context. The SRM is still the code of conduct. It has not been repealed, though Sant Samaaj would like to see that happen.

We have had this discussion before when you found me short on what counts. In the end you had to take back your words.

First make it clear that you object to the Sikh Rehat Maryada, then tell us why, then give your alternative explanation.

 

[bhaikhalsasingh]

Hmmm, Jasbir ji .... what do U mean? That we should not get the name from the SGGS ?? Then how?? Pleae enlighten me ... and QUICK ... we have to register the child soon.

 

[spnadmin]

Hi, thanx for the quick response.

Firstly, I do not know why you say its "not typical" ... is it the order in which the ardas, hukumnama, etc were written by me? My ignorance.

MY QUESTION however is ... having got the 'initial' by the granthi ... it happens to be the same as the initial of the father's name .... NOW, can we name the child with the same name??

ie is it ok to have father & son named the same, eg Malkit Singh (father) and Malkit Singh (son) ????

I see. You had already been to gurdwara for this ceremony. I misread that part. When I read your post it sounded like you were discussing a name in advance. If I have confused matters, please forgive. I was trying to say -- that the letter is drawn first and then the name is selected through discussion.

 

[bhaikhalsasingh]

Yes Narayanjot ...
We've done all the 'right' way (except Sardar Jasbir may find it unnecessary ... anyway, its done!).

My question is simply this :::: can a Sikh boy take his father's name as his own too?
(eg Malkit Singh son of Malkit Singh). In daily usaged the "son of ...." would not come into play.

 

[spnadmin]

bhaikhalsasingh ji

I am sorry I missed that originally and we have come full circle. I feel bad about that. My understanding is that culturally one does not give a baby the name of the father. More often, if it is to be a family name, a grandfather, or uncle from a different generation. As you can see the SRM does not prohibit it.

 

[bhaikhalsasingh]

As you say "As you can see the SRM does not prohibit it." ... that's really what I was looking for.

We do not plan/intend to be egoistic or anything ... but as a family, we like to be at the forefront of anything we do ... provided it is legal and allowed by our Sikh philosophy.

Yes, naming one's child the same as his father is not common in Punjabi/Sikhi culture. But the goreys do it ... Donald Trump Sr and Donald Trump Jr.

If it's allowed, we'd like to do it. Being the first often gets criticised by some and congratulated by others

And Naranyanjot ji .. no need for the apologies ... it happens when you trying to respond quickly (just like it happened to uncle Jasbir ... Kaleke is my maternal side!)

 

[spnadmin]

bhaikhalsasingh ji

I appreciate your kindness. The nice thing about the SRM is that it is so different from the lengthy lists of do's and don'ts one finds elsewhere. The matter of naming is grounded in Gurbani. SGGS is not about creating straight-jackets but about freeing us to get priorities straight and serve Akaal, the panth, and humanity. So I breathe a sigh of relief when I read it.

"And, Being the first often gets criticised by some and congratulated by others " Just smile.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

jasbirkaleka ji

Let us separate facts from opinions here. The Sikh Rehat Maryada was crafted as the code of conduct which most follow. Please do not castigate this document as superstitution. Read it first. Then you will notice how time and again the Sikh Rehat Maryada warns against superstitions.

I know that your own personal journey into Sikhi has taken you down a path that challenges many of the beliefs that have held sway since the SRM was crafted. That is your choice.

But please hold your fire and don't empty all the bullets in your gun before you have taken the time to put things into context. The SRM is still the code of conduct. It has not been repealed, though Sant Samaaj would like to see that happen.

We have had this discussion before when you found me short on what counts. In the end you had to take back your words.

First make it clear that you object to the Sikh Rehat Maryada, then tell us why, then give your alternative explanation.

GURU NANAK DEV JI IS MY FIRST TEACHER and anything that does not pass the litmus-test of his teachings is voodoo to me.

 

[Admin]

GURU NANAK DEV JI IS MY FIRST TEACHER and anything that does not pass the litmus-test of his teachings is voodoo to me.

Gurfateh Jasbir ji,

I think, you would like to elaborate on your statement. Did you mean to say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Thank You

 

[bhaikhalsasingh]

Thank you Aman Singh ji, Narayanjot ji and Jasbir ji ... the response was quick and has cleared certain doubts in my mind.

Aside from the little 'drama' in couple of the posts above, the discussions have been to-the-point, clear and most importantly as I had hoped, fast. We can now proceed with the registration process.

I'd like to offer my appreciation here to Aman Singh ji for the very professional forum here. To be honest, this wasn't the first place I visited in seeking this info. For example, on SikhNet (definitely better known), there was hardly any response and the couple that trickled thru argued about certain semantics, etc.

Here, we had the site's admins step in and offer guidance to newbies like me. I like that!

There should be no doubt which forum I'd be visiting more in the future as well as recommending to my friends

Thank you once again. May Waheguru bless the great seva Aman Singh & his team is doing.

 

[spnadmin]

Your response could not be more encouraging for us!

 

[choprakj]

Unneccessary Discussions,The Hukumnama guides towards intial only why your child has to be named same as you,'M" Can be Manvinder,MohanJot,Manmaohan.........................................................

Regards,& Best Wishes


KJSrangesingh:

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Gurfateh Jasbir ji,

I think, you would like to elaborate on your statement. Did you mean to say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Thank You[/QUOTE


Aman Singh Ji,
Guru Fateh.
Do you really believe that there can be or should be a differance between the teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

 

[findingmyway]

Jasbir ji,
I agree that the Guru Granth Sahib ji is the litmus test. I am however at a loss to understand how you can reject the entire SRM as it was formed based on the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib ji. Sometimes the misunderstanding is ours as we do not know about the historical event that has triggered a particular clause for example. It probably does need updating considering that time has moved on but to say the whole thing is voodoo seems incredibly strong and shows lack of understanding of the spirit & purpose of the document.

 

[spnadmin]

Sangat ji

I have already put 2 other members on notice that references to SRM as mumbo jumbo or similar perjorative terms are violations of TOS, and will be dealt with accordingly. This is a warning for this thread.

for those who have a sincere interest in the philosophy and history of SRM there are many good resources. Here is one of them. I will add more.

http://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=583&cat=19

Here is another one

http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_072205a.html

And another on gender and sex

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/29191-gender-sex-sikhism-i-j-singh.html

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Jasbir ji,
I agree that the Guru Granth Sahib ji is the litmus test. I am however at a loss to understand how you can reject the entire SRM as it was formed based on the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib ji. Sometimes the misunderstanding is ours as we do not know about the historical event that has triggered a particular clause for example. It probably does need updating considering that time has moved on but to say the whole thing is voodoo seems incredibly strong and shows lack of understanding of the spirit & purpose of the document.

findingmyway ji,
SSA,
I have never ever said that the entire SRM is voodoo. It is a document. (editor's deletion)