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'Naam' - My Understanding

Jan 5, 2011
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Jgt Khalsa ji, You have given nothing but your wisdom on this thread. But i think your mention of Kundalini Yoga may have distracted other members from it. Lol
Anyways, let's see how their disagreement with you goes on.

I agree with most things you said. One of the things I disagree with is this quoted above.
There are techniques given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on how to meditate. On page 8:
<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਜਤੁ ਪਾਹਾਰਾ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ
जतु पाहारा धीरजु सुनिआरु ॥
Jaṯ pāhārā ḏẖīraj suni▫ār.
Let self-control be the furnace, and patience the goldsmith.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ
अहरणि मति वेदु हथीआरु ॥
Ahraṇ maṯ veḏ hathī▫ār.
Let understanding be the anvil, and spiritual wisdom the tools.

</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#babac7"><td> ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ
भउ खला अगनि तप ताउ ॥
Bẖa▫o kẖalā agan ṯap ṯā▫o.
With the Fear of God as the bellows, fan the flames of tapa, the body's inner heat.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ
भांडा भाउ अम्रितु तितु ढालि ॥
Bẖāʼndā bẖā▫o amriṯ ṯiṯ dẖāl.
In the crucible of love, melt the Nectar of the Name,

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ
घड़ीऐ सबदु सची टकसाल ॥
Gẖaṛī▫ai sabaḏ sacẖī taksāl.
and mint the True Coin of the Shabad, the Word of God.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰ
जिन कउ नदरि करमु तिन कार ॥
Jin ka▫o naḏar karam ṯin kār.
Such is the karma of those upon whom He has cast His Glance of Grace.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
नानक नदरी नदरि निहाल ॥३८॥
Nānak naḏrī naḏar nihāl. ||38||
O Nanak, the Merciful Lord, by His Grace, uplifts and exalts them. ||38|| </td></tr></tbody></table>
On page 49 Guru Arjan Dev ji says:
ਰਸਨਾ ਸਚਾ ਸਿਮਰੀਐ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇ
रसना सचा सिमरीऐ मनु तनु निरमलु होइ ॥
Rasnā sacẖā simrī▫ai man ṯan nirmal ho▫e.
With your tongue, repeat the True Name, and your mind and body shall become pure.

From this shabad on page 18, http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=18&L=17&id=775, we find the following:
ਧਾਤੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਫੁਨਿ ਧਾਤੁ ਕਉ ਸਿਫਤੀ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ
धातु मिलै फुनि धातु कउ सिफती सिफति समाइ ॥
Ḏẖāṯ milai fun ḏẖāṯ ka▫o sifṯī sifaṯ samā▫e.
As metal merges with metal, those who chant the Praises of the Lord are absorbed into the Praiseworthy Lord.
ਲਾਲੁ ਗੁਲਾਲੁ ਗਹਬਰਾ ਸਚਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਚੜਾਉ
लालु गुलालु गहबरा सचा रंगु चड़ाउ ॥
Lāl gulāl gahbarā sacẖā rang cẖaṛā▫o.
Like the poppies, they are dyed in the deep crimson color of Truthfulness.
ਸਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੰਤੋਖੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਏਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥੧॥
सचु मिलै संतोखीआ हरि जपि एकै भाइ ॥१॥
Sacẖ milai sanṯokẖī▫ā har jap ekai bẖā▫e. ||1||
Those contented souls who meditate on the Lord with single-minded love, meet the True Lord. ||1||

I could go on actually... there are a wealth of shabads that explain how to meditate but I think i captured the gist of it with these.
Perhaps, kundalini yog is not necessary for a Sikh. I don't advocate for or against it, but that is not the method of meditation prescribed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If there is any yog prescribed in bani, its Bhagati Yog. Guru Arjan Dev ji mentions Raj Yog several times. But there is no mention of Kundalini yog.
BhagatSingh,
This is a wonderful example of how the Guru gives us a poetic description of how to meditate. How the furnace and the anvil and the hammer actually works for us average Sikhs is not clear.

Meditation is how we recognize what is true. It is a divine ability bestowed by the manifestation of the Oneness within all of us. Use of this divine gift is necessary to learn anything, yet how we exactly do it remains mysterious, but it is not unknowable. As indicated by Guru Nanak above, it is learned through grace.

Perhaps we need to discuss what grace is and how it works.
 
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Ishna

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I realised this the other night. Ambarsaria said she didn't encounter repetition of the word "Waheguru" growing up around Amritsar.

But the Rehat Maryada instructs one to do so:

[SIZE=-1]Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV

1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).
I like this statement from earlier in Rehat Maryada:

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
A Sikh's Personal Life
Article III
A Sikh's personal life should comprehend:-
i. Meditation on Nam (Divine Substance, also translated as the God's attributed self) and the scriptures,
SGPC defines Naam as Divine Substance. In Article IV it says to concentrate on God while repeating "Waheguru". This indicates to me the concentrating on God (or Divine Substance) is the key activity. Repeating Waheguru while focusing in God should cement a connection between the word Waheguru and the Divine Substance (Naam) one is concentrating on, so future repetition of word Waheguru should trigger consideration of Naam. The word is not Naam, it is a bridge to it.

I have no idea what Raj Yoga has to do with understanding Naam.

Ishna
[/SIZE]
 
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Ambarsaria

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Ishna ji and I quote and comment below with your excerpts in red,
I realised this the other night. Ambarsaria said she didn't encounter repetition of the word "Waheguru" growing up around Amritsar.
Ishna ji you really don’t need to call me he or she but definitely not she.

But the Rehat Maryada instructs one to do so:

Quote:
[SIZE=-1]Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV

1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness). [/SIZE]
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 0in;" width="0" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr style=""><td style="border: 1pt inset; padding: 0.75pt;">
</td></tr></tbody></table> Ishna ji the word Nam and its association with Simran is not specified. So the question is what does “repeat the Nam” mean.
Extremely dangerous just like Gurbani tuk quoting to quote sentences and not the whole in my opinion from Sikh Rehat Maryada.

http://sgpc.net/sikhism/punjabi/sikh-dharma-manual.asp


SKsI rihxI
1) nwm bwxI dw AiBAws[
2) gurimq dI rihxI[
3) syvw


nwm bwxI dw AiBAws

1. is`K AMimRq vyly (pihr rwq rihMdI) jwg ky ieSnwn kry Aqy iek Akwl purK dw iDAwn krdw hoieAw 'vwihgurU' nwm jpy [

2. inqnym dw pwT kry[ inqnym dIAW bwxIAW ieh hn:-

jpu, jwpu Aqy 10 sv`Xy ('sRwvg suD' vwly)- ieh bwxIAW AMimRq vyly pVHnIAW[
so dru rihrws- Swm vyly sUrj fu`by pVHnI[ ies ivc ieh bwxIAW Swml hn:-

sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI dy ivc ilKy hoey nO Sbd ('so dru' qoN lY ky 'srix pry kI rwKhu srmw' qk), bynqI cOpeI pwqSwhI 10 ('hmrI kro hwQ dy r`Cw' qoN lY ky 'dust doK qy lyhu bcweI' qk, sÍYXw ('pwie ghY jb qy qumry') Aqy dohrw ('sgl duAwr kau Cwif kY') AnMd dIAW pihlIAW pMj pauVIAW qy AMqlI iek pauVI',muMdwvxI qy slok mhlw 5 'qyrw kIqw jwqo nwhI['

soihlw- ieh bwxI rwq nUM sOx vyly pVHnI[

AMimRq vyly Aqy sodru vyly dy inqnym qoN auprMq Ardws krnI zrUuurI hY [


3. (a) Ardws ieh hY:-


<> vwihgurU jI kI &qih]
sRI BgOqI jI shwie] vwr sRI BgOqI jI kI pwqSwhI 10] ipRQm BgOqI ismir kY gur nwnk leIN iDAwie] iPr AMgd gur qy Amrdwsu rwmdwsY hoeIN shwie] Arjn hrgoibMd no ismrO sRI hirrwie] sRI hirikRSn iDAwieAY ijs ifTY siB duK jwie] qyg bhwdr ismirAY Gr nau iniD AwvY Dwie] sB QWeI hoie shwie] dsvW pwqSwh sRI gurU goibMd isMG swihb jI! sB QWeI hoie shwie] dsW pwqSwhIAW dI joq sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI dy pwT dIdwr dw iDAwn Dr ky bolo jI vwihgurU!

pMjW ipAwirAW,cOhW swihbzwidAW, cwlHIAW mukiqAW, hTIAW jpIAW, qpIAW, ijhnW nwm jipAw, vMf CikAw, dyg clweI, qyg vwhI, dyK ky Axif`T kIqw, iqnHW ipAwirAW, sicAwirAW dI kmweI dw iDAwn Dr ky, Kwlsw jI ! bolo jI vwihgurU!

ijnHW isMGW isMGxIAW ny Drm hyq sIs id`qy, bMd bMd ktwey, KoprIAW luhweIAW, crKIAW qy cVy, AwirAW nwl icrwey gey, gurdvwirAW dI syvw leI kurbwnIAW kIqIAW, Drm nhIN hwirAw, is`KI kysW suAwsW nwl inbwhI, iqnHW dI kmweI dw iDAwn Dr ky Kwlsw jI! bolo jI vwihgurU! pMjW qKqW, srb`q gurduAwirAW dw iDAwn Dr ky bolo jI vwihgurU!

ipRQmy srb`q Kwlsw jI kI Ardws hY jI, srb`q Kwlsw jI ko vwihgurU, vwihgurU, vwihgurU icq Awvy, ic`q Awvn kw sdkw srb suK hovy[ jhW jhW Kwlsw jI swihb, qhW qhW riCAw irAwieq, dyg qyg &qh, ibrd kI pYj, pMQ kI jIq, sRI swihb jI shwie, Kwlsy jI ky bol bwly, bolo jI vwihgurU!

is`KW nUM is`KI dwn, kys dwn, rihq dwn, ibbyk dwn, ivswh dwn, Brosw dwn, dwnW isr dwn, nwm dwn sRI AMimRqsr jI dy ieSnwn, cOkIAW, JMfy, buMgy, jugo jug At`l, Drm kw jYkwr, bolo jI vwihgurU!!!

is`KW dw mn nIvW, mq au~cI mq dw rwKw Awip vwihgurU[

hy Akwl purK Awpxy pMQ dy sdw shweI dwqwr jIE! sRI nnkwxw swihb qy hor gurduAwirAW gurDwmW dy, ijnHW qoN pMQ nUM ivCoiVAw igAw hY, KulHy drSn dIdwr qy syvw sMBwl dw dwn ^wlsw jI nUM bKSo[

hy inmwixAW dy mwx, inqwixAW dy qwx, inEitAW dI Et, s`cy ipqw, vwihgurU! Awp dy hzUr.....dI Ardws hY jI[

A`Kr vwDw Gwtw Bu`l cu`k mwP krnI[ srb`q dy kwrj rws krny[
syeI ipAwry myl, ijnHW imilAW qyrw nwm icq Awvy[ nwnk nwm cVHdI klw, qyry Bwxy srb`q dw Blw[

ies qoN auprMq Ardws ivc Swml hox vwlI swrI sMgq sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI A`gy Adb nwl m`Qw tyky Aqy iPr KVHy ho ky 'vwihGuruU jI kw ^wlsw, vwihgurU jI kI Pqih' bulwvy[ aupRMq 'siq sRI Akwl' dw jYkwrw gjwieAw jwvy[

A) Ardws hox smyN sMgq 'c hwzr swry iesqrI purSW nUM h`Q joV ky Kloxw cwhIdw hY[ jo s`jx sRI gurU gRMQ swihb dI qwibAw bYTw hovy, auh BI au~T ky cOr kry[

e) Ardws krn vwlw sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI dy snmu~K KVHo ky, h`Q joV ky Ardws kry[ jy sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI mOjUd nw hox qW iksy pwsy mUMh krky Ardws kro, pRvwn hY[

s) jdoN koeI Kws Ardws iksy iek jW vDIk AwdmIAW vloN hovy, qW auhnW qoN ibnW sMgq ivc bYTy hornW dw auTxw zrUurI nhIN[

From the above I take the following,
1. Person wakes up in the wee hours.
2. As you get up in bed and alight from your bed you massage your eyes, open them and say Waheguru. Waheguru Simran is not called for. If you say Waheguru more than once that should be Ok but it is not a Rhythmic, dancing, jhooming scenario but a quiet, reflective and peaceful set up. People say like "Waheguru terah shuker hai", "waheguru changa din charhaheen", "waheguru sarian da bhalaah karin", and so on.

3. You go brush/datan, take shower/bath.
4. You do as a global activity the following in Amrit velay (this is where you are once you woke up in the wee hours and had your shower but generally before you eat breakfast),
nwm bwxI dw AiBAws[
Read well how it is not Nam Abhias but Nam Bani and the appropriate Nitnem Banis are clearly stated as,
jpu, jwpu Aqy 10 sv`Xy ('sRwvg suD' vwly)- ieh bwxIAW AMimRq vyly pVHnIAW[


In my opinion ( I am just one), the Nam is used much in the context of remembering God and having Him in sight and within you all the time. Repeating Waheguru Waheguru for a period of time is not the way to achieve it. Doing it all the time that way will not achieve it either as you will not be able to do anything else and will grossly miss out on rest of Sikh Rehat Maryada.
I submit the above without any comments on second citation of SRM as the logic is the same.
One has a choice for any given time period and its usage as an example,

  • You can do Waheguru Waheguru or other word/words of your choice for that time.
  • You can do study of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and our Guru’s lives and experiences and other studies.
Our Gurus and their teaching tell us the following,

    • Closing eyes is not going to get you to find God within
    • Chanting mantirs, etc., is not going to get you to find God within
    • Doing contortions is not going to get you to find God within
    • Doing pujas is not going to get you to find God within
    • Etc., as the list of such and many Hindu, Muslim and other pakhands is very very long
    • You will find God within through self enlightenment and knowledge
One of the great researcher and well known Canadian put it very simply and powerfully,
“Medium is the Message”
So look at the medium differences in classic simran scenarios versus enlightenment through discovery and study while containing kam, karodh, lobh, moh and hanker as these will keep resetting you close to the starting line if gone to the extreme.
My object is not to prove you wrong nor to prove me right.
It is to as much to share our understandings.
All the best.
Sat Sri Akal.
PS: Some people like yourself and jagtkhalsa seem to imply that my mention of Amritsar or visiting Sri Harmandir Sahib somehow implied a pride as though it made me better than either of you or others. This is a mis-representation or if true I regret such statement(s) on my part. I only shared my experiences. I would love to see others to share their personal experiences as it adds a personality and reality to the expressed belief or understanding.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
ABHIYAAS...means PRACTISE...practise..then....IMPLEMENT....First READ..then on to the Second Part..GURMATT REHNNEE..menaing IMPLEMENTATION of what is READ...on a DAILY BASIS.

Olden Days SIKHS who in just a few years after Guru gobind Singh Ji managed to bring about KHALSA RAAJ after overthrowing the mightiest Empire in Asia..through NAAM BANNEE ABHIYAAS..and GURMATT REHNNEE !! They LIVED the LIFE of NAAM BANNEE...naam abhiyaas as meant to be done.

IF "Naam baanii abhiyaas' doesnt bring about any CHANGES in your DAILY LIFE...then its not being done the right way....60 years of daily "naam bannee abhiyaas"..and still doing things the normal ritualised ways..telling lies at every turn, doing ninda, under the control of lobh, hankaar, greed, lust, envy, jelaousy, pakhand...etc etc etc...it means the naam abhiyaas failed (done the wrong way ??)..SIX DECADES of READING the RECIPE..but never bought an oven, cake mixer, ingredients..never baked a CAKE !! The Anvil..the hammer..the fire...all cannot work..IF the SUNNIAR..is not going to actually LIGHT the FIRE...blow the air and get it burning hot, put the gold into the fire..heat it..put it on the Anvil and Hammer it into shape !!! Jatt..DHEERAJ..all NEED a lot of Hardwork and PRACTISE....:happysingh:
 

Ishna

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Ambarsaria ji

Apologies for referring to you as 'she'.

I'm also aware of the rules about quoting Gurbani that wherever possible the entire shabad should be given to place the sentance into context. I pasted the line from Rehat Maryada with reference to the word Waheguru. Without your level of understanding, to me the rest was not relevant. How can someone paste relevant information if they don't know it's relevant? I should just paste the entire Rehat Maryada? Now you have explained it, I can see how they are relevant.

Also, the passages you pasted from Rehat Maryada are in Punjabi and I can't read them. I have my own printed copy of English Maryada and you did provide the link to online - thanks.

I don't know if the Punjabi is more clear, but when I read "repeat the name Waheguru" I understand this to mean "say the name Waheguru over and over". Otherwise it would just read "say the name Waheguru"? I'm guessing something has been lost in translation.

For reference here is the English:

[SIZE=-1] CHAPTER III
A Sikh's Personal Life
Article III
A Sikh's personal life should comprehend:-
i. Meditation on Nam (Divine Substance, also translated as the God's attributed self) and the scriptures,
ii. Leading life according to the Guru's teachings and
iii. Altruistic voluntary service.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV
1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).
2. He/she should recite the following scriptural compositions every day :
a. The Japu, the Jaapu and the Ten Sawayyas (Quartets) - beginning "Sarwag sudh"-- in the morning.
b. Sodar Rehras comprising the following compositions:-
i) nine hymns of the Guru Granth Sahib, occuring in the holy book after the Japuji Sahib, (The Phrase in Italic has been interpolated by the translator to help locate the hymns more conveniently.) the first of which begins with "Sodar" and the last of which ends with "saran pare ki rakho sarma",
ii) The Benti Chaupai of the tenth Guru (beginning "hamri karo hath dai rachha" and ending with "dusht dokh te leho bachai",
iii) the Sawayya beginning with the words "pae gahe jab te tumre",
iv) the Dohira beginning with the words "sagal duar kau chhad kai".
v) the first five and the last pauris (stanzas) of Anand Sahib (The object of reciting the Anand as part of Sodar Rehras or at the conclusion of the congregational gathering is just to express joy and gratitude for the communion with the Guru ) and.
vi) the Mundawani and the slok Mahla 5 beginning "tera kita jato nahi"- in the evening after sunset.
(c) The Sohila - to be recited at night before going to bed. The morning and evening recitations should be concluded with the Ardas (formal supplication litany).

3 (a)The text (This is a model of the Ardas. It may be adapted to different occasions and for different purposes. However, the initial composition with "Pritham Bhagauti......" and the concluding phrases commencing "Nanak Nam" must not be altered.) of the Ardas : (LIT. Supplication or prayer. in reality, It is a litany comprehending very briefly the whole gamut of Sikh History and enumerating all that Sikhism holds sacred. Portions of it are invocations and prayer for the grant of strength and virtue. It concludes with : O Nanak, may the Nam (Holy) be ever in ascendance : in Thy will, may the good of all prevail !

One absolute Manifest; victory belongeth to the Wondrous Destroyer of darkness. May the might of the All-powerful help!

Ode to his might by the tenth lord.

Having first thought of the Almighty's prowess, let us think of Guru Nanak. Then of Guru Angad, Amardas and Ramdas - may they be our rescuers! Remember, then, Arjan, Hargobind and Har Rai. Meditate then on revered Har Krishan on seeing whom all suffering vanishes. Think then of Teg Bahadar, remembrance of whom brings all nine treasures. He comes to rescue every where. Then of the tenth Lord, revered Guru Gobind Singh, who comes to rescue every where. The embodiment of the light of all ten sovereign lordships, the Guru Granth - think of the view and reading of it and say, "Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of Darkness)".

Meditating on the achievement of the dear and truthful ones, including the five beloved ones, the four sons of the tenth Guru, forty liberated ones, steadfast ones, constant repeaters of the Divine Name, those given to assiduous devotion, those who repeated the Nam, shared their fare with others, ran free kitchen, wielded the sword and everlooked faults and shortcomings, say "Waheguru", O Khalsa.

Meditating on the achievement of the male and female members of the Khalsa who laid down their lives in the cause of Dharma (religion and righteousness), got their bodies dismembered bit by bit, got their skulls sawn off, got mounted on spiked wheels, got their bodies sawn, made sacrifices in the service of the shrines (Gurdwaras), did not betray their faith, sustained their adherence to the Sikh faith with unshorn hair uptill their last breath, say "Wondrous Destroyer of darkness", O Khalsa.

Thinking of the five thrones (of sikh religious authority) and all Gurdwaras, say "Wondrous Destroyer of darkness", O Khalsa.

Now it is the prayer of the whole Khalsa, May the conscience of the whole Khalsa be informed by Waheguru, Waheguru, Waheguru and, in consequence of such remembrance, may total well-being obtain. Wherever there are communities of the Khalsa, may there be Divine protection and grace, the ascendance of the supply of needs and of the holy sword, Protection of the tradition of grace, victory of the Panth, the succour of the holy sword, ascendance of the Khalsa. Say, O Khalsa, "Wondrous Destroyrer of darkness."

Unto the Sikhs the gift of the Sikh faith, the gift of the untrimmed hair, the gift of the discipline of their faith, the gift of sense of discrimination, the gift of trust, the gift of confidence, above all, the gift of meditation on the Divine and bath in Amritsar (holy tank of Harmander Sahib, Amritsar). May hymns-singing missionary parties, the flags, the hostels, abide from age to age. May righteousness reign supreme. Say, "Wondrous Destroyer of darkness."

May the Khalsa be imbued with humility and high wisdom! May Waheguru guard its understanding!
O Immortal Being, eternal helper of Thy panth, benevolent Lord, bestow on the Khalsa the beneficence of unobstructed visit to and free management of Nankana Sahib (Pakistan) and other shrines and places of the Guru from which the Panth has been separated.
O Thou, the honour of the humble, the strength of the weak, aid unto those who have none to rely on, True Father, Wondrous Destroyer of darkness, we humbly render to you .......... (Mention here the name of the scriptural composition that has been recited or, in appropriate terms, the object for which the congregation has been held.) Pardon any impermissible accretions, omissions, errors, mistakes. Fulfil the purposes of all.
Grant us the association of those dear ones, on meeting whom one is reminded of Your name. O Nanak, may the Nam (Holy) be ever in ascendance! in Thy will may the good of all prevail!

b) On the conclusion of the Ardas, the entire congregation participating in the Ardas should respectfully genuflect before the revered Guru Granth Sahib, then stand up and call out, "The Khalsa is of the Wondrous Destroyer of darkness : victory also is His." The Congregation should, thereafter, raise the loud spirited chant of Sat Sri Akal (True is the timeless Being).
c) While the Ardas is being performed, all men and women in congregation should stand with hands folded. The person in attendance of Guru Granth Sahib should keep waving the whisk standing.
d) The person who performs the Ardas should stand facing the Guru Granth Sahib with hands folded. If Guru Granth Sahib is not there, performing the Ardas facing any direction is acceptable.
e) When any special Ardas for and on behalf of one or more persons is offered, it is not necessary for persons in the congregation other than that person or those persons to stand up.
[/SIZE]



From the above I take the following,
1. Person wakes up in the wee hours.
2. As you get up in bed and alight from your bed you massage your eyes, open them and say Waheguru. Waheguru Simran is not called for. If you say Waheguru more than once that should be Ok but it is not a Rhythmic, dancing, jhooming scenario but a quiet, reflective and peaceful set up. People say like "Waheguru terah shuker hai", "waheguru changa din charhaheen", "waheguru sarian da bhalaah karin", and so on.
3. You go brush/datan, take shower/bath.
4. You do as a global activity the following in Amrit velay (this is where you are once you woke up in the wee hours and had your shower but generally before you eat breakfast),

My understanding from the English translation is that one bathes and THEN focuses on God and THEN repeats the name Waheguru. I'm not questioning your practice, I can see how it is logical and practical and that the deficit here would be in my understanding having very little exposure to the Sikh community, language, way of life, etc. Everything I know I've learned from English on the Internet with a tiny amount from camp which included copious amounts of "Waheguru Simran". You can see how I might not be on the same page as you. I'm hoping to learn from you, not criticise you. Sometimes I get the vibe that I might be seen as having an agenda, being unwilling to learn or just being a bit mentally slow. Understand I'm trying to do the best I can with what I have.

PS: Some people like yourself and jagtkhalsa seem to imply that my mention of Amritsar or visiting Sri Harmandir Sahib somehow implied a pride as though it made me better than either of you or others. This is a mis-representation or if true I regret such statement(s) on my part. I only shared my experiences. I would love to see others to share their personal experiences as it adds a personality and reality to the expressed belief or understanding.

I'm not sure how I've implied you have pride and that you are better than me. I see you as someone with a great deal more real-world life experience than I do in these matters and I'm pretty sure that someone who has grown up a Sikh in Amritsar knows more about what they're talking about than I do having grown up a white agnostic/Pagan in Australia. I'm sorry if this view is making you feel uncomfortable - it's not my intent.

Also, thank you and Gyani ji for the information about the relationship between Naam and nitnem banis. I'll go back to reading this thread now as I'm not sure I have anything constructive to add.

Ishna
 

Ambarsaria

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Ishna ji I am not sure about the she part but perhaps a wrong hug or other smiley used by me but that is not an issue just wanted to bring to your attention. I should have put a wink smiley as that is how the sentence should have read.

Your understanding of sikhism is impressive and nothing to frown upon.

There are possibilities of things getting lost in translation and I clearly re-collect from my experiences how in India the word "repeat" has been used to cover both meanings of the literal "repetition" as well as "repeat after me" to "imply say after me" or "say what I said" and in very liberal version that I am also familiar with which is simply "say" or "do" in a singular fashion.

I believe Gyani ji's post further elaborates on the concept of "Naam Bani da Abhias" which is the title in Punjabi where it is the Gurbani that is a critical part rather any kind of one or two worded Naam.

Have a wonderful 2011 full of health, happiness and prosperity.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

spnadmin

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Ishna ji

You mentioned that you attended a camp. Can you tell us if this was organized by a sangat or by a group such as AKJ? It might not be relevant. I ask because there are times when our earliest exposures to Sikhi establish a schematic for the experiences we have after that, like hooks to hang the information that follows. The schematic and the new material can come into conflict at some point. Thanks.
 

Ishna

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Ambarsaria ji, thank you for clarifying, and I also hope your 2011 brings you blessings.

Spnadmin ji, the camp I attended was not run by AKJ or a group with any particular affiliation. They appeared to source facilitators from a variety of localities (England, Malaysia, India, USA) with a broad range of interests and opinions. Repetition of the word "Waheguru" was encouraged before performing kirtan to establish atmosphere. It was encouraged while waiting in line for breakfast/lunch/dinner and while performing kitchen seva. 5am to 6am was Simran time in Darbar Sahib. It consisted of repetition of a song containing the terms "Tuhi Tuhi, Waheguru, Tera Naam". I enjoyed this very much.

My initial exposure to Sikhi was downloading SGGS and reading bits of it, the gurbani.com website, SRM and then *drum roll* ended up on a popular website with a list of "Sikh do's and don'ts". I think that's where I may have gone wrong :sobstory:.

At any rate, it's becoming clear to me that I need to read more SGGS and make greater effort to practice what it teaches directly.

Um... this isn't about Naam anymore so I'm shutting up now.

Ishna
 
Jan 5, 2011
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To ishna and spnadmin,

Having a bias against Kundalini/Raj Yoga does not diminish the fact that Sikh practices are all yogic practices. I point this out because it is part of the reason that meditation on the Naam is so little understood.

Let us use bowing before the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as an example. This is a practice straight from Kundalini/Raj Yoga. It symbolizes the fact that before anyone can learn from the Guru we must first humble ourselves and admit that what we think we know is not enough and that we need the Guru’s grace to enlighten us.

When we have bias against information we cannot deal with a deeper truth. The Gurus knew this and understood that the posturing of those that were closed minded because of their religious and cultural biases was often the greatest impediment to enlightenment.

Also spnadmin raised the question of whether there is proof that the Sikh Gurus meditated.
Really?

Why is there a Sikh Gurdwara at Hemkunt Sahib?


As children we all demonstrate obstinacy to the truth. As we mature we learn to listen to what we do not want to hear in order to learn what is beyond our limited views. In order to experience the essence of what is true within ourselves, the Naam, we must each learn to face our own personal obstinacy. Until then we choose to remain blind.

Admin Warning: The link to your blog is already littered more than once in you posts. Please refrain from posting the link again in your posts. You can add link to your blog in your profile at the following link: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/profile.php?do=editprofile. Please consider this as your final warning.
 

Ambarsaria

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jgtkhalsa ji please stop spamming with your website link as this is insulting to this site. Introduce your dialog under yoga, cults, etc., if there is a forum here and at other appropriate places. May your unwound coil of kundalini bring you great health, happines and prosperity.

I do believe there are very intelligent people engaged in direct and honest dialog and there is no need for a kundalini preacher.

ishnaji's last post is a resolution post on the subject as far as I am concerned.

Sorry to be blunt but not dis-respectful.animatedkhanda1peacesignkaur
Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Just a jolly but beautiful song for soothing,

YouTube - YouTube - Ambarsare de papad ve main khandi na - Dolly Guleria.flv
 

Admin

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Admin Warning:

jgtkhalsa ji, the link to your blog is already littered more than once in your posts. Please refrain from posting the link again and again in your posts. You can add link to your blog in your profile at the following link: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/profile.php?do=editprofile and whosoever may be interested can visit your blog by checking your profile.

And there is a section for discussing cults: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sects-groups-cults/

Thank you for complying with SPN TOS!

Gurfateh!
 

spnadmin

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To ishna and spnadmin,


Also spnadmin raised the question of whether there is proof that the Sikh Gurus meditated.
Really?

Why is there a Sikh Gurdwara at Hemkunt Sahib?[/B][/COLOR]

Hemkunt Sahib is the result of efforts of Sohan Singh to realize a vision incurred in a dream of Bhai Vir Singh. It is mentioned in the dubious text of Bachittar Natak, and thus bears no proof that Guru Gobind Singh did or did not meditate. As such it is part of the sanatan Nirmala tradition and has no relevance to this thread. One can however discuss the topic on other threads including http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/32675-hemkunt-sahib.html
 

Ambarsaria

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Aman Singh ji and spnadmin ji, I admire the quality and level of your moderating.

I am sure internally you feel like the "Ambarsare de papd ...." video. If you don't feel that way with none of the posters you are close to being a saint.

Sat Sri Akal.peacesign
 
Last edited:

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Ambarsariah ji...
There are many hidden "sants" around....especially those who DONT attach the title SANT to their names...
Thank you for the Video....brought back some fond memories of the warriahn and papards of Amritsar especially those sold by a shop just a stones throw away from the darbar sahib..which i buy back each year...and will do so again next year as i have exhausted my supply for 2011 a bit too fast..ha ha:singhsippingcoffee:swordfight
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The Gurdwara Hemkunt is based on a Fantasy....a "Guru" meditating in a different "life time" BUT on THIS Planet ??? NONE of the 10 Gurus did any such thing DURING their LIVES on this planet.

Various interpretations of Bhai vor singhs dream..led to as many 3 Identical HUMKUNTS being identified...all in different places in the Region...which is really which ??
The present one is totally Commercially run..Yatras and Travel Agents promote it all the year round....
 

BhagatSingh

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Did any of our Gurus meditate?

There is no way to pin the answer down with certainty. However, both Guru Angad and Guru Amardas turned from Vedic practices to follow in the footsteps of Guru Nanak Dev ji. Perhaps they did indeed meditate at some point in a Vedic tradition of meditation. Indeed the Gurus have described how to meditate. It is not the Vedic way.
Spnadmin ji, what is the "vedic" way of meditating? Please elaborate.
 

findingmyway

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World citizen!
Naam = everything

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ aasaa mehalaa 4 ||

ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥ maerai man than praem naam aadhhaar ||

ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪੀ ਨਾਮੋ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ naam japee naamo sukh saar ||1||

ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਜਨ ਸੈਨਾ ॥ naam japahu maerae saajan sainaa ||

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਮੈ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਵਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਲੈਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
naam binaa mai avar n koee vaddai bhaag guramukh har lainaa ||1|| rehaao ||

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥ naam binaa nehee jeeviaa jaae ||

ਵਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥ vaddai bhaag guramukh har paae ||2||

ਨਾਮਹੀਨ ਕਾਲਖ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ naameheen kaalakh mukh maaeiaa ||

ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ naam binaa dhhrig dhhrig jeevaaeiaa ||3||

ਵਡਾ ਵਡਾ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਗ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ vaddaa vaddaa har bhaag kar paaeiaa ||

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੪॥੫੬॥ naanak guramukh naam dhivaaeiaa ||4||4||56||

Dear friends, Waheguru's love and NAAM is everything for me, it is in my entire being and I follow it, remember it always. NAAM is my peace. My friends, you should also follow the NAAM. There is nothing but NAAM for me. NAAM supports the lucky ones with the help of the Guru. Without NAAM I cannot live (spiritually). Without NAAM life is cursed and the face becomes blackened by Maya. With NAAM comes great fortune, the lucky Gurmukh is blessed with NAAM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0yWcmminkg
 
Jan 5, 2011
9
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spnadmin & Gyani Jarnail Singh,


The mind can always find and make argument. It is the tendency of ego to make argument when confronted rather than admit we are in error. It is also the tendency of ego to assume that we are more important than others that we consider our inferiors. In which case we do not even think we need to give credible argument because it doesn’t matter if those we consider are our inferiors realize that our arguments make no sense. What does it matter what we say to those that are beneath us, dealing with them is beneath us anyway. In the words of Marie Antoinette “Let them eat cake.”


This is the feeling I get from the responses trying to deny that the Sikh Gurus meditated.


I am no expert of Gurbani or even Sikh history. Yet even to one so unlearned as myself proof and references to the Gurus meditating abound and are certainly not limited to Hemkunt Sahib. There’s the story of Guru Angad meditating and devotees cutting a hole in through the side of the house to have access to him, Guru Arjun meditating on the hot plate, Guru Tegh Bahadur meditating for years in the underground chamber behind his house, and not only Guru Gobind Singh isolating himself in meditation for days before the Baisakhi when he instituted the Khalsa, but also losing himself in bliss for days with the repeating of “Thou, Thou, Thou….”
There are many more examples of the Gurus meditating, but why bother to elaborate with those that have prejudged that I am part of some freak faction that has no real connection to that which is Sikh. To argue with such arrogance might give an impression that I find these arguments have the necessary sincerity for mutual growth. They do not.


As to my posting the link to my blog with each of my comments, it is because I am copying and pasting this discussion onto a parallel discussion on my blog with links back to this discussion added to every copied comment. It as my way of injecting a sense of equality in this interaction. I will continue to do so. It is not spamming to include a link to an ongoing parallel discussion in each of my posts. If this is offensive to Sikh Philosophy Network I encourage you to delete my membership so we can end this unpleasantness, it has become clear that my views are unwelcome anyway. I only continue out of a sense of duty to a person that was the reason that I posted in the first place. For the sake of that person and their noble and sincere quest to understand that which is beyond good and bad I will continue until I am banned from doing so.


Such is my understanding of the Khalsa way. If I am banned because of it I thank you for the disassociation.


Admin Note: Link to Your Blog is Again Removed. I am surprised that despite repeated requests to a person of your age and maturity, you are ignoring our requests not to litter SPN with blogs link. Is this the kind of decipline you teach to your students? Gurfateh, Aman Singh
 

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