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Islam Medical Treatment And Islam

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Naben ji I think you are trying very hard to be bring out all that is good in what you believe in. Sometimes we become myopic in such pursuits and it is out of love and cherishment but to an outsider looks kind of hocus-pocus. Through our generalities or narrowness to proving we end up destroying the good we wanted to share in the first place.

What are the consequences? Many a times it becomes counter-productive. I do believe it will be very worthwhile for mutual education that you summarize specifics and not generalities from aspects Islam. It really would be very wonderful. Great religious and spiritual leaders almost had uncanny abilities and gave us profound wisdom and insights. Let us focus respectfully in sharing that pragmatically. For me I always want to learn such as a joy of how limitless God created humanity.

Let me help you out in specifics. I would like to know what does Islam in your understanding say specifically about the following aspects,

  • Conception and Birth control
    • If all non-muslims are Quafirs who allows such to be born if not Allah
  • Cancer
  • Heart attacks
  • Mental Illness
  • Antibiotics
  • Vaccinations
  • HIV/AIDs
  • Difference between animal and human suffering
I do not believe it will be worthwhile to hear that if you become muslim all these will go away, you will be protected, etc. We know at practical level that it ain't so.

Regards.
 

namjiwankaur

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Nov 14, 2010
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Peace, blessings and mercy of God to you, Naben ji

I have trouble proclaiming "subhanallah" watching bees torture another bee.

One thing I love about the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is how much he cared about animals and suffered at their suffering.

There are 2 ayat in Quran on the bee that I find beautiful.

“And the lord inspired the bee, saying: Take your habitations in the mountains and in the trees and in what they erect. Then, eat of all fruits and follow the ways of your Lord made easy (for you)’. There comes forth from their bellies a drink of varying colour wherein is healing for men. Verily in this is indeed a sign for people who think.” (Surah An-Nahl 16:68-69)

I believe God prefers acts of beauty in creation and I choose to glorify the Creator about the beauty found in creation.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “Allah is beautiful and He loves beauty.” [Sahīh Muslim (911)]

Peace
Nam Jiwan


Look at the legs of the bee

bees cut her leg
Result of drink,

and expel them from the cell because it violated the teachings of Islam, Sobhaaaaaaaaaaaaaan Allah
 

namjiwankaur

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Nov 14, 2010
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Sat Nam _/|\_

Ambarsaria ji,

This is a good topic. I'm looking forward to what Naben shares and looking into it myself. I know that there was a time when the Islamic world was ahead of many other peoples when it came to medicine. I found some articles, I'll post here.

I hope as we discuss it, we can compare Sikhi views and Islamic views.

IE- Islam supports birth control for the most part (I'll post on it in a moment). What does Sikhi say about birth control?

Blessings,
Nam Jiwan

I would like to know what does Islam in your understanding say specifically about the following aspects,

  • Conception and Birth control
    • If all non-muslims are Quafirs who allows such to be born if not Allah
  • Cancer
  • Heart attacks
  • Mental Illness
  • Antibiotics
  • Vaccinations
  • HIV/AIDs
  • Difference between animal and human suffering
 

namjiwankaur

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Nov 14, 2010
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Sat Nam _/|\_

Here's what Wikipedia said about Islam and birth control:

"The Qur'an does not make any explicit statements about the morality of contraception, but contains statements encouraging procreation. The prophet Muhammad also is reported to have said "marry and procreate".
Coitus interruptus, a primitive form of birth control, was a known practice at the time of Muhammad, and his companions engaged in it. Muhammad knew about this, but did not prohibit it. Umar and Ali, the second and fourth of the Rashidun caliphs, respectively, defended the practice.
Muslims scholars have extended the example of coitus interruptus, by analogy, to declaring permissible other forms of contraception, subject to three conditions:
As offspring are the right of both the husband and the wife, the birth control method should be used with both parties' consent.
The method should not cause permanent sterility.
The method should not otherwise harm the body."


BBC has a page on birth control in Islam and says 8 of the 9 schools allow it.

Here's the link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islamethics/contraception.shtml

Also from another website called Epigee:

Sex Within Marriage: Not surprisingly, like the Jewish and Catholic faiths, Islam views sexual relations between a wife and husband as an ideal expression of love. Sex between married spouses is both for the sexual pleasure of each partner as well as for procreation. All forms of sexual expression, from intercourse to caressing and kissing, are encouraged between partners. The only stipulation according to the Qur'an is that intercourse should not take place while a woman is menstruating. However, other forms of sexual pleasure are allowed, so long as a woman's genitals are avoided.

Birth Control
Almost all forms of birth control are thought to be permissible in Islam. Those that are not accepted include surgical sterilization (unless it is medically necessary), as it is viewed as a form of castration as well as alters the body without need, and the withdrawal method, because it interrupts a woman's pleasure and prevents a woman from conceiving if that is what she wants. However, the withdrawal method may be used if the woman agrees to it.

Birth control use may be allowed for various women. Instances when Islam permits the use of contraception include:

Allowing a woman to rest between pregnancies
Preventing the transmission of infectious disease, such as an STD
A women's health requires the use of birth control
A husband cannot financially support more children
Abortion
There is some disagreement among Islamic scholars as to whether or not the Qur'an allows abortions to take place and, if so, when. The cause for the confusion lies in the following verse: "You should not kill your children for fear of want" (17:31 and 6:151). Some have interpreted this verse to mean that all birth control and abortion should be banned. However, many Islamic leaders and scholars say that this interpretation is incorrect. The verse in fact refers to infanticide and killing a child that has been born due to poverty. With that in mind, most say that abortion is in fact legal under Islamic law, so long as it is done before ensoulment. Precisely when the soul enters the body, though, is often debated.

Some Islamic schools feel that ensoulment occurs when an embryo has implanted itself into the womb (although this still allows for the use of the "Morning After Pill" to prevent a pregnancy). Others say it occurs much later, anywhere from 40 days after fertilization to 120 days after fertilization. While the various schools may have differing opinions as to when ensoulment occurs, they all agree that abortion should not take place once the soul has entered the body. They also agree that abortion should not be performed for vain reasons, such as trying to keep your figure, but out of necessity, such as saving the life of the mother.

Source: Epigee: http://www.epigee.org/guide/islamic.html
 

naben

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Feb 18, 2012
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This is a good discussion​
-----
Ishna


Interest of this article​
There is no benefit from taboos medication​


At this point [/FONT]just [/FONT]any person cannot help but say: O Messenger of Allah! You are truthful when you said: "Do not use anything prohibited (Haram) as medicine", and when you said: "It is not a medicine but it is a disease".[/FONT]​

[/FONT]​

[/FONT]​
-----[/FONT]Ambarsaria
I understand very well
What do you want to say
But
Do you think that Allah[/FONT] created human on earth
To live in prosperity and happiness
You are mistaken

Everyone on earth
A test of a different kind

That which does not learn to understand,
And boggle your mind

Example
- A rich man but can not have children no matter how hard
- A poor man has children and can barely spending them
- A strong man and can use his power to do good but does not do it
- Weak man but help people to the best of his ability
- Infidel and polytheist man but he has all the blessings
- A Muslim man has diseases in health


Here everyone trials and test its own​
Disease = test
Health = test
Disbelief = test
Money = test
And so on
If all non-muslims are Quafirs who allows such to be born if not Allah​
Heart attacks​

will You succeed and reach to the right path
Or

Like you would say
do not believe it will be worthwhile to hear that if you become muslim all these will go away, you will be protected, etc. We know at practical level that it ain't so.

Therefore

In the Holy Qur'an
4. Verily, We have created man in toil.

5. Thinks he that none can overcome him?

6. He says (boastfully): "I have wasted wealth in abundance!"

7. Thinks he that none sees him?

8. Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?

9. And a tongue and a pair of lips?

10. And shown him the two ways (good and evil)?​

This is wrong thinking
Which you portray Satan
The mind that is far from the
the oneness of Allah[/FONT] and the prophets and messengers

And if you want to know part of the practical side of Islam to my words

See here


Antibiotics --- Vaccinations--- Conception and Birth control​
These things legal and permissible in Islam
No problem with the conditions not to damage the material and moral​
And follow-up with an experienced doctor​


Messenger of Allah [/FONT]Muhammad peace be upon him([/FONT] Allah sent down the disease, medicine and drug make every disease)

------Mental Illness​

. The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said:

"The pen has been lifted for three: the insane until he regains his sanity, the child until he reaches puberty, and the sleeper until he wakes up."

This hadith is narrated in the major books of hadith after Muslim and Bukhari known as As-sunan from Ali and Aisha (may Allah be pleased with them), .

Likewise the insane person, his very insanity contradicts the presence of any valid belief or worship, which are necessary conditions for the alliance with Allah. The sufferer of chronic spells of insanity who is insane sometimes and normal other times, who is a believer in Allah and His Prophet while in his right state of mind, fulfilling the obligations and avoiding the forbidden is rewarded for the belief and pious practice which he does while in his right mind, and his spells of insanity do not prevent the acceptance of that. His alliance and closeness to Allah will be in accordance to those acts done while in a state of sound mind. Also, one who becomes insane after having believed and practiced Islam: Allah will reward him for his belief and pious practice which preceded his insanity, and will not cancel these good deeds because of the insanity with which he was afflicted through no sin of his. The pen is lifted for him during the time of his insanity.



--AIDs ---Cancer​

God willing
I'll talk about them in a special article​


-------namji{censored}aur

This is very important

Do you think that the world of insects and animals
Live without obligations and punishment for his mistakes?

You are completely mistaken
And need more learning


Among the proven information that studies the
behavior of the animal world where the courts
of the Ravens and prosecute any individual
group comes out on its own according to the
laws of justice innate set by Allah[/FONT]
Almighty to
them, and each group when the Ravens offense
punishable own.


Food rape young chicks: punishment requiring
that a group of crows pluck feathers crow
until the aggressor incapable of flight
Kalofrak small prior to the completion of
development.


And the crime of rape or destroy the nest:
Ravens only court to compel the aggressor to
build a new nest to nest the victim.


The crime of assault on a female crow last:
it requires a group to kill the aggressor
Ravens Bmnakirha beaten to death.


The court sits normally in a field of
agricultural fields or in the land of wide,
gathered where the Court on time, and brings
Crow accused under heavy guard, and his trial
begins Phoenix head, lowers his wings, and
holding a recognition of guilt for crowing.


If sentenced to death, jumped a group of
crows on the expansion of the comet apart
Bmnakirha sharp until he dies, and then
carried by a crows beak to dig his grave
compatible with the size of his body, which
he puts the body of the dead crow and then
hurl it out of respect for the sanctity of
the dust of death


And thus assess the crows of divine justice
in the earth better than hosted many of the
sons of Adam




VIA Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah, but
reminds us that God's law and the provisions
of the Holy Qur'an, which Muslims applied​




 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
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Dec 21, 2010
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Naben ji thank you for taking the time to post back. I see commonalities with beliefs of Sikhism in many of your statements. The greatest commonality being the belief in "One Creator" which you name as Allah and Sikhs call it "Waheguru" and many people have different names as in "Rab", God and creator. Such is possessive of all descriptions and does not have hierarchies of sub-Gods and creators or company of Directors of such semi-Gods as in some other far eastern religions.

There is no question your religion has a way of teaching its beliefs/wisdom in the holy writings. It is a style that I am definitely not used to specially where persecution, threats, retribution and so called entry to heaven and rewards are concerned.

Sikhism teachings do not espouse a reward/retribution regimen while we both agree on one almighty creator. There is no concept of sins, unholy or holy in Sikhism. It simply is what we do or don't do. The judge of action of Sikhs is the almighty's creation itself. So the emphasis in Sikhism is to recognize the consonant living with almighty's creation and therein lies the creator's happiness and support for all. In Sikhism we do not believe in any hierarchies of God(s) or specialty of messengers, sons and daughters. All creation just is and no one is above or below. Our actions make one so. Sikhism also does not believe that we are burdened at birth or we leave at death to be rewarded in some heaven, etc. in a physical form of existence. We simply believe that we go back to where we came from. That is for human the earth that helped our creation, sustained us that we return to. Of course we follow traces of our forefathers and mothers and leave traces of our own.
I write above to share and not to dis-approve what you have written.

Regards.
 
Last edited:

namjiwankaur

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Nov 14, 2010
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Sat Nam _/|\_

Ambarsaria ji

I enjoyed your share just above. I have a question regarding the 5 Evils.

If someone acts out of lust, rage, (emotional) attachment, ego and greed, how do Sikhs view the action? IE- What caused it? What danger is there in it? What is the remedy for it?

Anyone who can enlighten me on this, please do share. icecreamkudi

Nam Jiwan
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
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namji{censored}aur ji thanks for your post.
If someone acts out of lust, rage, (emotional) attachment, ego and greed, how do Sikhs view the action? IE- What caused it? What danger is there in it? What is the remedy for it?
Namji{censored}aur ji so called five thieves are recognized by most as being behind ill or unwholesome pursuits and actions. From what I understand in SGGS it matters not what is the cause of your variation causing you to not live in consonance with all around you. The impact on you, me and anyone else is how God's/creator's creation reacts as a result. That includes our families, friends, other people, animals, plant, earth, etc. This indirectly may cause one to classify, prioritize, as to the biggest thief to worry about. If the circumstances change the presence of thieves, etc., and their impact changes too. So it is a kind of dynamic space which defines life to start with.

Hence there is no clear cut answer and it is to each their own. I believe the emphasis on eliminating the so called thieves is pious but really a setting for failure and ineffective participation in the world. Some people in over-zealousness would say, for example to eliminate Kaam. In SGGS there are clear teachings that in a worldly life such exclusive focusing by Yogis, renunciates, etc., is just plain pathetic and mis-leading. If you search there are considerable shabads posted along these lines and I believe I even started a thread on whether it is the control or elimination of five thieves that Sikhism teaches through SGGS.

In creation as a whole, our rules and understanding of these do not apply to all creation nor our imposition of what is truly good or truly bad. So moderation with the circumstances and specially in terms of interaction with the rest around us perhaps is a good guide to stay focused on and just be.

Regards.
 

palaingtha

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Aug 28, 2012
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Is it permissible to medication, including the campus of allah?

The greatness of the sacrifice of Prophet Mohammad that he did not leave anything except tell us about it, that it is halaal, encouraged us to do if it is haram forbade him, and now live with some of the discoveries about the medical treatment taboos ..
It forbade the Prophet peace be upon him for medical treatment taboos such as alcohol, he said: (Allah sent down the disease, medicine and drug make every disease and treat sickness Vtdaowa and donot tdaowa by mahram) [Narrated by Abu Dawood].

Was asked the Holy Prophet peace be upon him medication for alcohol, he said: (It is not a remedy but it is a disease) [Narrated by Muslim]. And we know for sure today many injured him for the kinds of wines and alcohol, and enough to know that in Britain alone die every year due to addiction to alcohol more than (200) thousand people!

Extends the effects of alcohol bad for all the organs of the body and concentrated most of the effects in the nervous system. When the wine is absorbed in the stomach and moves through the blood to the brain, it disrupts the functioning of the organs and the brain loses the ability to balance and affect the respiratory centers of the brain and may lead to death.
The delicate and complex organs in the body are most affected by alcohol, sentence nerve, liver and endocrine glands, which causes serious disturbances have wine. Starts since the influence of alcohol drinking on the mouth, lips and tongue may appear runny or salivary dryness of the tongue, and may lead to cancer of the tongue. Alcohol also causes the expansion of the esophagus, blood vessels, leading to serious lesions. Recent studies also showed that most people with cancer of the esophagus are alcoholics.

The impact of alcohol on the stomach will cause the congestion of the mucous membrane and an increase in secretions of hydrochloric acid, resulting in the injury of chronic stomach ulcers, it may develop and lead to cancer of the stomach.
For the intestines and also when taking intoxicants get serious infections, and get shortness of absorption, as well as movement disorder .
We find the most serious impact of the share of the liver, where alcohol abuse leads to poisoning of the liver, and Greasiness and inflation. It is not surprising to know that in France, for example die every year more than twenty thousand people from cirrhosis of the liver resulting from the abuse of alcohol.
The heart also is not in isolation from the influence of alcohol, abused alcohol, we find one who disturbed his heart is not stable, and an increase in blood pressure affect the heart, leading to hardening of the arteries and to the fatal stroke.

The body is addicted to alcohol have lower immunity and resistance against diseases, making it easier for viruses to storm and destroy the body without any resistance. From here we have a clearer prophetic wisdom in the prohibition of alcohol, honest and evident sincerity of our words of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him: (Every intoxicant is wine and all wine is haram) [Narrated by Muslim].

It also proved the influence of alcohol on the fetus, a woman, which deals with alcohol, this wine enters the blood and absorbed by the fetus and may be affected seriously disfigured morally and mentally. And medical research has shown that drinking alcohol affects boys They find mostly vintage addicts. So the influence of alcohol extends to the descendants of the addict and his descendants, and here we find the Prophet's prohibition of alcohol no matter how small the damage to pay for rights.
Rahim says the Prophet peace be upon him: (What intoxicates in large quantities) [Narrated by Tirmidhi].

So what is forbidden by Allah and the Messenger is an injury to man, and commanded by God and His Messenger, the good and benefit a lot. Almighty says: (. And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty) [Hashr: 7].


Sikhism says to the humanity "Refrain use of intoxicants", and majority of the mankind ignore the godly advise.
 

naben

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Feb 18, 2012
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Naben ji thank you for taking the time to post back.

Ambarsaria
I am always in the service of all the honorable members
To inquire about anything about Islam

allah says in the Holy Qur'an ((125) Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guidedghtly] guided


palaingtha
m says to the humanity "Refrain use of intoxicants", and majority of the mankind ignore the godly advise.

Yes, my dear brother

This is the problem

Allah says in the Holy Qur'an


281. And be afraid of the Day when you shall be brought back to Allah. Then every person shall be paid what he earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.
Surah Al-Baqarah

115. "Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?"116. So Exalted be Allah, the True King, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Lord of the Supreme Throne!
117. And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allah, any other ilah (god), of whom he has no proof, then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely! Al-Kafirun (the disbelievers in Allah and in the Oneness of Allah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters, etc.) will not be successful.

Surah Al-Mu'minun



Cases of adultery, rape, incest and AIDS are found more among alcoholics According to National Crime Victimization Survey Bureau of

Justice (US Department of Justice) in the year 1996 alone everyday on an average 2,713 rapes took place. The statistics tell us that the majority

of the rapists, were intoxicated while committing the crime. The same is true in cases of molestation. According to statistics, 8% of Americans

commit incest i.e. one in every twelve to thirteen persons in America is involved in incest. Almost all the cases of incest are due to intoxication[/FONT]

allah guide you
 

naben

SPNer
Feb 18, 2012
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1. Prohibition of alcohol in the Qur'an The Glorious Qur'an prohibits the consumption of alcohol in the following verse:
"
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an Abomination - of Satan's handiwork;

eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper. "[Al-Qur'an 5:90]


2. Prohibition of alcohol in the Bible The Bible prohibits the consumption of alcohol in the following verses:

a. "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." [Proverbs 20:1] b. "And be not drunk with

wine. "[Ephesians 5:18][/FONT]
 

naben

SPNer
Feb 18, 2012
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----In contrast, when intoxicants are used in the many ways which provide benefits to the mankind without leading to sin, they would not be prohibited (like use of intoxicants in medicine, surgery, cleaning, etc). This is obvious from the fact that God says that there are benefits too from intoxicants. God would not say there are benefits for people if these benefits were prohibited.

The sinful ways of using intoxicants are further given light in the Quran in 5:90 which tells us that intoxicants and gambling are works of the devil. Also in 5:91 where we are told that the devil entices people to use intoxicants and gambling to spread animosity and hatred between people and to distract the human from commemorating God.

Thus it is these sinful uses of intoxicants alone (which contain "ithm"), which are prohibited. Obviously if intoxicants are used in surgery it is not spreading animosity or hatred among people, it would infact be helping people, and thus would not be prohibited.

Those who claim that drinking was prohibited in stages, or that it was permitted until the revelation of the Quran, show their ignorance with God's unchangeable law (33:62).

It is well known that alcohol drinking was prohibited in the previous scripture as well, and not only with the advent of the Quran. In the Bible we read:
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; and whoever is led astray by it is not wise" (Proverbs 20:1).
"Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder" (Proverbs 23:30,31)
 

namjiwankaur

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Sat Nam _/|\_

Thanks for including the verses from the Old Testament.

I'm reading in the New Testament where Jesus has the apostles drink from the cup and eat bread --- representing his body and blood (which also represents a new covenant). Some translations use "wine", but most call it "fruit of the vine". Perhaps that means grape juice vs. wine?

Salaam
Nam Jiwan :)


It is well known that alcohol drinking was prohibited in the previous scripture as well, and not only with the advent of the Quran. In the Bible we read:
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; and whoever is led astray by it is not wise" (Proverbs 20:1).
"Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder" (Proverbs 23:30,31)
 

naben

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Feb 18, 2012
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--Paul
Is the founder of Christianity
Have nothing to do with the true gospel

---The truth
Islam, Christianity and Judaism
Source of the one divine
[/FONT][/FONT]
allah[/FONT]

But
Been corrupted Torah and the Gospels
So
Find different opinions
[/FONT][/FONT]allah[/FONT] says in the Holy Qur'an
(71) O People of the Scripture, why do you confuse the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know [it]?

(157) Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.[/FONT]

- Gospel of Matthew is not true
The Gospel has been distorted

Matthew - Mark - Luke - John
Recognized by the scientists themselves Christians


‫أحمد ديدات - متىّ لم يكتب متىّ‬‎ - YouTube
‫أحمد ديدات ÙŠÙضح الثالوث عل الملأ - YouTube.flv‬‎ - YouTube

Why Jesus returns to earth? - YouTube

‫عشر دقائق تدمر قدسية الكتاب المقدس‬‎ - YouTube[/FONT]
 

namjiwankaur

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Nov 14, 2010
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Peace...

Naben, I think its important for Muslims to be deeply reverent of the Scriptures from other religions. The Quran commands it.

Say, We believe in God and in what has been sent down to us and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes. We believe in what has been given to Moses, Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. It is to Him that we have surrendered ourselves. Quran 3:84

If I were a Christian and you were speaking to me about the Bible, calling it corrupted, I would be offended. The Bible was, in my opinion, manipulated to conform to the early church's dogma. A "committee" chose and rejected from many possible books. Part of it was to subdue and dismantle the Gnostic groups. Many of the Books included in the injeel (New Testament) were written by early Christian saints years after Jesus, peace be upon him, died.

Regardless, I think you should speak to Christians, etc., the same way you would want them to speak of Muhammad, peace be upon him, and Quran. Imagine how upset Muslims would be if someone called Quran corrupted. I would tone it down a lot with a different word choice such as "edited".

That is my opinion, but I think it could create a lot more interfaith harmony if both sides felt the prophet and Holy Book of their religion was respected.

Personally, I suspect many of the Gnostic gospels and the various scrolls discovered in the past century offer a more authentic look at the teachings of Jesus. How do you feel on this matter?

Nam Jiwan :)
 

namjiwankaur

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Nov 14, 2010
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Peace peacesignkaur

Naben ji

A post script to the above comment. When I read and reflect on the verse quoted from Quran (3:84), I notice that it is to Him we submit.

Part of submitting to God's will, in my heart, and from my Sufi studies and contemplation is to remember that even Muhammad submitted to Allah's will. I find it very disconcerting that you believe Christians and Jews are destined for hell when God Himself clearly states in many places that Christians, Jews, Sabeans and all who believe in God .... will be rewarded.

I know you think my opinion is flawed because I am a Sufi. I choose not to divide the ummah. Quran commands me to this: Surely all believers are brothers. So make peace between your brothers, and fear God, so that mercy may be shown to you. (Quran 49:10)

There are not "sects" and "divisions" in Islam. One is either surrendered and submitted to God's will (islam) or not. There is only one way of islam (surrendering to Divine Will). And it is for God to judge the hearts of all people. Naben, it is not your decision or my decision. It is ALLAH'S decision...Allah will decide who worships correctly and who doesn't.

Your knowledge of Quran and hadith combined with my knowledge of Quran and hadith aren't worth even a speck compared to Allah's knowledge. So when you teach...you must not teach. You must not decide what is only for God to decide about Muslims, Sufis, Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Jews and pagans.

If a people agree to live peacefully with you, you must live peacefully with them. The dhimmi (which means protected ones) must never be pressured to convert. If you push too hard, you will turn them off. And...you will interfere with the Divine Will.

Dawah simply means being a good Muslim. It doesn't mean going around like a salesman.

God made all the nations and tribes so we can know one another....to create a world of people united in diversity is God's plan.

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Quran 49:13)

Say, We believe in God and what was revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the [other] prophets by their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. It is to Him that we surrender ourselves. (Quran 2:136)

The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and [so do] believers (the converts). They all believe in God and His angels, His scriptures, and His messengers. They say, We do not differentiate between any of His messengers. We hear and obey. Grant us Your forgiveness, Lord, to You we shall all return! (Quran 2:285)

Say, We believe in God and in what has been sent down to us and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes. We believe in what has been given to Moses, Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. It is to Him that we have surrendered ourselves. (Quran 3:84)

To those who believe in God and His messengers, and make no distinction between any of them, to those We shall surely give them their rewards. God is most forgiving and merciful. (Quran 4:152)

God has ordained for you the same religion which He enjoined on Noah, and which We have revealed to you, and which We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus, so that you should remain steadfast in religion and not become divided in it. What you call upon the polytheists to do is hard for them; God chooses for Himself whoever He pleases and guides towards Himself those who turn to Him. (Quran 42:13)

The believers (followers of the revelations given to Muhammad), the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabaeans all those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds will be rewarded by their Lord; they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

But to those of them, who are firmly grounded in knowledge, and the believers (converts), who truly believe in what is revealed to you, and what was revealed before you. To those who pray regularly and pay the zakat [prescribed alms] and believe in God and the Last Day, We will surely give a great reward.(Quran 4:162)

Believers (converts to the Path of Submission), Jews, Sabaeans and Christians whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right shall have nothing to fear nor shall they grieve. (Quran 5:69)

Nam Jiwan peacesignkaur
 

namjiwankaur

SPNer
Nov 14, 2010
557
433
USA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P85XiRuR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyHM3llAiUA

You recently quoted a hadith and didn't define what Muhammad meant by jihad. Muhammad considered the greatest jihad to overcome the evil within oneself. The inner struggle against our own egos ... not the egos of others, not holy wars.

The lesser jihad is battle; the greater jihad is to conquer the enemy within oneself.

Allahu Akbar!

Nam Jiwan
 

palaingtha

SPNer
Aug 28, 2012
270
295
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Naben ji thank you for taking the time to post back.

Ambarsaria
I am always in the service of all the honorable members
To inquire about anything about Islam

allah says in the Holy Qur'an ((125) Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guidedghtly] guided


palaingtha
m says to the humanity "Refrain use of intoxicants", and majority of the mankind ignore the godly advise.

Yes, my dear brother

This is the problem

Allah says in the Holy Qur'an


281. And be afraid of the Day when you shall be brought back to Allah. Then every person shall be paid what he earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.
Surah Al-Baqarah

115. "Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?"116. So Exalted be Allah, the True King, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Lord of the Supreme Throne!
117. And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allah, any other ilah (god), of whom he has no proof, then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely! Al-Kafirun (the disbelievers in Allah and in the Oneness of Allah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters, etc.) will not be successful.

Surah Al-Mu'minun



Cases of adultery, rape, incest and AIDS are found more among alcoholics According to National Crime Victimization Survey Bureau of

Justice (US Department of Justice) in the year 1996 alone everyday on an average 2,713 rapes took place. The statistics tell us that the majority

of the rapists, were intoxicated while committing the crime. The same is true in cases of molestation. According to statistics, 8% of Americans

commit incest i.e. one in every twelve to thirteen persons in America is involved in incest. Almost all the cases of incest are due to intoxication[/FONT]

allah guide you

My reply:-

Sikhism is in agreement with all religions that believe in oneness of God. Sikhism believes in the carry forward of one's deeds in this life to ones next rebirth or reincarnation where he continues to do good or bad deeds that one has been doing in his previous life. In very rare cases a man deep in bad deeds is saved when he meets a Guru or teachings of Guru Granth Sahib and abides by such teachings.
In Sri Guru Granth Sahib there are teachings/Shlokas of Sikh Gurus, and also of Muslim Peers, Hindu Saints etc. that complies with Sikh Philosophy. Sikhs believe in brotherhood of humanity and every one is equal before God. We are all mortals that are born and no one can claim as a special. Only our actions make what we are.
Diseases occur to us because of the mistakes, knowingly and unknowingly, we make. But one thing is certain, we are mortals and one has to die. Diseases can bring the D-Day earlier and our life span will also meet with old age diseases even when we live a sober life.
One may agree with the statistics you have provided. Intoxicants destory ones character as also good health.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
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Sikhism believes in the carry forward of one's deeds in this life to ones next rebirth or reincarnation where he continues to do good or bad deeds that one has been doing in his previous life.

Not all Sikhs believe this, some believe death is the end
 

namjiwankaur

SPNer
Nov 14, 2010
557
433
USA
Sat Nam _/|\_

Not all Sikhs believe this, some believe death is the end

This brings up a question for me. In Sikhism, is there a formal creed/dogma for things like this or is there an element of free will in choosing how Sikhs believe in things like reincarnation/afterlife?

Nam Jiwan :mundabhangra:
 
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