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Living The Shabad Guru : My Thoughts And Feelings

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Mai Harinder Kaur, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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  2. harbansj24

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    Most Sikh mothers (and many Hindu also) of our generation sang this Shabad, on the Birthday, on wedding on any other joyous occasion or when the son left home for studies or work.
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    The journey continues.....

    August 6th,2009

    Today's 5.3 mile journey:Eh neitroh mereio,HAR tum mein jot dhari, HAR bin avar nan dekho koi."

    Hey person, Ik Ong Kaar gave you the sight so you could see goodness in ALL, no exception.This sight for you to control your lust and gluttony. For you, not to make your eyes bigger than your tummy."

    August 7th,2009
    Today's journey of 5.3 miles: HAR bin avar nah dekho koyee, Nadri HAR nihaleiah."

    Hey person, when you see goodness in ALL, then you will discover IK ONG KAAR in ALL."

    August 8th,2009

    Today's 7 mile journey: Eehoh vis sansaar tun dekhdei,Eehoh HAR kah roop hai, HAR roop nadiri ayaeiah.

    Hey person, what you see around you and is awestruck with is the WOW! factor of IK ONG KAAr's omnipresence, who is both in organic and in inorganic.


    August 09,2009

    Today's 7 mile journey:Gur parsadi bujheiyah, janh vekhan, HAR IK hai, HAR bin avar nah koyee ll
    Kaheih Nanak ehi netar andh sei, SATGURU milieiyah, dibh drisht hoyee.ll36ll

    Hey person, IK ONG KAAR gave you this sight. So, if you can not see IK ONG KAAR in ALL, then you can not see IK ONG KAAR at all because His omnipresence makes Him present in all there is.

    Therefore, in your actions you make sure that you see no stranger,you feel no enmity.

    Says Nanak, that before finding connection with SATGURU, I was in the dark due to my ignorance, like a blind person. Thanks to THE SOURCE, I have seen the light.ll36ll



    Tejwant Singh
     
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  4. OP
    Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Narayanjot ji,

    Deleted ]Thousands of hearts, lakhs of hearts, crores of hearts. The heart of a parent (father, as well as mother) sending off a child (son or daughter) into danger. Of course, life itself is dangerous; we need to trust in Akaal Purakh and the good sense we have taught our children.

    Yes, think of it. You have brought back a memory long buried in my mind. After he had been blessed with Amrit, shortly before his death in battle (Delhi Pogrom, 1984), I sang - or rather tried to sing this to him. I remember him grinning at me, "Aw, Ma!" A big hug. And a smile of pure joy.

    Chardi kala! :ice:

    Mai
     
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    #24 Mai Harinder Kaur, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2009
  5. Tejwant Singh

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    Sadh Sangat,

    Guru Fateh.

    It is very common that the beautiful Shabad and its message can be ruined with the incorrect literal translation which is very common in Gurbani. It is a common belief that " Poothaa" in the above Shabad and mentioned in the verse below means Son which is not only incorrect but quite insulting to our Gurus, hence, to SGGS. People even who know Gurmukhi make the same mistake, which is sad. That is the reason Harbans Singh ji mentioned that it is sung when the son goes away or on birthdays. It is a shame because SGGS is not sexist, to the contrary.

    In the following verse POOTHAA means a child, who could be of either gender, not just son.

    ਪੂਤਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਕੀ ਆਸੀਸ ॥
    poothaa maathaa kee aasees ||
    O son, this is your mother's hope and prayer
     
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  6. spnadmin

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    NamJap ji

    So far I have not been able to view the Shanti Kaur video because of commotion on the YouTube side. Maybe sometime today....hope so. Thanks

    Later -- well it finally loaded. And Yes Shanti Kaur puts it perfectly -- and it is very appropriate. Nice of you to put this video into contact with me.
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Tejwant Ji, Gurfateh.

    You are spot on. People make up their own meanings.
    Pootah..is CHILD. Even in everyday colloquial Punjabi a dad may even call his Daughter..PUTTAR..lassii dey...or tell his Noohn (daughter in Law) Puttar manji dah deh.
    2. In naother shabd the word Putterean..also is for BOTH - male/female CHILDREN. Puttreean Gandh paveh Sansaar...meaning Children tie you down to this world..its NOT just SONS...its CHILDREN/Family...
     
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  8. Tejwant Singh

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    Gyani ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Allow me to share this with you all that I have always addressed Jaskeerat Kaur, PUTTAR, eversince she was a child, whenever I call her or have a conversation with her. Same goes for Trimaan without saying.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  9. OP
    Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Giani Jarnail Singh Ji and Tejwant Singh Ji,

    I hope no one would think me amiss and off-topic if I say both your comments are poignantly sweet.

    Thanks, guys!

    Chardi kala! :ice:

    Mai
     
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  10. simpy

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    Guru is the most powerful and endless ocean of knowledge..........
    so sweet...............it sweetens the mind and body so deeply, then nothing else seems that sweet anymore
    so bold.................nothing else can overtake it, actually Guru Shabad takes over everything -- your ears hear Gurbani Guru Guru Shabad through everything and everyone

    Guru is Majestic....

    Dear Tejwant Singh ji---
    Your words--"It is very common that the beautiful Shabad and its message can be ruined with..........quite insulting to our Gurus........" surprised me... Who can ruin the most powerful, what are you saying??????????? who can insult The Guru????? who has that power???????

    Nothing can ruin it---------it is infinite--------no one can insult Guru--they can try to do it, but is it possible???? NO WAY. There is a genuine reason for me being surprised at your comments as you have made many many claims in the same thread for being with Shabad Guru--- so long on such and such days!!!!! still you are insecure!!!!! and are believed to think that someone else has the power to ruin it or insult it!!!!!!!

    All one has to believe is "Guru" call it Shabad or Guru or Waheguru-- no difference..
    Guru Jevad avar na koi, Dear Tejwant Ji.
    We all(the whole humanity) are supposed to surrender our minds, ears, bodies to the Shabad Guru, How can one set their mind to surrender all to Guru if he/she thinks there are others who can ruin his/her Guru....................there are others who can insult his/her Guru..................

    btw like your words from another post of yours-- "Hey person, IK ONG KAAR gave you this sight. So, if you can not see IK ONG KAAR in ALL, then you can not see IK ONG KAAR at all because His omnipresence makes Him present in all there is.
    ..
    Therefore, in your actions you make sure that you see no stranger, you feel no enmity.
    "
    He is All and All is Him. His Majesty .... jo jo deesay tera roop ...:up:
     
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  11. harbansj24

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    Tejwant ji,

    My thoughts were also the same but our dear moms were partial to sons simply because in those days (both in east and in west) only male members were involved in all the action!
     
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  12. simpy

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    Re: Living The ShabadGuru: My Thoughts And Feelings



    For any seeker, be a pujari/non pujari/sikh/non-sikh Guru is the most powerful, the unlimited source of knowledge and wisdom.
    He/she doesn't wait for someone other to assist him/her to connect to the Guru. Or Guru needs any vichole to connect to His followers, does He?????????????????
    Others can sit there and claim whatever they want to, does it bother the seeker??? or let me put it this way.. SHOULD IT BOTHER THE SEEKER, unless he/she is a pakhandi!!!!!!!!

    jado prem de sar andar thantha marde..........sab pujari/granthi/sgpc rules/amrit shak singh who claims them to be the only pure people on the face of this earth/pakhandi saadh/pakhandi parcharak///i can go on and on with the list/ dhare de dhare reh jande-----------seeker is joined with the majestic Almighty for ever and ever :) pakhandies can beat their worldly drums for ever, most :welcome: to them for their hardwork.. but nothing ever stopped a true seeker in any era .........................nothing, as all is He Himself...................
     
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  13. Tejwant Singh

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    Simpy ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for joining the forum. You have already enriched us fellow members with your Gurmat wisdom and I hope you continue doing that.

    You Write:

    I totally agree with you with your above statement.

    First of all those are incomplete words of mine so, they do not give the true message.

    Allow me to re-post it :

    "It is very common that the beautiful Shabad and its message can be ruined with the incorrect literal translation which is very common in Gurbani. It is a common belief that " Poothaa" in the above Shabad and mentioned in the verse below means Son which is not only incorrect but quite insulting to our Gurus, hence, to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. People even who know Gurmukhi make the same mistake, which is sad. That is the reason Harbans Singh ji mentioned that it is sung when the son goes away or on birthdays. It is a shame because Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not sexist, to the contrary.

    In the following verse POOTHAA means a child, who could be of either gender, not just son.

    ਪੂਤਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਕੀ ਆਸੀਸ ॥
    poothaa maathaa kee aasees ||
    O son, this is your mother's hope and prayer"


    Your questions are answered by the above in bold. When GURU SHABAD is not translated properly, hence distorted then the message is ruined and lost in the wrong translation. Most of the literal translations are incorrect, hence send the wrong message rather than the SAT our Gurus tried to show us. The best example is in the post itself.

    I beg to differ because of the reasons given above. Once again, if you get the wrong message than what our Gurus wanted us to give, the message is ruined. What are you getting then? Not the message our GURUS wanted to convey to us so that we could put that into practice to breed goodness within.

    One more thing I disagree with you when you say, "
    ". Anyone can hurl insults at anyone. The insulter knows what he/she is doing which is insulting the other person or persons, however, it depends on the one towards whom the insults are hurled at how he/ she takes it.

    Yes, Our GURUS never felt insulted even though our 5th Guru was put on a hot plate, hot sand was poured on his head and was boiled in a cauldron. Same thing can be said about our 9th Guru.

    Thanks for prejudging me. I do not think that is a Sikhi trait. Giving the benefit of the doubt sure is. I am a work in progress. Sikhi is the journey of the individual, each of us carry our own spiritual torch.

    Your above statement has already been answered. It seems, I was not able to convey the message to you the way I wrote it initially. I hope it is clear now. Gyani Arshi is and others understood what I wanted to convey.


    Simpy ji,

    You are just being repetitive here. Your queries have already been responded to. It would be beneficial if you read the post all over again.

    Thanks and regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  14. simpy

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    Dear Tejwant Ji,

    Thanks for the reply. I humbly understand exactly what you are trying to say. I know that you have this understanding that ---- meaning is ruined.

    It is true when we talk about it as a scholar..... meaning is distorted.. totally agree but only as a scholar.

    Once we are connected to Guru Ji as a chela, we are protected. We are under devine shelter, He Himself provides the correct understanding Tejwant Ji. Bahn phar ke paar kaun lagaunda hai--- Guru Ji na k translator.

    All I am trying to say Tejwant Ji, you connect yourself to Gurbani that much... as per your other posts I see, just go another step forward to Guru Ji and believe Him to be the Supreme bestower of divine knowledge, leave alone these translators who distort the meaning. Share the correct understanding that He has bestowed you.............You wont loose anything....

    Those who mistranslate Gurbani---- some do it intentionally, some do it because of less understanding of the language or by mistake. Those who believe them are also in the same boat. All are learning, Guru is sitting right there within all of us-----Everybody!!!! right-------The Great Master of all is in all. By indulging into this khel of translations we only slow down our speed.....doesn't effect anybody else.....

    Never be afraid of sharing the Truth, but dont indulge in this game of incorrect translations.....just a suggestion Tejwant Ji........... Share the knowledge He has bestowed you........

    And please please---Guru is not some anyone---------------- GURU IS THE SUPREME POWER, dont underestimate the Guru. Ik Sikh nu ta eh nahi kehna chahida-- koi anjaan kahe ta keh daey ehnu pata nahi si...................
    I am not judging you to insult you my dear, I spoke the truth, I felt it should be said, so i did. I sincerely apologise for being harsh, if you think that's what it is. But I am not a person who will fold the truth in many wraps and then will unfold it one by one .... i am straight forward, especially when it is spiritual matter.

    Forgive me if i repeated myself--- galat aadat hai......been a teacher for many years :)
    Forgive me if you think I am judging you and trying to teach you something wrong. You can keep believing what you do, just wanted to share my humble thoughts. I just felt to speak up as I felt that it will help you or if not you it will help another reader..... so I did.
    Because anybody who will read in one of your post--- this person is connected to God impression
    In the other post he/she will read that-- this person is afraid that his/her Guru can be ruined by some other power---.can cofuse a person a lot more than the wrong translations :)

    Guru is the Supreme, Tejwant Ji. how can you even believe He is not, How can you?????????????????after reading so much Gurbani!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! comparing Guru to anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And you mentioned Gyani Arshi Ji and others, I suggest the same thing to all of them too--- Guru is the Supreme, no one can ruin Guru and His message-- Eh bharam hai k koi Guru da mukabla kar sakda, History gavah hai........Guru Sahib ne kain de bharam tode ne.........par bharam da illaj Guru de naal vishaas naal connect ho k hona hai. Shak te bharam rakh k nahi.........

    I repeat myself:

    How can one set their mind to surrender all to Guru if he/she thinks there are others who can ruin his/her Guru....................there are others who can insult his/her Guru..................

    Guru mera rakha sabhni thaaee.........................

    Another thing I must say--- Tejwant Ji if you were talking about just wrong translatuions and correcting it--- all that i said, it would have not been said -- I said it just because: "It is very common that the beautiful Shabad and its message can be ruined with..........quite insulting to our Gurus........"

    Beautiful Shabad is So pwerful Tewant Ji--- it can't be ruined
    Guru is so majestic---- who has the capacity to insult Guru Ji!!!!!!
     
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  15. Tejwant Singh

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    Simpy ji, ( I wish I knew your name like our GURU bestowed upon all of us by giving us the first letter of our name so I could address you in a proper manner).

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for the response.

    You write:

    Is this you opinion or have you met many scholars and by interacting with them you came to the above conclusion? Please share with us the names of these scholars so we can also learn more about them.

    All I know about myself is that I am neither a scholar, historian, an intellect, teacher of Sikhi nor do I pretend or intend to be.

    I am just a seeker, a student, a learner, a Sikh who likes to think aloud and this forum has given me that honour and privilege to do so. Nothing more.

    I agree with you, but if we do not understand or understand it in a wrong way, the message of our GURU, then we can not find the connection. One can only walk after learning how to crawl first.

    I am a bit confused by your comment above in bold which contradicts your prior statement. As you said GURU does everything which is correct then let Our GURU do the same thing to me when HE finds it fit. Our GURU does not need any person's intervention or advice.

    I never said translators distort Gurbani. I have no idea where you got that from. I am not accusing anyone. We have all these Teekas in English and Punjabi which can not be ignored. Literal translations are used all the times in all different forums. Sikhs refer to them all the times. So, what you are saying is more utopic than real.One can not understand Gurbani by just parroting it daily. One can not find the connection without Shabad Vichaar. SGGS demands that from us.

    Thanks for you advice once again. If you read my post to which you initially responded to, I exactly did that. I have no idea how you missed it.

    This is your assertion, not mine. I never said the above nor do I know anyone who has done that on purpose. Please share with us who has done that?

    I have no idea, I can not judge others why they do it. We are all trying to understand Gurbani in our own ways with references from others like Prof. Sahib Singh ji.

    Once again, this is your judgment. Only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at. Neither yourself, nor me or anyone can find that out no matter how much we try to pretend to know.

    Then please share with us what methods to use. Finding Sehaj within does not need to be speedy. To the contrary.

    Repetitive stuff as usual. Nothing new.

    Once again, I am sorry to say that you are prejudging. Where did I say that or what did I say that you inferred the above from?

    .
    One request, whatever you want to express, please write in English because we have lots of members who do not understand Punjabi.

    Well, how would you define your following statement in your initial post if not judging?

    I never claimed anything anywhere. You are reading what is not written.

    Only our GURU speaks the TRUTH. No human, either you, myself or anyone else knows the TRUTH. We think we do. TRUTH is only found in SGGS and we seek it through Shabad Vichaar. We humans speak subjectively what we may claim as the truth but it is not. It is just our opinion.

    You are talking like a teacher now who thought he has just scolded his student.LOL. I never said that you were harsh. I have no idea where you got that from. As I said before, one of the Sikhi traits is to give the benefit of the doubt to others rather than claiming to know what they are thinking.

    .
    The above seems to indicate that it is more about you than about our GURU that you mentioned many times in your post. You mean you do not give the benefit of the doubt because you decide on your own what is on someone's mind rather than asking questions to them to clarify things?


    Now you are also judging other members without knowing how or what they think which is interesting to say the least:)


    One more judgment. I never said what you claim that I did. It is all in your own imagination.

    What made you come to the conclusion that Gyani ji and others do not know that GURU is SUPREME?

    ......

    One can see that.:)

    Yes, very much so. One more request, please use English interpretation in your own words so others can also understand what you are trying to say and participate.

    One more repetition, from which there is nothing new to learn.

    Thanks and regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  16. simpy

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    Dear Tejwant Ji, I appreciate the loooong reply. So in all you are saying-- i misunderstood you... Right.

    Then clarify.

    I hope you and i speak the same English :)

    I started with your words:
    "It is very common that the beautiful Shabad and its message can be ruined with..........quite insulting to our Gurus........"


    Now when do we say something like this (in English). Only if we are scared and or concerned that somehing is being ruined and we think that we can stop it from ruining. And what that will make the thinker---obviously the protector of the thing that was being ruined.

    SO THAT MAKES ME READ YOUR WORDS AS--
    DEAR TEJWANT SIGH JI IS CONCERENED/SCARED ABOUT GURU JI's PROTECTION.
    DEAR TEJWANT SINGH JI IS POSING TO BE GURU JI's PROTECTOR.
    TEJWANT SINGH JI IS GOING TO PROTECT GURU JI FROM ANY RUINS AND INSULTS.

    NOTHING ELSE IT TELLS ME DEAR TEJWANT JI. I tried to read it all the ways-- as a scholar, as a learner, as a layman.....that's the only message it depicts to me.

    PLease clarify if my english understanding is incorrect. Please..

    And that's only why I suggested you what i suggested.

    Guru Ji is our protector, we are nothing. Your argument that you gave in your first response where you were using 'anyone'.... to explain this. Every anyone is protected by Guru Ji by all means.

    For any Sikh (Guru Ji's Student) when they correct others for wrong translations or any wrong belief-- it means that they are helping another Sikh, they never can think even slightly that other person has the capacity to ruin or insult the Supreme Power-Guru Ji. If that kind of thought comes, we should try to stop it. Help each other to get out of that sort of thinking.
    That's the concept of Sangat Tejwant Ji. We gather together by any means to assist each other on the sacred path. We are not Guru Ji's saviours. He is our Saviour.



    Thanks Tejwant Ji.:)
     
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  17. simpy

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    Your words Tejwant Ji:
    "I never said translators distort Gurbani."

    What did you mean by:"beautiful Shabad and its message can be ruined "

    ruin is even worst than distort ----- i believe in english language when we compare these two words.

    Your Words:
    "Our GURU does not need any person's intervention or advice."
    i am certainly not advising Guru Ji, where did i say anything to Guru Ji in any of my posts while talking to you. I see Guru Ji in you but i am talking to SIR TEJWANT SINGH JI.

    I am only talking to another Student of Guru Ji. And only following the concept of Sangat.


    Thanks a lot Tejwant Ji:)
     
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  18. simpy

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    Another Thing I must say-----------------

    Dear Tejwant Ji, Surrender is done to Guru Ji not anything or anyone. We are supposed to see Guru Ji in all, but still keep the Maya --the illussion aside and connect directly to Guru Ji.

    We are Sikhs, We are supposed to live in this illussionary world that is His creation as long as He wants us and as He wants us to, still stay detached from it. We are NOWAY supposed to surrender to Maya--the illussion.

    Surrendering, Becoming the dust of everybody's feet -- means we follow His Hukam, not Maya's Hukam(dictatorship of illussion). Maya-The illussion can dance and dance but a Sikh is supposed to be fixed and connected to Guru ji with full faith.... . eg: Sikh still says and thinks-- Dhan Guru Ji-- even if somebody tries his/her best to tell him/her that the Sikh's Guru Dhan Guru Grath Sahib Ji is incapable of protecting him/her and tries to give the Sikh worldly benefits. Sikh never surrender to such gifts, neither a Sikh get scared of those who pose to scare him/her of worldy pain and/or obstructions in his/her path. Our History is full of it. Surrender in Sikhi is to Guru Ji, The Supreme Power-Nirankaar Himself.

    So no True Sikh ever surrendered to Maya-the illussion, they only surrender to Guru Ji, who is present everywhere. So by-- hoe sabhna ki renuka-- becoming the dust of everybody's feet is surrendering to Guru Ji's presence in all. this is what a sikh understands and practices dear Tejwant Ji. This is what Guru Ji tells us again and again.

    Thanks again Tejwant Singh Ji
    BTW my first name is Simpy :)
     
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  19. simpy

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    Sangat Ji,

    Only following a Sikh's duty here: aap japo avra naam japavo...

    'Pray to God and help others pray to Him'

    If by believing that 'no one has the capacity to insult or ruin Guru ji' concept is wrong. And the belief that 'a fellow Sikh must not say such words that depict that Guru Ji the Supreme Power can be Ruined or insulted by another whosoever' is wrong.
    Please correct me.

    I believe that Guru Ji is everywhere and protects all, everyone.
    I believe that Guru Ji -the Supreme power is so Magnificent-- Ruining and or insulting Guru Ji is impossible. He is Nirankaar Himself. Guru Ji is the Purest and the Ultimate Truth, how can one ruin or insult Guru Ji.
    I believe that that 'anyone can harm our Guru' concept can only weaken our belief.
    I believe that 'anyone can harm our Guru' concept will not help at all in total surrender, which is the very first step in Sikhi.
    I believe that Guru Ji protects all-- sinners and non sinners.
    Sangat's concept is--help each other on this sacred path.
    I believe that if some fellow sikh is inclined to believe this concept ''anyone can harm our Guru' , one must try to offer help, accepted or rejected: that's His Will.
    I believe that we are supposed to Surrender to Guru Ji's Word and His Will only.

    Please correct me if any of this belief goes against Gurbani.

    Thanks Everyone.
     
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  20. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Mentor Writer SPNer Thinker

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    Simpy Singh/Kaur ji,

    Guru Fateh.


    All my answers are in the posts responded to you although you have failed to respond to any of my questions which is ok. I do not need any response for them anymore.:) If you can not understand my responses then I am sorry, I can not help you anymore.

    Thanks for prejudging members of this forum.:)

    Enjoy your journey.:)

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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