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Gurbani (795-831)
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Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
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Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
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Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
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Gurbani (1197-1200)
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Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
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Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
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Gurbani (1294-96)
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Gurbani (1352-53)
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Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
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Kachi Bani
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<blockquote data-quote="Luckysingh" data-source="post: 161814" data-attributes="member: 16886"><p>Sat sri akaal</p><p> </p><p>With regards to kachi bani. I personally feel it's a grey area where everone has different views.</p><p>My confusion, I'll explain.....</p><p>I am no musician but I very much enjoy all sorts of music. </p><p>I really enjoy kirtan a great deal. Infact, when I normally just read a shabad or hear it, the 1st thing I do is try to relate it to some shabad kirtan I may know.</p><p> </p><p>Now, I have also recorded my own kirtan, for my personal use only. These are gurbani shabads that I have taken from kirtan books and used my own melodies to get a composition. Most say they are good. But, I only have these for myself and immediate family, I don't intend to distribute them or otherwise, Im no musician or raagi and like I say they are just for personal use.</p><p> </p><p>My concern is that I've been told that this is kachi bani because I have swayed away from the traditional raags with my own tunes and melodies. -Fair enough-</p><p> </p><p>Now, I totally understand that Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal Jis shabads are to be done in raags along with hyms from Guru Gobind and Guru Granth Sahib ji. Thus the true emotion and feeling is experienced in the raags, no doubt. I also have come to believe in presence of Guru Granth Sahib (in gurdwara) they should be sang in raag.</p><p> </p><p>But, I was asked by the gurdwara to perform or let young students perform my versions. I refused on the grounds that it's kachi, as that's what I was told by a few. I know that kachi should NOT be done in presence of the Guru Granth Sahib.--This is what i've come to believe--</p><p>However, granthis, raagis and others all give me different answers, some say it's fine, others say not!</p><p>Although, quite often I've heard raagis get slated because they are using bollywood tunes or other melodies. I noticed this a great deal more back in UK gurdwaras than here in Canada.</p><p> </p><p>Please note, I'm not trying to endorse or seek permission here. I just want some light on what exactly constitutes to kachi bani. Does using other melodies, like plenty of raagi do, constitute to kachi. If so, then it shouldn't be done in Guru's presence, I feel.</p><p> </p><p>The contents of SRM in relation to this are below</p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">a) Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">b) Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">d) It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain. </span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>In d it mentions the 'refrain' which in musical terms refers to chorus or paused repeating at intervals. So, I think the concern here is mostly with the refrain being more than one line. Which still doesn't give me a positive answer.</p><p>Or is it just the fact that certain raagis would be accustomed to kirtan in specific raags and when they hear a different version -they critisize-?</p><p> </p><p>My other question is- what is the difference with the thaddis (perform standing) and kirtan performed seated? Can the thaddis do kachi ?? </p><p>I'm sorry its a silly question, but I will probaly get better answers here. Or is it that, may be I'm too embarassed to ask someone in person!!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Sat Kartar</p><p>Lucky Singh</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Luckysingh, post: 161814, member: 16886"] Sat sri akaal With regards to kachi bani. I personally feel it's a grey area where everone has different views. My confusion, I'll explain..... I am no musician but I very much enjoy all sorts of music. I really enjoy kirtan a great deal. Infact, when I normally just read a shabad or hear it, the 1st thing I do is try to relate it to some shabad kirtan I may know. Now, I have also recorded my own kirtan, for my personal use only. These are gurbani shabads that I have taken from kirtan books and used my own melodies to get a composition. Most say they are good. But, I only have these for myself and immediate family, I don't intend to distribute them or otherwise, Im no musician or raagi and like I say they are just for personal use. My concern is that I've been told that this is kachi bani because I have swayed away from the traditional raags with my own tunes and melodies. -Fair enough- Now, I totally understand that Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal Jis shabads are to be done in raags along with hyms from Guru Gobind and Guru Granth Sahib ji. Thus the true emotion and feeling is experienced in the raags, no doubt. I also have come to believe in presence of Guru Granth Sahib (in gurdwara) they should be sang in raag. But, I was asked by the gurdwara to perform or let young students perform my versions. I refused on the grounds that it's kachi, as that's what I was told by a few. I know that kachi should NOT be done in presence of the Guru Granth Sahib.--This is what i've come to believe-- However, granthis, raagis and others all give me different answers, some say it's fine, others say not! Although, quite often I've heard raagis get slated because they are using bollywood tunes or other melodies. I noticed this a great deal more back in UK gurdwaras than here in Canada. Please note, I'm not trying to endorse or seek permission here. I just want some light on what exactly constitutes to kachi bani. Does using other melodies, like plenty of raagi do, constitute to kachi. If so, then it shouldn't be done in Guru's presence, I feel. The contents of SRM in relation to this are below [FONT=Arial]a) Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation. [/FONT] [FONT=Arial]b) Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures. [/FONT] [FONT=Arial]c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]d) It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain. [/FONT] In d it mentions the 'refrain' which in musical terms refers to chorus or paused repeating at intervals. So, I think the concern here is mostly with the refrain being more than one line. Which still doesn't give me a positive answer. Or is it just the fact that certain raagis would be accustomed to kirtan in specific raags and when they hear a different version -they critisize-? My other question is- what is the difference with the thaddis (perform standing) and kirtan performed seated? Can the thaddis do kachi ?? I'm sorry its a silly question, but I will probaly get better answers here. Or is it that, may be I'm too embarassed to ask someone in person!! Sat Kartar Lucky Singh [/QUOTE]
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