Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Arvind, Jul 21, 2004.
Sri Har Krishan ji dhiyaiye,
Jis Ditthe Sab Dukh Jaye
Can you please enlighten me by sharing who wrote the above verse and what does it really mean?
Peace & Love
I dont know about the writer and meaning. Just liked to chant this sometimes. Only thing, I know is - this tuk appears in Ardaas.
Kindly share your knowledge Tejwant ji.
It seems, Guru Har Krishan (Dev) ji didnt contribute to Guru Granth Sahib ji in terms of any writings there in.
Not sure, but today only this came to my mind that, these lines appearing in ardaas, are taken from Chandi di Vaar written by Guru Gobind Singh ji. So looks like we know the author.
It is said to be from Guru Gobind Singh ji. But the question comes to mind that our Guru who sacrificed HIS FATHER, 4 sons and himself (so that we can all seek Ik ONG KAAR) and never added a word of His in SGGS, would write ARDAAS where He will praise Bhagauti the hindu Goddess first and foremost rather than MEREI LALAN KI SOBAH??
Just thinking aloud as usual.
Peace & Love
Dear veer tejwant
In the translation of Chandi di vaar Prinicipal Nihal Singh Rus, tries to clarify this doubt that Sri Guru Gobing Singh ji is bowing to the Hindu Godess Durga or Kaali here, rather he is using the term "Bhagauti" for the all prevailing power of Akal Purakh which is also known as Bhagwant or bhagwaan used very liberally in the SGGS. as Bhagwaan is formless omnipresent and in the shape or form of bhagauti is there in the whole universe.
Dear etninder Jee,
I find it very difficult to accept the meaning people give to the Bhagauti. All what they say are statements; the basis for accepting that meaning is not given.
Bhagvant to Bhagvati there is a world of difference, and so is the case with Bhagwan. Unless this gap is bridged by etymologically establishing the link, it is difficult for me to accept these meanings.
In the ancient Indian text, the word Bhagwan was use to mean God. In Buddhist scripture and post Buddha Hindu literature the same word is used for exalted teacher. That is why Gautam Buddha was referred to as Bhagwan and more recently Acharya Rajnish (Osho) was referred to as Bhagwan. If you reach that exalted position one day, I will have no hesitation in addressing you as Bhagwan because I have a basis, but to accept Bhagauti some thing other then Kali, I think I will only be fooling myself.
With Love and Respect for all.
Can you please post the translation of Chandi di vaar by Prinicipal Nihal Singh Rus here so that we can compare it with our benchmark called SGGS?
Peace & Love
While talking with snavneet on other site, our interpretations didnt seem to match initially, but then his response was:
"I'd come to accept Bhagauti as "Waheguru" as well as "The weapon that destroys all evils". I'd come across the word "Bhagauti" before but considered it as "Waheguru" and when I started learning about Nitnem and Ardaas, I got to know that "Bhagauti" can also be considered as the "Holy Sword of Waheguru", which itself is indescribable and is used to destroy all evils."
Add-on: Symbolic expression of calling it just a sword is not sufficient.
And this explanation did make sense to me.
With all due respect, I beg to differ with you. If "Bhagauti" is considered as the "Holy Sword of Waheguru", which itself is indescribable and is used to destroy all evils," contradicts MOOLMANTAR the bedrock of Sikhi in which IK ONG KAAR is formless. Why would THE SOURCE which is formless need Bhagauti- a steel sword- which has a definite form-to destroy evil? Formless needs no form to do anything.
Just for the sake of argument if we take Bhagauti as a 'Holy Sword of Waheguru', then we are worshipping the "Holy Sword" which is an object(idol) rather than THE FORMLESS- THE ONLY ONE.
Please do not take me wrong, I am not trying to make mockery of ARDAAS but to the contrary. I am trying to connect the dots between what we read in SGGS and other things that we think are correct in the GURMAT sense. That's the only reason I posed the same question of Ardaas in this forum and also at Sikhnet.com. I feel uneasy when I decipher Ardaas with the tools given to us in SGGS. I have also requested Etinder Veer ji to post the whole translation so that we just do not get stuck with the first word i.e. Bhagauti.
We all need more research in this subject.
Peace & Love
I see your point Tejwant ji, and agree about formless point. However, one good thing I realize, the more we get confused, the deeper and everlasting understanding dawns, when truth appears. Hopefully, our this confusion doesnt last long.
Looking forward to the work by Principal Nihal Singh 'Ras' regarding this.
Guru Granth Sahib ji (Page 274)
Sukhmani Sahib 9th ashtapadi:
Bhagautee bhagwant bhagat ka rang.
Sagal tyage dusht ka sang.
Mann te bisre sagala bharam.
Kar pooje sagal parbrahm.
Sadhsang papa mal khove.
Tis bhagautee ki mat uttam hove.
Bhagwant ki tahal kare nit neet.
Mann tann arpai bisan preet.
Har ke charan hirdai basavei.
Nanak aisa bhagautee bhagwant ko paave.
Considering above as bhagautee's traits, I wonder if this stands for a Gursikh!!!
Just thinking aloud
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh.
IMHO if "just ditheh" i.e. looking...at Guru Harkrishan Ji could make all your DUKH go away....
Then what can we say to those Sikhs who go to the Gurdwara...just lift up the Rumaala of Guru Granth Sahib jee.....and DITHEH ( LOOK) and hope that ALL their DUKH will go away as "promised" by the author of this verse...
Such a LOOK should be very powerful as Guru harkrishan Ji in human form was just ONE GURU...here GURU GRANTH is GURU JYOT of all Ten Gurus ( although this is also a fallacious argument because all the 'ten" gurus were in Fact ONLY ONE JYOT - GURU NANAK...which is proved by them all using the Name Nanak in their Gurbani.
IMHO...just looking will not take away our dukh which are caused by MAYA and ATTACHMENT. To make our dukhs go away we will have to Take GURBANI at its WORD...Thaal wich teen wastu paiyoh satt santokh vicharoh Je ko KHAVEH, Je KO BHUNCHEH tis ka hoi UDHAROH....meaning you have to EAT (practise) GURBANI, MUNCH/SWALLOW, ...and then ONLy will the GURBANI MEDICINE cure you of all ills.
Just like just "thinking" about your doctor, or "visiting" him, or even seeing him and receiving the medicine from him, BUT NOT EATING it, following his instructions, etc IS NOT GOING TO MAKE YOU BETTER.....same with Gurbani.
This i cannot reconcile this tuk with GURBANI/GURMATT in Guru Granth sahib. Jee.
Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.
And see what the author says about guru teg bahadur sahib Jee:
Teg bahadur simreeah ghar nau nidh aveh dhaiyenh... meaning if you simar or think upon ponder upon teg bahadur..Nau nidhs ( and 18 sidhian) will come flooding into your home...
If we read the GURBANI of Guru teg Bahdur Sahib jee... we will NEVER find a single tuk in which Guru ji exhorts us to go after the 9 nidhian and 18 sidhian...IN FACT His Gurbani exhorts us forcefully to WAKE up before it is too late, Do Naam jaap, Simran and use this human form for better use.....and we all know for sure that going after Nidhan sidhan are WASTING TIME. Guur nanak Ji in his Sidh Ghost already REJECTED all the Ridh sidh nau nidh etc the Yogis sidhs had acquired after meditating decades in solitude...
NOW why would a SIKH want the nau nidh etc when Guru nanak says REJECT them ??? IMHO very difficult to reconcile this TUK with GURBANI as well
Think about Sri Harkrishan Ji, basically think, meditate and live by Bani, and by God’s Glance of Grace, you shall not Suffer