Pauri 7 Jap(u) Ji Sahib - Question About Pauri 7

Discussion in 'Jup Banee' started by BhagatSingh, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh SPNer sikhiart.com

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    Ok I've haven't been on this site like forever now. So this is my way of getting back on.
    I have a friend who was reading SGGS and she pointed out the 9 continents in SGGS.
    I'll paste the whole pauri, below. I want to know what you guys think. To my knowledge there are only 7 continents. I know some say that some continents should be considered one, but that means there are less than 7 continents. So, where do these 9 continents come from.

    ਜੇ ਜੁਗ ਚਾਰੇ ਆਰਜਾ ਹੋਰ ਦਸੂਣੀ ਹੋਇ
    जे जुग चारे आरजा होर दसूणी होइ ॥
    Jė jug cẖārė ārjā hor ḏasūṇī ho*ė.
    Even if you could live throughout the four ages, or even ten times more,

    ਨਵਾ ਖੰਡਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਨਾਲਿ ਚਲੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ
    नवा खंडा विचि जाणीऐ नालि चलै सभु कोइ ॥
    Navā kẖanda vicẖ jāṇī*ai nāl cẖalai sabẖ ko*ė.
    and even if you were known throughout the nine continents and followed by all,


    ਚੰਗਾ ਨਾਉ ਰਖਾਇ ਕੈ ਜਸੁ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਜਗਿ ਲੇਇ
    चंगा नाउ रखाइ कै जसु कीरति जगि लेइ ॥
    Cẖanga nā*o rakẖā*ė kai jas kīraṯ jag lė*ė.
    with a good name and reputation, with praise and fame throughout the world-

    ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਆਵਈ ਵਾਤ ਪੁਛੈ ਕੇ
    जे तिसु नदरि न आवई त वात न पुछै के ॥
    Jė ṯis naḏar na āvī ṯa vāṯ na pucẖẖai kė.
    still, if the Lord does not bless you with His Glance of Grace, then who cares? What is the use?

    ਕੀਟਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੀਟੁ ਕਰਿ ਦੋਸੀ ਦੋਸੁ ਧਰੇ
    कीटा अंदरि कीटु करि दोसी दोसु धरे ॥
    Kītā anḏar kīt kar ḏosī ḏos ḏẖarė.
    Among worms, you would be considered a lowly worm, and even contemptible sinners would hold you in contempt.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਗੁਣਿ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਗੁਣਵੰਤਿਆ ਗੁਣੁ ਦੇ
    नानक निरगुणि गुणु करे गुणवंतिआ गुणु दे ॥
    Nānak nirguṇ guṇ karė guṇvanṯi*ā guṇ ḏė.
    O Nanak, God blesses the unworthy with virtue, and bestows virtue on the virtuous.

    ਤੇਹਾ ਕੋਇ ਸੁਝਈ ਜਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਕੋਇ ਕਰੇ ॥੭॥
    तेहा कोइ न सुझई जि तिसु गुणु कोइ करे ॥७॥
    Ŧėhā ko*ė na sujẖ*ī je ṯis guṇ ko*ė karė. ||7||
    No one can even imagine anyone who can bestow virtue upon Him. ||7||
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
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  3. Astroboy

    Astroboy ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) Writer SPNer

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    Compare your given translation with this :-

    If one could extend one's life to four ages,[SIZE=-1](1)[/SIZE]
    nay make it ten times longer;
    If one were known throughout the nine planes of creation;
    And everyone therein followed him in respect;
    If every creature praised him to the sky:
    All this and more has no value if God's eye looked not
    kindly upon him:
    Without His goodwill, he will be reckoned as
    the meanest worm amongst worms;
    And sinners shall charge him with sins.
    O Nanak, He bestows virtues on those who have none,
    and adds to the store of the virtuous.
    But there is naught that can bestow aught upon Him.
    (1) Nanak here is referring to the ancient Indian doctrine of the four Yugas or cycles of time, which somewhat parallels the Western belief in the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. Nanak makes frequent use of such concepts and doctrines from ancient Hindu lore; but He refers to them not in a spirit of scientific truth, but often as a Divine poet, who employs allusion and mythology to drive home His point.
     
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  4. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh SPNer sikhiart.com

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    hmm that makes sense.
    I was looking up nine continents on google and found that in the Chinese philosophy, there are nine continents.
    But again when Guru SAhib says that God has created infinite worlds and such, then why stick to jsut 9 continents/ planes of creation.
    I see how Guru Nanak is talking to a certain audience here, and is refering to what they know.
    But this also relates to the 84 lakh joons. Akal's creation is infinite so why say 84 lakh joon?
     
  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) Writer SPNer

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    In Sukhmani Sahib, there is another reference about Nau Khand.

    Nau Khand Prithmi Firrey Chirr Jeevai

    and many other references too like this one :-

    Page 208, Line 2
    ਨਉ ਖੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੀ ਇਸੁ ਤਨ ਮਹਿ ਰਵਿਆ ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਾ ॥
     
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  6. Canuck Singh

    Canuck Singh SPNer

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    Hmmm interesting...
     
  7. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh SPNer sikhiart.com

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    yes why again mention that He is in the nine continents of the world when He is everywhere?
     
  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Mentor Writer SPNer

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    its a figure of speech...in relation to common usage of such phrases at that time...Hindus beleived in a certian number of worlds..mulims beleived in a different number of worlds..etc etc.
    It doesnt mean Guru Ji is "limiting" to just 9..or 18...or "everywhere"...
    Just for arguments sake..
    Everywhere" is also a LIMITATION as far as Akal Purakh is concerned..He is BEYOND ALL LINGUISTIC "WORDS".......
    we must go for the ESSENCE..the SPIRIT of Gurbani...not split hairs/dissect individual "words"...

    In Modern Usage we had the MISS WORLD..( even though she is not really "world") then we had to have MISS UNIVERSE...next will be MISS MILKY WAY..MISS ANDROMEDA......just "words"....merely words...to express an idea...???? similar to Nau Khands..18 nether worlds...???

    The ESSENCE is that AKAL PURAKH IS WAY WAY BEYOND.......whatever word we use will be way way not enough...

    Gyani jarnail Singh:happy:
     
  9. onkar singh

    onkar singh SPNer

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    Delighted..JAP SATNAM SADHA SATNAM..To improve the quality of life & awarness..
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Mentor Writer SPNer

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    there used to be "nine" planets...for along long time..BUT.....no more !!! as our instruments and scientists get smarter...we can now safely "see" more than 9 in our own family...way way beyond into the universe.
    ONLY GURBANI stays true forever....
    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  11. Jaspreet08

    Jaspreet08 SPNer

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    I also wonder about the Chaursi lakh joona too. Is that also a figure of speech?
     
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Mentor Writer SPNer

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    IMHO...YES. 84 lakh..42 lakh on land..42 lakh in water....(sky left out..outer space also forgotten...what about other Planets..universe....or are we as egotistic as the Christians/Muslims etc who think our EARTH is the one and ONLY !!!..all ginntee minntees..numbers...to confuse and waste time...Gurbani mentions just as "figures of speech to ILLUSTRATE a CONCEPT GURU JI is trying to put across to us...)

    Gurbani is about AKAL PURAKH...beyond all ginntee minntees and restrictions .
    OUR ORIGIN is in AP....and the MAKSUD...the entire POINT of being HUMAN is to REJOIN AP...and GURBANI instructs us..Gobind millan ke EHH teri barreah...Human BIRTH is ONCE in a life time oppurtunity...

    Imagine being given a golden chance to Sit for an all important EXAM with a LIMITED TIME SPAN to answer the questions....and we begin to spend precious time DAY DREAMING....about WHAT "all the others" OUTSIDE the Exam Hall are doing..what they did in previous janams..etc etc etc and then the Supervisor says TIMES UP..hand over your papers....and we glance down at our BLANK PAPER !!! Oh my GOD..!!!! whose fault is that ??
    AP created the cows and the buffaloes and the dogs and the...whatever....it is NOT our position to "worry" about their "past janams" and crimes they committed or paaps punns etc etc and whether we are going to become dogs or cows....The IMPORTANT THING is we are NOT..cows or dogs BUT SIKHS with the precious GURBANI to do vichaar on and PRACTISE...Kirt karnee, wand chhaknna and NAAM JAPPNNA... concentrate on the EXAM PAPER....
    Too simplistic ?? maybe....but i am a simple SIKH. I DO exactly WHAT my Beloved GURU ji told me to do....as best as i cna and elave the worrying to others who have the inclinations...

    Gyani Jarnail Singh
     
  13. Jaspreet08

    Jaspreet08 SPNer

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    Ahhh...I use to wonder about the outer space thing. If there asank loa then there must also be asank jeev. Then how does Akaa Purakh limit it only to 84 lakh joon?

    Thank you, Gyaniji.

    Waheguru Ji Ki Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  14. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb Writer SPNer

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    Sat Sri Akaal,

    Gurus Bani is Eternal, internal relates to external.

    Without experience of Sach Khand but active Nine Khands.

    All khands are internal and not related to continents. It is reference of wrong translation.

    ਜੇ ਜੁਗ ਚਾਰੇ ਆਰਜਾ ਹੋਰ ਦਸੂਣੀ ਹੋਇ
    जे जुग चारे आरजा होर दसूणी होइ ॥

    One has lived through all four yugs, ie having life experience of four yugs and extrapolated may be for 10 yugs.

    ਨਵਾ ਖੰਡਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਨਾਲਿ ਚਲੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ
    नवा खंडा विचि जाणीऐ नालि चलै सभु कोइ ॥


    Is well known in all nine realms, and top higher ups of all the realms know and like to accompany.

    for Eg A Doctor or A Judge Or A Business Man or a Spiritual person all good and bad people want company of reputes persons and want to get socially connected.


    ਚੰਗਾ ਨਾਉ ਰਖਾਇ ਕੈ ਜਸੁ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਜਗਿ ਲੇਇ
    चंगा नाउ रखाइ कै जसु कीरति जगि लेइ ॥One is also having good name and reputation.


    But the person is unaware of his own self, no one comes to cares of that one, after position/active age/ richness is gone.

    Life of such person comes like as a low form, and as lower forms have negativity and vices remained

    for eg termites also build house, have kingdom, inherit life, and lead cycle of life.

    Says Nanak, With Self awareness, even the kings, riches, top brass ie already posessing good virtues with awareness can get TRUTH of Nature. Realise Sach Khand and improve there lifes
    And with lesser virtues, get reputation and virtuous.

    Eg Syanap in humans one relates to age, formal education and position,. Money and reputation But at off positions, richness, at inactive age, as one has
    negativity like old age people, without self awareness, young keep away from them.
    ,arrogance of aurangzeb killing innocents.

    Have dukh. Negativity (DUKH)
    Paap (Vices)

    Next one understand awareness of MIND memory system and how one can erase Dukh and Paap by intutive listening

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018

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