Is Homosexuality / Transsexuality A Punishment Because Of Karma Of Previous Lives? | Sikh Philosophy Network
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Is Homosexuality / Transsexuality A Punishment Because Of Karma Of Previous Lives?

Currently reading:
Is Homosexuality / Transsexuality A Punishment Because Of Karma Of Previous Lives?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
I am 23 year old youth living in indian metropolitan city . By the time I was 13 , I started having crushes at same-sex people . I was kinda effeminate growing up . I never had any interest in sports like cricket , etc . Rather I liked to play with girls .
Now , I find myself attracted only to men . My sexuality is not what stresses me or makes me feel guilty . Its the negative reaction of narrow minded indians around me that affects me .
People wonder why I chose to be gay . Well , I didn't ! Who would choose to be hated , despised , rejected , denied marriage , etc .
I sometimes wonder if my homosexuality is a result of my previous janam's paap ?

I am agnostic . I used to be amritdhari and used to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , but growing up I realize the more pain the world is in , the more I doubt about the existence of a loving , merciful caretaker !

Is homosexuality a way of god to punish me for previous janams paap , by embarrassing , humiliating me by giving a gay life ?
sometimes i feel really sad and alone . even my parents dont know
 

Attachments

Last edited by a moderator:

aristotle

SPNer
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,156
Likes
2,649
Location
Ancient Greece
Well, I know it can be difficult for someone to open up to their sexuality in a conservative society as that of the Indian subcontinent, but the fact is, the more you supress who you are, the more you get tormented deep inside. Have you considered visiting a counsellor?
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
5,761
Likes
8,152
Age
50
Seeker2013ji

Thanks for your frank post, allow me to reply given what I know at this time.

Sikhism for me does not allow for previous lives, when you are dead, you are dead, the karma issue is a Vedic issue that I believe some Sikhs cling on to for the sake of personal peace of mind, ie, what happens when you die, as far as I am concerned you die, and that is it, your nutrients are returned to the earth, and your memory in other people is your legacy, be it good or bad.

Now onto homosexuality, you know a lot of people are born with some sort of sexual leaning, and it can be very powerful, some only get aroused by various body parts, some by older or younger partners, some lust after plus size women, as it is, you got homosexuality.

I did a survey of all my cousins once, it turned out we all had the same fetish, which means it must be in your system, it is not something you were exposed to, things could not have been different, the decision was made before you were even born.

Now, out of all the things you could have got, lucky you, Sikhism has nothing against homosexuality, you can be a homosexual and a Sikh, the same rules regarding lust apply.

If it is any help, I went through much the same anguish at your age, not because of homosexuality, but because my girlfriend when I was 20, was a 43 year old divorcee with three kids older than me. So like you, I had a secret life, how you deal with this is up to you, that is a different topic altogether, but one in which I am more than happy to give you my opinion on, but for the moment, recognise that everything you know about Sikhism is probably wrong, the rituals, the poorenmashi, the caste, karma, rebirth, there is much much more to Sikhism than all this, you may be surprised.

As stated earlier these are my own opinions, others may feel different and are free to put their own point of view.
 

aristotle

SPNer
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,156
Likes
2,649
Location
Ancient Greece
I am agnostic . I used to be amritdhari and used to
read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , but growing up I realize
the more pain the world is in , the more I doubt about
the existence of a loving , merciful caretaker !
Is homosexuality a way of god to punish me for
previous janams paap , by embarrassing , humiliating
me by giving a gay life ?
I wont go into the discussions of a God or no God, or the Karma theory, or why there are miseries in this world. One thing I cannot help but ask is why are you connecting your sexuality with your religious status? It makes no relevance what you believe in, unless that is the thing you want to talk about.
At the same time, you cannot blame others for being narrow minded when you are considering your sexuality in negative attributes. If you feel its the time to come out of the closet, so be it.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
5,761
Likes
8,152
Age
50
I wont go into the discussions of a God or no God, or the Karma theory, or why there are miseries in this world. One thing I cannot help but ask is why are you connecting your sexuality with your religious status? It makes no relevance what you believe in, unless that is the thing you want to talk about.
At the same time, you cannot blame others for being narrow minded when you are considering your sexuality in negative attributes. If you feel its the time to come out of the closet, so be it.
harsh, but also true........

As Sikhs it is the truth that we follow, although thinking back to when I was 20, I think I would rather have run away than admit to my girlfriend, so although the truth is there to be followed, it can be bloody hard, but it does get easier as you get used to it. Can you try baby steps? drop a few hints? have a long term plan?
 

aristotle

SPNer
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,156
Likes
2,649
Location
Ancient Greece
harsh, but also true........

As Sikhs it is the truth that we follow, although thinking back to when I was 20, I think I would rather have run away than admit to my girlfriend, so although the truth is there to be followed, it can be bloody hard, but it does get easier as you get used to it. Can you try baby steps? drop a few hints? have a long term plan?
In the end, all of it drops to one thing; we all have to carry our own crosses. Whether it be sexual life, career or anything else, the responsibility of the choices we make cuts down to us, it makes us who we really are, those choices become our very existence.
 

Inderjeet Kaur

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
871
Likes
1,766
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Well, I know it can be difficult for someone to open up to their sexuality in a conservative society as that of the Indian subcontinent, but the fact is, the more you supress who you are, the more you get tormented deep inside. Have you considered visiting a counsellor?
If you get counselling in India, be very careful. Counselors are as prejudiced as other people. They are human beings, after all.

I do not know why some people are gay. I think some are born that way, but I'm not sure. One thing I am certain of: God (your Creator) is not punishing you for anything. Sikhi does not teach of a critical, judging Creator. Leave that to the Christians and Muslims.

Although I am hetero, I am a long time advocate of equal rights, including marriage, for lesbians and gays. Yours is a most difficult path. I pray that you live your life with the strength and courage you will need, that Sikhi can give you.

BTW, we are all agnostic, whatever we say we are. Belief in "God" is belief, not fact; the existence of "God" cannot be proven. Atheism makes no more sense than theism. There is no way to prove that "God" doesn't exist, so atheism is also a belief. I very strongly believe in the Creator, many of my friends claim to be atheists.

We all have problems; part of the meaning of life comes from learning how to solve them or learning to live joyfully with them if they cannot be solved. I am working for the time when being homosexual will just be the way some people are, as being heterosexual is just the way some people are. Until then, best wishes and high regards, young friend. Be of good cheer and remain in chardi kala.

:) :icecreammunda:
 

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
Well, I know it can be difficult for someone to open up to their sexuality in a conservative society as that of the Indian subcontinent, but the fact is, the more you supress who you are, the more you get tormented deep inside. Have you considered visiting a counsellor?
I have visited a gay counselor . But you must be knowing how typical punjabi families are .
I am the only child of my parents . My dad was an alcoholic and my mother has for her most life suffered with his alcoholism and still raised me well enough .
I feel like she's going to be real down if she comes to know I am gay .

I won't keep this secret inside me forever . My parents deserve to know . I am going to let them know that I am gay in a controlled situation some 2 yrs down the line
 

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
Seeker2013ji

Thanks for your frank post, allow me to reply given what I know at this time.

Sikhism for me does not allow for previous lives, when you are dead, you are dead, the karma issue is a Vedic issue that I believe some Sikhs cling on to for the sake of personal peace of mind, ie, what happens when you die, as far as I am concerned you die, and that is it, your nutrients are returned to the earth, and your memory in other people is your legacy, be it good or bad.

Now onto homosexuality, you know a lot of people are born with some sort of sexual leaning, and it can be very powerful, some only get aroused by various body parts, some by older or younger partners, some lust after plus size women, as it is, you got homosexuality.

I did a survey of all my cousins once, it turned out we all had the same fetish, which means it must be in your system, it is not something you were exposed to, things could not have been different, the decision was made before you were even born.

Now, out of all the things you could have got, lucky you, Sikhism has nothing against homosexuality, you can be a homosexual and a Sikh, the same rules regarding lust apply.

If it is any help, I went through much the same anguish at your age, not because of homosexuality, but because my girlfriend when I was 20, was a 43 year old divorcee with three kids older than me. So like you, I had a secret life, how you deal with this is up to you, that is a different topic altogether, but one in which I am more than happy to give you my opinion on, but for the moment, recognise that everything you know about Sikhism is probably wrong, the rituals, the poorenmashi, the caste, karma, rebirth, there is much much more to Sikhism than all this, you may be surprised.

As stated earlier these are my own opinions, others may feel different and are free to put their own point of view.
What ! You don't believe in reincarnation and claim to be a sikh ??!!!
sorry I don't want to sound intolerant but reincarnation stuff is mentioned right there in the sikh scripture .

"Jamm jamm marey , marey fer jamey , bahut saza paya des lambe" or something I remember reading from sikh scripture . So sikhism is very clear on reincarnation .

I have been to some other "INTOLERANT" sikh online forums where they don't even let you post anything about sexuality or lock your thread within 24 hours
after you have received some replies and some people there did tell me homosexuality might be some sort of punishment from the creator

MAYBE THE MERCIFUL , LOVING GOD TORMENTS YOU FOR YOUR SINFUL PAST LIFE WHICH ITSELF WAS IN HIS HUKAM
(O the irony !! :p )
 

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
I wont go into the discussions of a God or no God, or the Karma theory, or why there are miseries in this world. One thing I cannot help but ask is why are you connecting your sexuality with your religious status? It makes no relevance what you believe in, unless that is the thing you want to talk about.
At the same time, you cannot blame others for being narrow minded when you are considering your sexuality in negative attributes. If you feel its the time to come out of the closet, so be it.
Why wouldn't I ?
Growing up we were taught God is this 'fuzzy , loving , merciful , omnibenevolent (and all other types of 'omni.....' ) . And when I finally grew up , I see this world is a mess , there is war , pain , suffering and where is the lord of this world ?
 

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
In the end, all of it drops to one thing; we all have to carry our own crosses. Whether it be sexual life, career or anything else, the responsibility of the choices we make cuts down to us, it makes us who we really are, those choices become our very existence.
Thats very true , jee ! I have myself reached at this inferences at times when I feel I am the only one having a sad life . But then I realized people are having it worse , much worse .

Sometimes I wonder whether I am over-thinking . Whether I should even be fretting over my sexuality even if it seems hopeless . Like maybe there are more serious thing to worry about : career , enjoying life ;)

It only hurts the most when I am made to realize that I am different , get treated like I am the 'other' , when I see these movie hoarding boards and romance can only be between 1 man / 1 woman and gay character is only as a joke . Or when my friends talk about their girlfriend
thats when I feel left out
 

aristotle

SPNer
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,156
Likes
2,649
Location
Ancient Greece
Why wouldn't I ?
Growing up we were taught God is this 'fuzzy , loving ,
merciful , omnibenevolent (and all other types of
'omni.....' ) . And when I finally grew up , I see this
world is a mess , there is war , pain , suffering and
where is the lord of this world ?
Like I said before. What your views are about God and religion shall perfectly be respected. But why on the earth do you want to bring up this topic on a thread that discusses about sexuality. If you want to 'blame' God for being gay you can. But please remember you can't complain at God and not believe in him at the same time.
 

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
Like I said before. What your views are about God and religion shall perfectly be respected. But why on the earth do you want to bring up this topic on a thread that discusses about sexuality. If you want to 'blame' God for being gay you can. But please remember you can't complain at God and not believe in him at the same time.
I know that .
I won't discuss about god again .
 

Ishna

Enthusiast
Writer
SPNer
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,246
Likes
5,185
What ! You don't believe in reincarnation and claim to be a sikh ??!!!
sorry I don't want to sound intolerant but reincarnation stuff is mentioned right there in the sikh scripture .
Harry veerji isn't alone in his belief, however you might want to read some of the other threads at SPN if you're interested to learn some more about so-called "reincarnation in Sikhi" and discuss it there because it will derail your thread here otherwise.

It is pertinent to your issue so I do recommend having a look at threads about reincarnation, and karma, here at SPN.
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
822
Likes
1,291
Location
kuwait
I have visited a gay counselor . But you must be knowing how typical punjabi families are .
I am the only child of my parents . My dad was an alcoholic and my mother has for her most life suffered with his alcoholism and still raised me well enough .
I feel like she's going to be real down if she comes to know I am gay .

I won't keep this secret inside me forever. My parents deserve to know . I am going to let them know that I am gay in a controlled situation some 2 yrs down the line
This is what happens to the majority of kids of broken family. When gurbani uses the word purblay karam, guru sahib is not referring to previous life but the nursery stage.

I know a Sikh family in New York whose son was gang raped by group of black. I said whatever has happened, it is happened. Use your discriminatory intellect and don't tell everyone. He told his parents who in turn disclosed to everyone. Today he has children but all relatives and friends looks at him as insulted person and his children are not able to get match, thus blame their father.

My point is how to get away from it. Gurbani guidance is for us, 'ਭਾਂਡਾ ਧੋਇ ਬੈਸਿ ਧੂਪੁ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਤਉ ਦੂਧੈ ਕਉ ਜਾਵਹੁ ॥ this scar will only go once you surrender your matt and make inner journey and let fragrance of amrit rupi milk - divine traits control your mind otherwise even sharing with your parents or anyone else will only contaminate your mind further which will surround your mind with lots of fear eventually leading to hollow rituals.

best regards
sahni
 

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
This is what happens to the kids of broken family. When gurbani uses the word purblay karam, guru sahib is not referring to previous life but the nursery stage.

I know a Sikh family in New York whose son was gang raped by group of black. I said whatever has happened, it is happened. Use your discriminatory intellect and don't tell everyone. He told his parents who in turn disclosed to everyone. Today he has children but all relatives and friends looks at him as insulted person and his children are not able to get match, thus blame his father.

My point is how to get away from it. Gurbani guidance is for us, 'ਭਾਂਡਾ ਧੋਇ ਬੈਸਿ ਧੂਪੁ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਤਉ ਦੂਧੈ ਕਉ ਜਾਵਹੁ ॥ this scar will only go once you surrender your matt and make inner journey and let fragrance of amrit rupi milk - divine traits control your mind otherwise even sharing with your parents or anyone else will only contaminate your mind further which will surround your mind with lots of fear eventually leading to hollow rituals.

best regards
sahni
I am not a big believer these days but I SWEAR that was the same pangti that I got when I went to SGGS for a hukamnama regarding my sexuality
but I rarely understood what it means and everyone has different interpretation of it .
I have always counseled Guru Granth sahib whenever I had issues in my life and I think I did get some pangtis which reflected my that state of mind , but however it could also just be a fallacy . Our mind interprets the verses as it is currently in !
So one may feel like its god talking to them personally but I doubt it !
I know this is going to offend some of u , but TBH I don't even see SGGS anything more than a scripture now , a lifeless book which can never guide anyone .

And regarding your claims of me having a broken family , well yeah somewhat I never had a proper childhood but then again children have had worse childhoods and much more broken families . They don't turn gay or otherwise !
Also , many gay kids had a very good family .
You are trying over simplification , though I never rule out the influence of my childhood in my sexuality
 

Seeker2013

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
408
Likes
173
Age
29
this scar will only go once you surrender your matt and make inner journey and let fragrance of amrit rupi milk - divine traits control your mind otherwise even sharing with your parents or anyone else will only contaminate your mind further which will surround your mind with lots of fear eventually leading to hollow rituals.
what ???!!!!!!!
what hollow rituals are you talking about ?
 

angrisha

SPNer
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
95
Likes
231
Age
33
Location
Canada
So one may feel like its god talking to them personally but I doubt it !
I know this is going to offend some of u , but TBH I don't even see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji anything more than a scripture now , a lifeless book which can never guide anyone .
The beautiful thing about faith is, you can walk away from it but it never really leaves you. Its a door that can always be reopened again.

And regarding your claims of me having a broken family , well yeah somewhat I never had a proper childhood but then again children have had worse childhoods and much more broken families . They don't turn gay or otherwise !
Also , many gay kids had a very good family .
You are trying over simplification , though I never rule out the influence of my childhood in my sexuality
The problem I have with this statement is the one in bold. Until you can learn to accept every part of yourself as a part of who you are, no one else ever will. You were not TURNED a particular way, it is how you were created. You first have to learn to accept yourself, you are no less or more than anyone else who may be different than you. You were created whole, and you are such regardless of how you believe at the moment. I hope one day you will allow yourself to see that.

You can blame your childhood all you want, we all have a past and we all have stories we tell ourselves. Those 'stories' are not who you are, they are apart of your ego which keeps you trapped in the belief that you are some how less than. Until you are willing to let go of your stories that you have told yourself, you wont ever be content with who you are in this moment.

You want to be reconcile your sadness then figure out what is causing you to be sad? What are you afraid of and what are you ashamed of? You dont want to follow SGGS thats fine, you dont have too. But searching for answers outside yourself is pointless unless you are willing to go within first.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top