How Do We Obtain A Human Birth? | Sikh Philosophy Network
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

How Do We Obtain A Human Birth?

Currently reading:
How Do We Obtain A Human Birth?

Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
70
Likes
10
Location
New York City
Is it just a gift from Guru Sahib, or is it because as lower species we did good deeds? Is it possible for a lower species to do good deeds since they are ruled by instincts?
 

Ishna

Enthusiast
Writer
SPNer
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,246
Likes
5,185
Is it just a gift from Guru Sahib, or is it because as lower species we did good deeds? Is it possible for a lower species to do good deeds since they are ruled by instincts?
Great question. Do you think "lower species" have a faculty of reason developed to the point where we can judge them on the moral correctness of their choices? I don't, and it's evidence to me that this idea is not plausible.

At any rate, Japji Sahib answers your question on Ang 1:

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਆਕਾਰ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਕਹਿਆ ਜਾਈ
Hukmī hovan ākār hukam na kahi▫ā jā▫ī.
By His Command, bodies are created; His Command cannot be described.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਜੀਅ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ
Hukmī hovan jī▫a hukam milai vadi▫ā▫ī.
By His Command, souls come into being; by His Command, glory and greatness are obtained.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ
Hukmī uṯam nīcẖ hukam likẖ ḏukẖ sukẖ pā▫ī▫ah.
By His Command, some are high and some are low; by His Written Command, pain and pleasure are obtained.

ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ
Iknā hukmī bakẖsīs ik hukmī saḏā bẖavā▫ī▫ah.
Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever.

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਕੋਇ
Hukmai anḏar sabẖ ko bāhar hukam na ko▫e.
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.​
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
70
Likes
10
Location
New York City
Great question. Do you think "lower species" have a faculty of reason developed to the point where we can judge them on the moral correctness of their choices? I don't, and it's evidence to me that this idea is not plausible.

At any rate, Japji Sahib answers your question on Ang 1:

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਆਕਾਰ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਕਹਿਆ ਜਾਈ
Hukmī hovan ākār hukam na kahi▫ā jā▫ī.
By His Command, bodies are created; His Command cannot be described.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਹੋਵਨਿ ਜੀਅ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ
Hukmī hovan jī▫a hukam milai vadi▫ā▫ī.
By His Command, souls come into being; by His Command, glory and greatness are obtained.

ਹੁਕਮੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ
Hukmī uṯam nīcẖ hukam likẖ ḏukẖ sukẖ pā▫ī▫ah.
By His Command, some are high and some are low; by His Written Command, pain and pleasure are obtained.

ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ
Iknā hukmī bakẖsīs ik hukmī saḏā bẖavā▫ī▫ah.
Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever.

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਕੋਇ
Hukmai anḏar sabẖ ko bāhar hukam na ko▫e.
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.​
Thank you for your answer. No, I don't think lower species have any intellect that makes their actions worth judging. Quite frankly, I think most animals behave far better than a lot of humans since their only violence is for self-protection and food.
 

Sikhilove

Writer
SPNer
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
608
Likes
160
Thank you for your answer. No, I don't think lower species have any intellect that makes their actions worth judging. Quite frankly, I think most animals behave far better than a lot of humans since their only violence is for self-protection and food.
Who knows how it works
 

Harkiran Kaur

Leader

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,393
Likes
1,906
Thank you for your answer. No, I don't think lower species have any intellect that makes their actions worth judging. Quite frankly, I think most animals behave far better than a lot of humans since their only violence is for self-protection and food.
I don’t know about that. I have seen heroic acts by animals saving their humans. I have seen heroic acts of one species taking in another’s babies even though normally they’d eat them. I have similarly seen pets purposely act out when they don’t get their own way with such calculation you’d never assume it was simple ‘instinct’. And no, not all animals do violence only for protection and food. Some ‘play’ with their kills. They hunt for sport (I have seen it in felines).
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
70
Likes
10
Location
New York City
I found In SGGSJi

Page 365, Line 8
ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਤਿ ਊਤਮ ਹੋਈ ॥
हरि कै भाणै जनमु पदारथु पाइआ मति ऊतम होई ॥
Har kai bẖāṇai janam paḏārath pā▫i▫ā maṯ ūṯam ho▫ī.
By the Pleasure of the Lord's Will, the prize of this human birth is obtained, and the intellect is exalted.
Guru Amar Das

However, I also found:

Page 493, Line 14
ਮਾਣਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਪੁੰਨਿ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਈ ॥
माणस जनमु पुंनि करि पाइआ बिनु नावै ध्रिगु ध्रिगु बिरथा जाई ॥
Māṇas janam punn kar pā▫i▫ā bin nāvai ḏẖarig ḏẖarig birthā jā▫ī.
Human birth is obtained through good actions; without the Name, it is cursed, totally cursed, and it passes away in vain.
Guru Ram Das

I know SGGSJi does not contradict itself, so I am believing that a human birth comes through Guru Sahib da hukam in response to our previous good deeds. But when did we perform those good deeds?
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
70
Likes
10
Location
New York City
I don’t know about that. I have seen heroic acts by animals saving their humans. I have seen heroic acts of one species taking in another’s babies even though normally they’d eat them. I have similarly seen pets purposely act out when they don’t get their own way with such calculation you’d never assume it was simple ‘instinct’. And no, not all animals do violence only for protection and food. Some ‘play’ with their kills. They hunt for sport (I have seen it in felines).
That is interesting. I too have seen some pretty generous actions by animals, both for each other and for their owners if they are pets, but I had no idea some animals made sport with their victims. I thought all animals were ruled completely by instinct and only killed for food. However, I had had some friends who claimed their dogs believed they were human. In fact, I had a friend with a small dog who had been gifted its own small fur coat and insisted on wearing it when it went out for walks, even when the weather was nice. One of the reasons I became a vegetarian before taking amrit was because I saw a science program in which the narrator said that being an animal is living in a state of constant terror--of being killed or of not finding enough food--and when an animal is being hunted or frightened it is in so much fear that it is physically painful for them.
 

Harkiran Kaur

Leader

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,393
Likes
1,906
Here are a couple examples... first a cat saves a boy from a dog attack. If cat was operating only on instinct it would not put its own life in danger to save a member of a completely different species.

Second a mix... try to see them as only acting on instinct. Would a dog acting only on instinct try to nudge water over a fish who is gasping for breath or of water? Or would hippos put themselves in danger from a crocodile to save a deer who the croc had already in its jaws? A dog finds a human infant newborn abandoned... and just watch.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
70
Likes
10
Location
New York City
Here are a couple examples... first a cat saves a boy from a dog attack. If cat was operating only on instinct it would not put its own life in danger to save a member of a completely different species.

Second a mix... try to see them as only acting on instinct. Would a dog acting only on instinct try to nudge water over a fish who is gasping for breath or of water? Or would hippos put themselves in danger from a crocodile to save a deer who the croc had already in its jaws? A dog finds a human infant newborn abandoned... and just watch.
Wow! That is amazing! Thank you so much for posting those. I had no ideas animals could be so unselfish and kind. I especially like the dog putting water on the fish, but I really can't pick out which was my favorite. But what is fascinating is that a dog would know that a fish needs water to live.

Could such actions be counted by Guru as making them worthy of a human birth? They are in such contrast to the selfish of the majority of humans and the corruption, hatred, spite, and violence of so many others (...countless are the sinners, the cut-throats, those who eat filth, etc.) In any case, the animals on your video prove to me that Guru lives in all living beings.
 

ravneet_sb

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
508
Likes
303
Age
47
Sat Sri Akaal,

Humans take a human form, with inherited animal instincts. E motions are dominated by these instincts to perform external physical actions. Purposefull life of human living beyond survival issues of SELF sustainability leads to selfcentric development.
SEVA and SIMRAN are grace to human form. Throught spiritual text umderstanding and implementation, one make a human being

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Top