How Do Animations Of Sikh Gurus/Heroes Hurt Religious Sentiments?

[Admin]

The following responses i got in the email in response to the newsletter we sent... it is posted as it is...

Waheguru jee ka Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Internet Forum is for healthy discussion but it is up to an individual
whether someone agrees or not because no one can force one's
views on others. I maintain that Idols/Paintings/Pictures/<wbr>Photos
of the Gurus Sahibaan are not the right way of propagating the
Sikh Tenets. No one says that Sikhs follow Islam but we should
always remember that Muslims are more 'pucca' in their faith
without having paintings of their Prophets than the Sikhs, who
may not be more than 2.5 million as we can observe the
number of 'voters' for the next SGPC election?

Comments forwarded by Veer Verpal Singh (New Zealand) and
Prof. Devinder Singh Chahal (Canada) are also reproduced below
for the information of the Members.

Gurmit Singh (Australia)

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Dear S Gurmit Singh jio,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa; Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

Thank you for your well thought out response to Bibi Narayanjot Kaur. I will add the following:
1. Whether an image is still or animated, it does violate the injunction to not make images of our Gurus.
2. Animated images are another step in the wrong direction - a direction which was taken when images of the Gurus were allowed to be freely available to the Sikhs. The mistake was compounded many fold when these images were put up in the Sikh Ajaibghar at Darbar Sahib and allowed to be sold by shops there. Average Sikh assumed that if an image is available in Darbar Sahib complex it must be acceptable.
3. Animated images now add voice of an actor (pretending to be Guru) to an image claiming to be of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh. This is clearly an escalation of an act (creating an image of the Guru) that is patently against Gurmat principles. Further escalation will be a real actor replacing the animated figure - possibly the same person who gave the voice to the animated images.
4. I find it flabbergasting that we are not thinking through where creating an image of the Guru will ultimately lead us. And is our creativity so limited that we are unable to find ways to use the current technology to deliver the message of Gurmat without creating images of our Gurus?

When Institute of Sikh Studies was consulted by makers of Sahibzadey, regarding whether it violated a Gurmat principle, my view was that the movie-makers should start after 1708 when Guru Gobind Singh died. My objection was to actors pretending to be Sahibzadey and giving voice to animated images. What happened with animations of the Gurus is exactly what I had warned in 2001-2002. This is an escalation and we need to oppose it tooth and nail because if we do not, the Chinese are already dishing out plastic statues of Guru Nanak, which Indian grocery shops had started selling in Auckland. (Thankfully, the shopkeepers listened and stopped doing so.) By the time we realize what had happened, we will find Sikh homes having a small statue with "dhoof" burning alongside a gutka of Gurbani. Who would want to read and understand Gurbani when merely burning dhoof will be enough to give us the false feeling of having done what we need do to be a Sikh.

Kind regards,



Verpal Singh (New Zealand)

******************************<wbr>**********

S Gurmit Singh has defined idolatry very well and also about the paintings of Guru Nanak or other Gurus.

It is also true that none of old or prevailing paintings of any Guru is true to their real images.
It is very strange that real paintings of some famous persons happened before Guru Nanak are available but none of Guru Nanak.

Similarly original writings of some famous persons happened before Guru Nanak are available but none of the original writings of Guru Nanak is available.

According to Prof Sahib Singh writings of Guru Nanak came to Guru Angad then to Guru Amardas then to Guru Ramdas and finally to Guru Arjan.

What did Guru Arjan do with those original writings?
Where are those old writings of the Gurus?

My following inquiry may look very rude and disrespectful but the Sikh theologians must think over it seriously:

If Idol worship is prohibited in Gurbani then why do the Sikhs treat the Aad Guru Granth Sahib exactly like an idol as is done by Hindus. The Sikh say Bogh laoo Ji, and say Ardas addressing the AGGS for fulfilling the wishes?

Rumalas are offered to the AGGS with the request for Prem patola tan so ditta Dakan ko pat meri. It is the same way as Muslims offer a Chadar on the grave of a saint or pir and the Hindus offer Chuni (dupata) to the Devi idol and gold necklace and mukt to idol of Krishna and Rama. There are many other ritual around the AGGS which can be directly or indirectly related to idol worship.

We have to look into these issues seriously about depicting Gurus in paintings and about the type of idol worship being performed by the Sikhs.

Regards,
Devinder Singh Chahal

Prof Devinder Singh Chahal, PhD
Institute for Understanding Sikhism
4418 Rue Martin Plouffe,
Laval, QC, Canada, H7W 5L9
450-681-1254

http://www.iuscanada.com

http://www.iuscanada.com/

 

[roopsidhu]

SSA,
The main question in this thread was whether images of gurus will promote idolatry and what you understand of indian law for hurting religious sentiments?
Here we are discussing idolatry in general. In this respect its very sad to state that we sikhs are perfoming idolatry same like hindus. Gurbani teaches us against it but still we sikhs are more into it. bur we always try to cover it saying we are doing this just for respect which is not true. Starting from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, beri sahib, idols of shaheeds, sarovars, blood tilak of shashtras of gurus and almost everything we do reflects towards idolatry which is stricktly prohibited in gurmat. When non-sikhs do idolatry, we sikhs condemn it. When we sikhs perform idolatry we name it as custumary, offering respect, mariyada and ignorance etc.
The fact is that the anti-sikh forces are trying their best to popularize idolatry and other hindu customs to hinder the progress of sikhism. They do not like us sikhs to follow the true teachings of gurbani and get enlightened. Its a anti-sikh propoganda and sikh leaders are just ignoring it for their personal gains.
May god bless us with understanding the gurbani and living our lives accordingly.
Roopsidhu

 

[spnadmin]

There seems to be fear or buried assumption that a picture/statue/animation will lead to idolatry. Almost automatically and without awareness on the part of the one looking at the image. That is where I am truly struggling, because i have no desire to hang a picture of any Guru in my home, nor do I purchase posters, calendars, postcards with pictures of the Gurus on them. At the same time, a picture of Guru Nanak or Guru Arjan Dev in a video of a Gurbani Kirtan does not move me to want to worship the video. Take a look at Post 2 in the thread. Many of the examples of images have never raised an eyebrow. Yet the animations have raised a furor. That led in the following days to injunctions against all images of our Gurus.

A fear runs through the discussion that Sikhs will revert to Hindu beliefs and practices (granted some Sikhs have never left them in the past). I find it remarkable that the Internet outrage was about the "animations" and images, but there was no outrage against the content of the stories. When I watched the videos, the content was in places reminiscent of superstitious thinking. That should have disturbed someone. It did not.

But the Sikh Rehat Maryada is always extremely clear when it forbids a practice, giving the context from Hindu or Muslim worship -- with the objective of clarifying why Sikhs are neither Hindu nor Muslim. The Sikh Rehat Maryada is also extremely clear in forbidding idolatry. Yet nowhere have I found that the SRM forbids images. It requires as follows,

Living in Consonance with Guru’s Tenets
Article XVI

A Sikh’s living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru’s tenets. The Guru’s tenets are:

(a) Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.
(b) Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth and the ten Gurus word alone as saviors and holy objects of veneration.
(c) Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.

Why do we jump ahead and assume that creating an image/animation will result in using the image as an object of veneration? Does looking at an image equal idolatry? Is the caution against Hindu practices? Is a Muslim practice the cure?

Next post lists what is forbidden and why. Rituals and practices are forbidden. Idolatry is forbidden. Are we free to add to the SRM and progress onward to additional taboos based on our fears?

 

[spnadmin]

Forbidden,



(d) Not believing in cast or descent, untouched ability, magic, spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of start, horoscopic dispositions, shradh (ritual serving of food to priests for the salvation of ancestors on appointed days as per the lunar calendar), ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries of the death of an ancestor), pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased’s relatives), patal (ritual donation of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of the departed soul), diva (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts, hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfillment of a purpose) jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut (keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread), bhadan (shaving of head on the death of a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on the forehead, wearing thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi stalk [A plant with medicinal properties], veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances. [Most, though not all rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are Hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continued to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to the new faith and a large bulk of the Sikh novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle-hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus secular and religious life which the Brahmin priest managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates include a sizable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni, etc.] [

Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru’s place - such, for instance, as sacred spots or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.

Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri (Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun), the Gita, the Quran, the Bible, etc.. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.

 

[mukul singh]

Take an example from Ramayan,where anyone is free to become Shri.Ram now & few fools make joke them,after any human or animations which will play as anygod will become part of joke someday day because there is no shortage of fools who make fun of it.
I am also an 3d animator & a sikh. I thought about making an 3d movie based on our sakhi, however thinking about later consequences regarding making fun of things, i dropped the idea.
Any animation or individual becoming God should not be promoted.
GOD is already Here & we all know him by ' Shri Guru Granth Sahib JI '

Gursikh
Mukul Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Take an example from Ramayan,where anyone is free to become Shri.Ram now & few fools make joke them,after any human or animations which will play as anygod will become part of joke someday day because there is no shortage of fools who make fun of it.
I am also an 3d animator & a sikh. I thought about making an 3d movie based on our sakhi, however thinking about later consequences regarding making fun of things, i dropped the idea.
Any animation or individual becoming God should not be promoted.
GOD is already Here & we all know him by ' Shri Guru Granth Sahib JI '

Gursikh
Mukul Singh

I agree God is already here. But are you now saying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is God - that a book has become a God? Not an animation but a book?

 

[BhagatSingh]

There is a misconception prevalent among Sikhs that bowing to representations of something like images and statues is idol worship. ... and that bowing down is some kind of worship.

As soon as someone says its OK to bow down in a Hindu Temple. He is automatically an idol worshipper, anti-Sikh and should be made to apologize.

Indians bow down to respect. Its like saying I am not "greater than thou" (something many Sikhs have forgotten).

When I went to India, I asked my Grandma why she folded her hands and did a subtle bow gesture everytime she saw a painting of Guru Nanak Dev ji and Guru Gobind Singh ji around the house.
You know what she said to me. She said I while I am busy doing house work (for most of the day), by chance I see the picture, for me its a chance to remember God and remember our history.

 

[roopsidhu]

SSA,
yes Narayanjot Kaur ji, you are right, You have noted the same point from Mukul singh ji's post which I have noted also. Many of us are speaking against idolatry but when it comes to SGGSji or other sikhi monuments, then we close our eyes and never try to see that what we are doing, the way we react and the deeds we do are also idolatry. Yes you are right,Dhan Dhan Sri guru granth sahib ji is not God either. I think the problem is in our preaching system. An awareness drive aboute real sikhi ways is the need of the hour. SPN and various other websites are doing very good job and are playing a vital role in awarenedd drive. May god bless you all with more means to proceed further.
Roopsidhu

 

[Jasvinder singh lota]

waheguruji ka khalsa waheguruji ki fateh,there can be nothing more narrow minded than calling animations of our gurus as idolatory,if you want sikhi to be taught even to our own children there can be nothing better than showing such animated history of our great gurus and sikhs to our young generation and the best way to teach sikhi and influence young minds ,those calling it idolatory may be doing so with some vested interest and definitely not a bit in the interest of sikhs. it is nothing short of foolishness.

Jasvinder Singh Lota

 

[spnadmin]

roopsidhu ji

Your concern about the way we educate is where my thinking is running as well. Guru Nanak's shabads never condemned idolaters. Instead he made it his lifetime mission to teach a different way, a better way, a way that would fill mind and heart with so much love of Naam that there would be no room left for idolatry. He taught all the peoples he could reach this lesson. We have a God who is without hatred and without animosity. It makes sense to me then that teaching with love and concern is the way. There will always be people who must hang onto objects for emotional reasons. If there were no animations, there would be something else, some other object would take its place. If we teach rather than ban, do we not set a better example of spiritual purity?

 

[ugsbay]

SSA.
I personaly thought those animations was a excellent way to educate our toddlers, i dont realy know where the idoltry comes into it but maybe it is each individuals perception. Just my opinion appologies if i am wrong.

 

[ik-jivan]

So there, we've finally hit on it - we need a medium for the message. The objects of faith are that medium, but to manage the message - ensuring that it is accurate - we are now thinking we need to control the medium.

I suppose it is true that little statues of Guru Nanak ji could be sold along side the plastic ones of the Buddha. So be it. Will Sikhs buy them? Do Sikhs need little forms to hold onto while they do Simran or read Gurbani in devotion to the Formless One? Who would buy a little ‘Sikh Buddha’?

I giggle thinking about the ‘idolatry’ among my neighbours. Here you can find a Hindu burning incense to an image of Guru Nanak ji in her shop. You can find a Sikh wearing a kara and sacred threads from his recent visit to shrines to Mahadeva and Hanuman. You can find Kirtan playing and Guru Nanak ji images in another shop, where the Sikh owners are very concerned about caste associations and couldn’t muster even a smile for a strange face.

There is a lot of Hinduism in Sikhi . . . or perhaps it is better said that there are a lot of Hindus in Sikhi. Education would solve the problem. Gurbani, Katha, Sakhi, Vichar . . . we have all the tools, so let’s each be sure to help those struggling to learn. I have compiled all the Punjabi-English translation audios of the Nitnem, Sukhmani Sahib, Simran and Kirtans and have begun making copies for friends who ask for them. Despite appearances, the ‘idol worshipping Sikhs’ do understand Ik Onkar, but it would seem the tendencies toward Hinduism are hard-to-break habits. BTW: The Hindus I know also understand Ik Onkar.

Remembering that Sikhi is an evolution out of Hinduism, we should also understand that Guru Nanak Dev ji was a Hindu with a very highly evolved consciousness, capable of receiving the Gurbani. None of us are that evolved, but He left us with written instruction for becoming more enlightened. We are all under the tutelage of Waheguru in one big class. Yet, each religion is a distinct study, designed for the students’ stage of learning.

Perhaps the idolatry problem has arisen because Hindus felt some kind of pressure to convert? What are your thoughts?

Sat Sri Akal,
t

 

[Rupinder.Singh]

roopsidhu ji

Your concern about the way we educate is where my thinking is running as well. Guru Nanak's shabads never condemned idolaters. Instead he made it his lifetime mission to teach a different way, a better way, a way that would fill mind and heart with so much love of Naam that there would be no room left for idolatry. He taught all the peoples he could reach this lesson. We have a God who is without hatred and without animosity. It makes sense to me then that teaching with love and concern is the way. There will always be people who must hang onto objects for emotional reasons. If there were no animations, there would be something else, some other object would take its place. If we teach rather than ban, do we not set a better example of spiritual purity?

Dear Narayanjot Kaur Ji

A very nice thought. You have highlighted the pitfall, which we all(most of the times) miss to notice all the time.

Our Gurus, never condemned any religion. But they condemned, the false practices coined by leaders of those religions.

Above is the approach we need to follow when educating Sangat.

Take an example of my village Gurudwara, We have hindu and Sikh sangat in the village and they all visit Gurudwara

Now if a granthi says Sikhs are not supposed to worship IDOLs coz it is hindu practice..IMO it will be wrong, it will convey wrong message to our Hindu brothers/sisters. and it is open violation of sikh principle of "universal brotherhood"

But rather if Granthi simply explains that Sikhism is all about realizing omnipresence of GOD. And just assuming GOD lives in certain places, pictures, idols or other objects, and thus worshiping those objects/places would be a false ritual and would undermine the omnipresence of GOD. That is why Such practices and Rituals are not promoted and performed in Gurmat. ( ...there is no need to relate it to any other religion...)

This explanation will raise many other questions in aspiring minds, but then asking questions is the way to eliminate duality. And elimination of Duality is what SGGS talks about..imo.


Rest on your thoughts
mundahug

 

[mukul singh]

Dear Narayanjot Kaur Ji

A very nice thought. You have highlighted the pitfall, which we all(most of the times) miss to notice all the time.

Our Gurus, never condemned any religion. But they condemned, the false practices coined by leaders of those religions.

Above is the approach we need to follow when educating Sangat.

Take an example of my village Gurudwara, We have hindu and Sikh sangat in the village and they all visit Gurudwara

Now if a granthi says Sikhs are not supposed to worship IDOLs coz it is hindu practice..IMO it will be wrong, it will convey wrong message to our Hindu brothers/sisters. and it is open violation of sikh principle of "universal brotherhood"

But rather if Granthi simply explains that Sikhism is all about realizing omnipresence of GOD. And just assuming GOD lives in certain places, pictures, idols or other objects, and thus worshiping those objects/places would be a false ritual and would undermine the omnipresence of GOD. That is why Such practices and Rituals are not promoted and performed in Gurmat. ( ...there is no need to relate it to any other religion...)

This explanation will raise many other questions in aspiring minds, but then asking questions is the way to eliminate duality. And elimination of Duality is what Sri Guru Granth Sahib talks about..imo.


Rest on your thoughts
mundahug

SatSangat Ji,

Truly said however, the facts cannot be taken lightly that animation may play a vital role in knowledge but will harm more. We connot stop any object from being displayed, its how we react on it.

Think some funny stuff came on our guru & is spread accross, how much you & i are willing to stop it.when anything goes excess the importance comes down, that is why there are certain rules to maintain the respect & interest of people.

Everyone cannot think the same way we do.its not about omnipresence of god,its about allowance which may further bring us issues.

Ask me i am an animator, i have made monalisa photo into a cartoon, my office guys animations in funny manner.

I am a sikh & understand the importance but the people who don't will not be stoppable if they made this as a trend,

The jokes are on santa banta & sardaars are already into trend ,if they become once on waheguru ji then think it will burn us inside out.

I hope i am able to communicate.

Sat Shri Akal
Mukul Singh

 

[mukul singh]

I agree God is already here. But are you now saying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is God - that a book has become a God? Not an animation but a book?

Sat Shr Akal Ji,

Narayanjot Kaur JI i am sorry to say but it is said by Guru Gobing Singh Ji, that I am present in Granth Sahib JI.

We all respect it worship it not for being just a book.

If believe is what ur talking about then,close you eyes take a deep breath don't think anything & exhale it slowly, the comfort you find it for that second is GOD.

Guru Granth Sahib JI is direction to right path which i believe we don't follw much (myself).

The debate here is on animation which i believe should not be opted as an option for education on religon or may be it should stick to registered animators to some organisation.

Gursikh
Mukul Singh

 

[spnadmin]

mulkul singh ji

You if you are Khalsa are present as Khalsa not as God. Guru Gobind Singh said to his khalsa you are my guru (on earth) and that does not take the place of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the final guru. The meaning of Dasam Pita is the subject of another thread, Claiming yourself to be God does not make it so, and really is a diversion from the thread topic.

Further digressions will be deleted. Thanks.

 

[mukul singh]

mulkul singh ji

You if you are Khalsa are present as Khalsa not as God. Guru Gobind Singh said to his khalsa you are my guru (on earth) and that does not take the place of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the final guru. The meaning of Dasam Pita is the subject of another thread, Claiming yourself to be God does not make it so, and really is a diversion from the thread topic.

Further digressions will be deleted. Thanks.

narayanjot Kaur Ji

I didn't at all meant that i am god, i can't be, probably i was not able to communicate well through my words, if i hurt any sentiment of yours or anybody i am extremely sorry.

Mukul Singh

 

[spnadmin]

mukul singh ji

You did not hurt my sentiments. It is really hard to offend me or hurt my religious sentiments so don't worry about it. I have a thick skin. And actually I was more worried about you than anythings.

 

[anilbhardwaj]

Gur fateh,
We have to be very careful and attentive against those actions who put animations on sites. It should be declare as crime to interfere against the sentiments of ones religion, specially sikh religion. our religion is facing various kind of internal and external attacks. so prepare yourself and others to follow Gurmat.
WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
Panth da dass
Anil Bhardwaj

 

[ik-jivan]

Somewhere in this thread, I am sure Aman Singh posted a few letters from different people questioned about this matter. One response indicated concern about statues of the Gurus being made and sold along side plastic Buddha forms. I questioned ‘Who would buy them? Surely NOT Sikhs.’

I guess I was wrong. I’m not sure if you have seen the Power of Khalsa video (YouTube- power of khalsa). It’s a great performance of Gatka. But watch to the end. . . the performers present the judges with Guru statues.

I really don’t know what to think now. I’m sure that neither party will use these statues as idols, but Sikhs supporting the manufacture through purchase of them is not something I expected.