And here's the part where I kick myself out of Sikhi by saying I agree with you, I don't want to do it because a religion requires it, I want to do it because Creator requires it, and I'm not seeing where It's requiring it... *takes cover behind the nearest park bench*I don't want to do it because a religion requires it
I can only speculate as I have no references to cite. I don't think any particular attention was given to the dress of women in the Guru's time. Indian women already wore chunni/dupatta and that was enough.I am going to ask some of those who are farther along on the path and actually spoke with Guru ji on his earthly stay. I wonder if it was only about modesty or if he taught anything about the crown chakra.
ItsmaneetjiGood work Ishna Ji ....
I hope Harry Ji see this video as why i & many support covering head
I think it goes far beyond India actually. IE: Mother Mary pbuh is always seen with a "veil".The chunni/duppata has a long history in India. It's use in Sikhi is firmly rooted in this history and is all about modesty and respect for elders.
I love how you gathered all this info. I have read in a few places how some Sikhs refer to the turban (Sikh Dharma teaching perhaps?) as a crown. From the perspective of "crown", we can begin to wonder if we are actually seeing through a veil of maya & honoring the crown chakra. It might explain why so many religions have their heads covered during worship. We may not even be aware of how that effects the aura and energy.Sikh Dupatta:
03.14 "Symbolyses humility, symbolises respect, symbolises femininity"
03.46 "It's part of my identity"
I agree. I don't think any kind of clothing is preferred by God or not preferred.If women wish to cover their heads, not cover their heads, walk around half naked, walk around in a sleeping bag, its all the same to me.
I really could not care less, it has nothing whatsoever to do with me. If my own wife decided to wear a huge turban, thats fine too.
The only other comment I would make is that one women used the words symbol and symbolism several times, I do not believe in symbols, I believe in the real thing, for the record
Harry ji, remember you live in Great Britain in the 21st century. There are many countries which still view women as the inferior gender. The west has only progressed in this area in the last few decades. Not all parts of the world have achieved this yet.So to cover your head symbolises respect, or, symbolises to another that wearer is respectful, respectful of what exactly?
.If I meet a stranger, I will always show respect if that stranger is worthy of it, this generic showing of respect to all and sundry, to me , seems mired in an age when women were chattels and were required to show respect to men, regardless of the man
You are also attached to symbols. How do you make a purchase? With coins and paper that symbolize money. Money itself is a symbol. Is it meaningful to you?If you are Khalsa, and wish to wear a turban as it is part of you, much kudos to you, if you are not, and you wish to cover your head for the purposes of symbolism, then what exactly are you hoping to achieve?
I do not see the 5 K's as symbols at all, to do so would be ritualistic in my opinion. The 5 K's are expressions of love, additions to the human body, a joyful expression of passion. I would certainly say my life is not enriched by symbolism.I guess I fall somewhere in the middle, but its interesting you feel that way since the 5Ks are symbols. I think these symbols help connect some Sikhs to the Divine Experience. Some find beauty and meaning in that symbolism. Without symbolism, we would have very little art to enjoy in the world. Some lives are enriched by symbolism; others aren't.
Respectfully, I disagree, I find it filled with truth and fact, but that is not in any way meant to negate what you feel, I think its wonderful you feel the way you do.The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is filled with symbolism. It adds to it beauty, imho.
I find the scenery detracts me from the path. The path is of relative importance to all of us, for me, the path is literally the only I way I can save myself, without the path, I am dead. I guess I envy you in a way, strolling down the path, enjoying the scenery, some times it is like that for me, maybe I will reply to this post again when it is like that, but for now, no, no eyes of the roadYou may prefer a path without that kind of scenery, but some love to take in the scenery as part of their journey.
I wear no jewellery at all, no wedding ring, no KaraAs an example, I have worn a Kara for years. I read in a book last week that it, in a sense, symbolizes being a soul bride the same way a wedding ring symbolizes marriage. I can't describe how that cut through so much maya for me when I contemplated on that
I cherish such interaction with Creation, however, I try not to read anything into these, I find reading things is a step to magical, ritualistic practices. Creator does not need to communicate with me via Creation, Creator is in my head always, 24/7 I can sense Creator and Creators will at all times. Again, I have felt the essence of what you are saying in my youth, but I found myself getting myself in knots, such and such is a 'sign', that noise is a 'sign', etc etc, I found that as my faith grew, the need for signs were less, but this is a personal observation and not meant in any way to disregard your experience or what it meant to you peacesignkaurI think God often speaks to many souls through symbols. I am thinking of how Native Americans see signs when they have contact with a certain animal. It is full of symbolism as they reflect on what the animals qualities are teaching them. I recently had a hummingbird pause for 3 or 4 minutes right above me with one eye taking me in. It didn't take long to be warmed by the realization that the hummingbirds nourishment is nectar...amrit!
Anything symbolic has the potential to be everything and nothing. Words can be empty, promises can be empty, the truth is not symbolic, the truth is the truth, communicate with honesty, you may find a lack of symbolism.Words are symbols. Numbers are symbols. Bills and coins are symbols. Promises are symbols. You would not be able to communicate without symbols
And the more women in those parts of the world submit to outdated cultural practices, the longer it will take to be accepted as equals.Harry ji, remember you live in Great Britain in the 21st century. There are many countries which still view women as the inferior gender. The west has only progressed in this area in the last few decades. Not all parts of the world have achieved this yet.
Some men need to address their own issues, this statement is paramount to 'she was asking for it, she was wearing a miniskirt'. If a man has issues with his own lust, if he cannot control himself, than that is his problem, women should be free to wear whatever they wish without worrying about the effect it is going to have on the man, the poor fool, who is unable to control himself. A Sikh man should be able to look at any woman, even a naked woman, without losing himself.I feel this is an important part of being a Sikh man, all women are sisters, mothers, daughters. How will women achieve equality in this way?Some men need a constant reminder that a woman is a woman not an object of lust. In that sense, modesty is a spiritual truth for people because lust interferes with union w/ the Divine. To dress provacatively means elevating the risk of succumbing to lust.
If I meet a stranger, I will respect them by having no particular opinion either way, I would not bow, but I may shake hands. If after conversation, I find ideals or facets that I find worthy of respect, I will show my respect by way of a hug. Sometimes if someone has made a huge impression on me, when we finish hugging, we both may have tears in our eyes, you dont get that from covering your head lol lolI believe you are saying two different things about respect. You say it should be a "generic" showing of respect yet you say only if a stranger is "worthy of it". How do you know when a stranger is "worthy of it"? Isn't all existence deserving of the same respect since the sacred exists within it all.
I disagree, symbols mean nothing. I make purchases with promissory notes that do not symbolise money, they are a legal note, I would concede that coins, in the absence of any promissory statement could be viewed as a symbol, but I would say the notes set the tone.You are also attached to symbols. How do you make a purchase? With coins and paper that symbolize money. Money itself is a symbol. Is it meaningful to you?
I would never disrespect anyone, however, anyone whose faith is deepened by a symbol, I would say has possibly not got the true essence of Sikhism, my opinion only. To a true Sikh, those 'symbols' are like flesh, part of the body, it is not a case that Kesh stands for this, or Kara stands for that, they are as important as an arm or a leg, and losing such is equally as painful.And I think there should not need to be a debate over the value of 5K symbolism . They are full of meaning and I don't see how you can disrespect Sikhs who feel their faith deepens by those symbols.
I am sorry you have suffered so, I hope Gurbani and the study of, helps you change this into something positive.E- For me, the kirpan is a potent symbol. I have PTSD. I am afraid of everything. I have had PTSD since my childhood. To respond with fear is automatic. I actually fear knives because they were one of the things that caused me to get PTSD. So the "symbol" of a knife has frightened me.
I have a complete belief in a non interventionist God, so the thought that God keeps me away from my enemies is alien.But...the beautiful part is that I had a realization that kirpan would help me remember God is my Sword...the One who keeps me away from my enemies. And it could help me have the courage to defend myself and others God asks me to defend or protect by reminding me my strength comes from the Beloved.
That the Gurdwara is filled with symbolism is actually what makes me want to be on my own. I find the symbolism in Gurdwaras a detraction from Creator. The rituals, the photos, the elaborate Matha Tekking, the Ardass filled with pointless requests, the langar, I guess its a good sunday out for most people, but not for me.Symbolism can be beautiful. I am blessed to be amongst those in the gurdwara on Sundays via livestream. The gurdwara is filled with symbolism, but it also makes that energy of reverence for the Truth so beautiful.
Nope, I find nothing heart warming about looking at random bearded men, another distraction from Creator.An image of the guru might be symbolic for you, but for some it warms the heart to see an image of Guru Nanak or the other gurus.
We are not arguing Bhenji, you are stating your truth, I am stating mine.Sufis say there are 3 sides to every argument. The opinion of the two people arguing and the Truth. The symbols mean quite a bit to some Sikhs and, for others, it doesn't. But to be part of a religion which is rich in symbolism, I hope you will honor those of us who are helped in our journeys by the richness of symbolism in religion.