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Guru Sahib, Kalika And Bhagauti - PART 1

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by kaur-1, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. kaur-1

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    Jul 10, 2006
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    Guru Sahib, Kalika and Bhagauti - PART 1

    Wednesday 30th of August 2006
    Bijla Singh

    In this article, I will attempt to clear some of the points that organizations such as the RSS have brought forward. Though most Sikhs who have knowledge of our glorious history and enlightening Bani can easily refute the points made by the RSS, however others who are new to Sikhi might become disillusioned upon hearing the parchar of the RSS.

    Two points that are commonly brought forward by the RSS will be countered using Gurbani and Sikh history. The two points, which this article will focus on, are, Guru Gobind Singh Ji worshipped Kalika Devi (Chandi Goddess) and the second being that he worshipped Bhagauti (Durga Goddess). I hope that the proofs, which will be provided in this article, will ensure that those who have limited knowledge of Gurbani and Sikh history will not fall prey to the parchar of nefarious organizations such as the RSS.

    The RSS makes the claim that while Sikhs say that Gurmat condemns the worship of gods and goddesses, Guru Gobind Singh Ji worshipped goddesses, the proof of this is contained in Bachittar Natak.

    ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ ॥2॥
    "Mahakal Kalika Aradhi"

    In addition, it appears that the Guru wrote Chandi Charitar in praise of goddess Chandi and has described the importance of its recitation, e.g.

    ਜਾਹਿ ਨਮਿਤ ਪੜ੍ਹੈ ਸੁਨਹੈ ਨਰ, ਸੋ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਦਈ ਹੈ ॥232॥ (ਚੰਡੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਉਕਤਿ ਪਾ: 10)
    ਫੇਰ ਨ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਇਆ ਜਿਨ ਏਹ ਗਾਇਆ ॥55॥ (ਵਾਰ ਚੰਡੀ ਪਾ: 10)

    The RSS has purposely or accidentally over looked the message of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, which is contained in the Dasam Granth.

    ਨਮੋ ਪਰਮ ਗਿਆਤਾ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਲੋਕ ਮਾਤਾ ॥52॥

    Salutation to Thee O Supreme Knower Lord! Salutation to Thee O Universal Mother Lord! ||52||
    In the above quotation, Kalika does not mean anything different from Eternal. To dispel all the doubts we show the condemnation of the worship of goddess in these six statements.

    a) Guru Gobind Singh Ji has ordained the Sikhs:

    ਬਿਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨ ਕਿਰਤਮ ਮਾਨੋ ॥
    Except Waheguru (God), do not accept anyone as the ruler and controller of the world.
    Moreover, it is written in the Var (ode) of Chandi:

    ਤੈਂ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਾਸ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
    O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.

    It proves that there is a Creator of Durga and she is His Creature. Is it possible that the Guru counsels his Sikhs one thing and he himself does the totally opposite? It is not possible.

    b) Guru Sahib makes this supplication and promise:

    ਤੁਮਹਿ ਛਾਡਿ ਕੋਈ ਅਵਰ ਨ ਧਯਾਊਂ ॥ ਜੋ ਬਰ ਚਹੋਂ ਸੁ ਤੁਮ ਤੇ ਪਾਊਂ ॥
    I may remember none else except Thee; and obtain all the required boons from Thee. (Chaupai Sahib)

    ਇਕ ਬਿਨ ਦੂਸਰ ਸੋ ਨ ਚਿਨਾਰ ॥
    Do not accept anyone except God as God. (Shabad Hazaray)

    ਭਜੋਂ ਸੁ ਏਕ ਨਾਮਯੰ ॥ ਜੁ ਕਾਮ ਸਰਬ ਠਾਮਯੰ ॥
    I recite only the Name of the Lord, which is useful at all places. (Bachittar Natak)

    ਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਆਨ ਕੋ ਧਰੋਂ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮ ਆਨ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥38॥
    I do not meditate on anyone else, nor do I repeat the Name of anyone else. ||38|| (Bachittar Natak)

    From the above quotes, it is clear that Guru Sahib worshipped none other than one Supreme Creator. Is it possible that Guru Sahib acts against his own promise?

    c) The author of a Granth writes the name of the deity he worships in the beginning of the Granth. There he writes the invocation. Scholars can tell which deity the author worships from the invocation.

    Guru Gobind Singh Ji has always used the invocation:

    ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
    One Eternal, True, accessible by the grace of the Guru.

    ੴ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ ॥
    One True Eternal, Victory to the Wonderful Lord.

    Then how can anyone conclude that Guru Sahib worshipped Durga? It simply never happened.

    d) Sikhs believe that the Ten Gurus were in reality One. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's ideas and objectives were the same as those of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. This is written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

    ਭਰਮੇ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ॥
    The angelic beings, goddesses and gods are deluded by doubt. (Ang 258)

    ਦੇਵੀਆ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨੈ ਮਰਮ ॥
    The goddesses do not know His mystery. (Ang 894)

    ਮਹਾ ਮਾਈ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਨਰ ਸੈ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥3॥
    ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ ॥4॥

    One who worships the Great Goddess Maya will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. ||3|| You are called the Primal Goddess. At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4|| (Ang 874)

    Then Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself says in the Akal Ustat:

    ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨ ਜਿਹ ਬਸਤ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥
    The goddess Durga takes refuge at the feet of Eternal and abides there.

    Guru Ji further says:

    ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਦਾਸੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅੰਧ ਅਗਿਆਨਾ ॥
    The blind, ignorant, self-willed manmukhs forsake their Lord and Master, and dwell on His slave Maya. (Ang 1138)

    Guru Angad Dev Ji describes the goddess as a sweeperess of the court of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Then how is it possible that a descendant of that tradition could go against the ideas of his ancestors and against his own writings and worship the goddess?

    e) It has been established that Guru Gobind Singh Ji only worshipped One Eternal Waheguru and taught His Sikhs to do the same. Now, let us look at the Shabad and analyze it some.

    The word ਕਾਲਕਾ does not refer to goddess Kalika but to the One Eternal Lord. The word in fact is a compound word, made up of two separate words.

    The first word is: ਕਾਲ - Death
    The second word is: ਕਾ - of

    This is not an attempt to break up words so Gurbani can be misinterpreted as in Guru Granth Sahib Ji the word ਕਾਲਿ has been used numerous times.

    ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕਾਟਿਆ ਭਉ ਕਾਲ ॥3॥

    Meditating, meditating in remembrance on the Lord, I am rid of the fear of death. ||3||

    ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨ ਭੇਟਿਓ ਸੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਵਸਿ ਕਾਲ ॥
    Those who have not met the Primal Being, the True Guru, are most unfortunate, and are subject to death.

    Therefore, the line in correct form would be: ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲ ਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ ॥2॥

    ਮਹਾਕਾਲ - Death
    ਕਾਲ ਕਾ - of death
    ਅਰਾਧੀ - worshipped

    This means that Guru Ji worshipped the One Supreme Power that is death of death. By reading the next lines, it becomes quite clear that these in fact are the correct meanings.

    ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਰਤ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਦ੍ਵੈ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਰੂਪ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਯੋ ॥

    In this way, my meditation reached its zenith and I became One with the Omnipotent Lord.

    It is a well-accepted belief in Sikhi as well as in Hinduism that a goddess is not Waheguru but His creation. If we assume that Guru Ji worshipped a goddess then we must admit that before Guru Ji started meditating there were three forms in existence: Lord (Waheguru), Goddess (Kalika) and Guru Ji himself. After a long period of meditation, He became one with Waheguru, which means three forms then became two.

    However, what Guru Ji says totally contradicts this baseless theory. He clearly states that there were only two in existence: Himself and Waheguru. After meditation, Guru Ji merged with the Light of the true Lord and thus became one with Him. Therefore, two became one. This proves that the worship of goddesses by Guru Sahib never happened. Not only are these stories a fabrication of the truth but also they are a grave misinterpretation of the message of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

    (Based on Hum Hindu Nahin by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha)

    To be continued...

    Source:Panthic Weekly: Guru Sahib, Kalika and Bhagauti - PART 1



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  3. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    Guru never wrote chandi di vaar or chandi charitters. Typical brainwashed bamans.
  4. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    ਜਾਹਿ ਨਮਿਤ ਪੜ੍ਹੈ ਸੁਨਹੈ ਨਰ, ਸੋ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਦਈ ਹੈ ॥232॥ (ਚੰਡੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਉਕਤਿ ਪਾ: 10)
    ਫੇਰ ਨ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਇਆ ਜਿਨ ਏਹ ਗਾਇਆ ॥55॥ (ਵਾਰ ਚੰਡੀ ਪਾ: 10)

    Why didn't the writer to aarth of these lines? Because they are anti-Gurmat?
    You don't oppose RSS by running around, you oppose them through truth.
  5. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    Criminal nihung and agent of RSS thereby writes a few words.

    only lines will not work.

    ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥
    स्वैया ॥

    ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋਂ ॥
    देह सिवा बरु मोहि इहै सुभ करमन ते कबहूं न टरों ॥
    O Goddess, grant me this that I may not hesitate from performing good actions.

    ਨ ਡਰੋਂ ਅਰਿ ਸੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਇ ਲਰੋਂ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕਰੋਂ ॥
    न डरों अरि सो जब जाइ लरों निसचै करि अपुनी जीत करों ॥
    I may not fear the enemy, when I go to fight and assuredly I may become victorious.

    ਅਰੁ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਂ ਆਪਨੇ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਕੌ ਇਹ ਲਾਲਚ ਹਉ ਗੁਨ ਤਉ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥
    अरु सिख हों आपने ही मन कौ इह लालच हउ गुन तउ उचरों ॥
    And I may give this instruction to my mind and have this tempotration that I may ever utter Thy Praises.

    ਜਬ ਆਵ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿ ਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋਂ ॥੨੩੧॥
    जब आव की अउध निदान बनै अति ही रन मै तब जूझ मरों ॥२३१॥
    When the end of my life comes, then I may die fighting in the battlefield.231.

    ਚੰਡਿ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਕਵਿਤਨ ਮੈ ਬਰਨਿਓ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਰਸ ਰੁਦ੍ਰਮਈ ਹੈ ॥
    चंडि चरित्र कवितन मै बरनिओ सभ ही रस रुद्रमई है ॥
    I have narrated this Chandi Charitra in poetry, which is all full of Rudra Rasa (sentiment of ragge).

    ਏਕ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਰਸਾਲ ਭਇਓ ਨਖ ਤੇ ਸਿਖ ਲਉ ਉਪਮਾ ਸੁ ਨਈ ਹੈ ॥
    एक ते एक रसाल भइओ नख ते सिख लउ उपमा सु नई है ॥
    The stanzas one and all, are beautifully composed, which contain new sillies from beginning to end.

    ਕਉਤਕ ਹੇਤ ਕਰੀ ਕਵਿ ਨੇ ਸਤਿਸਯ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਇਹ ਪੂਰੀ ਭਈ ਹੈ ॥
    कउतक हेत करी कवि ने सतिसय की कथा इह पूरी भई है ॥
    The poet hath composed it for the pleasure of his mind, and the discourse of seven hundred sholokas is completed here.

    ਜਾਹਿ ਨਮਿਤ ਪੜੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਹੈ ਨਰ ਸੋ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਦਈ ਹੈ ॥੨੩੨॥
    जाहि नमित पड़ै सुनि है नर सो निसचै करि ताहि दई है ॥२३२॥
    For whatever purpose a person ready it or listens to it, the hgoddess will assuredly grant him that.232.

    ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
    दोहरा ॥
    ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਤਿ ਸਇਆ ਕੋ ਕਰਿਓ ਜਾ ਸਮ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
    ग्रंथ सति सइआ को करिओ जा सम अवरु न कोइ ॥
    I have translated the book named Satsayya (a poem of seven hundred shalokas), which hath nothing equal to it.

    ਜਿਹ ਨਮਿਤ ਕਵਿ ਨੇ ਕਹਿਓ ਸੁ ਦੇਹ ਚੰਡਿਕਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੨੩੩॥
    जिह नमित कवि ने कहिओ सु देह चंडिका सोइ ॥२३३॥
    The purpose for which the poet hath comosed it, Chandi may grant him the same.233.

    but attribute of this Chandiaka are givne just at start.

    ੴ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ ॥
    ੴ वाहिगुरू जी की फतहि ॥
    The Lord is one and the Victory is of the Lord.

    ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਸਹਾਇ ॥
    स्री भगउती जी सहाइ ॥

    ਅਥ ਚੰਡੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਉਕਤਿ ਬਿਲਾਸ ਲਿਖਯਤੇ ॥
    अथ चंडी चरित्र उकति बिलास लिखयते ॥
    Now begin the extraordinary feats from the Life of Chandi:

    ਪਾਤਸਾਹੀ ੧੦
    पातसाही १०
    From the Holy Mouth of the Tenth King (Guru)


    ਆਦਿ ਅਪਾਰ ਅਲੇਖ ਅਨੰਤ ਅਕਾਲ ਅਭੇਖ ਅਲਖ ਅਨਾਸਾ ॥
    आदि अपार अलेख अनंत अकाल अभेख अलख अनासा ॥
    The Lord is Primal, Infinite, Account less, Boundless, Deathless, Garbless, Incomprehensible and Eternal.

    ਕੈ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤ ਦਏ ਸ੍ਰੁਤਿ ਚਾਰ ਰਜੋ ਤਮ ਸਤ ਤਿਹੂੰ ਪੁਰ ਬਾਸਾ ॥
    कै सिव सकत दए स्रुति चार रजो तम सत तिहूं पुर बासा ॥
    He created Shiva-Shakti, forur Vedas and three modes of maya and Pervades in three worlds.

    ਦਿਉਸ ਨਿਸਾ ਸਸਿ ਸੂਰ ਕੈ ਦੀਪਕ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਰਚੀ ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸਾ ॥
    दिउस निसा ससि सूर कै दीपक स्रिसटि रची पंच तत प्रकासा ॥
    He created day and night, the lamps of sun and moon and the whole world with five elements.

    ਬੈਰ ਬਢਾਇ ਲਰਾਇ ਸੁਰਾਸੁਰ ਆਪਹਿ ਦੇਖਤ ਬੈਠ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥੧॥
    बैर बढाइ लराइ सुरासुर आपहि देखत बैठ तमासा ॥१॥
    He extended enmity and fight between the gods and demons and Himself seated (on His Throne) scans it.1.
    ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
    दोहरा ॥

    ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਸਿੰਧ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜੋ ਕਛੁ ਮੋ ਪਰਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
    क्रिपा सिंध तुमरी क्रिपा जो कछु मो परि होइ ॥
    O Ocean of Mercy, if Thy Grace is bestowed upon me:

    ਰਚੋ ਚੰਡਿਕਾ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸੁਭ ਸਭ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
    रचो चंडिका की कथा बाणी सुभ सभ होइ ॥२॥
    I may compose the story of Chandika and my poetry be all good.2.

    ਜੋਤ ਜਗਮਗੈ ਜਗਤਿ ਮੈ ਚੰਡ ਚਮੁੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ ॥
    जोत जगमगै जगति मै चंड चमुंड प्रचंड ॥
    Thy light is shining in the world, O Powerful Chand-Chamunda!

    ਭੁਜ ਦੰਡਨ ਦੰਡਨਿ ਅਸੁਰ ਮੰਡਨ ਭੁਇ ਨਵ ਖੰਡ ॥੩॥
    भुज दंडन दंडनि असुर मंडन भुइ नव खंड ॥३॥
    Thou art the Punisher of the demons with Thy strong arms and art the Creator of the nine regions.3.

    ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥
    स्वैया ॥

    ਤਾਰਨ ਲੋਕ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੂਮਹਿ ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਚੰਡਿ ਤੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥
    तारन लोक उधारन भूमहि दैत संघारन चंडि तुही है ॥
    Thou art the same Chandika, who ferries across the people; Thou art the redeemer of the earth and destroyer of the demons.

    ਕਾਰਨ ਈਸ ਕਲਾ ਕਮਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਅਦ੍ਰਸੁਤਾ ਜਹ ਦੇਖੇ ਉਹੀ ਹੈ ॥
    कारन ईस कला कमला हरि अद्रसुता जह देखे उही है ॥
    Thou art the cause of the Shakti of Shiva, Lakshmi of Vishnu and Parvati, the daughter of Himavan, wherever we see, Thou art there.

    ਤਾਮਸਤਾ ਮਮਤਾ ਨਮਤਾ ਕਵਿਤਾ ਕਵਿ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਮਧਿ ਗੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥
    तामसता ममता नमता कविता कवि के मन मधि गुही है ॥
    Thou art Tams, the quality of morbidity, mineness and modesty; Thou art poetry, latent in the mind of the poet.

    ਕੀਨੋ ਹੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਲੋਹ ਜਗਤ੍ਰ ਮੈ ਪਾਰਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਜਾਇ ਛੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥੪॥
    कीनो है कंचन लोह जगत्र मै पारस मूरति जाइ छुही है ॥४॥
    Thou art the philosopher`s stone in the world, which transforms the iron into gold that it touches.4.

    So das thinks this doubt is over.

    what does Durga Path says.

    ਦੁਰਗਾ ਪਾਠ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਸਭੇ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ॥
    दुरगा पाठ बणाइआ सभे पउड़ीआं ॥
    All the Pauris (stanza) of this DURGA PATH (The text about the exploits of Durga) have been composed;

    ਫੇਰਿ ਨ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਇਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਇਹ ਗਾਇਆ ॥੫੫॥
    फेरि न जूनी आइआ जिनि इह गाइआ ॥५५॥
    And that person who sings it, will not take birth again.55.

    But how does it starts.

    And das will put the level of lower intellect of Bhag Singh @ Bhagmal of Ambala when he trys to misinterpret what is below.

    And mind it,it is stang that when Taksal trys to go against Sikh Rahit Maryada you are at there neck but what about your opposing the Ardas of Sikh Rahit Maryada.
    ੴ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥
    ੴ वाहिगुरू जी की फतह ॥
    The Lord is one and the Victory is of the Lord.

    ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਸਹਾਇ ॥
    स्री भगउती जी सहाइ ॥
    May SRI BHAGAUTI JI (The Sword) be Helpful.

    ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ ॥ ਪਾਤਸਾਹੀ ੧੦ ॥
    वार स्री भगउती जी की ॥ पातसाही १० ॥
    The Heroic Poem of Sri Bhagauti Ji (Goddess Durga). (By) Th Tenth Kingg (Guru).

    ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਈਂ ਧਿਆਇ ॥
    प्रिथम भगौती सिमरि कै गुरु नानक लईं धिआइ ॥
    In the beginning I remember Bhagauti, the Lord (Whose symbol is the sword and then I remember Guru Nanak.

    ਫਿਰ ਅੰਗਦ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਅਮਰਦਾਸੁ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੈ ਹੋਈਂ ਸਹਾਇ ॥
    फिर अंगद गुर ते अमरदासु रामदासै होईं सहाइ ॥
    Then I remember Guru Arjan, Guru Amar Das and Guru Ram Das, may they be helpful to me.

    ਅਰਜਨ ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨੋ ਸਿਮਰੌ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿਰਾਇ ॥
    अरजन हरिगोबिंद नो सिमरौ स्री हरिराइ ॥
    Then I remember Guru Arjan, Guru Hargobind and Guru Har Rai.

    ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਡਿਠੇ ਸਭਿ ਦੁਖਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
    स्री हरि किशन धिआईऐ जिस डिठे सभि दुखि जाइ ॥
    (After them) I remember Guru Har Kishan, by whose sight all the sufferings vanish.

    ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸਿਮਰਿਐ ਘਰ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਆਵੈ ਧਾਇ ॥
    तेग बहादर सिमरिऐ घर नउ निधि आवै धाइ ॥
    Then I do remember Guru Tegh Bahadur, though whose Grace the nine treasures come running to my house.

    ਸਭ ਥਾਈਂ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੧॥
    सभ थाईं होइ सहाइ ॥१॥
    May they be helpful to me everywhere.1.

    ਪਉੜੀ ॥
    पउड़ी ॥

    ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
    खंडा प्रिथमै साज कै जिन सभ सैसारु उपाइआ ॥
    At first the Lord created the double-edged sword and then He created the whole world.

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
    ब्रहमा बिसनु महेस साजि कुदरति दा खेलु रचाइ बणाइआ ॥
    He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and then created the play of Nature.

    ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮ੍ਹਾ ਗਗਨਿ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
    सिंधु परबत मेदनी बिनु थम्हा गगनि रहाइआ ॥
    He created the oceans, mountains and the earth made the sky stable without columns.

    ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
    सिरजे दानो देवते तिन अंदरि बादु रचाइआ ॥
    He created the demons and gods and caused strife between them.

    Also see some verse from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    Ang 224

    ਸਹਸਬਾਹੁ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟ ਮਹਿਖਾਸਾ
    सहसबाहु मधु कीट महिखासा ॥
    Sahasbāhu maḏẖ kīt mahikẖāsā.
    The Lord killed the thousand-armed Arjun, and the demons Madhu-keetab and Meh-khaasaa.

    ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਲੇ ਨਖਹੁ ਬਿਧਾਸਾ
    हरणाखसु ले नखहु बिधासा ॥
    Harṇākẖas lė nakẖahu biḏẖāsā.
    He seized Harnaakhash and tore him apart with his nails.

    ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਅਭਿਆਸਾ ॥੬॥
    दैत संघारे बिनु भगति अभिआसा ॥६॥
    Ḏaiṯ sangẖārė bin bẖagaṯ abẖi­āsā. ||6||
    The demons were slain; they did not practice devotional worship. ||6||

    ਜਰਾਸੰਧਿ ਕਾਲਜਮੁਨ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ
    जरासंधि कालजमुन संघारे ॥
    Jarāsanḏẖ kālajmun sangẖārė.
    The demons Jaraa-sandh and Kaal-jamun were destroyed.

    ਰਕਤਬੀਜੁ ਕਾਲੁਨੇਮੁ ਬਿਦਾਰੇ
    रकतबीजु कालुनेमु बिदारे ॥
    Rakaṯbīj kālunėm biḏārė.
    Rakat-beej and Kaal-naym were annihilated.

    ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਿ ਸੰਤ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥੭॥
    दैत संघारि संत निसतारे ॥७॥
    Ḏaiṯ sangẖār sanṯ nisṯārė. ||7||
    Slaying the demons, the Lord saved His Saints. ||7||
    Akal Bless.
    #4 vijaydeep Singh, Aug 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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  7. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    So Vijaydeep is back after 6 months eh. I see. How is the Gurbani Shabad even related to Chandi Chariter? Chandi Chariter says that there is no granth like:
    "I have translated the book named Satsayya (a poem of seven hundred shalokas), which hath nothing equal to it."

    Also God doesn't sleep. As for calling godess, Alakh, ajoon, etc. that is just godess worshipper hijacking God's attributes and giving them to his godess. God never goes to jung as God doesn't need to. God doesn't hate anyone as God doesn't have any enemies. Also, stop misquoting Gurbani. Post the whole set of Shabads and keep your posts short and to the point.
  8. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    And the translations you posted clearly asks godess for boon. You a Sikh of godess or Akaal? Pick one and make it clear.
  9. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    so here are the answer

    It is Sat Gaye and read the new version of Ambala's book.

    Sati with Anukarh meand propositiojn and Sat without Anukhr is differnt.

    Das hopes that one ****** Arya Samaji has been misguiding you and making you follow one of the Six Indian Philosophies as it is from Nayik Mat.

    Read and understand it as singin iof Truth with unsucessfully Bhag Singh has tried to realted with Durga Sapt Shati of Markandeya Purana.

    No one tried to verfy if there is a differance between what is there in Durga Sapsati and what Tenthg Master live.Blindly followed what Ambala or Kala Afghana write.

    In fact mnay times when these guys are called for a debate.They do not come.They only give or gave there names to writing of others.

    Read page 34 of new version of Ambala's book it is givne as per verse 232 as Satgay.

    While page 251 gives term SatSai as per Dr Jodh Singh version.

    Satsai means 700 or Sapt Sahti but also means sat(truth)sayy(Sa i) or (with it).

    So Sapshati is differnt as Amabal tried to post.

    As das gave the start of all the works you have doubted,we find glory ot Akal is given.So all demons killing is done by Akal.Shiva(feminie attribute of with high esteem),Durga(Castle in feminen Attribute) and Chandika(force) are attribute of Akal.

    Vers4e from Guru Granth Sahib tells Akal killing Mahishasur and RaktBeej.

    Good is everywhere.So in wars/jungs.God does all.Feeling of having enmies in you is not your but of God.If you have hate in you that hate also is by God and of God.

    When you sleep it is God only sleeps vide you.

    It is the otherway round.We are telling that acts of Devis are not of Devi but our Akal works in all.

    Page 657, Line 10
    ਨਾਮੇ ਕੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੀਅ ਬਹੋਰੀ ਲੰਕ ਭਭੀਖਣ ਆਪਿਓ ਹੋ ॥੪॥੨॥नामे के सुआमी सीअ बहोरी लंक भभीखण आपिओ हो ॥४॥२॥Nāmė kė su­āmī sī­a bahorī lank bẖabẖīkẖaṇ āpi­o ho. ||4||2||Naam Dayv's Lord Master brought Sita back, and gave Sri Lanka to Bhabheekhan. ||4||2||Devotee Namdev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    So should that means that person who makes fun of limted Rama of Pandit is trying to steal attribute of Akal for Rama?

    Guru was one with Akal and read verse 7 of 14th Chapter of Vachitar Natak.

    In Durga Sapsai we are told varuois means to worship devi.We are not told over here.So das thinks doubt is clear.

    blessing ask from Akal.And we are Sikh of Akal.

    ਪੰਨਾ 1408, ਸਤਰ 4
    ਅਮਿਉ ਰਸਨਾ ਬਦਨਿ ਬਰ ਦਾਤਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰ ਗੁਰ ਸੂਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਨਿਵਾਰ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ॥अमिउ रसना बदनि बर दाति अलख अपार गुर सूर सबदि हउमै निवार्यउ ॥Ami­o rasnā baḏan bar ḏāṯ alakẖ apār gur sūr sabaḏ ha­umai nirvār­ya­o.Nectar drips from Your tongue, and Your mouth gives Blessings, O Incomprehensible and Infinite Spiritual Hero. O Guru, the Word of Your Shabad eradicates egotism.ਭਟ ਕਲ-ਸਹਾਰ - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Can not you read term Bar over here.

    ਪੰਨਾ 21, ਸਤਰ 4ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥जह देखा तह रवि रहे सिव सकती का मेलु ॥Jah ḏėkẖā ṯah rav rahė siv sakṯī kā mėl.Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter.ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    ਪੰਨਾ 1037, ਸਤਰ 3ਹੁਕਮੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਖੇਲ ਖੇਲਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੧॥हुकमे सिव सकती घरि वासा हुकमे खेल खेलाइदा ॥११॥Hukmė siv sakṯī gẖar vāsā hukmė kẖėl kẖėlā­iḏā. ||11||By His Hukam, one dwells in the house of matter and energy - Shiva and Shakti. By His Hukam, He plays His plays. ||11||ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    ਪੰਨਾ 1090, ਸਤਰ 1ਦੋਵੈ ਤਰਫਾ ਉਪਾਈਓਨੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਕਤਿ ਸਿਵ ਵਾਸਾ ॥दोवै तरफा उपाईओनु विचि सकति सिव वासा ॥Ḏovai ṯarfā opā­ī­on vicẖ sakaṯ siv vāsā.He created both sides; Shiva dwells within Shakti (the soul dwells within the material universe).ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    ਪੰਨਾ 1096, ਸਤਰ 10ਹਾਠਾ ਦੋਵੈ ਕੀਤੀਓ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਵਰਤਾਈਆ ॥हाठा दोवै कीतीओ सिव सकति वरताईआ ॥Hāṯẖā ḏovai kīṯī­o siv sakaṯ varṯā­ī­ā.You created both sides, spirit and matter, Shiva and Shakti.ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    ਪੰਨਾ 1150, ਸਤਰ 15ਆਪੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਸੰਜੋਗੀ ॥आपे सिव सकती संजोगी ॥Āpė siv sakṯī sanjogī.He is the Uniter of Shiva and Shakti - mind and matter.ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    This is for those who follow logic but for devotees who only see Akal.

    Truth is

    ਪੰਨਾ 1036, ਸਤਰ 4ਭਾਉ ਨ ਭਗਤੀ ਨਾ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ॥भाउ न भगती ना सिव सकती ॥Bẖā­o na bẖagṯī nā siv sakṯī.There was no love or devotion, no Shiva or Shakti - no energy or matter.ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Here read is for was.

    Bhai all is Akal

    ਪੰਨਾ 89, ਸਤਰ 15ਹਰਿ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਹਿ ਕੋਇ ॥हरि जलि थलि महीअलि भरपूरि दूजा नाहि कोइ ॥Har jal thal mahī­al bẖarpūr ḏūjā nāhi ko­ė.The Lord pervades and permeates the water, the land and the sky; there is no other at all.ਮਃ 4 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    no different Durga

    ਪੰਨਾ 133, ਸਤਰ 2ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਏਕੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰੇ ॥੪॥घटि घटि एकु वरतदा जलि थलि महीअलि पूरे ॥४॥Gẖat gẖat ėk varaṯḏā jal thal mahī­al pūrė. ||4||In each and every heart, the One Lord is pervading. He is totally permeating the water, the land, and the sky. ||4||ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    ਪੰਨਾ 319, ਸਤਰ 15ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਣਿਆ ॥जलि थलि महीअलि पूरिआ घटि घटि हरि भणिआ ॥Jal thal mahī­al pūri­ā gẖat gẖat har bẖaṇi­ā.He is totally pervading the water, the land and the sky; the Lord is said to be permeating each and every heart.ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    ਪੰਨਾ 458, ਸਤਰ 17ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਕੀਟ ਹਸਤਿ ਸਮਾਨਿਆ ॥जलि थलि महीअलि पूरि पूरन कीट हसति समानिआ ॥Jal thal mahī­al pūr pūran kīt hasaṯ samāni­ā.The Lord is permeating and pervading the water, the land and the sky; He is contained in the ant and the elephant.ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    ਪੰਨਾ 521, ਸਤਰ 17ਰਾਮੁ ਰਮਹੁ ਬਡਭਾਗੀਹੋ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਸੋਇ ॥रामु रमहु बडभागीहो जलि थलि महीअलि सोइ ॥Rām ramhu badbẖāgīho jal thal mahī­al so­ė.Contemplate the Lord, O very fortunate ones; He is pervading in the water, the land and the sky.ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    ਪੰਨਾ 545, ਸਤਰ 11ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਏਕੁ ਰਵਿਆ ਨਹ ਦੂਜਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਾਇਆ ॥जलि थलि महीअलि एकु रविआ नह दूजा द्रिसटाइआ ॥Jal thal mahī­al ėk ravi­ā nah ḏūjā ḏaristā­i­ā.The One Lord permeates the water, the land and the sky - I do not see any other.ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    So works of Chandi or Durga in body are not of the bodies as body is only the attributes.

    As God is in all so never in one womb.

    Page 45, Line 8ਇਕੋ ਭਾਈ ਮਿਤੁ ਇਕੁ ਇਕੋ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ॥इको भाई मितु इकु इको मात पिता ॥Iko bẖā­ī miṯ ik iko māṯ piṯā.The One is my Brother, the One is my Friend. The One is my Mother and Father.
    Guru Arjan Dev -
    view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
    ਪੰਨਾ 407, ਸਤਰ 6ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਭਾਈ ਬਾਪੁ ਮੋਰੋ ਮਾਈ ਭਗਤਨ ਕਾ ਓਲ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ॥੨॥प्रीतमु भाई बापु मोरो माई भगतन का ओल्हा ॥२॥Parīṯam bẖā­ī bāp moro mā­ī bẖagṯan kā olĥā. ||2||He is my Beloved, my brother, father and mother; He is the Support of His devotees. ||2||ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    so often when Guru talks as my mother it is not the physical mother but Akal Purakh address as female as Mother.

    ਪੰਨਾ 350, ਸਤਰ 4ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਰਸਨਾ ਆਪੇ ਬਸਨਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਹਉ ਮਾਈ ॥੧॥तूं आपे रसना आपे बसना अवरु न दूजा कहउ माई ॥१॥Ŧūʼn āpė rasnā āpė basnā avar na ḏūjā kaha­o mā­ī. ||1||You Yourself are the tongue, and You Yourself are the nose. Do not speak of any other, O my mother. ||1||ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    ਪੰਨਾ 391, ਸਤਰ 8ਤਿਸ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਲਉ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥तिस कै संगि मिलउ मेरी माई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥Ŧis kai sang mila­o mėrī mā­ī. ||1|| rahā­o.In her company, I may meet Him, O my mother. ||1||Pause||ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Das could give more references.

    So again das makes it clear.

    As Akal is in all and all is Akal.So acts of Durga are not of any devi as no devi exists but only Akal exists.In demons and in Angels.in foes and in friends.
    In lovers and in haters.

    ਪੰਨਾ 2, ਸਤਰ 6ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵੈ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ॥੪॥नानक एवै जाणीऐ सभु आपे सचिआरु ॥४॥Nānak ėvai jāṇī­ai sabẖ āpė sacẖiār. ||4||O Nanak, know this well: the True One Himself is All. ||4||ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Laslty seeker of boom is also not any human or Sikh but Akal only and giver is the same.
  10. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    Your aarth of Naamdev quote is wrong. Try again. Also the story of Chandi Charitter has nothing to do with truth. It is just useless and a waste. What Gurmat gyan do you get from it? Tell me. What do you get from it? Also, stop jumping over the quotes you posted yourself. You posted the one with 700 verses and not you can changing to your own aarth when that got refuted. Post one aarth and not change aarth as needed. This isn't the way of the wise. Clever tricks aren't going to work. Guru Sahib says to praise the Karta and not the creation. You are praising the creation. Your issue. There are shabads saying to praise the karta and not the creation so you can find them too and post for all of us to read. You are going back to ancient philosophy of worshipping everything.
  11. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    Das request you to go to gurugranthdarpan.com and have look and read the Arths as per proff Sahib Singh Ji.

    Even if evil tricks of evil agent of RSS makes you to read and understand Gurbani clearly then evil das finds great mercy of Master.

    quotes from verse unto Bhagat Namdev Ji are cleaeryl telling that only Akal did all what is attributed to Lord Rama of Hindus.So where is interpetaion is wrong?

    from the verse of regarding Durga or Chandi you have ask what we get?

    We after being one with Akal no need to get anything.But they clearly tell those guys who worship or try to tell us to worhip thier demigodess that in truth all power of demigodess is Akal and she is false in appearnace while true is one who is in all.Thats why in start clarification is given(this is anbyway part of Vaichitar Natak and starts of it also explains)So das hopes that you have understod.

    Das is not in postion to play trick and all this slander and unwise things unto das.DAS THANKS YOU FOR THAT.
    Coming to creation and creator.Gurmat does not belives in semtic things of God making universe nor does what Bhagmals former faith use to think(Bhag Singh Ji were ex Arya Samaji and they belived in God making creation with 5 elements read Sadhu Dayanand Nal Mera Samwad).

    As per us God is in all and manifest self in all.

    Das praises all acts of manifestations of Akal as Akal only does all.Das did gave verse to supprt that.

    Do not in Rahiras Sahib we say.You by self the creator and all that happens is your doing.

    ਪੰਨਾ 12, ਸਤਰ 1
    ਤੂ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੀਆ ਸਭੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
    तू आपे करता तेरा कीआ सभु होइ ॥
    Ŧū āpė karṯā ṯėrā kī­ā sabẖ ho­ė.
    You Yourself are the Creator. Everything that happens is by Your Doing.
    ਮਃ 4 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Then brother when you ask us to worship.

    If all is Akal then who are we to worship even Akal.

    ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    गउड़ी महला ५ ॥
    Ga­oṛī mehlā 5.
    Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

    ਐਸੋ ਪਰਚਉ ਪਾਇਓ
    ऐसो परचउ पाइओ ॥
    Aiso parcẖa­o pā­i­o.
    I am intimate with Him;

    ਕਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਦਇਆਲ ਬੀਠੁਲੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਝਹਿ ਬਤਾਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    करी क्रिपा दइआल बीठुलै सतिगुर मुझहि बताइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Karī kirpā ḏa­i­āl bīṯẖulė saṯgur mujẖeh baṯā­i­o. ||1|| rahā­o.
    granting His Grace, my Kind Beloved has told me of the True Guru. ||1||Pause||

    ਜਤ ਕਤ ਦੇਖਉ ਤਤ ਤਤ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੁ ਬਿਸੁਆਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਆਇਓ
    जत कत देखउ तत तत तुम ही मोहि इहु बिसुआसु होइ आइओ ॥
    Jaṯ kaṯ ḏėkẖ­a­u ṯaṯ ṯaṯ ṯum hī mohi ih bisu­ās ho­ė ā­i­o.
    Wherever I look, there You are; I am totally convinced of this.

    ਕੈ ਪਹਿ ਕਰਉ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਜਉ ਸੁਨਤੋ ਹੈ ਰਘੁਰਾਇਓ ॥੧॥
    कै पहि करउ अरदासि बेनती जउ सुनतो है रघुराइओ ॥१॥
    Kai peh kara­o arḏās bėnṯī ja­o sunṯo hai ragẖurā­i­o. ||1||
    Unto whom should I pray? The Lord Himself hears all. ||1||

    ਲਹਿਓ ਸਹਸਾ ਬੰਧਨ ਗੁਰਿ ਤੋਰੇ ਤਾਂ ਸਦਾ ਸਹਜ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਓ
    लहिओ सहसा बंधन गुरि तोरे तां सदा सहज सुखु पाइओ ॥
    Lahi­o sahsā banḏẖan gur ṯorė ṯāʼn saḏā sahj sukẖ pā­i­o.
    My anxiety is over. The Guru has cut away my bonds, and I have found eternal peace.

    ਹੋਣਾ ਸਾ ਸੋਈ ਫੁਨਿ ਹੋਸੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਕਹਾ ਦਿਖਾਇਓ ॥੨॥
    होणा सा सोई फुनि होसी सुखु दुखु कहा दिखाइओ ॥२॥
    Hoṇā sā so­ī fun hosī sukẖ ḏukẖ kahā ḏikẖā­i­o. ||2||
    Whatever shall be, shall be in the end; so where can pain and pleasure be seen? ||2||

    ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ਕਾ ਏਕੋ ਠਾਣਾ ਗੁਰਿ ਪਰਦਾ ਖੋਲਿ ਦਿਖਾਇਓ
    खंड ब्रहमंड का एको ठाणा गुरि परदा खोलि दिखाइओ ॥
    Kẖand barahmand kā ėko ṯẖāṇā gur parḏā kẖol ḏikẖā­i­o.
    The continents and the solar systems rest in the support of the One Lord. The Guru has removed the veil of illusion, and shown this to me.

    ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਇਕ ਠਾਈ ਤਉ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕੈਠੈ ਜਾਇਓ ॥੩॥
    नउ निधि नामु निधानु इक ठाई तउ बाहरि कैठै जाइओ ॥३॥
    Na­o niḏẖ nām niḏẖān ik ṯẖā­ī ṯa­o bāhar kaiṯẖai jā­i­o. ||3||
    The nine treasures of the wealth of the Name of the Lord are in that one place. Where else should we go? ||3||

    ਏਕੈ ਕਨਿਕ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਤਿ ਸਾਜੀ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਕਾਰ ਰਚਾਇਓ
    एकै कनिक अनिक भाति साजी बहु परकार रचाइओ ॥
    Ėkai kanik anik bẖāṯ sājī baho parkār racẖā­i­o.
    The same gold is fashioned into various articles; just so, the Lord has made the many patterns of the creation.

    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਰਮੁ ਗੁਰਿ ਖੋਈ ਹੈ ਇਵ ਤਤੈ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਾਇਓ ॥੪॥੨॥੧੨੩॥
    कहु नानक भरमु गुरि खोई है इव ततै ततु मिलाइओ ॥४॥२॥१२३॥
    Kaho Nānak bẖaram gur kẖo­ī hai iv ṯaṯai ṯaṯ milā­i­o. ||4||2||123||
    Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt; in this way, my essence merges into God's essence. ||4||2||123||

    Location of universe is Akal and only Akal.
    ang 351

    ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ
    आसा महला १ ॥
    Āsā mehlā 1.
    Aasaa, First Mehl:

    ਮੈ ਗੁਣ ਗਲਾ ਕੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਭਾਰ
    मै गुण गला के सिरि भार ॥
    Mai guṇ galā kė sir bẖār.
    My virtue is that I carry the load of my words upon my head.

    ਗਲੀ ਗਲਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ
    गली गला सिरजणहार ॥
    Galī galā sirjaṇhār.
    The real words are the Words of the Creator Lord.

    ਖਾਣਾ ਪੀਣਾ ਹਸਣਾ ਬਾਦਿ
    खाणा पीणा हसणा बादि ॥
    Kẖāṇā pīṇā hasṇā bāḏ.
    How useless are eating, drinking and laughing,

    ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਆਵਹਿ ਯਾਦਿ ॥੧॥
    जब लगु रिदै न आवहि यादि ॥१॥
    Jab lag riḏai na āvahi yāḏ. ||1||
    if the Lord is not cherished in the heart! ||1||

    ਤਉ ਪਰਵਾਹ ਕੇਹੀ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਜੈ
    तउ परवाह केही किआ कीजै ॥
    Ŧa­o parvāh kėhī ki­ā kījai.
    Why should someone care for anything else,

    ਜਨਮਿ ਜਨਮਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਲੀਜੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    जनमि जनमि किछु लीजी लीजै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Janam janam kicẖẖ lījī lījai. ||1|| rahā­o.
    if throughout his life, he gathers in that which is truly worth gathering? ||1||Pause||

    ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਮਤਾਗਲੁ ਮਤਾ
    मन की मति मतागलु मता ॥
    Man kī maṯ maṯāgal maṯā.
    The intellect of the mind is like a drunken elephant.

    ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਖਤੋ ਖਤਾ
    जो किछु बोलीऐ सभु खतो खता ॥
    Jo kicẖẖ bolī­ai sabẖ kẖaṯo kẖaṯā.
    Whatever one utters is totally false, the most false of the false.

    ਕਿਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਲੈ ਕੀਚੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ
    किआ मुहु लै कीचै अरदासि ॥
    Ki­ā muhu lai kīcẖai arḏās.
    So what face should we put on to offer our prayer,

    ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਦੁਇ ਸਾਖੀ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੨॥
    पापु पुंनु दुइ साखी पासि ॥२॥
    Pāp punn ḏu­ė sākẖī pās. ||2||
    when both virtue and vice are close at hand as witnesses? ||2||

    ਜੈਸਾ ਤੂੰ ਕਰਹਿ ਤੈਸਾ ਕੋ ਹੋਇ
    जैसा तूं करहि तैसा को होइ ॥
    Jaisā ṯūʼn karahi ṯaisā ko ho­ė.
    As You make us, so we become.

    ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ
    तुझ बिनु दूजा नाही कोइ ॥
    Ŧujẖ bin ḏūjā nāhī ko­ė.
    Without You, there is no other at all.

    ਜੇਹੀ ਤੂੰ ਮਤਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਤੇਹੀ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ
    जेही तूं मति देहि तेही को पावै ॥
    Jėhī ṯūʼn maṯ ḏeh ṯėhī ko pāvai.
    As is the understanding which You bestow, so do we receive.

    ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਚਲਾਵੈ ॥੩॥
    तुधु आपे भावै तिवै चलावै ॥३॥
    Ŧuḏẖ āpė bẖāvai ṯivai cẖalāvai. ||3||
    As it pleases Your Will, so do You lead us. ||3||

    ਰਾਗ ਰਤਨ ਪਰੀਆ ਪਰਵਾਰ
    राग रतन परीआ परवार ॥
    Rāg raṯan parī­ā parvār.
    The divine crystalline harmonies, their consorts, and their celestial families -

    ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਪਜੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰ
    तिसु विचि उपजै अम्रितु सार ॥
    Ŧis vicẖ upjai amriṯ sār.
    from them, the essence of Ambrosial Nectar is produced.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਤੇ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਧਨੁ ਮਾਲੁ
    नानक करते का इहु धनु मालु ॥
    Nānak karṯė kā ih ḏẖan māl.
    O Nanak, this is the wealth and property of the Creator Lord.

    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਏਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੯॥
    जे को बूझै एहु बीचारु ॥४॥९॥
    Jė ko būjẖai ėhu bīcẖār. ||4||9||
    If only this essential reality were understood! ||4||9||

    ਪੰਨਾ 1125, ਸਤਰ 5
    ਕਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕੀਚੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥੨॥
    किसु आगै कीचै अरदासि ॥२॥
    Kis āgai kīcẖai arḏās. ||2||
    Unto whom should I offer my prayer? ||2||
    ਮਃ 1 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]ਪੰਨਾ 1420, ਸਤਰ 11
    ਵਿਣੁ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਕਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕੀਚੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥
    विणु बोलिआ सभु किछु जाणदा किसु आगै कीचै अरदासि ॥
    viṇ boli­ā sabẖ kicẖẖ jāṇḏā kis āgai kīcẖai arḏās.
    He knows everything, without being told; unto whom should we offer our prayers?
    ਮਃ 3 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    at least read the whole verse.DAS DOES NOT THINKS THAT he has any hidden agenda to absorbe you into hinduism when das tells you to read Guru Granth Sahib Ji.Akal Bless.
    #10 vijaydeep Singh, Aug 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  12. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    When I am talking about aarth being wrong. I was talking about the following.
    ਨਾਮੇ ਕੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੀਅ ਬਹੋਰੀ ਲੰਕ ਭਭੀਖਣ ਆਪਿਓ ਹੋ ॥੪॥੨॥नामे के सुआमी सीअ बहोरी लंक भभीखण आपिओ हो ॥४॥२॥Nāmė kė su­āmī sī­a bahorī lank bẖabẖīkẖaṇ āpi­o ho. ||4||2||Naam Dayv's Lord Master brought Sita back, and gave Sri Lanka to Bhabheekhan. ||4||2||Devotee Namdev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Prof. Sahib Singh is wrong in many places too. He did aarth at a high speed so mistakes were possible on hard SHabads. That is one of them. It looks like it is talking about Seeta but it is not. Also, I won't post correct aarth. Keep thinking or find out yourself.

    So what if God is in everything. It doesn't everything is right. Same way, bachitter natak isn't right. Bachitter natak is wrong from historical and gurmat perspectives. Bibek budhee and Gurmat Gyan is needed to understand that. Someone who doesn't even know how to aarth bani won't know about those points.

    God of Sikhs doesn't have 4 arms. You can take Mahakaal to your house and worship him. We don't need Mahakaal. We need Satnaam. Not manmatnaam. Until the person doesn't understand Satnam, person can't diffrentiate between what is good and what is bad. Akaal Purakh is in everything but everything isn't Gurmat. Gurmat is about SatNaam. Bachitter Natak is falsehood. Bachitter Natak doesn't even make sense. The person doesn't even know what he is talking about. Maybe the writer took too much bhung. As for the quotes you posted. Copy pasting unrelated tuks isn't hard. Anyone can do that.
  13. singh is king

    singh is king Australia
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    May 13, 2007
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  14. singh is king

    singh is king Australia
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    May 13, 2007
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    Sirji, I think Guru Gobind Singh ji authorised only and only one granth i.e. SGGS. What you think word "Ram" in SGGS is ayodhya "Rama"? Could you please enlightened me about Ram and God?
  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    BHAGAUTI (J. S. Neki, Giani Balwant Singh) or Bhavani (Skt. Bhagavati, consort of Visnu, or the goddess Durga) has had in Sikh usage a chequered semantic history. In early Sikhism, especially in the compositions comprising the Guru Granth Sahib, the word means a bhakta or devotee of God. “So bhagauti jo bhagvantai janai; he alone is a true devotee who knoweth the Lord” (GG, 88). In Bhai Gurdas, bhagauti has been used as an equivalent of sword. “Nau bhagauti lohu gharaia—iron (a lowly metal) when properly wrought becomes a (powerful) sword”(Varan, XXV. 6) It is in the compositions of Guru Gobind Singh contained in the Dasam Granth that the term began to assume connotations of wider significance. Reference may here be made especially to three poems by Guru Gobind Singh—Chandi Chritra Ukti Bilas and Chandi Chritra both in Braj and Var Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki, popularly called Chandi di Var in Punjabi—describing the exploits of the Hindu goddess (Bhagavati) Chandi or Durga. Each of these compositions is a free translation of “Sapt Sati (lit. seven hundred), meaning the epic comprising 700 slokas, chapter xiv, sub-sections 81-94, of the classical Markandeya Purana which describes the battle between the goddess and demons whom she vanquished to reinstall Indra, the king of gods, on his throne. The heroic odes in fact are among many pieces of Pauranic (mythological) literature that Guru Gobind Singh translated or got translated for the avowed purpose of instilling martial spirit among his Sikhs.

    The title of Var Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki, which has also been appropriated into Sikh ardas or supplicatory prayer, along with the first stanza runs as follows:
    Ik onkar sri vahiguru ji ki fateh
    God is one—To Him belongs the victory
    Sri bhagauti ji sahe

    May Sri Bhagauti Ji be always on our side
    Var Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki Patshahi 10
    The ode of Sri Bhagauti as sung by the Tenth Master.
    The opening line of the Ode reads:
    Pritham bhagauti simari kai gur nanak lain dhiai:
    First call up Bhagauti in your mind, then meditate on Guru Nanak.
    Here, the primacy accorded Sri Bhagauti Ji is obvious. This leads to the question why.
    Bhagauti is, it appears, a multifaceted archetypal symbol employed by Guru Gobind Singh to fulfill a multiplicity of functions simultaneously. He perhaps wanted to complement the exclusive masculinity of the Divine image. Until then, God had in Sikhism as in other major traditions by and large a masculine connotation. He had been called Purakh implying masculinity. Although, at times, He had been addressed as mata (mother) as well as pita (father), almost all the names employed for him in Sikh Scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib—Ram, Govind, Hari, Shiv, Allah, etc.—were only masculine names. To widen the conception Guru Gobind Singh may have chosen Bhagauti, a name with a clear feminine implication. It is significant that in the entire Hindu pantheon the warrior Bhagavati, or Durga, is the only goddess without a male spouse, thus symbolizing female independence, strength and valour. This derives further support from Guru Gobind Singh’s autobiographical Bachitra Natak wherein he designated God by a composite name Mahakal-Kalika (Mahakal which is masculine is juxtaposed to Kalika which is feminine). More specifically, what is really meant by Bhagauti (or its synonym Bhavani) is made clear in the following verse of Guru Gobind Singh:
    Soi bhavani nam kahai

    Jin sagri eh srishti upai
    The One who created this universe entire,
    Came to be known as Bhavani
    --Chaubis Autar
    Notwithstanding the fact that names of the deities from many diverse sources occur in the Sikh text, here they mix naturally shedding, after acculturation in the new religious and theological environs, their original nuances and proclaiming one and one identity alone, i.e. God the Singular Being. All other meanings and shades are subsumed into One Indivisible entity. The names Hari (originally Visnu), Keshav (also an epithet of Visnu—one with long hair), Damodar (Krsna who had a rope tied around his belly), Murli Manohar (also Krsna, master of the melodious flute), Raghupati (Rama, the Lord of Raghu dynasty), etc., all came to signify in the Sikh vortex the unitary Godhead. The same applied to Bhagauti.
    Says Guru Gobind Singh in the second stanza of this poem, Var Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki, the following about Bhagauti:
    Taihi durga saji kai daita da nasu karaia:
    It was you who created Durga to destroy the demons.
    The line establishes beyond ambiguity the contextual meaning of bhagauti. Durga could not be presumed to have created Durga. She like all other gods and goddesses was indeed created by God Almighty.
    The nomenclature seems to have been employed to smoothen the gender distinctions when referring to God.
    The second archetypal significance of Bhagauti is linked to its other lexical meaning ‘sword’ as exemplified by Bhai Gurdas. Bhagauti where prefixed with the honorific sri (lid. fortunate, graceful) signifies the ‘Divine Sword’ –the Power that brings about the evolution and devolution of the Universe.
    In this kaleidoscopic universe, its Creator is immanent not in any static way. He is in all times and at all places dynamically protecting the good and destroying the evil (Sant ubaran, dusht uparan). “Everywhere through the great perplexed universe, we can see the flashing of ‘His Sword’! . . . and that must mean His nature uttering itself in His Own Form of forces (Phillip Brooks). That Sri Bhagauti, the Divine Sword, symbolizes Divine Power is further borne out in the Ode itself when about Bhagauti it is said:
    Khanda prithmai saji kai jin sabh sasaru upaia

    Brahma bisan mahes saji kudrati da khelu rachai banaia
    Sindh parbat medani binu thamma gagani rahaia
    Creating first the Power of Destruction, who brought forth the whole universe,
    Who raised the trinity of the gods, and spread the game of nature,
    The Ocean, the mountains, the earth and the firmament without support who
    shaped. . .
    The invocation to the Almighty through His image as the ‘Divine Sword’ as employed by Guru Gobind Singh purported again to instill the heroic spirit among his Sikhs, for:
    Jeha sevai teho hovai

    You become like the one you adore.
    (GG. 549)
    Here a question arises: What is the special significance of remembering God with the name of a weapon? God is Pure Existence (sat), Absolute Essence (nam). Existence-Essence (sat-nam) is His primordial, archetypal, designation (GG, 1083). Whatsoever else is said to designate Him can only be symbolic. Though God is infinite, these symbols can only be finite. While the infinite includes the finite, it also transcends it. That is why every such symbol is not only affirmed by the symbolized but also negated at the same time. In the Sikh mystic lore, the prime symbol employed for God is the Word (nam). However, the other, even more structured symbol that Guru Gobind Singh introduced is the “the Sword’ (Bhagauti). One might here ask: can a fragment of the finite symbolize infinite? The answer can be given in the affirmative for God being Pure Existence is immanent in everything that exists. Hence symbolization of God through a finite symbol ‘Sword’ is not only possible, but also, in a sense, true because it serves to symbolize Divine Power. Every mystic symbol is bipolar. On the one end it is in contact with the Infinite, at the other in contact with the finite. That is how it succeeds in fulfilling the symbolic function. Bhagauti is one such symbol as it is in its symbolic meaning of Divine Power, in contact with the Infinite, and in its concrete form, as a weapon, in contact with the finite. Guru Gobind Singh has consecrated not only the sword, but in fact a whole spectrum of weaponry:
    As kirpan khando kharag tupak tabar aru tir

    Saif sarohi saihthi, yahai hamarai pir:
    The sword, the sabre, the scimitar, the axe, the musket, the shaft.
    The rapier, the dagger, the spear: these indeed are our saints.
    Remembering God through such heroic symbols was the exclusive style of Guru Gobind Singh.
    Already in gurbani, the theistic symbol of the Nigam (Vedic) tradition had been monotheized. Guru Gobind Singh chose to monotheize even the theistic symbols of the Agam (Brahmanic) tradition. Thus his was a process of the integration of the two great mystical traditions of India.
    Finally, the word bhagauti stands for God or His devotee on the one hand (signifying piri), for the sword on the other (signifying miri). This integration of piri and miri in Bhagauti encapsulates another major dimension of Sikh thought.

    J. S. N.

    G. B. S.
  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    1947-2014 (Archived)
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    Jun 17, 2004
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    Begum ji,

    You have introduced some excellent reading to round out the other discussion on the thread. Informative and educational.

    Did you use other authors do develop the essay? When you put in references, it helps a lot and i appreciate that.
  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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  18. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    Das will put Bani from Guru Granth Sahib Ji regarding something correct or incoorect.

    What so ever happen is by god and God is never incoorect.

    Jo Tudh Bave Sai Bhali Kar To Sada Salamat Nirankar.

    then coming to four Arms.

    ਪੰਨਾ 324, ਸਤਰ 13
    ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    चतुराई न चतुरभुजु पाईऐ ॥ रहाउ ॥
    Cẖaṯurā­ī na cẖaṯurbẖuj pā­ī­ai. Rahā­o.
    Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||
    ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    so Bhagat Kabir Ji were in correct like Prof Sahib Singh Ji?

    Kala Afghana and his bands of people are only correct.

    coming to Guruship of Adi Guru Darbar.

    why did not Tenth Master wrote within it only that It only is our Guru?

    in it Bani is Guru and if Bani is proven to be of Tenth Master then it was to be our guide.

    Rama is in us and so was with in son of Dasaratha.That is in all.Akal bless.
    #17 vijaydeep Singh, Nov 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  19. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    one more qoute from bani onto Fifth Master as many followers of Kala Afghana Sahib are now started to attack Bhatt and Bhagat Bani with the same logic as your self are using.

    Das will not pray for yourself dear.nor will he tell you learn Guru Granth Sahib Ji first and understand them beofre making a cooment of Dasham Granth Sahib.

    Das will only thank God for what all is happening.
    ਪੰਨਾ 1082, ਸਤਰ 16
    ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥
    धारि खेलु चतुरभुजु कहाइआ ॥
    Ḏẖār kẖėl cẖaṯurbẖuj kahā­i­ā.
    He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.
    गुरू अरजन देव जी - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
    #18 vijaydeep Singh, Nov 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  20. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    I know the above shabad, it is satnaam paraa poorbalaa one. It needs proper translations. A lalli shaali like you isn't going to be able to do it. All you can do is copy paste hard shabads and try to brahmanify sikhi.
  21. Archived_Member1

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    gone to greener pastures
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    Apr 4, 2007
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    you mean there isn't a kala afghana translation available for you to check for reference?

    please do share your vast knowledge with us poor learners ji... i know many here will apreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to teach us.
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