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Gurbani Vyakaran (Viyakaran, Vayakaran, Viakaran) - Punjabi Grammar
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<blockquote data-quote="Ambarsaria" data-source="post: 176183" data-attributes="member: 14194"><p>Luckysingh ji there is no need to shadow dance in this thread. Name me if you have to for my indiscretions.<span style="color: Blue"><em>Couple of points of note.</em><em> The whole storm of blinding ignorant dust was started by Serjindersingh ji stating,</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em></em></span><span style="color: Blue"><em>Tomorrow someone will say you know some shabads alienate Hindus or Muslims. Oh OK let us take them out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. </em></span><span style="color: Blue"><em>You think our Guru ji cared or we need to defend what they preached. They preached what they believed and that is the foundation of Sikhism. </em></span><span style="color: Blue"><em><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><em><span style="color: blue">Sikhism is not Hinduism or Islam and it is independent built on wisdom of all Guru ji and of numerous martyrs/shaheeds.[/FONT]</span></em><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Sikhism is a thorn in the azz of Hinduism and Islam because Sikhism does not believe in what these do/did to people in the street or what they practice/practiced in terms of connecting with the creator/God or in living in consonance with creation and all with equality.</em></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>Let us go on to your other thesis in the excerpts above. There are <u>statements to prove</u> that a given shabad has many other language words. Who denies that there are words of other languages adopted into Punjabi or within the usage in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji adapts these in the context of Punjabi and these are understandable in the context of the shabad without much fanfare about the language these originate from. The effort to prove by sundry shabads a point about the use of Farsi (Persian) is just as mute. It has been well recognized by Prof. Sahib Singh ji who did more than just count words in Shabads, he gives expositions and meanings of these for all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with all words of lesser familiarity in common Punjabi usage.</em></span><em><span style="color: Blue"></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue"></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue">The famous Shabad from Serjindersingh ji's post with so called Hindi perponderance,</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue"></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--></span></em><em><span style="color: Blue"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->Here the shabad with Farsi preponderance,</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue"></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--></span></em><em><span style="color: Blue"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Luckysingh ji the life is much simpler but it is unnaturally made complicated. </span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue"></span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue">Quite simply, let us ask ourselves what language one would like to learn to read and understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji if one had a choice of one language?</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue"></span></em></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>Hints to self,<br /> </em></span><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>It is not Hindi</em></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>It is not Sanskrit</em></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>It is not Farsi</em></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>It is not English</em></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>It is not Arabic</em></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>It is not French</em></span></li> </ul> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><span style="color: Blue">Oh my God/creator, I be damned if I said it is Punjabi</span><br /> </em></li> </ul><p><em><strong>In closing,</strong> </em>I respect the stated expertise Serjindersingh ji claims and I do not claim to judge him or have such capabilities or desire. I do believe he is knowledgeable and puts in effort to be specific. These are wonderful qualities.</p><p></p><p>I wish and requested that he use his knowledge to elaborate his understanding of Shabdas, one or two or as many including all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or specific bani, say Sukhmani Sahib. Better still say a bani collection in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with preponderance of Farsi words. I believe he can do it wonderfully and I hope we work in that direction as all of us would benefit.</p><p></p><p>Sat Sri Akal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ambarsaria, post: 176183, member: 14194"] Luckysingh ji there is no need to shadow dance in this thread. Name me if you have to for my indiscretions.[COLOR=Blue][I]Couple of points of note.[/I][I] The whole storm of blinding ignorant dust was started by Serjindersingh ji stating, [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][I]Tomorrow someone will say you know some shabads alienate Hindus or Muslims. Oh OK let us take them out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][I]You think our Guru ji cared or we need to defend what they preached. They preached what they believed and that is the foundation of Sikhism. [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=Blue][I]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->[I][COLOR=blue]Sikhism is not Hinduism or Islam and it is independent built on wisdom of all Guru ji and of numerous martyrs/shaheeds.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Sikhism is a thorn in the azz of Hinduism and Islam because Sikhism does not believe in what these do/did to people in the street or what they practice/practiced in terms of connecting with the creator/God or in living in consonance with creation and all with equality.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Let us go on to your other thesis in the excerpts above. There are [U]statements to prove[/U] that a given shabad has many other language words. Who denies that there are words of other languages adopted into Punjabi or within the usage in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji adapts these in the context of Punjabi and these are understandable in the context of the shabad without much fanfare about the language these originate from. The effort to prove by sundry shabads a point about the use of Farsi (Persian) is just as mute. It has been well recognized by Prof. Sahib Singh ji who did more than just count words in Shabads, he gives expositions and meanings of these for all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with all words of lesser familiarity in common Punjabi usage.[/I][/COLOR][I][COLOR=Blue] The famous Shabad from Serjindersingh ji's post with so called Hindi perponderance, [/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=Blue]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=Blue]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->Here the shabad with Farsi preponderance, [/COLOR][/I] [I][COLOR=Blue]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=Blue]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Luckysingh ji the life is much simpler but it is unnaturally made complicated. Quite simply, let us ask ourselves what language one would like to learn to read and understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji if one had a choice of one language? [/COLOR][/I] [LIST] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]Hints to self, [/I][/COLOR] [LIST] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]It is not Hindi[/I][/COLOR] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]It is not Sanskrit[/I][/COLOR] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]It is not Farsi[/I][/COLOR] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]It is not English[/I][/COLOR] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]It is not Arabic[/I][/COLOR] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]It is not French[/I][/COLOR] [/LIST] [*][I][COLOR=Blue]Oh my God/creator, I be damned if I said it is Punjabi[/COLOR] [/I] [/LIST] [I][B]In closing,[/B] [/I]I respect the stated expertise Serjindersingh ji claims and I do not claim to judge him or have such capabilities or desire. I do believe he is knowledgeable and puts in effort to be specific. These are wonderful qualities. I wish and requested that he use his knowledge to elaborate his understanding of Shabdas, one or two or as many including all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or specific bani, say Sukhmani Sahib. Better still say a bani collection in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with preponderance of Farsi words. I believe he can do it wonderfully and I hope we work in that direction as all of us would benefit. Sat Sri Akal. [/QUOTE]
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Gurbani Vyakaran (Viyakaran, Vayakaran, Viakaran) - Punjabi Grammar
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