Explain This In Dasam Granth

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Das understands to clarify one more thing over here.

Das does not consider Ten Masters or Scriputre alone Guru.Term Guru often is used by Das as term Refering To Akal.

so when das says that Guru does all evil and can wrtie evil.It may mean that as we say that Gurbani is word of God(as das finds faith more revealed faith like other semtic faiths) so as we See in Japu Ji Sahib themselves,that evil acts of evil people are done by God only.so we say that as Akal lives in evil so Akal only done evil(which is apprantly evil to us) or Akal only does what we may feel as evil.So Akal can describe that.

That may look contray to previous explantion given by das but that could be an explantion that Akal guided Tenth Master to write like that.As Tenth Master says in vachitar Natak that I will not give my name but your name.so Shyam,Ram,Gobind or Mahakla often refered as poet may say that Poet is God as name given before are more names of Akal only rather atributes of Akal.

Das will like to ahve more input and will try to further filter or imporve the explantion.Das is just saying that correct explantion can be obtained as many Dasham Granth opposers by know also oppse Bhagat Bani and Bhatt Bani of Darbar Sahib.(refer spokesman dec 2005).

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Max314 Ji!

Quote "In Dasam Granth we find it written by the Grace of God. In human beings we find it happening by the Grace of God. Answer: Really? Where? How? Why?"
Please read the first post of this string. I am referring to this.

Quote "Have any of the Sikkh Gurus - our honorable and precious patrons - told us that this volume, which was compiled and editted from multiple and sometimes contradictory sources after the death of the Tenth Master, was to be reverred as a holy text?"
Have any of the Sikh Gurus told us to call any text, unholy?

Quote "Why do we not adorn God with strange titles? Answer: Because they're unnecessary."
May I ask why those are necessary for the Guru' writings and fellow human beings?

Quote "Yeah, but I'm not going to let my eight year old son read a passage that says: "{censored} was put in the {censored}". And neither will you."
Do not worry. He knows it already. God has given him birth with all His Wisdom.

Quote "You're talking about blind faith again. Who are 'enlightened people' and who are not 'enlightened people'?"
One knows it or he has faith in it. The enlightened one knows it.

Quote "But what proof do you have to say that this even is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's writing?"
Enlightened people are aware. They watch how lust of Maya even seduces kings. I do not know who has proof that Guru Gobind Singh did not know about it?

Quote "Again, that's all lovely jubbley, but why would you use "words of sexual terminology" when young children are going to be listening?"
Ask yourself why many people use this terminology in presence of their children. And why do all use this terminology to have children?
It is God's greatness that children love to talk about it between friends and not with their parents. Imagine they loose this respect one day. These are parents who are grown sick and want to manipulate children with something what they could not in their life.

Quote "There we go again with the 'enlightened people'..."
Please feel so sorry that God listens and your prayers become true to meet one.

Quote "Doing naam is like sex. How could I have missed it?"
Perhaps one needs to receive true Naam yet.
All, whose ego is doing it, miss it.
All, with whom God does it, are in joy of never ending ecstasy.

Quote "I presume you don't go parading naked through the street, due to "standardised shame". Perhaps you should "transcend" that and become a nudist who believes that "our bodies are from God...release your standardised shame!"

God and I are naked. No veil is between us. I surprise what human beings are hiding behind a pseudo curtain (ego).

God wants to make love with you too. Please drop your woven material (ego).

Love.


Balbir Singh

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Sri Dasam Granth sahib Ji is also Truth's exaltation being expressed through Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Only those can realize this, who have received once the sip of Naam Amrit by God's Grace. For others this angooree is perhaps sour, what to say about those who feel it is bitter.
Truth also in sugar has a taste. Anybody can taste it. The expression of it in words through Jeeves may appear different though. Has someone ever come across a person explaining bitterness of sugar? Can he convince us that sugar is not sweet? Still, some people try it. I feel they better seek sugar instead criticizing it.

**************

Some Jeeves produce and spit poison whole life in fear, hate or anger. It does not matter what they eat.
Do not trust them.

**************

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji is the unique treasure for humankind. One Gem of it can decorate anybody's crown sitting on a throne by truth.
I feel pity for those who suffer in poverty being so near to this treasure.


Balbir Singh

 

[manbir]

Gurfateh

Respected S Manbeer Singh Ji,

There are two ways to communicate with illitrates.

1.Use thier language and custom and then teach them our via thier own vocabulary.
2.Just bring some of thier people in us and let him remain with us and then send him as a missioanry in illitrates peoples.

Before Tenth Master 2nd way was used.But as we know that Masands were getting out of control.So to let them have direct contact with us so they were to be tremed Khalsa(as per moghuls Khalsa means who pays text dierctly to King and with not interdemetray).Guru did used thier langauge to let them fight the wrongly made devine upper castes.

And in Sufis also such text is used from Ishq E Majaji(worldy love) to Ishq E Haqiqi(Godly/Truth oriened love).Love developed for Khalqat(creation) switchs over to Devine(Khaliq) as devine is in Khalqat.

But in Triya Charitars more the ways it was used is similar to what so called Progressive or left wong people write text to arise have not against exploiters.

as they are 405 and das is sure that yourself have read Vol 10 of Vipran Ki Reet to Sach da Marg or Dasham Granth Nirnai so such kind of mind set develops.

in the text mentioned above We first make person very afraid and then try to let that person move as we want that person to move.

so read it again and that also after understanding the language ie Braj or Bhojpuri.and why often High caste are targeted.There are instance of lower caste also say Barber but whay Barber?Barber is the one who cuts the hairs.

Das requests you to bring out parts which are deemed as not OK and das will give the whole stroy related to it as often part is given and whole story is not explained.

Anyway das has not become pervert,but did find many pervert things in Kala Afghana Sahib's work.

Respected Vijaydeep Singh Ji

I must tell you that I am not a least satisfied by all this. All that you have said is beyond my comprehension. Your logic is beyond my understanding.

Manbir Singh

 

[harsimiritkaur]

Dohra Before Hukamnama[/FONT]​

dohrw​

​

AwigAw BeI Akwl jI, qbI clwXo pMQ
sB is`Kin ko hukm hY gurU mwinE gRMQ
gurU gRMQ jI mwinE pRgt gurW kI dyh
jo pRB ko imlbo chY Koj Sbd mˆY lyh
rwj krygw ^wlsw AwkI rhY n koie
KÍwr hoie siB imlˆYgy bcY Srn jo hoie
vwihgurU nwm jhiz hY cVHy so auqrY pwr
jo SrDw kr syˆvdy gur pwir auqwrnhwr

 

[harsimiritkaur]

Do people read that dohra and substitute Guru Granth Ji Manyo with Dasam Granth Ji Manyo when they read Dasam Granth?

 

[Archived_member2]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all!

Quote "Do people read that dohra and substitute Guru Granth Ji Manyo with Dasam Granth Ji Manyo when they read Dasam Granth?"
No.
All, I know, revere Sri Dasam Granth Ji, honoring the throne of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji everywhere, also in heart and mind.

In my observation, not one action is happening in a being according to his will, what to say about other persons including reading of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. By reading or singing a poem one does not receive Satgur. The poem mentioned here starting with 'aagya bha-ee akaal kee . . .' is anyway not from Gurdev. Reading while comprehending Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji is more desirable for many than reading poems from others.

Those, who found Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji great, may please mention any part of it to have a Satsang.
Those who could not understand His Hymns please ask for explanation with references here or in a new thread.


Balbir Singh

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Do people read that dohra and substitute Guru Granth Ji Manyo with Dasam Granth Ji Manyo when they read Dasam Granth?

Daer Sister,

Over here das would like to say that Guru Granth Ji Manyo Dohar is not from Guru Granth Sahib Ji so can this be authantic only it is from Gyani gyan Singh ji work and that also not correct as das knows and respected Gyani Sahib Ji will elabrotate that actual Dohara also talks of Guru ship to Panth so Panj Piaras give us Baptism as Guru.


anyway Sabad Guru or Guru Granth sahib Ji are real Guru since first Master.Concpt of living Guru does not exists as in other faith and First Master belived in Guruship of Guru Granth Sahib Ji even before he left for Sachkhand(sse Sau Sakhi and Sarbloh Granth).

so our Prophit is scripture say our Jesus is Guru Granth Sahib JI.But Dasham Granth is more like book say Bible for us.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Respected Vijaydeep Singh Ji

I must tell you that I am not a least satisfied by all this. All that you have said is beyond my comprehension. Your logic is beyond my understanding.

Manbir Singh

Respected Manbir Singh Ji,

If we read Farsi Verse in Darbar Sahib Yak az Guftam Dar Prsh Tu...

Or verses in Farsi,we find that we are realy Missioary or preaching Faith.

But after Sixth Master we also talked of Miri Piri or Faith over politics and Sixth Master fought wars but were more to defend.

But in the case of Tenth Master concept of Sant Sipahi came.A Warir Saint.That person can also use sword in order to prevent forcefull stopping in preaching.

Guru took preemptive steps in war like War in Nadaun or Sending Sahibzad to rescue women from wrong people of Hoshiyarpur or say Sending help to Bahdur Sha uunder the command of Bhai Daya Singh Ji or as per Prof Sahib Singh Ji going to Deccan to preach Gurmat to Marthi guys and enroute to Rajputana people(which das thinks).

figthing people may not be decent speaking.First we have to talk to them and then later can make them decent but in was decency does not work.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Dear vijay deep singh ji,
Gurfateh.

In DG..Guur Ji is supposed to have used many many "names"...shyam raam etc..while ALL the Previous Gurus used ONLY NANAK...none other.

BUT when "Guru jis SIKHS"...use "multiple IDs" on FORUMS..this raises a STINK and howls of protest ?? Yes ?? No ?? Now why DO Forum Moderators and Readers HATE these "multiple IDS" Posters..BUT support their "GURU" who uses the same "trick". Why are SIKHS who follow their GURU..or try to emulate Him..BAD ?? Just go to any SIKH Forum.. ( Tapoban org is no EXCEPTION) and you will find people protesting about soem one "using a different ID"..blah blah blah ?? is an ID more important than the "article"..is the "gurbani" more important than the "poet's name" ??..this is a rhetorical question..you are under no obligaton to reply..as you are NOT a Moderator of any forum and neither have you written about multiple IDs but just speaking my mind on this funny behaviour....
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[max314]

Gurfateh

Das will try to elaborate the same thing as das finds that das was a bit unable to clarify that to Bhai Max Ji.


S. Manbir Singh kji are docter and will agree to this thing.when a lower caste person,who is deprived from deucation for ages by upper caste comes and tells aboput UTI or STD vocabulary is differnt from upper caste educated person.


Das agrres that Guru ended castes.But what about those who were still lving in slavery by upper castes Hindus.Guru had to let meaasge go to them also.

Say in Guru Granth Sahib Ji language Farsi is used to preach faith in Farsi speaking people.In the same way Guru used language easly understandable by lower castes.

Even in Darbar Sahib there are terms which point towards intercourse say term Bind is refeered to Seman but in Dasham Granth more crude term Viraj or Ret is used.That is comprihended by those castes who were so far by upper caste been told that 'let molten lead be put in thier ear if they study say Vedas '.

some thing could to wriitan in compact fomr say 1to10 say in Darbar Sahib but in Dasham Granth sahib we are told 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.so more explantions are there.

Last thing about Anal sex if to be discuused in front of child or not.When das was young,he was told by his mother to stay away from grown up children as yuong boys are like girls.She could say in same way she is from hindu faith who are rigid and move on concealment.

But say in puly militray Background often our Commander do tell us mnay things realted to sex.Say elder one can say abuse also.Say when we have to go to fight say in kargill we will not say Mai Bhai be kind to vacte Kargill,We will call thier mothers and sisters.

and if we visit Ramgarh(Jharkhand Sikh Regimental Centre) or Fathegarh(UP SikhLi Regimenatal Centre).We need to see that how are young onre trained in Army and what abused are though to them in training.

As a formal inteligence personal from India das,also informs that say al Qaeda use to use Porn pictures,They had coded messages in them.Each action had some emaning.Say if girl removes upper cloaththat means attack from north and if she bring up skirt it may means penetrate from south.

The guys who were on securty duty,if they are very mcuh obbseed with sex will only enjoy but reciver will decode that.Same things other agency can use.So as we find all Triya Charitars were obtained from outside Anandpur Sahib,they were sent to villages arround in whole nation.

People from enemy side,who scrutinised may have thought that Guru can not write this and could have misguided and attracted in sex or such thing is text.And text reached recivers.Forces were made in country.

When Banda Was sent majority of his forces were from lower castes.

Das here mean lower caste as potential converts,After conversions they were same as Sikh.So more in the way of recuriting mannual and message to over throw upper caste Hindu or Muslim rulers.

Das is ready to provide more info.Das thinks that what we use today was used by Guru in past,Data encryption and with keys only know to recivers.Here key is Language used by recivers who are from lower castes.

as 405 Wroks are there,many have ,mnay reasons behind thier been sent.It was m omre a book perhaps called Sumat Prakash.More to do with Hindi poets so das may not give refreance to them.

Das is anywya thankful to yourself Bro Max and Respected S. Manbeer Singh Ji that they are ever ready to protect Panth from wrong things.Das trys to use a bit differnt way for the same.

Thank you very much for you time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem that the issues in your post can be divided into two main categories concerning the use of graphic sexual imagery in the Dassam Granth:

1. - Lower castes do not understand more complicated language use, due to lack of education.

2. - Sexual images should not be hidden from children.

----

In reference to point 1:

This is not an issue about using one word instead of another. This is about the Guru actively writing about explicit sexual actions. Was it really necessary to say that "{censored} was put in {censored}"? All one would have to say is something to the effect of: "they engaged in acts of lust". It doesn't matter how uneducated you are, everyone can understand that.

In reference to point 2:

Sexual images must be hidden from children in order to protect them. There is no reason on earth why young children should be exposed to such explicit sexual material. It will affect them mentally to picture the scene of "{censored} was put in {censored}". There is no possible way in which this can be justified, and I defy you to produce such a reason.

----

It still seems to me, I'm afraid, that the Dassam Granth is either in part or in whole not the writing of our beloved Master. It promotes Hindu-esque values, and its authorship is very much suspect. The fact that this text is being promoted by right-wing Hindu groups like the RSS is only further evidence of that, in my opinion.

 

[Akashdeep Singh]

Thank you very much for you time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem that the issues in your post can be divided into two main categories concerning the use of graphic sexual imagery in the Dassam Granth:

1. - Lower castes do not understand more complicated language use, due to lack of education.

2. - Sexual images should not be hidden from children.

----

In reference to point 1:

This is not an issue about using one word instead of another. This is about the Guru actively writing about explicit sexual actions. Was it really necessary to say that "{censored} was put in {censored}"? All one would have to say is something to the effect of: "they engaged in acts of lust". It doesn't matter how uneducated you are, everyone can understand that.

In reference to point 2:

Sexual images must be hidden from children in order to protect them. There is no reason on earth why young children should be exposed to such explicit sexual material. It will affect them mentally to picture the scene of "{censored} was put in {censored}". There is no possible way in which this can be justified, and I defy you to produce such a reason.

----

It still seems to me, I'm afraid, that the Dassam Granth is either in part or in whole not the writing of our beloved Master. It promotes Hindu-esque values, and its authorship is very much suspect. The fact that this text is being promoted by right-wing Hindu groups like the RSS is only further evidence of that, in my opinion.

Ditto !!!!,

Yours truly also does not see any point in the reasoning that sexually explicit language was written by Guru ji to explain things to lower caste people....This is useless reasoning!......and an insult to Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Why I say useless? - because starting from Guru Nanak Dev ji, most of the work in our Guru Granth Sahib is targetted at commoners, lower caste people, those who could not read higher class languages. Guru Nanak Dev ji specially used the language of the common people so that he can reach them all. That is why Guru Nanak Dev ji did not write their words in pure Sanskrit. Guru Nanak dev ji specially spoke some sanskrit words in distorted forms, just like they were spoken by common people. For example, "bho" which is actually "bhai" sanskrit.

Now think, did Guru Nanak Dev ji or other gurus after them use sexually explicit language like the one written at some places in Dasam Granth?

Guru Granth Sahib ji was already in the language of the common people at that time. What good can be done by having an addendum filled with such language that children cannot read? Did Guru ji wanted to keep childern away from Sikhism. Do the people who believe that Dasam Granth is Guru Gobind Singh ji's writing also believe that Guru ji did not have the brain to understand what effect the language like "putting {censored} in the {censored}" will have on the children? .......Oh god!! stop this insult to Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Anybody who has even the slightest knowledge of Guru Granth Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh ji will never say that whole part of Dasam Granth is guru ji's own writing. Sometimes I feel, I shouldn't even be discussing this as this is totally useless discussion, but then due to my love for Guru Gobind Singh ji I feel pained when his own Sikhs bring insult to him and cannot stop commenting.

Somebody adulterated Dasam Granth for a purpose, I see that purpose getting solved with the Sikhs blindly believing that Dasam Granth was Guru Ji's writing.

Hey Sachey Paatshah!!.....give me some patience to bear this insult to you.

Sat Shri Akaal,
-Akashdeep

"Human beings are supposed to be intelligent species. They see or read something and then contemplate on it. Without comtemplation humans will be like computers - garbage in, garbage out"




-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[ISDhillon]

That's debateable.

it sure is

Dude, he's talking about anal sex in this! Dirty mind or not, there are other ways to tell a story about lovemaking!

perhaps our idea of shame have been ingrained in our psyche but that does not mean the guru also should have this shame, why is anal sex dirty? this is your own belief the simple fact is that for the guru to say this then is soo much clearer today, anal sex is very much a part of the norm of lovemaking then why must we writie it out of our current trend, just cos you cant come to grips with the reality that in fact no body gives a toss whether your idea of anal sex are shameful or not, good honest people and perhaps even religious people enjoy anal sex accept it, its a reality.

Hindi films do it all the time by sticking a song in there, I'm sure that a poet as "par excellence" as Guru Gobind Singh Ji could find another way to express himself that would be condusive to the sangat!

you being sure is not a valid argument the fact is it exists you need to realise that the perceptions we have of our gurus are perhaps not the puratanical ones we are led to believe i believe they were down to earth, the contraversey around dasam granth has nothing to do with conspiracies its about the sikh communties failure to deal with a disease known as shame.:}--}:

Please don't take an appologists view, and please try and explain this to me as best you can. I'm seriously disturbed right now. As it stands, I refuse to believe that Guru Gobind authored at least this section of the Dassam Granth...

[/QUOTE]

thats fine you dont have to believe in dasam granth i dont see how it ever has formed a part of sikh rehit, if people install dasam granth then thats wrong there is a difference between guru granth and dasam granth, it is the word guru!!!.

have a nicey spicey day

Indy

 

[ISDhillon]

my mistake i am talking about the "dirty" compositions, i know that it is apart of nitnem.

 

[max314]

perhaps our idea of shame have been ingrained in our psyche but that does not mean the guru also should have this shame, why is anal sex dirty? this is your own belief the simple fact is that for the guru to say this then is soo much clearer today, anal sex is very much a part of the norm of lovemaking then why must we writie it out of our current trend, just cos you cant come to grips with the reality that in fact no body gives a toss whether your idea of anal sex are shameful or not, good honest people and perhaps even religious people enjoy anal sex accept it, its a reality.

Okay...

Listen...carefully:

I don't care if it's 'anal sex', 'doggy sex' or 'monkey sex'. I don't care if it's "a reality". I don't care if there are words about blokes hanging upside down from their lunds. Such poronographic images are simply not appropriate by any decent standards to be exposed to children.

you being sure is not a valid argument the fact is it exists you need to realise that the perceptions we have of our gurus are perhaps not the puratanical ones we are led to believe i believe they were down to earth, the contraversey around dasam granth has nothing to do with conspiracies its about the sikh communties failure to deal with a disease known as shame.:}--}:

I'm sorry, but that's a load of crap.

I tell you what: take off your clothes and parade naked down the street.

Go on.

Rectify your "failure to deal with a disease known as shame" :}{}{}:

 

[max314]

my mistake i am talking about the "dirty" compositions, i know that it is apart of nitnem.

I'm sorry, what?

 

[ISDhillon]

Okay...

Listen...carefully:

I don't care if it's 'anal sex', 'doggy sex' or 'monkey sex'. I don't care if it's "a reality". I don't care if there are words about blokes hanging upside down from their lunds. Such poronographic images are simply not appropriate by any decent standards to be exposed to children.

who is doing this to children?

I'm sorry, but that's a load of crap.

show how?

I tell you what: take off your clothes and parade naked down the street.

i might just do that do u wanna join me?

Go on.

Rectify your "failure to deal with a disease known as shame" :}{}{}:

wow great debate that!!!!

Indy

 

[ISDhillon]

I'm sorry, what?

your forgiven!

 

[ISDhillon]

Guru Granth Sahib ji was already in the language of the common people at that time. What good can be done by having an addendum filled with such language that children cannot read? Did Guru ji wanted to keep childern away from Sikhism. Do the people who believe that Dasam Granth is Guru Gobind Singh ji's writing also believe that Guru ji did not have the brain to understand what effect the language like "putting {censored} in the {censored}" will have on the children? .......Oh god!! stop this insult to Guru Gobind Singh ji.

this is interesting why the {censored} into the {censored} why not the {censored} into the vagina, what disasterous effects will sex education have on children?. Why do you apply youre own moral values onto your guru, youre guru can talk about things like this and still remain detached from them, all these arguments are pointless as you have said several times but not because they are shameful and therefore ultimately untrue, but because every case has a counterargue which cannot be stopped, why is it that i do not think the guru had a filthy mind, why is it i can accept this is the gurus writing, why is it that it i dont need debate endlessly about this subject , get life people what is everyone contributing?:crazy:

 

[navroopsingh]

Guru ji would never and did never write this. If you would believe your guru and the creator of the Khalsa to write something so perverted, i fail to undertand why you are even a Sikh. It is true that in the Hindu religion these types of things are common and my father once told me of a cave in India with explicit images and such and is a common tourist attraction which makes we wonder how far the brahmin have gone to filthy the religion that saved them from the Moghul Empire. It seems they are afraid of another religious group gaining power in India and will go to endless lengths to redirect our thinking and make us have so many internal problems that we do not realize all the things happening to us slowly from the outside. It seems that as long as religions are interpreted "properly" there can be no peace. If they fixed the Israel problem in the Middle East a lot of problems would be fixed. If they fixed the Hindu "problem" in India a lot of problems would be fixed!