Does Kaam Mean Lust Or Worldly Desires? Meaning Of Kaam As Per Gurmat

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichar' started by Dr Karminder Singh Dhillon, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Dr Karminder Singh Dhillon

    Dr Karminder Singh Dhillon Writer SPNer

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    ਰਸੁ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰਸੁ ਰੁਪਾ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਰਮਲ ਕੀ ਵਾਸੁ ॥
    Russ Soena Russ Ruppa Kaaman Russ Parmal Ki vaas

    Sikhs, on cue from our ragis and parcharaks, have translated Kaam as sex and lust. They further translate Kaaman as woman. Kaaman, after all is one who is “absorbed and imbued in Kaam.” With Kaam being translated as above; the woman is thus seen as the root and cause of Kaam.


    Does Gurbani support such a view? How is Kaam defined in Gurbani? What is the meaning of Kaaman as used in the SGGS ji?

    This article examines one Shabd of Guru Nanak ji to obtain answers to these questions. It is composed in Sri Raag and contained on page 15 of the SGGS ji. The complete Shabd is as follows.

    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Sri Raag Mehla 1.

    ਲਬੁ ਕੁਤਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਚੂਹੜਾ ਠਗਿ ਖਾਧਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ॥ Labb Kutta Koor Choohra Thugg Khadha Murdar.

    ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਮਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਧੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲੁ ॥ Par Ninda Parmal Mukh Sudhee Agan Krodh Chandaal.

    ਰਸ ਕਸ ਆਪੁ ਸਲਾਹਣਾ ਏ ਕਰਮ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ ੧ ॥ Russ Kuss Aaap Slahna E Karam Merey Kartar.

    ਬਾਬਾ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਊਤਮ ਸੇ ਦਰਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਨੀਚ ਕਰਮ ਬਹਿ ਰੋਇ ॥ ੧ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Baba Boleay Patt Hoey. Utam Sey Dar Utam Kaheah Neech Karam Beh Roye. Rahao.

    ਰਸੁ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰਸੁ ਰੁਪਾ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਰਮਲ ਕੀ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ Russ Soena Russ Ruppa Kaaman Russ Parmal Kee Vaas.

    ਰਸੁ ਘੋੜੇ ਰਸੁ ਸੇਜਾ ਮੰਦਰ ਰਸੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਰਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ॥ Russ Ghorey Russ Seyja Mandir Russ Meetha Russ Maas.

    ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਕੇ ਕੈ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ ੨ ॥ Etey Russ Sareer Kay Kaey Ghat Naam Niwas.

    ਜਿਤੁ ਬੋਲਿਐ ਪਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਸੋ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ Jit Boleay Patt Payeay So Boleya Parvan.

    ਫਿਕਾ ਬੋਲਿ ਵਿਗੁਚਣਾ ਸੁਣਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਮਨ ਅਜਾਣ ॥Fikka Bol Viguchna Sunn Murakh Mun Ajaan.

    ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਹਿ ਸੇ ਭਲੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਿ ਕਹਣ ਵਖਾਣ ॥ ੩ ॥ Jo Tis Bhavey Sey Bhaley Hor Key Kehn Vakhaan.

    ਤਿਨ ਮਤਿ ਤਿਨ ਪਤਿ ਤਿਨ ਧਨੁ ਪਲੈ ਜਿਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ Tin Mutt Tinn Patt Tinn Dhan Jinn Hirdey Raheya Samaye.

    ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਸਾਲਾਹਣਾ ਅਵਰ ਸੁਆਲਿਉ ਕਾਇ ॥ Tin Ka Kya Salahna Avar Sualeyo Kaye.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਬਾਹਰੇ ਰਾਚਹਿ ਦਾਨਿ ਨ ਨਾਇ ॥ ੪ ॥ Nanam Nadree Bahrey Rachey Daan Na Naye.

    UNDERSTANDING THE SHABD.

    Given that the central idea of the entire Shabd is contained within the Rahao Verse(s), we shall begin our quest towards understanding this shabd by examining the Rahao Verse couplet.

    ਬਾਬਾ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਊਤਮ ਸੇ ਦਰਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਨੀਚ ਕਰਮ ਬਹਿ ਰੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

    Baba Boleay Patt Hoey. Utam Sey Dar Utam Kaheah Neech Karam Beh Roye. Rahao.

    Baba – O Mind of mine. Boleay- Lit. Talk; Discourse. Patt – Lit. Dignified; Godly. Utam – Elevated. Sey Dar – Lit. that door; Journey towards Realization. Kaheay, – Is, Said to be. Neech – Lowly. Karam – Actions. Beh Roye – Idiomatic for Regret, Remorse, Shame. [Note: Lit. means Literal Meaning].

    O Mind, The Discourse of Spirituality is one of Godly Deeds. The Journey of Realization Entails Elevation to Godly Heights; But I Suffer Shame on Account of my Actions.

    Verse 1.

    ਲਬੁ ਕੁਤਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਚੂਹੜਾ ਠਗਿ ਖਾਧਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ॥ Labb Kutta Koor Choohra Thug Khadha Murdar.

    Labb – Greed. Kutta – Lit. Dog; Barking, Howling. Traits of Greed within the mind. Koor – Lit. Fakery; Absence of Godliness. Choohra – Lit. Low Caste; Lowest Rung. Thug – Cheat, Deceive. Khadha – Consumed; Grab Murdar – Lit. Carcass; Rightfully Belonging to Others.

    Constant Howling in Greed, Desire to Grab by Deceit the Rightful Possessions of Others and the Absence of Godliness have resulted in my mindset being Relegated to the Lowest Rung of Humanity

    Note: Koor in Gurbani is defined as the antonym (opposite) of Sach. Sach in Gurbani (From the Sanskrit words Sat and Satya) always refers to the Creator. So Koor is the state of “absence of the Creator” as in the Verse of Guru Nanak: ਨਾਨਕੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਤੁਧੁ ਬਾਝੁ ਕੂੜੋ ਕੂੜੁ ॥ ੧ ॥ Nanak Vekhaney Benti Tudh Baajh Kooro Koor. SGGS 468. Meaning: Koor of Koor comes to exist whence Your existence has been denied.

    Verse 2.

    ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਮਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਧੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲੁ ॥ Par Ninda Par Mal Mukh Sudhee Agan Krodh Chandaal.

    Par – Others. Ninda – Condemn. Mal – Lit. Dirt; Derogatory. Mukh – Speak. Sudhee – Complete, Forever. Agan – Fire, burning. Krodh – Anger. Chandaal – Demon

    The Demon of Anger Within Fans the Ever Burning Desire of Condemning and Speaking Derogatively of Others.

    Verse 3:

    ਰਸ ਕਸ ਆਪੁ ਸਲਾਹਣਾ ਏ ਕਰਮ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ ੧ ॥ Russ Kuss Aaap Slahna E Karam Merey Kartar.

    Russ Kuss – Indulgences. Aaap – Self. Slahna – Praise, Acclaim. E Karam – These Deeds Merey – Mine. Kartar – Creator.

    These then are the Indulgences and Self-Acclaimed Deeds of Mine, O Creator.

    Verse 4.

    ਰਸੁ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰਸੁ ਰੁਪਾ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਰਮਲ ਕੀ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ Russ Soena Russ Ruppa Kaman Russ Parmal Kee Vaas.

    Russ – Desire for the Essence. Indulgence. Penchant. Soena – Gold. Ruppa – Silver. Parmal – Fragrance. Vaas – (from Vaashna) Craving. Kaaman – Permeated in Desire; Imbued in Kaam, Defining of Kaam.

    My Desires, Indulgences and Cravings for Gold, Silver and Fragrances have made me Imbued in Desire; Defining my Kaam.


    Note 1: The Word ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman in the Vedic Scriptures refers to Woman. She is considered the embodiment and root of KAAM which is translated as lust and sex. Gurbani REJECTS the notion that woman is the embodiment or root of anything evil. Gurbani also rejects the view that Kaam is lust and sex.

    Note 2: Gurbani defines KAAM as desire for the ESSENCE (Russ) of anything material. Kaam is indulgence in worldliness at the very basic level. Verse 4 of the Shabd thus uses the word ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman as a descriptive adjective of a human being imbued in Kaam. In this sense of its usage then this verse is a definition of KAAM. Kaam is the desire, indulgence, penchant and cravings for all things material. ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman is a human being who is imbued in Kaam.

    It must be noted that material in itself is NOT critiqued by Gurbani. It is the unbridled desire for the ESSENCE of material that is Kaam – and hence critiqued as an impediment to spirituality.

    Note 3: In some instances, Gurbani uses the word ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman to denote the soul bride. This is so because when our gurus talk about union with the creator they depict seeker as a female. In the following verses, for instance, ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman as a Bride-Soul (Jeev-Istri) or a Seeker is depicted as a wife to her Creator-husband.

    ਮੈ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਕੰਤੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥SGGS 1128. Main Kaaman Mera Kant Kartaar. Meaning: I am a bride-soul of my Creator-husband.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਸਦਾ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਆਪਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥ SGGS 244. Nanak Kaaman Sda Rung Raati Har Jeo Aap Milae. Meaning: The Creator unites me as a bride imbued in His love.

    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਬਣਿਆ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ॥ SGGS 1277. Gurmukh Kaaman Banea Singaar. Meaning: The Guru’s wisdom (Gurbani) is my adornment as His Soul-bride (Seeker).



    Note 4: However, in the case of the Shabd under discussion above; the subject matter is focused on desires, indulgences and cravings for all things material. The usage of ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman in the CENTRE of this verse, makes clear three things:

    1. Gurbani considers KAAM as desire for the essence of anything material. Kaam is thus indulgence in worldliness at the very basic level.
    2. ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman is used as a descriptive adjective of a human being imbued in Kaam. In other words, ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman is a human being who is permeated in Kaam. In this sense of its usage then this verse is a definition of KAAM.
    3. ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman cannot be translated as “woman” in this verse or the “essence of woman”. Gurbani has no gender bias. Our Gurus would not denote Russ for woman only? Why not for man? Further, if we look at the structure of the verse there is no Russ mentioned for KAAMAN. There is ਰਸੁ ਸੁਇਨਾ Russ Soena. There is ਰਸੁ ਰੁਪਾ Russ Ruppa. And there is ਰਸੁ ਪਰਮਲ ਕੀ ਵਾਸੁ Russ Parmal Kee Vaas. There is NO ਰਸੁ ਕਾਮਣਿ Russ Kaaman. This means that ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman is used as an independent and standalone word in the verse. Its function is as an anchor word in the verse.
    4. The meaning of verse 4 therefore is “My Desires, Indulgences and Cravings for Gold, Silver and Fragrances (things material) have made me into a ਕਾਮਣਿ Kaaman – one that is Imbued in Kaam, and Filled with Desire for material, thus defining Kaam
    Verse 5

    ਰਸੁ ਘੋੜੇ ਰਸੁ ਸੇਜਾ ਮੰਦਰ ਰਸੁ ਮੀਠਾ ਰਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ॥

    Russ Ghorey Russ Seyja Mandir Russ Meetha Russ Maas.

    Ghorey – Lit. Horses; depiction of Travel. Seyja – Lit. Bedding; Comforts. Mandir – Dwellings. Meetha – Sweet. Maas – Lit. Meat; Palate, Tastes.

    I Possess Desires and Cravings for Dwellings and Comforts of Travel; and Indulge in Penchants of the Palate.



    Verse 6

    ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਕੇ ਕੈ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ ੨ ॥ Etey Russ Sareer Kay Kaey Ghat Naam Niwas.

    Etey – Abundant, Copious. Sareer Kay – Of the Body, Physical. Kaey Ghat – How within the Mind? Naam – Godly Virtues. Niwas – Reside

    So Abundant are my Physical Desires, Indulgence and Cravings; How then Will Godly Virtues Come to Reside Within my Mind.

    Verse 7.

    ਜਿਤੁ ਬੋਲਿਐ ਪਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਸੋ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ Jit Boleay Patt Payeay So Boleya Parvan.

    Jit – Which. Boleay – Discourse. Patt – Spiritual Dignity. Payeay – Earned, Realized. Parvan – Acceptable.

    The Acceptable Discourse (of Spirituality) is one that Brings About Spiritual Dignity.

    Verse 8

    ਫਿਕਾ ਬੋਲਿ ਵਿਗੁਚਣਾ ਸੁਣਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਮਨ ਅਜਾਣ ॥ Fikka Bol Viguchna Sunn Murakh Mun Ajaan

    Fikka – Devoid of Godly Essence; Absorbed in Worldly Essence. Bol – Discourse. Viguchna – Conduct. Sunn – Lit. Listen; Realize. Murakh– Self Centered. Mun – Mind. Ajaan – Unenlightened.

    Realize, O Self-Centered and Unenlightened Mind – Discourse and Conduct that is Absorbed in Worldly Essence is Devoid of Godly Essence.

    Verse 9

    ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਹਿ ਸੇ ਭਲੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਿ ਕਹਣ ਵਖਾਣ ॥ ੩ ॥ Jo Tis Bhavey Sey Bhaley Hor Kay Kehn Vakhaan.

    Jo – Those, That. Tis Bhavey – Acceptable to the Creator. Bhaley – Good; Hor – Other, Else. Kay –What use? Kehn Vakhaan – Empty Talk.

    That Which is Acceptable to the Creator is Good O Mind; of What Use is All Else if not Mere Empty Talk?

    Verse 10

    ਤਿਨ ਮਤਿ ਤਿਨ ਪਤਿ ਤਿਨ ਧਨੁ ਪਲੈ ਜਿਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ Tin Mutt Tinn Patt Tinn Dhan Jinn Hirdey Raheya Samaye

    Tin Mutt – Of the right Mindset. Tinn Patt – Of Spiritual Dignity. Tinn Dhan – Inner Wealth. Palley – Earned, Acquired, Possesses. Hirdey – Within; Mind. Raheya – Remain. Samaye – God Realized

    The God Realized Being Possesses the Correct Mindset, Earns Spiritual Dignity and Acquires Inner Wealth.

    Verse 11

    ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਸਾਲਾਹਣਾ ਅਵਰ ਸੁਆਲਿਉ ਕਾਇ ॥ Tin Ka Kya Salahna Avar Sualeyo Kaye.

    Tin Ka – Of Such (Realized Beings). Kya – What. Salahna –Offering of Praises. Avar – Other, Else. Sualeyo – Inner / Spiritual Beauty. Kaye – Who.

    What Praises Can Be Offered of Such Realized Beings; Who Else is of Higher Inner Beauty?

    Final Verse

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਬਾਹਰੇ ਰਾਚਹਿ ਦਾਨਿ ਨ ਨਾਇ ॥ ੪ ॥ Nanak Nadree Bahrey Rachey Daan Na Naye.

    Nadree – Blessings of the Creator. Bahrey – Devoid, Barren, Bereft. Rachey – Immersed. Daan – Gifts of Material, Worldliness. Naye – Godly Virtues.

    Nanak, To Remain Immersed in God Given Gifts (of Worldly Material) Instead of Godly Virtues is to Remain Barren of the Blessings of the Creator.

    CONCLUSIONS.
    1. Taking the Shabd of Guru Nanak in its entirety we get the understanding that Kaam refers to our inner desires for material and worldly possessions.
    2. The material and worldly possessions are defined as God’s gifts to mankind (final verse) for use in the conduct of our temporal life. Consequently, the material themselves are not the root – hence there is no need to shun or reject them.
    3. Kaam is defined as the desire for the indulgence and penchant for the ESSENCE (RUSS) of these material possessions. Russ is in turned defined as our attempt to obtain joy and bliss from worldly things.
    4. Given that there is NO permanent or lasting joy of any kind in material; we get deeper and deeper into a slippery slope for more material. The result is a mind that is occupied with worldly RUSS and with no place for Godly Virtues (Verse 6: ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਕੇ ਕੈ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ ੨ ॥ Etey Russ Sareer Kay Kay Ghat Naam Niwas.)
    5. Taken as a whole then, Kaam is the antonym of Naam. (Final verse: ਰਾਚਹਿ ਦਾਨਿ ਨ ਨਾਇ ॥ Rachey Daan Na Naye.) Where there is Kaam, there can be no Naam. Since Naam refers to our spiritual desires for Godly Virtues; Kaam refers to our temporal desires for the Essence of Material.
    6. Guru Nanak is asking us to make an enlightened choice for Naam over Kaam. Gurbani helps us make the choice by providing the enlightenment needed. End.
     
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  3. swarn bains

    swarn bains Poet SPNer

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    kaam means anything excessive desire or hijacks one's mind
     
  4. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    hello sir, fist, thankyou for your contribution on this forum giving us insights on Gurbani and sharing ur experience. I find it really informative..
    i have a question.....
    Do we consider it KAAM if i wanna be a very successful guy and live a lavish life traveling around the world with my family ?
    what are your thoughts on this ?
     
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  5. swarn bains

    swarn bains Poet SPNer

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    it is a bit higher than that.
     
  6. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    What is higher than what ?
    Sorry i didn't get your point.... Please explain it.... :)
     
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  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    will you be going to Amsterdam?
     
  8. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    probably. XD
    if my buisness works out XD.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    well if
    well if the first thing you checked was where the local Gurudwara was, rather than the drugs and hookers, then you have not got a problem
     
  10. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    Well im 20 yr old nd never went anywhere near any drugs....... guess i'm pretty sure i wont go that way everr...
     
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  11. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    I always try to correct those who think and declare that kaam=sex. Lust for sex CAN be kaam. But sex itself is not something wrong especially between married persons. Similarly, lust for money, or power over others, or drugs, or alcohol, or status, or possessions, etc can ALL be kaam.
    Kaam is not sex.

    However many try to say it is, and forgetting all the other things, propose that by depriving themselves of that human contact, they are somehow higher spiritually. :(
     
  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    I am always wary of people that try and correct people, I do not think anyone has the right to correct anyone, only correct people if you are prepared to then take the consequences of that correction in that persons life,

    of course, you are correct, kaam is not sex, it is the love and addiction of sex, but in a similar fashion to alcoholics that deny themselves alcohol, sex addicts also realise that denying themselves sex means killing the addiction, just as an ex alcoholic is one drink away from being an alcoholic, an ex sex addict is one {censored} away from being a sex addict, so in that sense, to them, kaam does equal sex.
     
  13. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    Harry are you saying you don’t believe that kaam includes desire for money? Or drugs? Or power? Etc???? That it’s only the desire for sex?
     
  14. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    not at all, I am just saying that for people addicted to all of those things, the first drink, first smoke, first hit of whatever, including sex will result in a downward spiral, and to that end, for some, sex can never be a loving union of souls and an ability to share love, it will always be a {censored}, and it will always be kaam.

    Apologies, I agree completely that kaam is as you described, "Similarly, lust for money, or power over others, or drugs, or alcohol, or status, or possessions, etc can ALL be kaam. "

    however, for the majority, the only area that kaam manifests itself is sex, and for a minority, they are unable to even have sex without it awakening kaam
     
  15. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    Then How do we differentiate GREED and LUST. If Both means having strong desire for something
     
  16. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    Greed is burning desire for wealth, lust is burning desire for sex.

    A person can still hope for prosperous life and feel desire for their partner without experiencing greed or lust.
     
  17. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    For me personally, I've experienced the normal desire for my partner, and the burning, blinding, hideous lust (kaam) that dominates the mind. I hope I don't have to experience it again.
     
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  18. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    interesting :scratchingchin:
     
  19. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    i disagree with my sis, I find them both the same, one can have a lust or greed for life
     
  20. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur Writer SPNer Supporter

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    Kaam - literally - lust for sex.
    - metaphorically - an uncontrollable desire for anything.

    Many words have such dual meanings, even more so when used poetically. Siri Guru Granth Sahib is written as poetry. I conclude that the word "kaam," may, therefore, be used in either sense. Context and the reader's own good sense would point to which is being used in a particular passage. Also, both meanings may be present.

    This is one occasion where you really can have it both ways. You can have your cake and eat it, too.

    That is my analysis.
     
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  21. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    Lust is defined as a passionate desire for something.

    a passionate desire for something.
    "a lust for power"
    synonyms: greed, desire, craving, covetousness, eagerness, avidity, cupidity, longing, yearning, hunger, thirst, appetite, hankering
    "a lust for power"

    Greed is defined more as selfishness.

    One can lust over things even strongly without being selfish. For example if I craved or lusted over alcohol or drugs, it doesn’t make me greedy. Maybe I share my alcohol and drugs openly... Greed is more hoarding for one’s self, more than one needs while not sharing or helping others. Similarly one can be greedy without necessarily listing over something.
     
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