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Do You Think You Are Khalsa?

Do You Think You Are a Khalsa? Please Share You Views...

  • Yes, I think so!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, I am not!

    Votes: 9 26.5%
  • No, But I am trying

    Votes: 25 73.5%
  • I am not Sure! I do not really know the answer!!

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Total voters
    34

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
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Page 63, Line 4
ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੋ ਅਗਨੀ ਪਾਸਿ ਪਿਰਾਣੁ ॥
रकतु बिंदु का इहु तनो अगनी पासि पिराणु ॥
Rakaṯ binḏ kā ih ṯano agnī pās pirāṇ.
This body is made of blood and semen. It shall be consigned to the fire in the end.
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Feb 14, 2006
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31
sorry but your posts are wrong... well at least rationally they make no sense.

Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa


What is the nature and purpose of hair?

to protect your skull from high g blows, cushioning your brain (in its natural state it is suppose to be long and frizzy to accomplish the afro look, the ultimate cushion). The secondary purpose is to provide insulation to the head.
If you are looking at hair as merely a part of the physical body as explained by Western trained scientists and materialists, and the physical universe as being the sum total of all there is, then yes, your analysis is correct. But if you are looking to understand why Sikh religion ties a joora of hair in this area, you have to analyze the historical yogic teaching about the significance of hair and it's relationship to the human body as a vehicle of transcendance.

Whether or not you accept this historical interpretation does not negate the utilization of these practices of keeping uncut hair and tieing hair knot over the location of the dasm duar. So obviously I am not giving some medical textbook definition, but making allusions to yogic teaching, as these are found in Gurbani, in rehitnamay, and in certain characteristics of Khalsa bana, including joora. If you wish to keep the western medical definitions and discounting of pranic purpose of hair, that is your perogative. But I ask you, based on YOUR definitions of hair... "Why do Sikhs wear uncut hair tied in a top knot? What is the origin of this practice?" And many will find a modern Western cultural definition based on materialism to be unconvincing, as certainly such a definition did not even exist during the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

The top knot was also used by Vedic families, such as Vasishthas mentioned in the Rig Veda (VI.33.1). The knot also represents the opened Crown Chakra, which is sometimes represented in Buddha images as a rising flame. This idea is connected to the Vedic Atharvan Brahmins, with Dadhyak and his father both having opened Crown Chakras, where the Prana or life-breath comes out. Rig Veda (VI.16.13) records this as Fire from the Lotus in the Head.

Rudra or Shiva in Rig Veda is often depicted with braided hair, as Shiva and Yogis are in later times, and as we also find in the Indus. Moreover, the Three-faced ‘Pashupati’ seal has much relationship with Vedic deities such as Agni, Indra and Soma who are often compared to bulls (vrisha), and Agni who often has horns (shringa) and is also three-faced (RV.I.146.1) like the deity in the Pashupati seal, and also in the other images. Most interesting in this hymn, is the following verse (I.146.2) calls Agni a “great steer”.

The Horns and Crown also represent the sacred Nada-Bindu symbol of the Hindus, the Sun and Moon, which represents the sacred sound. Depicted on the head shows Enlightenment, and also corresponds to the Horned Solar-disk worn by Egyptian deities. These later become the crescent-moon which adorn the head or crown of later Hindu deities – again, especially Shiva and the Goddess. The animals surrounding Pashupati are the senses, for the Marut warriors who are lead by Agni, are often personifications of pashus (beasts) which in turn are senses (indriyas) and life-breaths (pranas) in Yogic thought. These again, are often depicted in later times.

CONTINUITY OF ART STYLES IN INDI



ਚਉਦਸਿ ਚਉਥੇ ਥਾਵਹਿ ਲਹਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
choudhas chouthhae thhaavehi lehi paavai ||
The Fourteenth Day: One who enters into the fourth state,

ਰਾਜਸ ਤਾਮਸ ਸਤ ਕਾਲ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥
raajas thaamas sath kaal samaavai ||
overcomes time, and the three qualities of raajas, taamas and satva.

ਸਸੀਅਰ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਰੁ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥
saseear kai ghar soor samaavai ||
Then the sun enters into the house of the moon,

ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
jog jugath kee keemath paavai ||
and one knows the value of the technology of Yoga.
~SGGS Ji p. 840



ਸਿੰਙੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਅਨਾਹਦਿ ਵਾਜੈ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ॥੪॥
sinn(g)ee surath anaahadh vaajai ghatt ghatt joth thumaaree ||4||
The horn of consciousness vibrates the unstruck sound current; Your Light illuminates each and every heart, Lord. ||4||

ਪਰਪੰਚ ਬੇਣੁ ਤਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਅਗਨਿ ਪਰਜਾਰੀ ॥੫॥
parapanch baen thehee man raakhiaa breham agan parajaaree ||5||
He plays the flute of the universe in his mind, and lights the fire of God. ||5||

ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਦੀਪਕੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਪਾਰੀ ॥੬॥
panch thath mil ahinis dheepak niramal joth apaaree ||6||
Bringing together the five elements, day and night, the Lord's lamp shines with the Immaculate Light of the Infinite. ||6||

ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਲਉਕੇ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਵਾਜੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਨਿਰਾਰੀ ॥੭॥
rav sas loukae eihu than kinguree vaajai sabadh niraaree ||7||
The right and left nostrils, the sun and the moon channels, are the strings of the body-harp; they vibrate the wondrous melody of the Shabad. ||7||
~SGGS Ji p. 907


"On this area, about 12 finger widths from the eyebrows... where the hair is knotted in shikha is "where the most important subtle nerve nadi, the sushumna, which originates in the first chakra, bifurcates at the end of the medulla oblongata and its posterior aspect terminates at this spot. " The knot works on the energy here, by pulling at the hair and keep the "fine capillaries connected with the root excited, which in turn improves the circulation of the energy. This practice was once upon a time considered essential for practitioners of pranayama."
Jai Sivananda: Looking beyond the image: On hair knots and pranayama perfection



ਮੇਰ ਡੰਡ ਸਿਰ ਊਪਰਿ ਬਸੈ ॥੨॥
maer ddandd sir oopar basai ||2||
Through the central channel of the Shushmanaa, it rises up above my head. ||2||

ਪਸਚਮ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਕੀ ਸਿਲ ਓੜ ॥
pasacham dhuaarae kee sil ourr ||
There is a stone at that western gate,

ਤਿਹ ਸਿਲ ਊਪਰਿ ਖਿੜਕੀ ਅਉਰ ॥
thih sil oopar khirrakee aour ||
and above that stone, is another window.

ਖਿੜਕੀ ਊਪਰਿ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
khirrakee oopar dhasavaa dhuaar ||
Above that window is the Tenth Gate.
~SGGS Ji p. 1159



Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
First hair has the quality of being able to conduct an electro-magnetic current.

Wrong
Hair cannot conduct very efficiently. Has less conductivity than your skin or your bones, nervous tissue and the REST OF YOUR BODY… in fact it has the lowest conductivity of your entire body…the most resistance (resistivity of hair= 3 x 1012 ohm-cm at room temperature). The fact that STATIC CHARGE can build up on hair is proof that hair is not a good conductor of electro-magnetic current.
As I said hair has the quality of being able to conduct electric current, this can be proved as scientific fact. As I did not say hair was the best known conductor of electricity, the basis of whether it is great, moderate or poor conductor is not the question. So you are only concluding I am wrong because you desperately want to invalidate the basis of yoga theory. What is most powerful about hair is not so much it's potency of conduction, but it's ability to vibrate frequencies of sound current as fine hairs within the ear, as this relates to Shabda, Naam, and the transmission of praana through the chakras of the body to unlock the dasm duar. It is the tradition among yogis to coil the hair over the area of dasm duar to form a protective mudra, (seal).

How Do We Create Electromagnetic Waves?

It is a fact taken from observation of nature that any object that carries charge and moves with a nonzero acceleration radiates EM waves. Of course, the properties of the radiated EM waves strongly depend on HOW the source moved, what it's acceleration was.

As a simple example, let's consider your comb, after you combed your hair. The comb is made of plastic, and it becomes charged after you brush your hair (your hair, of course, becomes charged with the equal, but opposite, charge). If one starts to wave the comb up and down, the charge on the comb moves with a nonzero acceleration, and therefore shines EM waves.

How Do We Create Electromagnetic Waves?
The mere act of combing the hair puts an electric charge in it. This is the point of a kanga, joora system. That is all I was saying.


Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
It attracts lightning, like a lightning rod.

That’s quite an Imagination you have
Indeed. I have seen video where people are in the proximity of a lightning storm, and their hair actually stands on end and reaches toward the lightning. The body is more than just the flesh and blood and bones and hairs. I believe there are also subtle currents in the body. Again, I can't scientifically prove this belief, but it isn't my theory, these are older yogic theories about energy which isn't exactly electro-magnetic, but thats the closest we have on the physical plane to describe it subtle energies. There are some people more than others who actually are struck by lightning multiple times and something about them is acting as an attractant to these energies.

So if the hair can conduct static electricity and stand on end, if it has the property of being able to reach upwards towards lightning, this is the quality of the hair I'm talking about which has the ability to also conduct and attract, or be attracted by subtle spiritual energies. But you can teach in your schools that hair is a dead thing which serves nothing more than decorative function if you prefer. This is a forum. I'm sharing my views based on metaphysical interpretations of hidden and unseen energies within the human body to explain the purpose of a joora. I don't expect it will make a Harvard thesis. But why you should feel bothered enough to degrade my opinion rather than simply offering an instructive and positive counter-opinion without personal put-downs is beyond me.

Materials that bear imbalances of opposite charge will attract each other and cling together. Materials that bear imbalances of like charge will repel each other. When an object bearing an enormous accumulation of positive or negative charge comes close to another object bearing the opposite charge, a spark may jump across the space between them. This results in both the enormously powerful discharges of lightning and the small yet stimulating shocks we receive when touching something after shuffling across a carpet in our stocking feet.

Because wool cloth is a material that readily gives up electrons, it is used in many activities to produce an accumulation of negative charge on an otherwise neutral object. Human hair is another common material that readily gives up electrons.

Static Electricity


Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
It is only on the human being that has such a highly developed brain that the hairs grow very long on the head. No other animal has this peculiar feature.

dogs (especially some breeds of poodles), Cats, Lions, Buffalo's, bison, some camels, goats and Horses...all can have long hair on their heads relative to their body size
I'm talking about the ability to grow to extremes of length disproportionate to any apparent biological function or need, which distinguishes humans from other animals. But I can only discuss what I know. Why do you feel free to trash another person? If you have better knowledge, is there a reason you share it in a derogatory way? I happen to think you shared a delightful picture of a horse and I enjoyed it very much. But it was hard to enjoy the context in which you were trashing me as a person and pointing out how ignorant and incapable I am for having an opinion you don't value.

nepal_hairyman.jpg

image047.jpg

guangxi+Long-haired+girls+combing+hair.jpg


It's my opinion that generally these animal forms are not as sophisticated in development of brain and spiritual centers as human beings. However, the fact is all biological forms bear close genetic relationship which is why you will see bone structure of fingers and hand nearly approximated on fins or bat wings.

lion.jpg


However, seeing the picture you posted and investigating the Andalusian long-mane horse, I must modify my understanding to acknowledge human beings are NOT the only creatures with long hair on the head, but are one of few creatures which grows extremely long hair on the head. But I add, this doesn't negate it's yogic function as part of the body-brain-kundalini energy center.

long-mane-2.jpg

Andalusian long-haired horse


Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
The hair, brain and spine are one unique biological and metaphysical system at least for purposes of yoga.

What is metaphysics?
What is a metaphysical system and how do you relate it to biology? (metaphysics , by its shear definition is suppose to be beyond the natural sciences…if it isn’t then it cannot be classified as metaphysical)
Better yet how is Hair, Brian and spine part of a metaphysical system?
youve learnt the word, unfortunately never bothered to look up the meaning.
Is there a reason for you to be so rude? This is a discussion forum. Why does my opinion offend you so much as to cause this kind of harsh response? Do you see me speaking to you in this degrading way? Rudeness is the attitude which shuts down communication and no one can ever learn anything or share anything with anyone. Is that the purpose of this forum? To be rude and degrading to opinions of others?

I would like to mention to the moderators that I have been strictly censored multiple times in the past for less than what has collectively been expressed to me, including having posts deleted. My account is still flagged months later for allegedly "abusing other members" and I never said anything like this to anyone. What's that about?

What is metaphysics?
"Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy investigating principles of reality transcending those of any particular science."

"Philosophies traditionally start with a metaphysics: a theory of the essence of things, of the fundamental principles that organize the universe. Metaphysics is supposed to answer the question "What is the nature of reality?"


What is a metaphysical system and how do you relate it to biology? (metaphysics , by its shear definition is suppose to be beyond the natural sciences…if it isn’t then it cannot be classified as metaphysical)
Just because a concept transcends the physical sciences doesn't mean there isn't a physical element involved. Take the soul, for example. Nearly every religious teaching which believes in a soul, also believe this soul resides in and interacts in a body. Is the fact that yogic philosophy teaches the human atma is comprised of subtle sheaths and incorporating the physical body to mean that the hatha yoga physical asanas are NOT a part of a metaphysical science? And is the fact that such yogic postures related to metaphysical theory mean they cannot have a proven physical effect or value? In other words, I don't believe metaphysics and physical science are mutually exclusive. rather they overlap in important ways. People cry, and laugh, and have intense emotional and even spiritual responses to things which are not even visible. Would anyone question whether these reactions are not at once both physical AND metaphysical as if relates to the soul reacting within the body?

But you're entitled to disagree. These are my views. If you don't appreciate them, why not make a post of your own exploring what you do value?

Better yet how is Hair, Brian and spine part of a metaphysical system?
youve learnt the word, unfortunately never bothered to look up the meaning.

Anyone looking at any yogic book will immediately find in its table of contents, both a metaphysical theory as relates to hidden processes such as chakras and nadis, as well as physical practices such as pranayama, mudras, and asanas, as well as discussions of how health, psychological and spiritual condition can be positively affected by such practices. Never have I seen a yogic book which failed to equate the metaphysics with physical systems of the body. Is there a particular reason that it should not? Perhaps Western metaphysics, like Aristotelian philosophy has this constraint. As far as I know, Eastern metaphysical teachings, most particularly yoga and ayurveda, do not. So explanations about physical processes overlap with discussions about metaphysical structures not demonstrated by Western science.

Hair, brain and spine are part of a metaphysical system because they relate on a gross outer level to the interior chakra system and the subtle energies pathways of nadis and prana, or chi. At least, this was what I was referring to. Again, I am dismayed why anyone would be so offended by such a traditional yogic belief, on a religious philosophy forum, where such concepts can be found in Gurbani. Without tackling the metaphysical energy system, how can simply discussing hair, brain and spine tell anyone anything about the spiritual purpose behind such physical structures?

Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
The human infant is born with the sutures of his skull remaining open in areas called fontanels. With age the sutures of the skull tighten. But you see this area of the anterior fontanel approximates the metaphysical location of the dasam duar, or tenth opening of the body.


Name the other 10 and I will show you more!
Also
The skull never remains OPEN!…in infants it is always covered if not with bone tissue…then with cartilage (later to go through bone ossification with the help of Osteoblasts)
I did not say the brain was exposed, but the bones of the skull have not closed. You say the skull is never open. That's your view. The tenth opening is a metaphysical concept and not a physical opening. As I mentioned before, yogic tradition equates the metaphysical philosophy together with the anatomical physical structures. If you do not wish to accept the ancient traditions which explain the anterior fontanel as the area of the Tenth opening, or door, then don't. But I can quote yoga sutras, Vedas and Bhagavad-Gita to prove that this opinion is not my own invention.

Name the other 10 and I will show you more!
The nine openings are 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, 1 mouth, 1 rectum, 1 urethra.

Here, let's evaluate the origin of such theories.


"This abode of the angels has eight circuits and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light." ~Atharva Veda X, 2, 31


Atharva Veda 10.8.43-44: The 'nine-portalled lotus' is the 'city of nine gates' (Bhagavad Gita 5.13), that is, the body.



ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਕਾਇਆ ਕੋਟੁ ਹੈ ਦਸਵੈ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖੀਜੈ ॥
no dharavaajae kaaeiaa kott hai dhasavai gupath rakheejai ||
The fortress of the body has nine gates; the tenth gate is kept hidden.

ਬਜਰ ਕਪਾਟ ਨ ਖੁਲਨੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਖੁਲੀਜੈ ॥
bajar kapaatt n khulanee gur sabadh khuleejai ||
The rigid door is not open; only through the Word of the Guru's Shabad can it be opened.

ਅਨਹਦ ਵਾਜੇ ਧੁਨਿ ਵਜਦੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਣੀਜੈ ॥
anehadh vaajae dhhun vajadhae gur sabadh suneejai ||
The unstruck sound current resounds and vibrates there. The Word of the Guru's Shabad is heard.
~SGGS Ji p. 954



ਭਾਠੀ ਗਗਨੁ ਸਿੰਙਿਆ ਅਰੁ ਚੁੰਙਿਆ ਕਨਕ ਕਲਸ ਇਕੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
bhaathee gagan sinn(g)iaa ar chunn(g)iaa kanak kalas eik paaeiaa ||
The Tenth Gate of my crown chakra is the distilling fire, and the channels of the Ida and Pingala are the funnels, to pour in and empty out the golden vat.

ਤਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰ ਚੁਐ ਅਤਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਰਸ ਮਹਿ ਰਸਨ ਚੁਆਇਆ ॥੨॥
this mehi dhhaar chuai ath niramal ras mehi rasan chuaaeiaa ||2||
Into that vat, there trickles a gentle stream of the most sublime and pure essence of all distilled essences. ||2||

ਏਕ ਜੁ ਬਾਤ ਅਨੂਪ ਬਨੀ ਹੈ ਪਵਨ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਸਾਜਿਆ ॥
eaek j baath anoop banee hai pavan piaalaa saajiaa ||
Something wonderful has happened-the breath has become the cup.

ਤੀਨਿ ਭਵਨ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਵਨੁ ਹੈ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੩॥
theen bhavan mehi eaeko jogee kehahu kavan hai raajaa ||3||
In all the three worlds, such a Yogi is unique. What king can compare to him? ||3||
~SGGS Ji p. 92




"Having slit open the divider of the skull, he indeed, entered the body by that door. That door is called vidrti. It is the place of joy. For him there are three abodes and three dreams. This is the abode. This is the abode. This is the abode." ~Aitareya Upanishad, ch 3, sloka 12




What is the portal of entry for this enjoyer? Where are the gates by which the enjoyer can enter, animate, and spiritualize this body? (The nine gates of the body are the two eyes, the two ears, the two nostrils, one mouth, one generative, and one reproductive organ). There are two portals in the body for entry, namely the crown and the forefoot. In the crown, it is Vidrti [split or crevice], the opening (brahma-randhra) in the sagittal suture of the skull, also known as anterior fontanel―the area corresponding to the soft spot on the top of the baby’s head. It is sahasrara, the highest center of spiritual consciousness in Kundalini yoga and the seat of the thousand-petalled lotus.

By this portal, the self enters the body; the self from the time of entry into the body moves among three abodes of residence according to the level of consciousness: wakefulness, dream sleep, and deep sleep; Turiya is the fourth state experienced only by yogis. The right eye is the abode during the wakefulness, the inner mind during dream sleep, and the space in the heart during deep sleep. ~Veeraswamy Krishnaraj
Creation and Dissolution



ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਛੂਟੈ ਚਉਥੈ ਪਦਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥
sathagur miliai thrikuttee shhoottai chouthhai padh mukath dhuaar ||2||
Meeting the Guru, the bondage of the three qualities is cut away, and in the fourth state, the Door of Liberation is attained. ||2||
~SGGS Ji p. 33



Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
This alone means nothing. The hairs have to be charged with vibrational current by japping Naam Gurmantra. And then the energy of this Gurmantra in the hairs, with the ground of wooden kanga and insulated with dastaar places a seal or protection over the mind.

really?



ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਮਹਿ ਬਸਹਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥
rom rom mehi basehi muraar ||
and on each and every hair, the Lord abides.
~SGGS Ji p. 344



ਬੋਲੈ ਪਵਨਾ ਗਗਨੁ ਗਰਜੈ ॥
bolai pavanaa gagan garajai ||
The breath blows across the sky of the Tenth Gate and vibrates.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਸਹਜੈ ॥੫੦॥
naanak nihachal milan sehajai ||50||
O Nanak, the mortal then intuitively meets the eternal, unchanging Lord. ||50||
~SGGS Ji p. 943



ਰੋਮਿ ਰੋਮਿ ਰਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥
rom rom raviaa har naam ||
The Lord's Name permeates each and every hair of mine.
~SGGS Ji p. 1144



God has given us the gift of the human body. The hair is sacred due to the fact that Naam abides within each and every pore of hair on the body. The Kesh are like electrical wires, which preserve, carry and vibrate energy. When one does Naam Japnaa (meditation on the Lord) the hair acts as a spiritual tool, vibrating and absorbing Naam.
Five ks - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.



Quote:Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa
This is a yogic and spiritual practice. It is a technique to obtain purification of the mind and spiritual liberation. This is why it's important not to wait until one is too old to receive initiation and Gurmantra, and hairs are lost naturally and lose this effect. This is why you cannot have Guru's mantra as a sehajdhari. You may say the word. But it will not achieve the same effect. Without keeping hairs and japping Naam, you cannot achieve liberation in this life. If you are following the path of a Sikh, the goal is mukti. And this is the practice of attaining mukti. The precious human form is a rare gift. The life is a precious gift don't waste it.

What a loaded wash! With the rather typical arguments using fear and maintaining exclusivity for attaining mukti (all I see is ego with every judgmental word).
According to this primitive thought pattern any child practicing Sikhi and fighting leukemia (undergoing treatment with chemotherapy) cannot, whats the word? : “achieve vibration in this life” ?

Nor can balding men.

Nor can those inflicted with severe Alopecia Areata Totalis (go ahead look it up...these are people that are born with no hair whatsoever).


and exactly how long does this hair have to be before it can pick up these "vibrations" (considering many people have hair of varrying lengths...i guess those with longer hair have better reception? )

Anyways, the rest of your post is actually worth reading.

cheers
Why thank you for saying by inference that my post was worthless. Perhaps you would do well to consider how worthless it is to say hurtful and negative things to another person. You know, on the subject of subtle energies and physical structures, I'm going to tell you another unappreciated secret. When people say harmful and mean things, they put a vibration of despair and sickness in the atmosphere. When words are cruel enough, some people can wither and die from those words. Those words are an energy of disease like cancer. When people speak positive and uplifting words of encouragement to a sick person, sometimes that person will rally and recover. Think about the power of your attitudes and words to affect the whole world. Then think about every living being on the planet as being in some way a part of yourself. And think about what you want out of life, a world of despair and sickness when there is already so much suffering, or do you want to change that cycle and be something different? You have the power.

(all I see is ego with every judgmental word).
Who is judging whom? It's not like I made up these definitions. they've existed within yogic traditions for thousands of years. I simply happen to believe they have validity and clarify what Gurbani teaches. Do you have any better explanation for why Sikhism keeps uncut hair tied up in a joora in a particular place on the head?

With the rather typical arguments using fear and maintaining exclusivity for attaining mukti
Is it fear and exclusivity? Even those with hair can hardly find the gate of liberation. Very very few. The cyclic existance of suffering deaths and rebirths belongs to all of us. I'm not immune from having a child with leukemia. How do you know if I ever had a child with leukemia or if I have leukemia? Do you know anything about me at all? I'm not immune from suffering. I never said I had the boat of mukti or was a brahmgyani. I share what I learn because I think it has value. At least these spiritual concepts have value to me. The suffering sansaara belongs to all of us, with maybe some extremely rare exceptions. So where is the exclusivity? To have a human body is a rare and priceless gift. To have a healthy human body is a rare and priceless gift. Regardless of the debate about hair, is life any less "exclusive" when one family has a healthy child and another has to watch their child die?

Did I do something to cause that suffering and seeming injustice? No. Then why speak harshly to me, as if I were to blame?

I believe in spiritual teachings as being able to provide guidance and understanding for seeming injustices of the life. You don't have to. The body is a rare and precious gift that fades away. We have a window of opportunity to seek the Lord while the body is healthy. When the body is sickened and old, we cannot, and have to wait for another opportunity to have a healthy human body. This is not my hukam. Just because people are born here; Just because they are nice; Just because you love them, doesn't mean they have Guruji's grace to obtain mukti. And just because someone doesn't obtain mukti, doesn't mean he is not also Jyot of the Parabrahm and will find merging with the True Self at a later time. It's not like Christian teaching where everyone gets only one chance to convert and is damned forever if he doesn't. It's a karmic based belief system. I did not invent it. You don't have to believe in it. Why trash it? We are all evolving to a higher and better state of consciousness. What can be lost? The atma does not suffer and die. Only the form, and the identity caught in time.

Individually we have to do the work. Are there other paths to mukti besides this particular yogic path I have described? Yes. But for the path with uncut hair, and japping the vibrational Shabad-Naam into the hairs, well, naturally, you need hairs to accomplish it. Does this mean a bald person shouldn't jap Naam? No. Anyone can jap Naam, and who knows what grace will give that person. Hair of itself, is not a boat of mukti. I'm simply showing the importance of hair, and the yogic practice which I believe (and I know others do not) is what is being discussed in Gurbani. Shave your head and become a Buddhist if you want to. You will probably find greater yogic insights than I have. But that won't change the historical yogic practice of tying joora. And hence my explanation, which probably wasn't even completely accurate to begin with, but it was the best I could do.



ਬਿਰਧਿ ਭਇਆ ਜੋਬਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਖਿਸਿਆ ਕਫੁ ਕੰਠੁ ਬਿਰੂਧੋ ਨੈਨਹੁ ਨੀਰੁ ਢਰੇ ॥
biradhh bhaeiaa joban than khisiaa kaf kanth biroodhho nainahu neer dtarae ||
He grows old, his body and youth waste away, and his throat is plugged with mucous; water flows from his eyes.
~SGGS Ji p. 1014



ਕਰਮੀ ਆਵੈ ਕਪੜਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
karamee aavai kaparraa nadharee mokh dhuaar ||
By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.
~SGGS Ji p. 2



ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਕਹਤੁ ਬਾਤ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਜੈਹੈ ਤੇਰੋ ਗਾਤੁ ॥
naanak jan kehath baath binas jaihai thaero gaath ||
Servant Nanak speaks the Truth: your body shall perish and pass away.

ਛਿਨੁ ਛਿਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਗਇਓ ਕਾਲੁ ਤੈਸੇ ਜਾਤੁ ਆਜੁ ਹੈ ॥੨॥੧॥
shhin shhin kar gaeiou kaal thaisae jaath aaj hai ||2||1||
Moment by moment, yesterday passed. Today is passing as well. ||2||1||

ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥
jaijaavanthee mehalaa 9 ||
Jaijaavantee, Ninth Mehl:

ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਿਰਾਤੁ ਹੈ ॥
raam bhaj raam bhaj janam siraath hai ||
Meditate on the Lord - vibrate on the Lord; your life is slipping away.

ਕਹਉ ਕਹਾ ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਸਮਝਤ ਨਹ ਕਿਉ ਗਵਾਰ ॥
keho kehaa baar baar samajhath neh kio gavaar ||
Why am I telling you this again and again? You fool - why don't you understand?

ਬਿਨਸਤ ਨਹ ਲਗੈ ਬਾਰ ਓਰੇ ਸਮ ਗਾਤੁ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
binasath neh lagai baar ourae sam gaath hai ||1|| rehaao ||
Your body is like a hail-stone; it melts away in no time at all. ||1||Pause||

ਸਗਲ ਭਰਮ ਡਾਰਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਹਿ ॥
sagal bharam ddaar dhaehi gobindh ko naam laehi ||
So give up all your doubts, and utter the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਅੰਤਿ ਬਾਰ ਸੰਗਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਇਹੈ ਏਕੁ ਜਾਤੁ ਹੈ ॥੧॥
anth baar sang thaerai eihai eaek jaath hai ||1||
At the very last moment, this alone shall go along with you. ||1||
~SGGS Ji p. 1352


~Bhul chak maaf karni ji
 
"Why do Sikhs wear uncut hair tied in a top knot? What is the origin of this practice?"


You asked a good question;
To which a rational reply would be:
The Sikh or Khalsa usually wears uncut hair in a top knot as ornamentation (fetishism), as a display of cultural unity and to display cultural differences from the majority of other tribal practices in India and abroad…not to attract lightning nor to pick up an “electro-magnetic current” from mantra and god!

An individual can say what she or he desires for keeping or not keeping hair.

Explaining something using incorrect pseudo-science, I frown upon…it’s the misuse of intellect that is the most derogatory thing a person can do. (Whether you do it, or you relay what the “yogis” have taught you…doesn’t matter to me…nonsense shall remain nonsense)


“As I said hair has the quality of being able to conduct electric current, this can be proved as scientific fact. As I did not say hair was the best known conductor of electricity, the basis of whether it is great, moderate or poor conductor is not the question.”

Again, another display of intellectual dishonesty. Everything known to man has the “quality” to conduct electric current (on some variation). I’m pretty sure you would not have said “it attracts lightning like a lightning rod” had you not thought it was a good conductor.
Brush up on your physics (and drop the “metaphysics”). I recommend learning the difference between static discharge and current.

“So you are only concluding I am wrong because you desperately want to invalidate the basis of yoga theory.”

Yeap, that must be it! …lol (yoga is fine with me…I even do yoga…but I don’t try to justify it using science that is beyond me)

“I believe there are also subtle currents in the body. Again, I can't scientifically prove this belief, but it isn't my theory, these are older yogic theories about energy which isn't exactly electro-magnetic, but thats the closest we have on the physical plane to describe it subtle energies.”

Then don’t use the word “electro-magnetic current”…you know I don’t read minds.
You can continue to believe in these “subtle energies”, just don’t try to describe and justify them with scientific terms that you may not understand.

“This is a forum. I'm sharing my views based on metaphysical interpretations of hidden and unseen energies within the human body to explain the purpose of a joora.”

Good (please do share), and I am sharing my views on your views from a rational perspective.
“However, seeing the picture you posted and investigating the Andalusian long-mane horse, I must modify my understanding to acknowledge human beings are NOT the only creatures with long hair on the head, but are one of few creatures which grows extremely long hair on the head. But I add, this doesn't negate it's yogic function as part of the body-brain-kundalini energy center.”


Why hasn’t this negated what you said earlier? Your previous post preached exclusivity (so rationally, I have just negated what you have said about exclusivity).

“But you're entitled to disagree. These are my views. If you don't appreciate them, why not make a post of your own exploring what you do value?


I have many times explored what I value…just browse the forums.
I value the same things you value! (I don’t for a second actually believe you value these yogic teachings…because you, like myself, are a rational, human being)

“The nine openings are 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, 1 mouth, 1 rectum, 1 urethra.”

what about the umbilical cord? And the Vaginal orifice, which is separate from the urethra? (what a convenient way of leaving out these important openings)

“Why thank you for saying by inference that my post was worthless.”

Oh don’t mention…twas my honour….I was initially torn whether or not I should have responded…now I’m rather grateful that I did.

“Even those with hair can hardly find the gate of liberation.”

That was not the point of my post…the entire point of my post was to show how you put a barrier/preconditions between man and god to satisfy yourself.
The Yogis also loved creating these barriers! Which is why Guru Nanak apposed them and their ways?

According to your models, sikhi is no longer a universal faith! YOU HAVE EFFECTIVELY DESTROYED IT! When you said:

“This is why you cannot have Guru's mantra as a sehajdhari. You may say the word. But it will not achieve the same effect. Without keeping hairs and japping Naam, you cannot achieve liberation in this life. “

(as if you know what “liberation” is)
Once this ball starts rolling the underlying principle that make up a faith are destroyed…of co{censored} do not admit to this…your best defence is to state that your “intentions” were clean (which they may or may not be true…I am no judge).

Listen and contemplate to the shabad that namjap ji posted (post #41).
Your hair can be long in spirit even if they are not long physically!

Truthiness for all. (last post)
sinister
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
Dear sinny.,
u always were KANT to me and may be will remain so. Siks are ****** sentimentals and they want to meet him at his cost.
wah!!!

I am i n India.
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
Dear sinny,
I see that messsage is not that it should be. it is like a cow bee. i shall try to converse with you in the language that you appreciate.
Is rationalism better than legalism.?
yeah., i am 84 riot victim or blessed.i have all that a ****** american sikh would have dreamt of. but i am in sikism .R u also ?
hps
 
Dear sinny,
I see that messsage is not that it should be. it is like a cow bee. i shall try to converse with you in the language that you appreciate.
Is rationalism better than legalism.?
yeah., i am 84 riot victim or blessed.i have all that a ****** american sikh would have dreamt of. but i am in sikism .R u also ?
hps


Sikh80 ji,

Is rationalism better than legalism?

Yes!

To what degree are you a utilitarian?

Also note; there is no logical or rational reason for the choice I made…just emotion.

Truth cannot be discerned

Only truthiness can (and that exists on a individual level on the basis of taste).

SO am I KANT or am I a romanticist? (a little of both)

I am, by my very participation on this website "in sikhism" and I am an american and canadian (dual citizen) (my parents are very much indian)

I will try my hardest to write as direct, clear and coherent as I can (i believe in frankness).

cheers
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
Cheers,'

Ever thought of investigating your routes in India.

Do it if thou are +45. Fundng for travel granted. Stay can also be arranged. If Majecty so opts.
COmpany is not assured,.
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
May be Sinister ji ,I am in the same boat, the most hilarious moments come when people start teaching science from religion. You disagree with them rationally on their irrational ideology, they try to tear you apart; surprisingly they claim to be sailing in a spiritual boat. Are you with me. Just sharing with you, Gurbani has made me more rational" do not boast on field we dont have an inkling of what is it actually" lesson of His Infinity is understood only this way. When limitations are pointed, a lot of sludge of ego pops up. I am enjoying your posts as always.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
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Rationality as a term is related to the idea of reason, a word which following Webster's may be derived as much from older terms referring to thinking itself as from giving an account or an explanation. This lends the term a dual aspect. One aspect associates it with comprehension, intelligence, or inference, particularly when an inference is drawn in ordered ways (thus a syllogism is a rational argument in this sense). The other part associates rationality with explanation, understanding or justification, particularly if it provides a ground or a motive. 'Irrational', therefore, is defined as that which is not endowed with reason or understanding.
A logical argument is often described as "rational" if it is logically valid. However, rationality is a much broader term than logic, as it includes "uncertain but sensible" arguments based on probability, expectation, personal experience and the like, whereas logic deals principally with provable facts and demonstrably valid relations between them. For example, ad hominem arguments are logically unsound, but in many cases they may be rational. A simple philosophical definition of rationality refers to one's use of a "practical syllogism". For example,
I am coldI don't want to be coldIf I close the window I will not be cold... Therefore, I will close the window

Legalism, in Christian theology, is a pejorative term referring to an improper fixation on law or codes of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigor, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law over the spirit. Legalism is alleged against any view that law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption. Its opposite error is antinomianism, which is alleged against a view that moral laws are not binding.

Legalism was a pragmatic political philosophy that does not address higher questions like the nature and purpose of life.[1] It has maxims like "when the epoch changed, legalism is the act of following all laws", and its essential principle is one of jurisprudence. "Legalism" here has the meaning of "political philosophy that upholds the rule of law", and is thus distinguished from the Western meaning of the word. The school's most famous proponent and contributor Han Fei (韓非) believed that a ruler should govern his or her subjects by the following trinity:

  1. Fa (Chinese: 法; pinyin: fǎ; literally "law or principle"): The law code must be clearly written and made public. All people under the ruler were equal before the law. Laws should reward those who obey them and punish accordingly those who dare to break them. Thus it is guaranteed that actions taken are systematically predictable. In addition, the system of law ran the state, not the ruler. If the law is successfully enforced, even a weak ruler will be strong.
  2. Shu (Chinese: 術; pinyin: shù; literally "method, tactic or art"): Special tactics and "secrets" are to be employed by the ruler to make sure others don't take over control of the state. Especially important is that no one can fathom the ruler's motivations, and thus no one can know which behaviour might help them getting ahead; except for following the 法 or laws.
  3. Shi (Chinese: 勢; pinyin: shì; literally "legitimacy, power or charisma"): It is the position of the ruler, not the ruler himself or herself, that holds the power. Therefore, analysis of the trends, the context, and the facts are essential for a real ruler.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
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If this is the way you guyz feel, if feel sorry for you. But don't get me wrong. Sympathy isn't quite about weakness. Cheer up, man.

:star::star::star: for Harjas Kaur Khalsa.
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
May be Sinister ji ,I am in the same boat, the most hilarious moments come when people start teaching science from religion. You disagree with them rationally on their irrational ideology, they try to tear you apart; surprisingly they claim to be sailing in a spiritual boat. Are you with me. Just sharing with you, Gurbani has made me more rational" do not boast on field we dont have an inkling of what is it actually" lesson of His Infinity is understood only this way. When limitations are pointed, a lot of sludge of ego pops up. I am enjoying your posts as always

[it is how the most intelligent sikhs shoul see the gloom unless tey preach and teach with love once thet ae par 45.
[sikh80.
Enjoy the followin Sir,


Kyon tun Milta Nahin..
Kyon ton dikhta nahin.
.

Jo bhe hoon Tera hoon..
Ab Bula ley mujhey


..yeh ardas hey ..

tujhko milunga ...ye merie aas hey..Rab hey ya khuda hey..ye teri Marzi hey..

Tera Banda hoon...

Na ye meeeri marzi thi ..na meri marzi hey..

Ye ..teri khudgarzi thi..ye..teri kudgarzi hey.

Wah Re Khuda.Khoob dekhi khudai Teri ..Khoob dekhi khudai teri....

Duniya bhe teri wah wah bhe teri.......
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
What is a metaphysical system and how do you relate it to biology? (metaphysics , by its shear definition is suppose to be beyond the natural sciences…if it isn’t then it cannot be classified as metaphysical)
Just because a concept transcends the physical sciences doesn't mean there isn't a physical element involved.

As above, so below.
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
If this is the way you guyz feel, if feel sorry for you. But don't get me wrong. Sympathy isn't quite about weakness. Cheer up, man.

:star::star::star: for Harjas Kaur Khalsa.

namjap ji
With all due respect, question, what are you reading that makes you feel sorry for any one? Members are just sharing their honest feelings, if some questions irrationality in context of some thing and then answers the way others feel, why do you feel sorry. I see both members sharing their point of views. I share that teaching science out of religion is funny. Harjas Kaur Khalsa ji says there is energy ideology behind tying hair in the center which may not be true rationally, so what if any one goes in disagreement? Do you feel some one is snubbing some one? Or are you suggesting" open your mouth and swallow every thing." Then why threads are started any way?I call it over board emotional tide that ruins the process of discussion. Sorry my dear friend to disagree with you. Please smile:)
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
May be Sinister ji ,I am in the same boat, the most hilarious moments come when people start teaching science from religion. You disagree with them rationally on their irrational ideology, they try to tear you apart; surprisingly they claim to be sailing in a spiritual boat. Are you with me. Just sharing with you, Gurbani has made me more rational" do not boast on field we dont have an inkling of what is it actually" lesson of His Infinity is understood only this way. When limitations are pointed, a lot of sludge of ego pops up. I am enjoying your posts as always

[it is how the most intelligent sikhs shoul see the gloom unless tey preach and teach with love once thet ae par 45.
[sikh80.
Enjoy the followin Sir,


Kyon tun Milta Nahin..
Kyon ton dikhta nahin.
.

Jo bhe hoon Tera hoon..
Ab Bula ley mujhey


..yeh ardas hey ..

tujhko milunga ...ye merie aas hey..Rab hey ya khuda hey..ye teri Marzi hey..

Tera Banda hoon...

Na ye meeeri marzi thi ..na meri marzi hey..

Ye ..teri khudgarzi thi..ye..teri kudgarzi hey.

Wah Re Khuda.Khoob dekhi khudai Teri ..Khoob dekhi khudai teri....

Duniya bhe teri wah wah bhe teri.......

Sikh80 Ji
Why dont you translate it in English so that all viewers can get insight from it.
I disagree with you on every issue you pointed so far; however, from my heart, I respect what you think, it is you, no one has right to make it another one. Wishes.
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
The Sikh or Khalsa usually wears uncut hair in a top knot as ornamentation (fetishism), as a display of cultural unity and to display cultural differences from the majority of other tribal practices in India and abroad…not to attract lightning nor to pick up an “electro-magnetic current” from mantra and god!
I do not agree with the explanation that a Sikh keeping kesh does so for ornamentation or fetishism. I also do not agree that the vast body of esoteric literature regarding advanced yogic practices has no relationship, especially when such definitions are given textually by Udasi's and some Nihang and Damdami Taksal sants.

I never said Sikhs tie a joora to attract lightning, that is a ridiculous distortion to make deliberate mockery of these teachings because YOU don't believe in them. If anyone does a simple search of Gurbani to find esoteric concepts for vibrating Naam, for the sound current of the Naad, for the power of Shabda to influence and change your thoughts... (and I realize there is a level of esotericism which requires investigation into Vedic, yogic sutras and Puranas to actually define properly) related to sound currents, intonation of Gurmantra, as applied to jappo and kirtan. It is historically a niche esoteric science. It is not a Western science. They are parallels, because much of the esotericism relates to physical processes. Why disrespect a traditional view of reality? Why disrespect or show contempt at all? What place is there for that kind of attitude in any discussion?

Just as it requires an electrical current to stimulate the neurotransmitters and neurohormones in your brain to "think a thought" so does this yogic theory relate how subtle currents which have an electro-magnetic relationship in the physical realm. In this type of practice, the hair yogically is treasured as being a source of holding the Naam as a seal over the mind to cleanse the kalpas.


Explaining something using incorrect pseudo-science, I frown upon…it’s the misuse of intellect that is the most derogatory thing a person can do. (Whether you do it, or you relay what the “yogis” have taught you…doesn’t matter to me…nonsense shall remain nonsense)
Studying esotericism, metaphysics or religions, such as these concepts which are found in Gurbani cannot possibly be a "derogatory use of the mind." I do not understand your extreme hostility to religion. And I do not accept your rudeness or put downs as being an acceptable way to discuss disagreements between Western scientific theory and any form of spiritual teaching, esotericism and/or metaphysics.

I do not agree with you, but I am not mocking you, inferring your position is worthless or trying to make you look like an idiot in scientific or logic based arguments. That's the kind of personal attack which are properly under category of "flaming" to extremely discourage any possible credibility, common sense respect or proper tolerance to a different view. And that is not acceptable on any discussion forum. As I said before, this very thread was based on a series of personal attacks I was receiving on this forum, and an attempt to answer objections. So to see this same thread again, opened up, not to discuss alternate views but to attack my personal credibility, to be accused of unsavory attitudes which essentially amount to cruelty, excluding others, egotism, arrogance and destroying a religious teaching are just beyond the pale. Simply to voice these kind of personal attacks in response to an opinion is very dismaying to me. Particularly when I am not even the originator of the opinion, but am simply sharing a belief in pre-existing teachings about yogic purpose of hair.

As I mentioned, I have been attacked on personal qualities time and again, been moderated, deleted, warned and am still flagged and never have I spoken in this tone, or with this degree of discouragement to others. Even to receiving in the past PMs of a deliberately insulting nature. Why it is tolerated against me repeatedly is just not acceptable. If you don't like the views, then disagree with the views. Why discredit the person? Why mock the person? Why flame the person? Why encourage others to belittle the person? Why make the person unwelcome or ashamed to express an opinion? Did I say something evil like "go and abuse children" where you could credibly say my opinion has the power to destroy a religion? where this degree of hostility would be understood in context?

I want to add, I have experienced too much, as a non-Punjabi and as a female of this exact same kind of mockery, shaming, and agressive attempts to ostracize that I'm really sick of it. Really sick of this kind of excuse for religion. This is just not the way to treat anyone in any realistic sense of expecting to keep them. And people wonder why they lose members to other religions. I am convinced that if I was a male Punjabi, no matter how outrageous my opinion or personal behavior, I would be shown reasonable degree of tolerance and respect and cordiality. I have not seen anyone else on this forum receive the same repeated degree of unwelcome or personal flaming, with exception of Sikhnamdhari. For some cultural reason females and non-Punjabis are just repeatedly shown disrespect. If this community doesn't start to address these problems, it will continue to decline. It is so unacceptable for a public forum. Just as it is unacceptable in a Gurdwara.

“As I said hair has the quality of being able to conduct electric current, this can be proved as scientific fact. As I did not say hair was the best known conductor of electricity, the basis of whether it is great, moderate or poor conductor is not the question.”

Again, another display of intellectual dishonesty. Everything known to man has the “quality” to conduct electric current (on some variation). I’m pretty sure you would not have said “it attracts lightning like a lightning rod” had you not thought it was a good conductor.
Brush up on your physics (and drop the “metaphysics”). I recommend learning the difference between static discharge and current.
Again, not a comment or citation to demonstrate a particular view, but is a personal insult couched in the form of ideological disagreement. It isn't about static electricity or conduction of current. It is about implying I am a dishonest and stupid person. How can this be an acceptable way to have a discussion?

When analyzing the way Gurmantra works, it has to be heard, it has to be vibrated. So I am discussing this in the only terminology I know. Is it worthless and invalid? Even if it was, how unacceptably rude to say such things on a public forum. I happen to believe these are a valid science not respected by Western disciplines.

It goes to show that hair is valuable. If you don't agree, why be insulting? And the only purpose I can think of is to destroy the credibility behind the disagreement. the only purpose is to flag the individual posting as a target worthy of ridicule.


“However, seeing the picture you posted and investigating the Andalusian long-mane horse, I must modify my understanding to acknowledge human beings are NOT the only creatures with long hair on the head, but are one of few creatures which grows extremely long hair on the head. But I add, this doesn't negate it's yogic function as part of the body-brain-kundalini energy center.”


Why hasn’t this negated what you said earlier? Your previous post preached exclusivity (so rationally, I have just negated what you have said about exclusivity).
My previous post preached nothing. I shared a viewpoint and I am entitled to have an opinion. If the debate centers on exclusivity of being able to practice Naam jappo with hair, then rest assured I did not create the debate. I am not responsible for the debate. Sikh religion traditionally values the hair. There exists a body of tradition regarding the yogic function of the hair, which I was sharing.

I might add, at the time I posted originally I belonged to a Jatha which was very traditional. And I was keeping in-line with beliefs and teachings that I personally did not invent or create in order to "exclude" some people who want to cut hair.

Since that time, I have pulled myself out of that Jatha for reasons which will not be discussed publically. I will not speak poorly of the Jatha, but it should be known I no longer consider myself to belong to it. Neither would I be considered by the Jatha to in any way represent it's views at any time. I no longer even defend some of those teachings, although I still agree on some points. I do agree as to yogic practice of keeping hair as a traditional form of pranayama Naam abhiyaas. But I no longer agree that this is the only practice within Sikh religion to obtain mukti. So as you have not even kept up with the change in my personal views, to launch a huge attack against me personally as being somehow responsible for "exclusivism" within Sikh religion is completely irresponsible. How can I, as a marginalized individual who is not even completely welcome in Gurdwara, possibly be a "preacher of exclusivism" to explain a background of yogic theory as relates to Naam jap and pranayama with keeping hair? This is just unrealistic blame and attack.

There is an "esoteric" science to keeping hair as a religious practice. There is also a valid "esoteric" science for shaving hair as a religious practice. If you will note, in nearly every world religion there is some form of monasticism where hair is either uncut or shaved. And there is a body of esoteric and yogic literature to support both practices. And if we delve into the Vaishnava Puranas and Bhagavata, bhakti doesn't even require this yogic practice of keeping hair or shaving hair, although some monastic orders within it do both.

“The nine openings are 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, 1 mouth, 1 rectum, 1 urethra.”

what about the umbilical cord? And the Vaginal orifice, which is separate from the urethra? (what a convenient way of leaving out these important openings)
The traditional teaching is based on a male body, hence no mention of vaginal opening. The umbilical cord relates to the nabhi, navel which is the seat of ras of the Naam jappo in occult science. Since it is a chakr center of energy which travels along the nadis it is not considered an opening of the subtle body.


ਨਾਭਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਖੋਜਤ ਤਤੁ ਲਹੈ ॥
naabh pavan ghar aasan baisai guramukh khojath thath lehai ||
The breath is seated in the home of the navel; the Gurmukh searches, and finds the essence of reality.
~SGGS Ji p. 945



ਨਾਭਿ ਕਮਲ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਉਪਜੇ ਬੇਦ ਪੜਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਕੰਠਿ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
naabh kamal thae brehamaa oupajae baedh parrehi mukh kanth savaar ||
From the lotus of Vishnu's navel, Brahma was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice.
~SGGS Ji p. 489




“Why thank you for saying by inference that my post was worthless.”

Oh don’t mention…twas my honour….I was initially torn whether or not I should have responded…now I’m rather grateful that I did.
See this is the kind of baiting and unnecessary rudeness which sours the respectful interchange of ideas on a discussion forum. It's in the realm of personal slurs and not even discussion.


“Even those with hair can hardly find the gate of liberation.”

That was not the point of my post…the entire point of my post was to show how you put a barrier/preconditions between man and god to satisfy yourself.
The Yogis also loved creating these barriers! Which is why Guru Nanak apposed them and their ways?

According to your models, sikhi is no longer a universal faith! YOU HAVE EFFECTIVELY DESTROYED IT! When you said:

“This is why you cannot have Guru's mantra as a sehajdhari. You may say the word. But it will not achieve the same effect. Without keeping hairs and japping Naam, you cannot achieve liberation in this life. “

(as if you know what “liberation” is)
Once this ball starts rolling the underlying principle that make up a faith are destroyed…of co{censored} do not admit to this…your best defence is to state that your “intentions” were clean (which they may or may not be true…I am no judge).

Listen and contemplate to the shabad that namjap ji posted (post #41).
Your hair can be long in spirit even if they are not long physically!
Do you really think I have the power to destroy Sikhi by expressing my opinions on a forum? Do you really think I have the power to "preach exclusiveness" by sharing a particular teaching about hair which is older than I am? Do you really think I am somehow your personal enemy because of different beliefs?

To be honest, the concept of "hairs long in spirit" is somewhat silly. Either keep long hairs to have this practice or don't. As I said, if you at all kept up with my posts, you would know that I did a radical about face from the traditional stance and have very nearly broken away from Sikh religion, for personal reasons which will remain undisclosed. So a personal attack of this nature comes at such a bad time, but really, would never have been appropriate, even if I had ever been some kind of spokesperson for the strictest of the strict viewpoint. Simply to agree with a strict interpretation is not an excuse to berate or abuse the person with the opinion.

I personally no longer even accept that Sikh religion is the only boat of mukti in the Kaliyug. I do accept the energy practice of keeping hair as a particular yogic discipline, and believe that was the original intent of the formation of householder yogis. But I do not believe this is the only practice required to achieve mukti. So I publically modify my previous views on this also, and have done so in previous posts.

Mukti, if you study outside the box of modern Sikh teaching, from Vedic sources is something much broader, much more humane, much more realistic. There are as many paths to mukti as there are individuals approaching God with their sincerity, their souls and hearts. To be honest, if this kind of rude unwelcome continues, I'm just going to stay on the Hindu discussion forums, where there is a degree of tolerance of diversity and spiritual maturity. Not that I think anyone will be sad about it.


May be Sinister ji ,I am in the same boat, the most hilarious moments come when people start teaching science from religion. You disagree with them rationally on their irrational ideology, they try to tear you apart; surprisingly they claim to be sailing in a spiritual boat. Are you with me. Just sharing with you, Gurbani has made me more rational" do not boast on field we dont have an inkling of what is it actually" lesson of His Infinity is understood only this way. When limitations are pointed, a lot of sludge of ego pops up. I am enjoying your posts as always.
How am I tearing Sinister ji apart by asking him not to be rude and mocking? Why am I full of sludge of ego to share a traditional opinion on purpose of hair? Why would anyone think this kind of flaming is hilarious or fun on a religious discussion forum? This kind of response and unwelcome is just pathetic.


~Bhul chak maaf
 
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