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Atheism Do You Believe In Waheguru

chazSingh

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I am reposting for chazSingh ji the one section where a single tuk is not used. spnadmin

I guess we are slowly but surely reaching to a point where we experience the below:

One Spirit Continually creating
The spirit within me is my true identity
It causes all to be done and protects me through all incidents
It fears nothing
Never experiences vengeance or Anger
Deathless it comes into form
In itself it has never been born
Flowing through the cycles of birth and death it moves by its own
This understanding shall come to you like a sweet blessing
In every moment continue in its remembrance
From the start this truth was true
Even now the truth is true
Nanak says ever shall be true.

I do not know what it is like to 'Be' 'Live' 'breath' all the above in my 'being'...but i'm enjoying finding out
 

spnadmin

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I guess we are slowly but surely reaching to a point where we experience the below:

One Spirit Continually creating
The spirit within me is my true identity
It causes all to be done and protects me through all incidents
It fears nothing
Never experiences vengeance or Anger
Deathless it comes into form
In itself it has never been born
Flowing through the cycles of birth and death it moves by its own
This understanding shall come to you like a sweet blessing
In every moment continue in its remembrance
From the start this truth was true
Even now the truth is true
Nanak says ever shall be true.

I do not know what it is like to 'Be' 'Live' 'breath' all the above in my 'being'...but i'm enjoying finding out
chazSingh ji

When you say, "we are slowly but surely reaching to a point where we experience the below" then you expressing thoughts on behalf of a lot of other people. Some may agree and others disagree. Better to speak as "I" rather than as "we" when talking about simran, meditation, spiritual journeys and using words like "slowly" "surely" so that it is clear you are talking about yourself.
 
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chazSingh

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spnadmin;185677

I think you over interpret my comments. Nothing I mentioned had to do with variety of experiences. I will repeat my thought: hukam is a settled matter. Hukam belongs to the creator; the creator is the giver of all gifts; there is no high nor low in Sikhi. These are not my opinions. Gurbani tells is this. My concern is that we should not compare experiences and find ourselves lower than the next person. That may cause spiritual despair. Yes of course we all experience differently, because our lives are different. What could be more obvious than observing that we change, and see things differently when we do? Seeing things differently and experiencing things differently does not change Hukam

I don't disagree with the above view on Hukam...i wasn't implying anything else...and i don't think i implied that hukam could make someone higher or lower, good or bad?

Do you still have the post on record...would be good if you can post to me privately and i can add the shabads properly.

By continued public discussion of spiritual experiences, which let us agree will all be different, a person is bringing something private to a social platform which a forum is. That is my opinion.
I only write about practical experience, not any kind of mystical experiences...so i don't see how practical experience is something to be so private about....

A forum about cars is filled with peoples practical experiences of fixing cars...

i don't understand from what i wrote that i shared any spiritual experiences? maybe you can post me privately with the quotes?


I have asked you to clarify somethings you mentioned earlier. And don't see that you have done that. Maybe you will today.
You threw some questions in the air, and i thought i tried to answer them?
if you let me know which questions you think weren't answered i can maybe look to add something more...with full shabads this time :)
 

chazSingh

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chazSingh ji

When you say, "we are slowly but surely reaching to a point where we experience the below" then you expressing thoughts on behalf of a lot of other people. Some may agree and others disagree. Better to speak as "I" rather than as "we" when talking about simran, meditation, spiritual journeys and using words like "slowly" "surely" so that it is clear you are talking about yourself.
Sorry Ji,

you asked me ""What are we doing when we experience "the opposite?"

And i replied "i guess we'll .... experience what the mool manter describes"

you asked in a plural sense, and i continued in that sense...thats all ji :)
 

spnadmin

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chazSingh ji

My questions were:

What does "lost" mean and how does "return back" work?

What is "true self?"

How do we know more and appreciate more by experiencing "the opposite?"

What are we doing when we experience "the opposite?"

I requested that you answer them in your own words. Instead you posted tuks. In your own words means, how do you respond to this? If you post complete shabads as answers, that really does not work either. How do they answer the questions, in your own words? Otherwise a conversation turns into a copy and paste session.
 

ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

To express "TRUE SELF" is the most difficult task.

Expression is meditation.

Its expression after realisation, so difficult to reach till that point.

For eg

How difficult it could have been for Newton to express Gravity to others

and what to say, no one accepts, just observe.

To establish expression, its like unstruck vocal chord.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

One don't know when fairy tails will be reality,
oil reserves on this earth will be over,
and
people fond of flying will genetically enlarge animals and tame them and use them as flying source.
Genetic engineering research is still on.

Earlier flying was fairy tale to many, till one realize it as truth of life.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

chazSingh

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SPNAdmin Ji,

You asked "How do we know more and appreciate more by experiencing "the opposite?"

some thoughts
If we were born in Light, and darkness didn't exist...would we question the existence of light ... we would just continue our lives without questioning...no need to question...
then all of a sudden we walk into darkness...our whole world is turned upside down...

Now we ask "what is this effect?" we then study, experiment, and go on a journey to discover...like man did.

another example...

A T.V series called 'Secret Millionaire" places a rich person into deprived societies/circumstances. through experiencing the 'opposite' to that they are used to even for a brief moment in a persons life has a consciousness expanding effect.

in one episode, a man said something along the lines of "all i've ever done is set up a few direct debits to some charities and never spent a second more thinking about it...i've now looked into peoples eyes, shared tears, the heart ache, experienced the difficulties...but now i've been able to help, give my time, and the see the effects that this has on people...i feel uplifted in ways i could never imagine, it's addictive...i feel alive for the first time"...

one simple experience of the opposite changed a mans outlook and appreciation of what he had, and what he is capable of as a human being...consciousness has expanded :)

Just a couple of example of millions of possibilities.
 

ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

There is only "One" or "Ek"

Ek hi DHUN

Only "One" wave form

"One" has "Two" Positive" and "Negative"

And the same one takes many forms "OAM KAAR"

Its not just ikon, its "TRUE NATURE" a complete scientific truth not yet proved.

Mind Imagines that "ONE" Wave Form "ASTRAL" or "FAIRIES"

Tongue Express that "ONE" Wave Form SUBTLE

Eyes visualise that "ONE" wave form SUBTLE

Touch Sense feels the "ONE" wave form PHYSICAL

Iron one was able to touch in metal and liquid and gas form

Further gas was heated one can watch the Plasma though its same Iron

Further beyond light its "ONE" never born nor die

Few One can

realize world mentally,

some visibly,

some vocally,

others only physically.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

Luckysingh

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You asked "How do we know more and appreciate more by experiencing "the opposite?"
Only by experiencing the two opposites of dark/light, happy/sad, sukh/dukh..etc.. can we appreciate and understand exactly what we are and how our mind's mood controls us.
Only once you understand this can you start conquering your mind and the duality that we live in which is mostly dictated by the Ego.
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Only by experiencing the two opposites of dark/light, happy/sad, sukh/dukh..etc.. can we appreciate and understand exactly what we are and how our mind's mood controls us.
Only once you understand this can you start conquering your mind and the duality that we live in which is mostly dictated by the Ego.
You can only truly learn to love everyone as ONE, once you realize how you really feel deep inside, knowing that you hurt someone else, and when you realize that feeling of pain you have deep inside is sometimes worse than the pain you actually inflicted on the other person.

For example, in anger I have said something to my Mother when I was young. I really didn't mean it and it was spontaneous and in a very heated moment, and I was barely a teenager. My Mother has forgotten about it LONG ago, knowing that I never meant it at all. I have never forgotten it. I immediately felt the guilt and pain when I realized what I said was hurtful. And no matter how many times I have said sorry, and she said that it was long forgotten, it still haunts me to this day and I still feel so very badly about it. That experience makes me think before I do anything like that anyone else at all.

We can only learn lessons like the above example, through duality. I guess to sum it up nicely I would say: The only way to truly understand ONEness is through duality.
 

spnadmin

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Only by experiencing the two opposites of dark/light, happy/sad, sukh/dukh..etc.. can we appreciate and understand exactly what we are and how our mind's mood controls us.
Only once you understand this can you start conquering your mind and the duality that we live in which is mostly dictated by the Ego.
How can you be certain that this is the only way?
 

findingmyway

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What's the point of simran if it is followed by rudeness or slander, lust or greed. Meditation and simran have to be approached carefully as many times I have seen it lead to conceit and a superiority complex (I am not directing this anyone in particular as I don't know anyone here personally, I am speaking from my own observations in the offline world). Many around me who are very disciplined at "simran" look down on others as they are not showing the same "discipline". For some meditation can be helpful but for many it becomes a counterproductive, ego-fuelling process. The constant reiteration of the same sentiments continually repeating how marvellous I am as look what I have achieved adds to this image. It is not a necessary topic for every single conversation.
 
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Luckysingh

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How can you be certain that this is the only way?
Originally Posted by Luckysingh View Post
Only by experiencing the two opposites of dark/light, happy/sad, sukh/dukh..etc.. can we appreciate and understand exactly what we are and how our mind's mood controls us.
Only once you understand this can you start conquering your mind and the duality that we live in which is mostly dictated by the Ego.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/atheism/40690-do-you-believe-in-waheguru-29.html
I'm not certain that it's the only way but I'm not certain of any other way !!
Unless you had something in mind that I haven't realized !!

When we are talking about opposites or the extreme ends of the spectrum, then whatever it be whether light/dark, happy/sad..such/dukh..etc.. as mentioned above, - Then you will find that these are ALL relative to each other. One cannot understand light as light unless they have experienced the opposite of dark.

Now, what is important is that this is still all play of our mind and ego that wants to have One experience relative to it's very opposite.
That's why I would say that it is a another game of the duality that we are in.
However, the lord God Akaal Purakh is not found too easily if we don't realize this, because he is not in this duality like us.
He is simply the TRUTH, but this truth is NOT relative to any false, because in his creation there is no false (or opposite of true)

He was the truth, still is the truth and will forever be the very Truth.
 
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Aug 29, 2010
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As I have understood the word Wah.GuROO in Gurbanee is a reference for the
entity GuR JoTi so in this context there is no question of not believing in Wah.GuROO.

But this word is certainly not being refered as NAAM .

One must certainly say GuROO as Wah .GuROO for it as a JoTi is reveaing
its NAAMu/NAAM

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

chazSingh

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What's the point of simran if it is followed by rudeness or slander, lust or greed. Meditation and simran have to be approached carefully as many times I have seen it lead to conceit and a superiority complex (I am not directing this anyone in particular as I don't know anyone here personally, I am speaking from my own observations in the offline world). Many around me who are very disciplined at "simran" look down on others as they are not showing the same "discipline". For some meditation can be helpful but for many it becomes a counterproductive, ego-fuelling process. The constant reiteration of the same sentiments continually repeating how marvellous I am as look what I have achieved adds to this image. It is not a necessary topic for every single conversation.
Everything you say is true to a point.

What's the point of simran if it is followed by rudeness or slander, lust or greed
I agree, but Simran is the medicine...i don't think that Simran will magically overnight diminish ones Anger, Lust, Greed, Ego...it takes time, patience, effort, and surrendering so that ego slowly evaporates...i've personally fallen at many hurdles :(
But I am grateful to the God that puts me in a difficult situation after Simran, at least i can see how much anger, hate, ego, lust etc manifests within me
Hopefully the Simran allows me to be 'Aware' of the negative manifestation so that i can work to remove it. Otherwise i get lost in the actions, and all is lost.

Meditation and simran have to be approached carefully as many times I have seen it lead to conceit and a superiority complex
I agree, these are all hurdles we must overcome and such a superiority complex can result from any action, Seva, charity, daily work, running a business etc. Bani tells me to battle with the mind 24/7

The constant reiteration of the same sentiments continually repeating how marvellous I am as look what I have achieved adds to this image.

For me personally i have to keep meditating on shabad like this, to try an counter the feelings of Ego that arise...:
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=45

Age after age, You are the One. Forever and ever, You are the One. You never change, O Creator Lord.
Everything happens according to Your Will. You Yourself accomplish all that occurs
You Yourself created the entire universe, and having fashioned it, You Yourself shall destroy it all.
Servant Nanak sings the Glorious Praises of the Dear Creator, the Knower of all

He Himself accomplishes all that occurs...i do nothing...:

What can I say? I am just a worm.
No one has found Your beginning or Your end, O Lord
Those who serve You, Lord,
obtain the greatest peace; their souls are so divine
Full shabad: http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4171

 

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