Dasam Granth - Fascinating Video Download

hello,

if you could recommend any other videos in english it would be much appreciated as my punjabi is nowhere near up to scratch! i am very interested in this topic. thankyou

regards

sikh.
 
Sikh78910 ,
I just watched 7 minutes of the 1 hour video, this is an interview with a woman.
I stopped watching it now as i realize its a total waste of time when she said that Dasam granth does not conform to sikh philosophy and beliefs.

Dasam Granth is the bani of Guru Gobind Singh ji, containing wonderful praises of the Lord in Jaap Sahib, Akaal Ustat, containing the history of all the 24 avtars, and the stories of ramayana and mahabharta, so we can listen and be educated about it, gain inspiration and strength, and so that we dont have to go anywhere else to know this. It contains the traits of some unfaithful women, so that the weak men know the qualities and make themself strong. It contains the knowledge of weapons used for warfare, by reciting which knowledge of all weapons are known. Contains compositions like Chaan di Vaar, reciting which the five theives are destroyed through the power of the Lord.

And she is a doubter of this. What can you do? nothing. It is all the play of the immortal Lord in all.
 
ok naam jap,

i agree that SOME of the dassam granth may have been written by guru gobind singh ji- maybeee. read this thread though..

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/5797-explain-this-in-dasam-granth.html

Before our last guru passed away, he declared GGSJ to be our LAST, ONLY and everlasting guru. guru meaning teacher- sikh meaning student.

If the gurus where all the people of their time needed to learn about sikhi, providing them with all the answers they felt that they could impart to the world, then who is anyone, (and this is not a direct attack or anything of the sort with no offence meant) realistically to claim that any other text is of ANY IMPORTANCE or can be AT ALL TRUSTED? we have been under hindu rule for sooo many years, do you honestly believe that any text which is not safeguarded with life as well as spirit- (the guru granth sahib is known to embody the spirits of the ten gurus as decalred by Guru Gobind Singh Ji before his demise) is not going to be altered or sabotaged at ALL? if our sacred holy shrine in Amritsar can be bombed before our very eyes, pleasee do not see this as an at all impossible task for the evil hindu governments of the past and perhaps even present.

just remeber it is not the Dassam Granth or Rehat Maryada that holds the answers, it is our living guru- the holy Guru Granth Sahib Ji. if ITS teachings ALONE are not followed or held in the highest of regard, then there is no point in anyone calling themselves sikhs. I know that i will only take heed to One text that is the very embodiment of Truth, Honesty, virtue and our gateway to Sachkhand, and that is GGSJ.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
 
i can not have "full" faith on something that our guru did not tell us to follow

Sabh sikhan Ko Hukam Hai, Guru Manyo Granth!

As i said, some parts may have been added afterwards such as the....vulgar section but Guru Ji no longer would have control on what would be added after his death. So my faith is compromised for now.Each to his own?
 
SSI Canada

This is article which is in english on dasam granth

SSI Canada

this is another one

Naam Jaap this is what is wrong with our people today. They are narrowminded and dont accept the facts. They believe only what there baba has told them. And i can say the same for you.

why believe a granth which tells you that, aapne ishtaree, bhaman nu thaan karooo. it bhraman granth full of bhraman reets.
 

drkhalsa

SPNer
why believe a granth which tells you that, aapne ishtaree, bhaman nu thaan karooo. it bhraman granth full of bhraman reets.
Dear Akaali Ji

Please give the reference page /line from Dasam Granth with says one Should Give their women to Brahmin( as claimed by you or the baba you refer) I shall be thankful

And if you yourself dont know then give me the name of BABA you followed to reach this conclusion


Thanks


Jatinder Singh
 
Gurfateh

Bhai Sahib,

SSI Canada

over here is mistake is been done that is mixing 16 Charitar with 21st,22nd and 23rd.

There name of Lady is Ladhiya overtly and Bhajiiya(das will conform the names)in overt and covert.So more homework is needed to prove that Prostitute at all was anup Kaur.And in either case Lord or King was Guru at all.


Then coming to second phase.

Das had read by mercy of Akal.

SSI Canada

If Akal permists Das will explain.But within the Example,we could see that Qazis,Kuran being read and errotic being done.In the same way such stories are there when Murder is been done and it is proved that Lord Shiva has made the blessing.

Inpresent days Missiory also write some stories with a bit implicit termonology and telling the sexual acts of Deardars they hate the most.

Had they been more explicit then mnay people will stop going To Deras.

Father used way to describe the falsehood benith the apprant pius Hindu or Muslims holy men.Telling truth as it is is not prevert.

And auther has not read Kama Sutra or Kashmiri Kok Shastra.If you want simple kiss is described over there in very erottic way.Over here term earning Bhoga or eraning utilisation is far more controled then errotica.

By the way is Errotica anti Gurmat?So at that time,did we have top again rely upon Brahmin for all sex realted cases?

so far Brahmins makes sex a tabbo and talk about it also a tabbo in upper castes(they were wealthy and so good soruce of fund for Brahmins).So it is there in upper castes.But poor lower castes(even jaats are nearer to lower caste if they live in village and are poor).They did not have any such restriction within themselves.

But they could not talk about upper castes.Some Jaats anyway moved towards Islam and were Sakhi Sarvars followers.Did Guru approve that?Rather Qazi and Jaat's wife episode was writtan so that Jaats should stay away from Qazis.

Das will write brife of whole stories when getting a time perhaps in feburary and motto behind them.Taking only one or two lines and not seeing the whole stroy can lead to complex understanding and das appriciates the concerns.

Das is moving the way Marxist moved against Tzar and Risputin in Propoganda warfare against haves.And the way Hebronal church did interpetaion of Old Textment wide New Testments.

Apporach will be differant then Arya Samajist Apporach.Swami Daya Nanda used Vedas to prove Puranas wrong.Saem approach Ex Arya Samaji S.Bhag Singh Ji of Amabala have used.(old name Bhagmal).

He might have had anti Sikhs feeling during Arya Samaji time and,to make great defence to slander over Gurmat,He chose to discard some Bani of Tenth Master.To mkae defence further stronger,S. Gurbax Singh Ji of Kala Afghana have discarded all Basni of Tenth Master.

They are OK with thier defence.Das anyway thinks that Gurmat has no weakness,so there is no need for defence.We are rather offencive to others.Best porrf are Triya Charitars.

and if you are intersted to know aboout how psedo Brahmin is respected read Charitar 266 and you will get to know.Anti Dasham Granth people qoute only couples of lines from there where ,they thinik that intoxicants are been encouraged.

They forget that it is more a dialoge between Brahmin and Princess,who refuses to bow to anystone and says.

In Life,In Water,in Land,in all forms,in all Lords of Land.In Sun,in Soon,In Sky,Where serach/see with full concentration of mind,there only.In Fire,in Air also,in the base of earth,That can not be explained/that does not go anywhere.In prevades in all,The Supreme Lord is not in any Stone.

and further logics like if Brahmin can make other rich by occult then why is he not himself rich?

Brahmin is looted from his wealt ahnd his wealth is given to othewr Brahmin and then he is asked that,if by donating to Brahmins,one gets rich then why he is still are popuper and crying when his wealth is gine to other Brahmins?

He tells that this princess is taking drugs(when logic fails it is told that person with logic is mad or drug addict so that people should not follow the same.This propogand ware fare).she says that Brahmin who does not take Drugs then how is still a such fool.Bhang or drug etc. takers are better tyhen Idolating Brahmins.

So far and so forth.

Das is sorry but there is differance in preception of Gurmat,which das has as absolute and what Kala Afghana Sahib think as relative.Realted to interpetaion of Guru Granth Sahib as they try to interpret.

Akal is in evil also,does evil also.So evil is also not Bad.and Akal vide any manifestation can desribe evil to non evil people,to let us have knowledge of this Form of Akal also.Akal has no restrictions.And knowing Akal and learing morew about the same then clsoing our Eyes is Gurmat.

If our faith is strong then no one can shaken it.If it is weak then people will make wrong interpetasion of Guru Granth Sahib Ji also and weak faith guys will leave Gurmat and be non belivers.Communsts in Punjab by this way left Arya Samaj and mnay hindutva guys are nonn belivers as Vedas were read with fears.

In west also,There are large numbers of non belivers with Christain decent.Same stroy there due to lutharanian influnce.

All in hand of Akal but das will try to protect as much as possible from such influnce,but all control is in Akals 'hand'.Das is nothing at all.
 
yes I read some of that thread, its using sexual vocuablry to illustrate the qualities of decietful woman, and my faith is not broken and why should it be? Guru ji is telling me; be careful my sikh be careful of such women.
with all due respect naam jaap, i respect your beliefs but would the gurus REALLY have included sexual vocabulary which would be read in front of CHILDREN in the sangat? please people need to wake up n face facts.

I Personally, refuse to believe along with a few other people on this site, that the gurus would have done so. the use of words such as kaam, maybe, but sexual imagery? i dnt think a five year old wants to hear stuf like that. a normal adult or even teen would be able to figure it all out just by reading the word kaam....
 
Side Note: We must know that the writer when referring to the king near Satluj river, is directing the talk towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is further made clear when it says that followers from all over the places came and received boons. Not only that, it also talks about the king being young and a religious leader. There should be no doubt that it is directed towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chariter 16
Dohra
Near the Satluj River, a king lived happily. A prostitute arrived in the city to make money. 1.
Investigation: Anandpur was newly established and was under control of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhs mostly lived there so it is hard to believe that a prostitute would have customers in Anandpur Sahib. Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Arill
Everyone knew her as Shujeeya but her lovers referred to her as Ludeeya. Every man who saw her, became attracted to her and received pleasure in the heart. 2.
Investigation: Who were her lovers? Were they Sikhs? The writer fails to make it clear. Did the Sikhs also become attracted to her and visited her? Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Dohra
She was attracted towards the king but she could not convince him. She thought about ideas to meet the king. 3.
(She thought) He doesn’t for love me so what should be done? He doesn’t come to my house and neither does he call me to his house). 4.
Some way has to be found to meet him fast. She thought that maybe he could be won over through jantars and mantars. 5.
She was exhausted trying jantars and mnatars but he king didn’t visit her. Then she plotted a ploy to allure the king. 6.
She dressed in orange clothing which the Yogis wear and bowed to the king when entering the king’s court. 7.
Investigation: Did the prostitute not know where she was going? Did she think that the Guru would fall for her? Is this not an attack on Guru Sahib? Is this not questioning the character of Guru Sahib? Then the writer says that she tries jantars and mantars. Maybe the writer didn’t know but Gurmat doesn’t agree to performing mantars. It is strictly against Gurmat. The writer again fails to mention that mantars are against Gurmat. Also Guru Ji was so unaware that he could not tell the difference between a woman dressed as a yogi and a man dressed as a yogi? Is this not an attack on the greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
Arill
Seeing the Yogi, the king was impressed internally and thought about receiving some mantars from the yogi. King called a messenger, told him what to say and sent him to the Yogi (prostitute) so he the king could learn the skill of mantars. 8.
Investigation: Once again, the writer makes Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a king searching for mantars. Someone could say that the mantars here don’t mean the magic spells but it means consultation or virtues. Even if that point is accepted, it still doesn’t make it correct as there is no reason to learn virtues from a yogi or have consultation with yogis on Panthic or even personal matters. Guru is the one who teaches others, not the other way around. However, the mantars here mean magic spells. This will be proven later in the chariter. Is this not slandering Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Could someone promoting this garbage be considered a Sikh of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Is there any shame left?
Chaupai
King’s servant went to the Yogi. Whatever the king had said, the servant repeated to the Yogi. Servant asked the Yogi to give some mantars to the king and to please complete this task for his boss (king). 9.
Investigation: So Guru was sending his servants to make appointments to learn mantars from yogis? Why was Guru Sahib so desperate to learn mantars when they are not even as per Gurmat? Guru Sahib said something and did something?
Dohra
The yogi opened his/her eyes after 3 hours and told the servant to bring the king to her/his house if the king wanted to learn virtues. 10.
Bring him to me at midnight. With Gorakh’s blessing, the king will not go back empty handed. 11.
Investigation: Why did the yogi have her/his eyes closed for 3 hours? Closing eyes is also against Gurmat. Gurbani calls it hypocrisy and the writer again fails to mention this. The writer then says with Gorakh’s blessings; here Gorakh means Gorakh Naath the yogi. Gurmat only says to worship Akaal and look for help from Akaal. Not some deities or humans or saints, no matter how great they are. This is evidenced in the concept of ‘Pooja Akaal Kee’ meaning worship of God. God is worshipped by following Gurbani. Gorakh Naath was the founder of the yogi sect of Hinduism. Was Gorakh Nath greater than Guru Nanak that the 10th Nanak had to go to a follower of Gorakh to learn virtues? Guru Nanak proved the path of yogis wrong as evidenced in ‘Sidh Gost’ written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Tria Chariter promoters say that those questioning Tria Chariters are questioning Guru and Gurbani. After reading this verse, it should clear on who is questioning Guru and Gurbani.
Chaupai
The servant relayed the message back to the king and woke him up at midnight. He took the king to the yogi’s house. Upon seeing the king, the yogi felt great pleasure. 12.
Investigation: Who cares if the yogi felt pleasure or not. What does it have to do with Gurmat?
Dohra
Yogi asked the king to send all the people away from the site and call for sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 13.
The king did as asked and told the people to go away. He also received the sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 14.
Then the king sent all of his people away and stayed there pleasurably to learn the mantar. 15.
Investigation: What does liquor have to do with virtues and what do others items have to do with learning virtues? Items such as wick lamps, sandalwood, rice, flowers, etc. are used in learning mantars (magic spells) and not when learning virtues. Therefore, it should be clear that the mantars here mean magic spells which are against fundamentals of Gurmat. Once again the writer tries to make Guru Gobind Singh Ji look like a person who doesn’t know much about his surroundings. This is a direct attack on Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chaupai
When the king was alone, the yogi said that I will show you magic now and will teach you the mantar later. 16.
Investigation: Gurmat also doesn’t accept showing off of magic powers. Once again, the writer fails to mention that this is against Gurmat.
Dohra
From male, I will become a female, and then I will become a male again. Being a male, I will teach you mantar and being a female, I will have sex with you. 17.
Investigation: There should be no confusion here as this is not magic but a fraud. There is nothing special in looking like a woman and then looking like a man. Only a confused person would want to look like the opposite gender. Example, those who shave hair are usually confused as they want to cut hair and look more like females than males.
King Said:
The male who gives mantar is like a father and woman who gives mantar is like a mother. They are to be served and are not be had sexual intercourse with. 18.
Investigation: These statements which seem like the writer is promoting Gurmat are just sugar-coating on poison. Don’t be fooled by these.
Arill
Guru has to be served for mamy years and then after trying hard, the mantar has to be received. Therefore, it is proper to bow to Guru. Hey witty! Then tell me why should sex be had with him/her? 19.
Investigation: So suddenly the yogi becomes Guru of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Where are the brains of promoters of this slandering of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Do these people have mental problems? Is their mission to promote these yogis or other anti-Gurmat paths as better than the path of Guru Nanak? Who are the real slanderers of Guru? Promoters of such stories or the ones who oppose these?
Chaupai
Then the yogi said that I performed his clever act to meet you. Now have sex with me my beloved. Now get on my bed. 20.
Investigation: Did the woman think that Guru Sahib was so easily going to get on her bed and have sex with her?
Dohra
My body has been thirsting to meet you and my body parts have become weak. Hey beloved! Come and accommodate yourself on my bed and make love with me today. 21.
If you try to run away then I will get you caught as a thief and if you let me go, I will speak foul to you. Otherwise, have sex with me without a thought. 22.
When a woman, filled with lust, comes to the one who she loves and if the loved one lets her go without fulfilling her desire, that person shall be thrown in deep hell. 23.
If a woman’s body is filled with lust but a man refuses to fulfill her desires, he should be thrown into the deep pit of hell. 24.
Investigation: So people of Anandpur had the character of Guru Sahib in question that they would believe a prostitute and accept Guru Ji as a thief? Guru Ji wasn’t like a lot of the Gurudwara committee members or granthis who steal money from Gurudwaras. Did the prostitute seriously think that her threats and tactics were going to work? What are the threats of being thrown in hell to Guru? Even Sikhs don’t care about hell or heaven so then why would Guru believe in it? Gurmat rejects the hells and heavens after death. Writer again fails to preach Gurmat and keeps promoting Sikhs and their Guru as followers of Hindu philosophy.
Arill
Creator has given me birth in the house of a prostitute. I took the appearance of a Yogi to meet you. Now quickly place yourself on my bed. I will live as your slave. Don’t make me more anxious. 25.
Investigation: So is it Guru’s fault that she is born in a prostitute’s house? She didn’t have to be a prostitute. What is the purpose of writing that the appearance of yogi was only taken to meet the king? Also Guru Sahib didn’t look for slaves. Guru Sahib freed the people from slavery; not made them slaves.
Dohra
So what if you are smart and are young adult. I have been pierced by separation from you so don’t leave my desire unfilled. 26.
Investigation: It looks like the woman is lecturing Guru on what to do rather than Guru Sahib lecturing her on what is right and what is wrong.
Arill
Don’t waste the time anymore. I am under control of lust. I am drowned in lust up to my head. Don’t let me off with sexual intercourse and don’t have ego due to my desire like black clouded night. 27.
People come to you from all over the places and receive the boons which they wish for. What wrong have I done that I can not have you? I will be the slave of your slaves. Proceed to my bed. 28.
The king said that he came to learn mantars and that she played this act. Why should I have sexual intercourse with you? I am really scared of falling from my faith. 29.
Investigation: Then the prostitute accuses Guru Sahib of having ego because he didn’t agree to her wishes according to the story. Is it ego to keep moral code of conduct and refuse to participate it morally corrupt acts? So Guru Sahib refused to have sex because of fear of falling from faith and nothing to do with morals and shame? If Guru Sahib wasn’t the Guru of Sikhs, he would have agreed to the prostitute and participated in sexual activity? How low are the Tria Chariter promoters going to fall morally? Don’t these people fear God when they slander Guru by linking such garbage to Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
That woman tried persuasion through many ways. She tried many opinions and persuasions. She tried many jantars and mantars. However, she could not persuade the king into her hands. 30.
Investigation: Mantars don’t work on Gursikhs so forget about trying them on Guru. Shows the lack of knowledge the writer has.
Arill
She went into the veranda and started shouting “thief” “thief”. She tried to scare the king to meet him. She came back to him and said to listen to her. She said that the king can either have sex with her or she will get him tied up. 31.
Hearing “thief” “thief”, people came to the location. Woman told the people that she started talking while in her sleep. When the people were gone, she held the hand of the king. She told the king to have sexual intercourse with or her face being tied up. 32.
Investigation: It says the king’s hand was held by her. Didn’t the king snap his hand away from her? Guru Sahib didn’t mind prostitutes holding his hand? Isn’t this an attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Dohra
Then the king thought in his mind that the concept of mantars is to put on an act and run away. 33.
If I run, I lose honor. If I have sexual intercourse, I fall from religion. Due to both of these issues, the situation has become very hard to handle. May God protect me now. 34.
Then king thought that if a son is born, he will become a pimp and if a daughter is born, she will be a prostitute. By having sexual intercourse, religion is lost and by running, I will be tied up. 35.
Investigation: Does the verse talking about having pimp or prostitute as child according to Gurmat? Does this mean Guru Sahib would have fulfilled her wish had it not been the fear of child being born as prostitute or pimp? Is this not a direct attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
King said, “hey beloved! Listen to me. I was just checking you devotion towards me. Whoever finds a beautiful woman like you and lets her go, is a big imbecile. 36.
Investigation: The woman keeps calling Guru Sahib as beloved in a *******ed way and Guru Sahib doesn’t say a word to stop her? How low the chariter promoters going to go to link this garbage to Guru Sahib? Would Guru Sahib ever say that the one who lets go of a beautiful woman is an idiot? When are these enemies of Guru and Guru’s Panth going to stop attacking Guru and Gurmat?
Dohra
If a beautiful woman like you is received, anyone who thinks about forsaking her, his having birth is shameful. 37.
Get a large amount of poppy husk, cannabis, and opium quickly. Being happy from the heart, feed me cannabis. 38.
You drink a lot of liquor and feed me cannabis. I will have sexual intercourse with you for 12 hours. 39.
Investigation: So all those who follow Gurmat had no point in being born? Is this not a direct attack on Gurmat? Is this what the naked legs ones read and promote as Gurmat? Would Guru Sahib ever order drugs? Would Guru Sahib ever tell a woman who doesn’t belong to him that he would have sex with her for 12 hours? Are these stories the reasons why they are often caught in sex scandals or rapes? Can these people ever be considered Sikhs? According to the rehat maryada, they can not be. This is the reason why they reject the rehat maryada and make their own maraydas. Who are the real enemies of Guru? Those who promote garbage like this or the ones who oppose it?
Chaupai
Without knowing, she became joyful after listening to these words. She could not tell between fact and falseness. Being really happy in the heart, she ordered the drugs the king had ordered. 40.
Investigation: The writer seems to have a grudge against women. Maybe his wife ran away or performed one the tricks on someone else. What is so great about fooling women? Is this Gurmat?
Dohra
Poppy husk, cannabis, opium and deep grinded cannabis and liquor prepared seven times were brought. 41.
Investigation: Isn’t this verse promoting drugs? Not once have drugs been denounced in the chariter. Would Guru Sahib not say how bad drugs are? Shows that this isn’t work of Guru Sahib.
Arill
Then the king thought in the mind. Today I will not have sex with her. This is the wisdom from the mantar. I will make her really high on drugs and lie her down on the bed and will run away saving my religion. I will give her 60 coins before going. 42.
Investigation: What did the king mean by not today? King was planning to indulge in sexual activity some other time? What were the 60 coins going to be given for? Was the prostitute a great preacher of Gurmat? Did she invent a special device to help people succeed in day to day activities? Does it mean it is good to give prostitutes money and make them happy? How low are the Panth enemies going to go to promote this garbage? Can these people ever be called Sikhs?
Dohra
She does not understand love. She only cares about money. Are scorpions, snakes and prostitutes ever friends of anyone? 43.
Increasing pleasure, the king made her drink a lot of liquor and to run away, he made her lofty and got her to sleep on the bed. 44.
The king fed her liquor with his own hands and through this act, drugged her up and made her sleep on the bed. 45.
Investigation: So Guru Sahib filled glasses of liquor with his own hands and got her to drink it with his own hands? Can anyone ever think of Guru Sahib filling glasses of liquor and putting them to the mouth of a woman? Is this Gurmat?
Arill
King filled glasses and fed her with his hands. He showed a lot of love towards the prostitute. When she got high and went to sleep, the king placed 60 coins there and ran away. 46.
If a woman loves you, do not love her. If she becomes intoxicated in you sweetness, do not ruin yourself in her sweetness. If you can not understand the feelings of a woman, make sure she doesn’t know the thought of your heart. 47.
Investigation: Why are the same lines being repeated again and again? It seems like the writer was also under influence of drugs while composing this garbage. When he says not to love woman, which woman is he talking about? Does it include the wife? Is it doesn’t then why isn’t it made clear? If it does include the wife, then how can 2 bodies function as one if there is no trust? Is this Gurmat philosophy?
Dohra
Making the woman unconscious (with drugs) and giving her 60 coins, the king ran away. He reached home and no one saw him coming. 48.
Investigation: So the king did indeed run away? If no one saw him coming home, then how did the writer know? The writer is none other than poet Raam. Is poet Raam the Guru of these chariter promoters? Those who do accept that these are writings of poets and say these are accepted writings, do they even know what Gurmat is? Also, who accepted these writings? Is mahant narainu and company or is it is children of narainu (also known as modern mahants)? So if someone wanted to make money, just act as a prostitute and try to lure Guru of Sikhs. Those who sell their souls to RSS are no better than prostitutes like Shujeeya.
Arill
Then the king came home and made a vow that he saved his faith this time with some good tricks. He vowed that he would now spread the greatness of his God throughout many countries and states. He also vowed not to look at other women. 49.
Investigation: Does this verse mean Guru Sahib wasn’t telling people about God or spreading greatness of God before? Does this mean Guru Sahib used to check out women before this incidence? How low are the chariter promoters going to get? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left?
Dohra
The lesson from that day is in my heart. Since that day, I have not been looking at other women. 50.
Investigation: Once again, does this mean Guru Sahib used to look at women in a sexual way before this incidence? How low are the promoters of such garbage going to go? D they fear God or Guru? Do they have no shame insulting Guru who sacrificed everything for them? Do they have no shame defaming the Guru, due to whom they have huge bellies and make a living? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left? Will anyone take action? If you care and love Guru, then spread this article to everyone you know. Otherwise, you can join the chariter promoters and become an enemy of Guru. So it is up to you to decide on which side to take. Which one will you take? Will you spread this article to everyone you know who claims to be a Sikh?

Some lines such as “sandalwood, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor was brought” are repeated again and again. This shows that the writer wasn’t in the right state of mind when writing these chariters. This turns out to be more of a male chariter rather than a female chariter. Also, not to forget, in the end, the prostitute wins as her motive to collect money was also fulfilled. This is a direct attack towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No Sikh of Guru Nanak will tolerate this and can never accept this litter as Gurbani.

Chariter 16 translation and analysis completed!

Please kindly forgive any mistakes and provide any suggestions.

Harmanjit Singh
 
Side Note: We must know that the writer when referring to the king near Satluj river, is directing the talk towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is further made clear when it says that followers from all over the places came and received boons. Not only that, it also talks about the king being young and a religious leader. There should be no doubt that it is directed towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chariter 16
Dohra
Near the Satluj River, a king lived happily. A prostitute arrived in the city to make money. 1.
Investigation: Anandpur was newly established and was under control of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhs mostly lived there so it is hard to believe that a prostitute would have customers in Anandpur Sahib. Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Arill
Everyone knew her as Shujeeya but her lovers referred to her as Ludeeya. Every man who saw her, became attracted to her and received pleasure in the heart. 2.
Investigation: Who were her lovers? Were they Sikhs? The writer fails to make it clear. Did the Sikhs also become attracted to her and visited her? Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Dohra
She was attracted towards the king but she could not convince him. She thought about ideas to meet the king. 3.
(She thought) He doesn’t for love me so what should be done? He doesn’t come to my house and neither does he call me to his house). 4.
Some way has to be found to meet him fast. She thought that maybe he could be won over through jantars and mantars. 5.
She was exhausted trying jantars and mnatars but he king didn’t visit her. Then she plotted a ploy to allure the king. 6.
She dressed in orange clothing which the Yogis wear and bowed to the king when entering the king’s court. 7.
Investigation: Did the prostitute not know where she was going? Did she think that the Guru would fall for her? Is this not an attack on Guru Sahib? Is this not questioning the character of Guru Sahib? Then the writer says that she tries jantars and mantars. Maybe the writer didn’t know but Gurmat doesn’t agree to performing mantars. It is strictly against Gurmat. The writer again fails to mention that mantars are against Gurmat. Also Guru Ji was so unaware that he could not tell the difference between a woman dressed as a yogi and a man dressed as a yogi? Is this not an attack on the greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
Arill
Seeing the Yogi, the king was impressed internally and thought about receiving some mantars from the yogi. King called a messenger, told him what to say and sent him to the Yogi (prostitute) so he the king could learn the skill of mantars. 8.
Investigation: Once again, the writer makes Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a king searching for mantars. Someone could say that the mantars here don’t mean the magic spells but it means consultation or virtues. Even if that point is accepted, it still doesn’t make it correct as there is no reason to learn virtues from a yogi or have consultation with yogis on Panthic or even personal matters. Guru is the one who teaches others, not the other way around. However, the mantars here mean magic spells. This will be proven later in the chariter. Is this not slandering Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Could someone promoting this garbage be considered a Sikh of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Is there any shame left?
Chaupai
King’s servant went to the Yogi. Whatever the king had said, the servant repeated to the Yogi. Servant asked the Yogi to give some mantars to the king and to please complete this task for his boss (king). 9.
Investigation: So Guru was sending his servants to make appointments to learn mantars from yogis? Why was Guru Sahib so desperate to learn mantars when they are not even as per Gurmat? Guru Sahib said something and did something?
Dohra
The yogi opened his/her eyes after 3 hours and told the servant to bring the king to her/his house if the king wanted to learn virtues. 10.
Bring him to me at midnight. With Gorakh’s blessing, the king will not go back empty handed. 11.
Investigation: Why did the yogi have her/his eyes closed for 3 hours? Closing eyes is also against Gurmat. Gurbani calls it hypocrisy and the writer again fails to mention this. The writer then says with Gorakh’s blessings; here Gorakh means Gorakh Naath the yogi. Gurmat only says to worship Akaal and look for help from Akaal. Not some deities or humans or saints, no matter how great they are. This is evidenced in the concept of ‘Pooja Akaal Kee’ meaning worship of God. God is worshipped by following Gurbani. Gorakh Naath was the founder of the yogi sect of Hinduism. Was Gorakh Nath greater than Guru Nanak that the 10th Nanak had to go to a follower of Gorakh to learn virtues? Guru Nanak proved the path of yogis wrong as evidenced in ‘Sidh Gost’ written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Tria Chariter promoters say that those questioning Tria Chariters are questioning Guru and Gurbani. After reading this verse, it should clear on who is questioning Guru and Gurbani.
Chaupai
The servant relayed the message back to the king and woke him up at midnight. He took the king to the yogi’s house. Upon seeing the king, the yogi felt great pleasure. 12.
Investigation: Who cares if the yogi felt pleasure or not. What does it have to do with Gurmat?
Dohra
Yogi asked the king to send all the people away from the site and call for sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 13.
The king did as asked and told the people to go away. He also received the sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 14.
Then the king sent all of his people away and stayed there pleasurably to learn the mantar. 15.
Investigation: What does liquor have to do with virtues and what do others items have to do with learning virtues? Items such as wick lamps, sandalwood, rice, flowers, etc. are used in learning mantars (magic spells) and not when learning virtues. Therefore, it should be clear that the mantars here mean magic spells which are against fundamentals of Gurmat. Once again the writer tries to make Guru Gobind Singh Ji look like a person who doesn’t know much about his surroundings. This is a direct attack on Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chaupai
When the king was alone, the yogi said that I will show you magic now and will teach you the mantar later. 16.
Investigation: Gurmat also doesn’t accept showing off of magic powers. Once again, the writer fails to mention that this is against Gurmat.
Dohra
From male, I will become a female, and then I will become a male again. Being a male, I will teach you mantar and being a female, I will have sex with you. 17.
Investigation: There should be no confusion here as this is not magic but a fraud. There is nothing special in looking like a woman and then looking like a man. Only a confused person would want to look like the opposite gender. Example, those who shave hair are usually confused as they want to cut hair and look more like females than males.
King Said:
The male who gives mantar is like a father and woman who gives mantar is like a mother. They are to be served and are not be had sexual intercourse with. 18.
Investigation: These statements which seem like the writer is promoting Gurmat are just sugar-coating on poison. Don’t be fooled by these.
Arill
Guru has to be served for mamy years and then after trying hard, the mantar has to be received. Therefore, it is proper to bow to Guru. Hey witty! Then tell me why should sex be had with him/her? 19.
Investigation: So suddenly the yogi becomes Guru of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Where are the brains of promoters of this slandering of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Do these people have mental problems? Is their mission to promote these yogis or other anti-Gurmat paths as better than the path of Guru Nanak? Who are the real slanderers of Guru? Promoters of such stories or the ones who oppose these?
Chaupai
Then the yogi said that I performed his clever act to meet you. Now have sex with me my beloved. Now get on my bed. 20.
Investigation: Did the woman think that Guru Sahib was so easily going to get on her bed and have sex with her?
Dohra
My body has been thirsting to meet you and my body parts have become weak. Hey beloved! Come and accommodate yourself on my bed and make love with me today. 21.
If you try to run away then I will get you caught as a thief and if you let me go, I will speak foul to you. Otherwise, have sex with me without a thought. 22.
When a woman, filled with lust, comes to the one who she loves and if the loved one lets her go without fulfilling her desire, that person shall be thrown in deep hell. 23.
If a woman’s body is filled with lust but a man refuses to fulfill her desires, he should be thrown into the deep pit of hell. 24.
Investigation: So people of Anandpur had the character of Guru Sahib in question that they would believe a prostitute and accept Guru Ji as a thief? Guru Ji wasn’t like a lot of the Gurudwara committee members or granthis who steal money from Gurudwaras. Did the prostitute seriously think that her threats and tactics were going to work? What are the threats of being thrown in hell to Guru? Even Sikhs don’t care about hell or heaven so then why would Guru believe in it? Gurmat rejects the hells and heavens after death. Writer again fails to preach Gurmat and keeps promoting Sikhs and their Guru as followers of Hindu philosophy.
Arill
Creator has given me birth in the house of a prostitute. I took the appearance of a Yogi to meet you. Now quickly place yourself on my bed. I will live as your slave. Don’t make me more anxious. 25.
Investigation: So is it Guru’s fault that she is born in a prostitute’s house? She didn’t have to be a prostitute. What is the purpose of writing that the appearance of yogi was only taken to meet the king? Also Guru Sahib didn’t look for slaves. Guru Sahib freed the people from slavery; not made them slaves.
Dohra
So what if you are smart and are young adult. I have been pierced by separation from you so don’t leave my desire unfilled. 26.
Investigation: It looks like the woman is lecturing Guru on what to do rather than Guru Sahib lecturing her on what is right and what is wrong.
Arill
Don’t waste the time anymore. I am under control of lust. I am drowned in lust up to my head. Don’t let me off with sexual intercourse and don’t have ego due to my desire like black clouded night. 27.
People come to you from all over the places and receive the boons which they wish for. What wrong have I done that I can not have you? I will be the slave of your slaves. Proceed to my bed. 28.
The king said that he came to learn mantars and that she played this act. Why should I have sexual intercourse with you? I am really scared of falling from my faith. 29.
Investigation: Then the prostitute accuses Guru Sahib of having ego because he didn’t agree to her wishes according to the story. Is it ego to keep moral code of conduct and refuse to participate it morally corrupt acts? So Guru Sahib refused to have sex because of fear of falling from faith and nothing to do with morals and shame? If Guru Sahib wasn’t the Guru of Sikhs, he would have agreed to the prostitute and participated in sexual activity? How low are the Tria Chariter promoters going to fall morally? Don’t these people fear God when they slander Guru by linking such garbage to Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
That woman tried persuasion through many ways. She tried many opinions and persuasions. She tried many jantars and mantars. However, she could not persuade the king into her hands. 30.
Investigation: Mantars don’t work on Gursikhs so forget about trying them on Guru. Shows the lack of knowledge the writer has.
Arill
She went into the veranda and started shouting “thief” “thief”. She tried to scare the king to meet him. She came back to him and said to listen to her. She said that the king can either have sex with her or she will get him tied up. 31.
Hearing “thief” “thief”, people came to the location. Woman told the people that she started talking while in her sleep. When the people were gone, she held the hand of the king. She told the king to have sexual intercourse with or her face being tied up. 32.
Investigation: It says the king’s hand was held by her. Didn’t the king snap his hand away from her? Guru Sahib didn’t mind prostitutes holding his hand? Isn’t this an attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Dohra
Then the king thought in his mind that the concept of mantars is to put on an act and run away. 33.
If I run, I lose honor. If I have sexual intercourse, I fall from religion. Due to both of these issues, the situation has become very hard to handle. May God protect me now. 34.
Then king thought that if a son is born, he will become a pimp and if a daughter is born, she will be a prostitute. By having sexual intercourse, religion is lost and by running, I will be tied up. 35.
Investigation: Does the verse talking about having pimp or prostitute as child according to Gurmat? Does this mean Guru Sahib would have fulfilled her wish had it not been the fear of child being born as prostitute or pimp? Is this not a direct attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
King said, “hey beloved! Listen to me. I was just checking you devotion towards me. Whoever finds a beautiful woman like you and lets her go, is a big imbecile. 36.
Investigation: The woman keeps calling Guru Sahib as beloved in a *******ed way and Guru Sahib doesn’t say a word to stop her? How low the chariter promoters going to go to link this garbage to Guru Sahib? Would Guru Sahib ever say that the one who lets go of a beautiful woman is an idiot? When are these enemies of Guru and Guru’s Panth going to stop attacking Guru and Gurmat?
Dohra
If a beautiful woman like you is received, anyone who thinks about forsaking her, his having birth is shameful. 37.
Get a large amount of poppy husk, cannabis, and opium quickly. Being happy from the heart, feed me cannabis. 38.
You drink a lot of liquor and feed me cannabis. I will have sexual intercourse with you for 12 hours. 39.
Investigation: So all those who follow Gurmat had no point in being born? Is this not a direct attack on Gurmat? Is this what the naked legs ones read and promote as Gurmat? Would Guru Sahib ever order drugs? Would Guru Sahib ever tell a woman who doesn’t belong to him that he would have sex with her for 12 hours? Are these stories the reasons why they are often caught in sex scandals or rapes? Can these people ever be considered Sikhs? According to the rehat maryada, they can not be. This is the reason why they reject the rehat maryada and make their own maraydas. Who are the real enemies of Guru? Those who promote garbage like this or the ones who oppose it?
Chaupai
Without knowing, she became joyful after listening to these words. She could not tell between fact and falseness. Being really happy in the heart, she ordered the drugs the king had ordered. 40.
Investigation: The writer seems to have a grudge against women. Maybe his wife ran away or performed one the tricks on someone else. What is so great about fooling women? Is this Gurmat?
Dohra
Poppy husk, cannabis, opium and deep grinded cannabis and liquor prepared seven times were brought. 41.
Investigation: Isn’t this verse promoting drugs? Not once have drugs been denounced in the chariter. Would Guru Sahib not say how bad drugs are? Shows that this isn’t work of Guru Sahib.
Arill
Then the king thought in the mind. Today I will not have sex with her. This is the wisdom from the mantar. I will make her really high on drugs and lie her down on the bed and will run away saving my religion. I will give her 60 coins before going. 42.
Investigation: What did the king mean by not today? King was planning to indulge in sexual activity some other time? What were the 60 coins going to be given for? Was the prostitute a great preacher of Gurmat? Did she invent a special device to help people succeed in day to day activities? Does it mean it is good to give prostitutes money and make them happy? How low are the Panth enemies going to go to promote this garbage? Can these people ever be called Sikhs?
Dohra
She does not understand love. She only cares about money. Are scorpions, snakes and prostitutes ever friends of anyone? 43.
Increasing pleasure, the king made her drink a lot of liquor and to run away, he made her lofty and got her to sleep on the bed. 44.
The king fed her liquor with his own hands and through this act, drugged her up and made her sleep on the bed. 45.
Investigation: So Guru Sahib filled glasses of liquor with his own hands and got her to drink it with his own hands? Can anyone ever think of Guru Sahib filling glasses of liquor and putting them to the mouth of a woman? Is this Gurmat?
Arill
King filled glasses and fed her with his hands. He showed a lot of love towards the prostitute. When she got high and went to sleep, the king placed 60 coins there and ran away. 46.
If a woman loves you, do not love her. If she becomes intoxicated in you sweetness, do not ruin yourself in her sweetness. If you can not understand the feelings of a woman, make sure she doesn’t know the thought of your heart. 47.
Investigation: Why are the same lines being repeated again and again? It seems like the writer was also under influence of drugs while composing this garbage. When he says not to love woman, which woman is he talking about? Does it include the wife? Is it doesn’t then why isn’t it made clear? If it does include the wife, then how can 2 bodies function as one if there is no trust? Is this Gurmat philosophy?
Dohra
Making the woman unconscious (with drugs) and giving her 60 coins, the king ran away. He reached home and no one saw him coming. 48.
Investigation: So the king did indeed run away? If no one saw him coming home, then how did the writer know? The writer is none other than poet Raam. Is poet Raam the Guru of these chariter promoters? Those who do accept that these are writings of poets and say these are accepted writings, do they even know what Gurmat is? Also, who accepted these writings? Is mahant narainu and company or is it is children of narainu (also known as modern mahants)? So if someone wanted to make money, just act as a prostitute and try to lure Guru of Sikhs. Those who sell their souls to RSS are no better than prostitutes like Shujeeya.
Arill
Then the king came home and made a vow that he saved his faith this time with some good tricks. He vowed that he would now spread the greatness of his God throughout many countries and states. He also vowed not to look at other women. 49.
Investigation: Does this verse mean Guru Sahib wasn’t telling people about God or spreading greatness of God before? Does this mean Guru Sahib used to check out women before this incidence? How low are the chariter promoters going to get? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left?
Dohra
The lesson from that day is in my heart. Since that day, I have not been looking at other women. 50.
Investigation: Once again, does this mean Guru Sahib used to look at women in a sexual way before this incidence? How low are the promoters of such garbage going to go? D they fear God or Guru? Do they have no shame insulting Guru who sacrificed everything for them? Do they have no shame defaming the Guru, due to whom they have huge bellies and make a living? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left? Will anyone take action? If you care and love Guru, then spread this article to everyone you know. Otherwise, you can join the chariter promoters and become an enemy of Guru. So it is up to you to decide on which side to take. Which one will you take? Will you spread this article to everyone you know who claims to be a Sikh?

Some lines such as “sandalwood, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor was brought” are repeated again and again. This shows that the writer wasn’t in the right state of mind when writing these chariters. This turns out to be more of a male chariter rather than a female chariter. Also, not to forget, in the end, the prostitute wins as her motive to collect money was also fulfilled. This is a direct attack towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No Sikh of Guru Nanak will tolerate this and can never accept this litter as Gurbani.

Chariter 16 translation and analysis completed!

Please kindly forgive any mistakes and provide any suggestions.


Harmanjit Singh


Bhai just by being on Bank of Satiluj,you want to say that city becomes Anandpur.Very nice.

So is Fillaur not on bank of Satiluj ?and what about Harike?


coming to love,thing,it is been told that many people use to get attracted towards her in general term.



But over here das touched about 5 things which may someone think could point to Guru but were actualy pointing for some King.

Das has touched all that in replies made over here.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-...wrong-doubts-about-bani-onto-4.html#post50793
 

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