Dasam Granth - Authority?

[Archived_member15]

My dear Sikhi brothers and sisters peacesignkaur

I have very much enjoyed reading through some excerpts of the Dasam Granth [ie the Jaap]. I am becoming a real admirer of the spirit and teachings of Guru Gobind Singh.

His teachings on the unity of religions correlate with my convictions. For example, I was moved by these words from the Akal Ustat (Praise of the Timeless One) which follows the Jaap:

"...Recognize all mankind, whether Hindus or Muslims, as one. The same Lord is the Creator and nourisher of all, Recognize no distinction among them: The temple and the mosque, the Hindu and the Muslim prayer, Men are all one...Hindus and Muslims are one...The Hindu Temple and the Muslim Mosque are the same...All humanity is one..."

Nonetheless I am interested to know more about the authority of the Dasam Granth within Sikhi. It is obviously not part of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is the Holy Book of the Sikhs. I have also read that there is some controversy over whether portions of it are authentic.

However if we take it, for simplicity's sake, that most or all of the Dasam Granth is authentic, then is it also considered to be another Scripture alongside the Guru Granth - although of less authority, since the Adi Granth is the eternal, living Guru and spiritual leader of Sikhs (as accorded by Guru Gobind Singh)? Is the Dasam Granth considered to be divinely inspired/revealed?

It is common within religions for their too be two pools of revelation, one usually accorded as the "greater" in authority in terms of authenticity and respect, for example:

The Bible and Sacred Tradition (Church Fathers) in Catholicism, the Qur'an and Hadith in Islam, the Written Torah and the Oral Torah/Talmud in Judaism etc.

Much love peacesignkaur

 

[Manni Singh 85]

I was searching for this kind of thread at SPN. Thanks

 

[findingmyway]

The dasam granth is a controversial subject and there is a wealth of information about it here http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/

Please take the time to read and understand and not be guided just by emotion in order to come to your conclusions. With the DG, nothing should be assumed. Assumptions can lead us astray and that would be an insult to Guru Gobind Singh ji!

 

[Archived_member15]

The dasam granth is a controversial subject and there is a wealth of information about it here http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/

Please take the time to read and understand and not be guided just by emotion in order to come to your conclusions. With the DG, nothing should be assumed. Assumptions can lead us astray and that would be an insult to Guru Gobind Singh ji!

My dear brother Finding gingerteakaur

Thank you for your reply! I will read and think deeply over the contents of the link before getting back to you.

Many thanks!

 

[findingmyway]

You welcome,
your sister Findingmyway

I am not currently on my own computer but when I get back home I will try and attach some brilliant academic studies about the authorship of the DG. Please keep reminding me!!

 

[mikedegriser]

You can but a great book on the authorship, history and compilation of Sri Dasam Granth. It is called Sri Dasam Granth Sahib: Questions and Answers. It has 50 questions and answers related to the Sikh scripture.

Here is the link: http://archimedespress.co.uk/books

 

[findingmyway]

You can but a great book on the authorship, history and compilation of Sri Dasam Granth. It is called Sri Dasam Granth Sahib: Questions and Answers. It has 50 questions and answers related to the Sikh scripture.

Here is the link: http://archimedespress.co.uk/books

I think this book is misleading as it was never originally Sri dasam granth and can never be on the level of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as Guru Gobind Singh ji himself declared we only have one Granth, one Guru to guide us and that is SGGS. Secondly the name of the text was originally Bachittar Natak, not Dasam Granth

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The so called DG is actually a mixture of several granths...and has its name changed many many times in recent times...its first name is BNG..bachittar natak Granth.

 

[mikedegriser]

The earliest manuscripts: all refer to the Granth as Dasam Pasthah Ka Granth and bani, you can see the pictures for yourself in the book.

 

[Seeker9]

I know little about this other Granth

I will observe though I find it very confusing that having conferred Guruship on SGGS, we are debating whether the Tenth Guru would construct another Granth

"Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth"

Which one???

:interestedsingh:

 

[findingmyway]

I am not currently on my own computer but when I get back home I will try and attach some brilliant academic studies about the authorship of the DG. Please keep reminding me!!

The earliest manuscripts: all refer to the Granth as Dasam Pasthah Ka Granth and bani, you can see the pictures for yourself in the book.

As promised. Mike Degriser, I hope the enclosed document provides some clarity.

 

[mikedegriser]

The article provide no clarity at all: Jagjit Singh did not study any manuscripts. He does not mention two early manuscripts which both refer to the Granth of Guru Gobind Singh as Dasam Patshah Ka Granth.

Read the book: Sri Dasam Granth Questions and Answers as the 300 year history of Granth is covered from the earliest manuscripts, historical accounts and locations related to the Granth are mentioned. Also see enclosed attachment.

 

[findingmyway]

The article provide no clarity at all: Jagjit Singh did not study any manuscripts. He does not mention two early manuscripts which both refer to the Granth of Guru Gobind Singh as Dasam Patshah Ka Granth.

Read the book: Sri Dasam Granth Questions and Answers as the 300 year history of Granth is covered from the earliest manuscripts, historical accounts and locations related to the Granth are mentioned. Also see enclosed attachment.

1. The history in the account posted is very woolly. It dates the 1st known bir approximately 1720 - more than 10 years after the death of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and more than 20 years after the 1st Vaisakhi. The study done by the scholars in the document posted earlier places the earliest know bir in 1775 - even later!! If it was original text this timing does not make sense. None of the evidence presented stems from a time when Guru Gobind Singh ji was alive.

2. The document you provide only references Damdami Taksal. If it was an original vital document there should be more historical Gurdwaras with original copies including the Akal Takht. This is not the case.

3. When Guru Gobind Singh ji gave us the instruction to accept only Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our eternal Guru, why would he keep another text completely separate? Doesn't make any sense!

4. The only text I need to read to decide on authenticity of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Whatever matches that in philosophy I can accept as a supporting document otherwise I can't but that is a different matter! This thread is about the origin of the text so I will stick to that.

 

[passingby]

Not wishing to get into an argument, I just wish to make a point. For Guru Gobind Singh who besides being a Guru was also a creative writer, a scholar, it was not mandatory that every literary piece he created should be compiled along with Guru Grantha Sahib. In principle and in theory he could write something which he did not intend to include in SGGS.

 

[findingmyway]

Not wishing to get into an argument, I just wish to make a point. For Guru Gobind Singh who besides being a Guru was also a creative writer, a scholar, it was not mandatory that every literary piece he created should be compiled along with Guru Grantha Sahib. In principle and in theory he could write something which he did not intend to include in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Very true! And I'll add that he certainly did not mean anything else to be at the same level of SGGS either

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Sikhs who ..."bow and kiss..touch reverently.....and Matha Tek large amounts of CASH...to...even OBJECTS...supposedly belonging to Guru sahibs...like their cholas, thalis, chamchas, kharrawan juttee footwear..peerrhas, beds, and even miraclous objects like the so called holey ganga sagar..etc etc...will accept and treat such writings the very same way...and thats where the danger lies...such "Sikhs" are getting more numbers as each day passed due to the Blind Faith being spread by the DHONGEE babas/mahapurash/DERAWADEES dehdharee pujarees ( who then go ahead and establish their OWN "Matha-teking objects" like you can see in nanaksar jagraon etc places where there are Beds, slippers, arm chairs etc etc of the supposedly Holy Waddeh baba nand singh ishar singh etc..all such OBJECTS are solely for DEH WORSHIP/COLLECTION of Money form GULLIBLE sikhs.

The TRUTH is that while the Sikh Gursu wrote a Huge Granth called the SGGS chock full of Sikh Jeewan jaach philosophy of Life and the Creator..these DHONGEE Babas havent written a SINGLE LINE...all they managed to leave behind are slippers, cholas, beds and arm chairs or walking sticks...IF at all there is a book on any such sant baba..its all abouit his various chamtkaars, miracles and FAKE stories..NOT a single line about Gurbani or sikh philosophy will be inside those books..all self praise of the human sant.
The persons who wrote Dozens of Books on Sikhi..bhai Radhir singh giani ditt singh etc are not "sants"..and never claimed to have any miracles or stories or left behind any beds or slippers for people to worship..
So there is no palce for such writings, granths, or OBJECTS fo worship..as Guru ji made it very clear that the HUMAN BODY is of no consequence..the Only GURU is GURBANI...and EVERYTHING OUTSIDE the GURU..SGGS is of no consequence either...