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Atheism Conversation About Atheism

jasi

SPNer
Apr 29, 2005
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SS AKAL JI .


ATHEIST JI.

You do not have to believe in God it will not make ANY difference TO billions of people living on this earth.

Let us put this way that there are so many people who do not believe in GOD but they are very truthful to themselves and others and believe in truth and facts of life then you are the staunch believer in GOD because GOD is truth and truth is GOD.

Then that is your religion which we call them a Sikh,follower of TRUTH BUT ONLY TRUTH and follower of GURU NANAK DEV ..

If you do not believe in truth either then you can find suitable title for yourself to live with your conscious.

Just for your information there is no other rituals you have to folllow in SKHISMS.

Lets say you believe in TRUTH the you are real Sikh.

Fundamental foundation laid by Guru Nanak Dev Ji philosophy is as follows:

"TRUTH IS THE HIGHEST VIRTUE AND HIGHER THAN IS TRUTHFUL LIVING"


"SUCH ANDER SABH KUCH ,BAHER SACH NA KOI" ONE DOESN'T HAVE TO GRANTHI TO UNDERSTAND THESE SIMPLE WORDS.


Jaspiikonkaar
The only Universal truth.


 

Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Re: Introducing Myself

Thanks Mai Ji,

I was born a Sikh but I left Sikhism because I don't have any sort of reason to believe in the God concept. I was a Deist in between my transition from Sikhism to Atheism but after a while I found out that I was just believing in a hypothesis that can't be proven and had no facts to back it up. Then I became the Atheist.

Don't worry about the antagonism. I don't hold any sort of grudge or superiority complex towards Sikhs like some Atheists from an Abrahamic background hold towards their former religions.

SS AKAL .


ATHEIST JI.

You do not have to believe in God it will not make ANY difference TO billions of people living on this earth.

But if you believe in truth and facts of life then you are the staunch believer in GOD
because GOD is truth and truth is GOD.That is your religion which we call them a Sikh. follower of TRUTH BUT ONLY TRUTH.

If you do not believe in truth either then you can find suitable title for youself to live with your conscious.

Lets say you believe in TRUTH the you are real Sikh.

Fundamental foundation laid by Guru Nanak Dev Ji philosophy is as follows:

"TRUTH IS THE HIGHEST VIRTUE AND HIGHER THAN IS TRUTHFUL LIVING"


"SUCH ANDER SABH KUCH ,BAHER SACH NA KOI" ONE DOESN'T HAVE TO GRANTHI TO UNDERSTAND THESE SIMPLE WORDS.


Jaspiikonkaar
Universal truth.


I understand you believe in the SGGS dearly but I've had quotes thrown at me from other believers so this has zero effect one me. Also I believe my name is Spades not Atheist.

BTW, did someone on one of the Sponsor ads put a Fleur di lis in place of a Khanda or are they based in Quebec?
 

Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Re: Introducing Myself

Welcome Spades ji

After reading the past few posts I am exhausted. But just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your willingness to own your own decision regarding Sikhism and God, instead of trying to make Sikhism or God fit the model of your preferred model of spirituality.

Hope that you find this forum worth the time spent reading and participating. Whenever you have qualms about that let me know, or any other member of the moderation team.

Welcome again,
Narayanjot Kaur
Thanks and if you or anyone ever has a question than shoot me a PM and I will try to answer it.
 

ballym

SPNer
May 19, 2006
257
334
Re: Introducing Myself

Hello Spades Ji,
being Atheist does not mean that you can not be sikh anymore... a learner.
Your definition of God changes but faith remains. the question is what ( not whom) do you have faith in.
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Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Re: Introducing Myself

Hello Spades Ji,
being Atheist does not mean that you can not be sikh anymore... a learner.
I've been aware of that for a while.

Your definition of God changes but faith remains.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
We don't believe in any sort of God but that doesn't mean that the definition of it has changed necessarily. This would be like saying that since I don't believe in Santa Claus as I once did that I now have a different definition of Santa.

the question is what ( not whom) do you have faith in.
I don't have faith in anything that would be similar to what Theists have for their Gods.
 
May 24, 2008
546
884
Re: Introducing Myself

Spades Ji ,
Sikhism is so wonderful that IMHO if you replace the word GOD by NATURE , the wish of God by RESULT OF DEEDS even then everything will seem to be so logical & perfectly RATIONAL to you . I may request others to kindly suggest some other words in replacement of GOD . This is perhaps the only religion which may not fail your expecatations .
 

jasi

SPNer
Apr 29, 2005
304
277
78
canada
A Sikh replies to atheists

SS AKAL JI.



You do not have to believe in God it will not make ANY difference TO billions of people living on this earth.

But if you believe in truth and facts of life then you are the staunch believer in GOD because GOD is truth and truth is GOD.

Then that will be your religion which we call them a Sikhs.

If you do not believe in truth either then you can find suitable title for yourself to live with your conscious.


Lets say you believe in TRUTH then you are real Sikh.

Fundamental foundation laid by Guru Nanak Dev Ji philosophy is as follows:

"TRUTH IS THE HIGHEST VIRTUE AND HIGHER THAN IS TRUTHFUL LIVING"


"SUCH ANDER SABH KUCH ,BAHER SACH NA KOI" ONE DOESN'T HAVE TO GRANTHI TO UNDERSTAND THESE SIMPLE WORDS.

By the way the whole teaching by Guru Nanak is without any kinds rituals,cast system,idol worshiping and any other degrading human practices.

TRUTH.Allaha,GOD,Rab,Parmatma,Ishwver or any other names existing are the name of Truth.


Jaspiikonkaar
Universal truth.
 
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Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Re: Introducing Myself

Spades Ji ,
Sikhism is so wonderful that IMHO if you replace the word GOD by NATURE , the wish of God by RESULT OF DEEDS even then everything will seem to be so logical & perfectly RATIONAL to you . I may request others to kindly suggest some other words in replacement of GOD . This is perhaps the only religion which may not fail your expecatations .
It doesn't matter what words you replace the word God with it will still be the same concept of a higher being that I don't adhere to.
 

jasi

SPNer
Apr 29, 2005
304
277
78
canada
Re: Introducing Myself

SS AKAL JI.

It seems like asking you if you believe in any thing which interest you the most .

Intensity of any thing like sadness,feeling of complete depressions ,crying,laughing,or becoming wealthy person . pains, love ,will leads you to higher authority.

This is a natural process of realizing the GOD for those people who are born or changed during some course of life by multiple disappointments from higher authority.

But they are forgetting they are going through their KARMAS results.God has nothing to do with any pains or any tragedies or any kinds of punishments to its creations.

It is KARMA repeated the committed deeds into bad or good results.


One day you will be blessed with urge to lean on something you trust the you will realize the existences of Supreme authority ..

Jaspi
 
Oct 16, 2009
115
78
Re: Introducing Myself

dear spades it really doesn't matter what you believe in, do good and be good to all serve the humanity and enjoy your life.
you are better than million of those who kill in God's name :firing:

welcome
 

Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Re: Introducing Myself

Before I begin I would like to thank Mai Ji and Naranjyot Ji for being so welcoming to me with all things considered.

Now I shall get
:backtotopic:

Intensity of any thing like sadness,feeling of complete depressions ,crying,laughing,or becoming wealthy person . pains, love ,will leads you to higher authority.
Your emotions and personal experiences mean absolutely nothing to me when considering the God question. Also emotions are what all humans have regardless of if they are Theists, Atheists, Deists, etc.

This is a natural process of realizing the GOD for those people who are born or changed during some course of life by multiple disappointments from higher authority.

But they are forgetting they are going through their KARMAS results.God has nothing to do with any pains or any tragedies or any kinds of punishments to its creations.

It is KARMA repeated the committed deeds into bad or good results.


One day you will be blessed with urge to lean on something you trust the you will realize the existences of Supreme authority ..

1) You have absolutely no knowledge of my life so I don't really see how you can comment on it.

2) Emotions are irrelevant towards the question of whether or not there is a higher being.

3) I do not blame God for any bad things that have happened to me since I pretty much place your god along with Zeus, Vishnu, Anubis, Allah, Yahweh, etc as deities I don't believe in.

dear spades it really doesn't matter what you believe in, do good and be good to all serve the humanity and enjoy your life.
you are better than million of those who kill in God's name :firing:

welcome
Thanks Sikh Royalist Ji :thumbup:

 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,029
7,158
Henderson, NV.
Spades ji,

Guru Fateh.

Welcome to the forum.

It matters not what your belief is or what your lack of belief is about. We, all as humans are here to breed goodness within which can be shared with others irrespective of one's hue,creed or faith.

I have just one question for you so I can understand where you are coming from.

What is your concept of Ik Ong Kaar? Can you please describe that?

As you know Sikh means a student, a learner, a seeker. Claiming that you are not a Sikh anymore seems like that you have hidden yourself under some rock and stopped your learning process in your life, which I am sure is not the case.:)

You can use the search from this forum or share from your own personal experience the meaning of Ik Ong Kaar.

Hope to hear from you.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Spades ji,

Guru Fateh.

Welcome to the forum.

It matters not what your belief is or what your lack of belief is about. We, all as humans are here to breed goodness within which can be shared with others irrespective of one's hue,creed or faith.

I have just one question for you so I can understand where you are coming from.

What is your concept of Ik Ong Kaar? Can you please describe that?

As you know Sikh means a student, a learner, a seeker. Claiming that you are not a Sikh anymore seems like that you have hidden yourself under some rock and stopped your learning process in your life, which I am sure is not the case.:)

You can use the search from this forum or share from your own personal experience the meaning of Ik Ong Kaar.

Hope to hear from you.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
Tejwant Ji,

I have no idea if you are asking me for a translation of the phrase or if you are wondering if that statement has any sort of personal meaning to me but I somehow assume you are asking the latter. Please correct me if this is wrong.

It has the meaning to me as the Shahada or a Christian saying that only Christ is lord. It is just a declaration of one's monotheistic beliefs.
 

jasi

SPNer
Apr 29, 2005
304
277
78
canada
Re: Introducing Myself

SS AKAL JI

Spade Ji.

As you wrote the following:

3) I do not blame God for any bad things that have happened to me since I pretty much place your god along with Zeus, Vishnu, Anubis, Allah, Yahweh, etc as deities I don't believe


REPLY TO YOUR #3 POINT:

No one can be GOD in human flesh or any one who can go to wash room can not be a God .

Allah or God,Rub,Khuda,Bhagwan are not name of human beings.

Also blame is placed when you know some one very closely in your case there is no one to blame.


Rama,Krishna,may be thousands of other being worshiped as God Jesuse, Vishnu, Anubis
,Budha,Nanak or others were all in human flesh.

There is nothing emotional about this topic or rendering any advices to you but these are the facts written all over us.

For further enlightenment if one needs to achieve should read MUL MANTAR to understand God and by reading Jap Ji sahib .

Guru Nanak Dev denounced himself to be a God but considered himself as a DAS to Supreme power and blessed with tools to follow certain ways of life according to His teaching to achieve realizations of Almighty during this JANAM.


God bless you .

Jaspi





Before I begin I would like to thank Mai Ji and Naranjyot Ji for being so welcoming to me with all things considered.

Now I shall get
:backtotopic:



Your emotions and personal experiences mean absolutely nothing to me when considering the God question. Also emotions are what all humans have regardless of if they are Theists, Atheists, Deists, etc.



1) You have absolutely no knowledge of my life so I don't really see how you can comment on it.

2) Emotions are irrelevant towards the question of whether or not there is a higher being.

3) I do not blame God for any bad things that have happened to me since I pretty much place your god along with Zeus, Vishnu, Anubis, Allah, Yahweh, etc as deities I don't believe in.



Thanks Sikh Royalist Ji :thumbup:

 

Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Re: Introducing Myself

No one can be GOD in human flesh or any one who can go to wash room can not be a God .

Allah or God,Rub,Khuda,Bhagwan are not name of human beings.
This is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make about me not blaming deities for whatever low points I may have had in my life.
Also blame is placed when you know some one very closely in your case there is no one to blame.
I never said I blamed anyone

There is nothing emotional about this topic or rendering any advices to you but these are the facts written all over us.
When did I ever mention there was some sort of emotional involvement in this thread for me? If anything you were the one that brought up the topic of emotion into this discussion.

For further enlightenment if one needs to achieve should read MUL MANTAR to understand God and by reading Jap Ji sahib .

Guru Nanak Dev denounced himself to be a God but considered himself as a DAS to Supreme power and blessed with tools to follow certain ways of life according to His teaching to achieve realizations of Almighty during this JANAM.i
Let me show you how I interpret this statement if I were change a few words.

For further enlightenment if one needs to achieve should read THE KORAN to understand God and by reading Hadiths.

Muhammad denounced himself to be a God but considered himself as a servant to Supreme power and blessed with tools to follow certain ways of life according to His teaching to achieve realizations of Almighty during this DUNYA.i
I would imagine this is what a Muslim may say to me if I were to have posted this on a Muslim forum. By looking at that post do you feel convinced of Islam's validity? I certainly hope not but I do hope you realize that preaching at me is not going to make a difference.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,029
7,158
Henderson, NV.
Tejwant Ji,

I have no idea if you are asking me for a translation of the phrase or if you are wondering if that statement has any sort of personal meaning to me but I somehow assume you are asking the latter. Please correct me if this is wrong.

It has the meaning to me as the Shahada or a Christian saying that only Christ is lord. It is just a declaration of one's monotheistic beliefs.
Spades ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response, however my question was specifically about Ik Ong Kaar. From your response one can gather that you, although claimimg to be an ex-Sikh do not know the difference between the Christian deity along with other dogmatic religions and Sikhi which is pragmatic. Sikhi has nothing to do with any religion with deity.

This was the reason I asked you to describe Ik Ong Kaar.

If I were you, I would search for Mool Manter in this forum where you will find many interpretations and you can also check http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?S=y and see the difference for yourself.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. These kinds of preconceived notions without any knowledge of the subject makes one jump to conclusions which may be misleading.

Mind you, I am not trying to convert you into anyone you do not want to be because that is not my goal nor is this my objective and I know that it is the journey of the individual. I just want you to have the knowledge of the subject that you are talking about.

As they say," Make knowledge your best friend rather than your worst enemy", no matter what your path is.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Spades

SPNer
Aug 12, 2010
32
34
Spades ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the response, however my question was specifically about Ik Ong Kaar. From your response one can gather that you, although claimimg to be an ex-Sikh do not know the difference between the Christian deity along with other dogmatic religions and Sikhi which is pragmatic. Sikhi has nothing to do with any religion with deity.

This was the reason I asked you to describe Ik Ong Kaar.

If I were you, I would search for Mool Manter in this forum where you will find many interpretations and you can also check http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?S=y and see the difference for yourself.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. These kinds of preconceived notions without any knowledge of the subject makes one jump to conclusions which may be misleading.

Mind you, I am not trying to convert you into anyone you do not want to be because that is not my goal nor is this my objective and I know that it is the journey of the individual. I just want you to have the knowledge of the subject that you are talking about.

As they say," Make knowledge your best friend rather than your worst enemy", no matter what your path is.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
I understand there is a difference between the Christian god and the Sikh god but what I was trying to say is that the Mool Mantar/Ik Ong Kaar (which is quoted below) is nothing special to me personally and I consider it to be the same thing as someone stating the Shahada, saying that Jesus Christ is Lord, or any other declaration of faith/prayer/boast about god. I never said that the gods of these three religions had the same characteristics nor did I ever say that the three religions are similar. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Once again if I misinterpreted the question please tell me and correct me. I was unsure if you wanted me to give you a literal translation of Ik Onkaar or if you wanted me to tell you what it meant to me personally or how I view it.

As for calling the Sikh God a deity I will admit that after being tired from work and lack of sleep that I may have misused that word as it is more suited for more humanoid supernatural beings (Zeus, Ra, Odin, etc). I should have used the word supernatural being if that makes it any better.

Thanks for the response, however my question was specifically about Ik Ong Kaar. From your response one can gather that you, although claimimg to be an ex-Sikh do not know the difference between the Christian deity along with other dogmatic religions and Sikhi which is pragmatic. Sikhi has nothing to do with any religion with deity.


As for Sikhi being not being about a deity or a religion I am going to have to stop you right there. Every religious person of every faith has used the "We are not a religion" card with me since religion has pretty much become a dirty word in Western society but that is what Sikhism is... a religion.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,029
7,158
Henderson, NV.
I understand there is a difference between the Christian god and the Sikh god but what I was trying to say is that the Mool Mantar/Ik Ong Kaar (which is quoted below) is nothing special to me personally and I consider it to be the same thing as someone stating the Shahada, saying that Jesus Christ is Lord, or any other declaration of faith/prayer/boast about god. I never said that the gods of these three religions had the same characteristics nor did I ever say that the three religions are similar. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Once again if I misinterpreted the question please tell me and correct me. I was unsure if you wanted me to give you a literal translation of Ik Onkaar or if you wanted me to tell you what it meant to me personally or how I view it.

As for calling the Sikh God a deity I will admit that after being tired from work and lack of sleep that I may have misused that word as it is more suited for more humanoid supernatural beings (Zeus, Ra, Odin, etc). I should have used the word supernatural being if that makes it any better.

As for Sikhi being not being about a deity or a religion I am going to have to stop you right there. Every religious person of every faith has used the "We are not a religion" card with me since religion has pretty much become a dirty word in Western society but that is what Sikhism is... a religion.
Spades ji,

Guru Fateh.

You have contradicted yourself several times above. As you are tired from work, I will not indulge you tonight. Tomorrow you re read my post and your response with contradictions and then let me know.

We have all our lives to learn, so there is no hurry.:)

Regards and rest well.


Tejwant Singh
 

jasi

SPNer
Apr 29, 2005
304
277
78
canada
Re: Introducing Myself

SS AKAL JI.

Spades JI.

Whenever I or us speak or explain our views they are not addressed to any individuals but general exchanges of thoughts or the facts existing relevant to the discussion.


You quoted:
For further enlightenment if one needs to achieve should read THE KORAN to understand God and by reading Hadiths.

Muhammad denounced himself to be a God but considered himself as a servant to Supreme power and blessed with tools to follow certain ways of life according to His teaching to achieve realizations of Almighty during this DUNYA.i

That is exactly what Guru Nanak Dev made us believe HIS philosophy by denouncing to be a GOD but blessed us with Guru bani if it is followed one has a good chances to be enlightened during his journey of life.

Jaspi



This is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make about me not blaming deities for whatever low points I may have had in my life.


I never said I blamed anyone

I NEVER SAID YOU BLAME ANY ONE BUT MADE A GENERAL COMMENTS.



When did I ever mention there was some sort of emotional involvement in this thread for me? If anything you were the one that brought up the topic of emotion into this discussion.

I NEVER SAID THAT THERE WAS SOME SORT OF EMOTIONAL INVOLVEMENT BY YOU.

WE ARE HAVING HEALTHY EXCHANGES OF OUR VIEWS ON SUBJECT UNDER DISCUSSION WITHOUT DIRECTING ANY WORDS TO EACH OTHERS IN THIS FORUM OF SIKH PHILOSOPHY

BUT WE DO SHARE EACH OF OUR THOUGHTS BASED ON SOME FACTS OR HOW ONE FEEL TO EXPRESS HIMSELF/HERSELF..



Let me show you how I interpret this statement if I were change a few words.

THANKS FOR YOUR QOUTE



I would imagine this is what a Muslim may say to me if I were to have posted this on a Muslim forum. By looking at that post do you feel convinced of Islam's validity? I certainly hope not but I do hope you realize that preaching at me is not going to make a difference.
BELIEVERS IN MUHAMMAD HAS ALL 100% VALIDITY IN ISLAM AND THE PROBLEM IS DUNIA WHO INSTEAD OF FOLLOWING PHILOSOPHY OF MUHAMMAD AND GURU NANAK DEV ERE ENVELOPED IN ALL KINDS OF RITUALS AND DISBELIEFS IN SUPREME POWER ,WE CAN GOD IN ENGLISH AND ALLAH IN ARABIC

JASPI
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,936
2,948
51
United Kingdom
I think I stated this before.

Atheism is about logic and rationality

Spirituality is about belief which is irrational.

Why would someone who believes in rationality wish to convince someone who's belief is based on an irrational concept that they are irrational. They already know belief is irrational.

As for Sikhism, let us take the first line of Mul Mantar!

Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ.

There is but One Universal Constant . Its Name Is Truth. The Creator. Fearless. Its does not make enemies. It is Beyond Space and Time. It is self existent.We learn this through the Teacher.


Now I don't know about you, but this concept seems pretty Universal to an Atheist or a believer in a higher power (which some people call God, other Truth, other the Universe etc etc):redturban:
 
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