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Charitropakhyan Charitropakhyan

roab1

SPNer
Jul 1, 2009
133
229
I have heard about the pupose of Ram-Avtar/Krishan-Avtar as being solely for the pupose of rousing spirit for holy war. Does Charitropakhyan contain any similar declaration, that is to keep Sikhs morally sound? Or are they just like typical moral stories where the moral has to be interpreted by the reader himself? Does any story point that any act mentioned, of sexuality or deceiving or murder leads to downfall?
 

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roab1

SPNer
Jul 1, 2009
133
229
Lets discard that article and other people/writers opinion on this for now. What i need is

Does Charitropakhyan declare anywhere its purpose?

Is sound moral behaviour, like in Bhai Gurdas Vars, advised as the path to follow? Or is all left to readers interpretation from stories? Does any story end on a moral note?

These are written in talks between a Minister and a King. Does the Minister give any advise to the King about benefits of morals aside from detailing the stories?
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,180
roab1 ji

If you are asking for member's individual opinions in relation to the specific questions that you have asked, then they need to read the Charitthropakayan to formulate their answers. We have this in translation here at the forum. If I post the translation here it will get lost as soon as the thread gets to 2 pages in length.

The conversation will not get very far without it.

Having said that -- do you want me to edit your opening comments so that the pdf files with the translation of Charitthropakayan is always visible in the thread?
 

roab1

SPNer
Jul 1, 2009
133
229
Plese put the pdf. The reason i am seeking the particular content that i have read a lot of people saying that there is no correct translation available anywhere. But even if we assume this to be true, the basic moral declaration wouldnt be too hard to translate. I think i will go through the pdf file to seek it on my own.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,180
roab1 ji

The problems with the translation are mostly the result of the chapters being written in Braj, which was the literary form of Hindi in the court of Guru Gobind Singh. With the translation from Braj into Punjabi and from Punjabi into English, translation questions do arise.

I have read the same criticisms -- and these never include examples of how the Braj gives a substantially different result in Engiish than it does in Punjabi.

Let me go ahead and upload the attachments.

:happykaur:
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,180
The Charitthropakayan Volumes 1 and 2 have been attached to the starter post. You should be able to see these attachments at the top of the first post on each page of this thread.

The translation is by Pritpal Singh Bindra
 

roab1

SPNer
Jul 1, 2009
133
229
Charitropakhyan is often reffered to as being as 'tales of wily women'. Its followers point that it's purpose is to save them from Kaam.

I was wondering why would the person who is said to have compiled it choose to remain unmarried and celibate all his life when Gurus specifically asked sikhs to lead a normal healthy married life??

Even today remaining unmarried is looked down upon in Punjab society as a curse.
 

ballym

SPNer
May 19, 2006
257
334
It is wonderful to have people exposing different aspects. This question asked by Roab1 is a very basic question one asks in case of any advice or action suggested by one person to other.
For example, if my father asks me to climb on a tree, I would ask Why?
If some one gives me some unusual information, I say..... Oh, Interesting..... and my next line would be........What should I do( if I care to say that much).
So someone tells u ... here is a story.... and u natuarally say... interesting.... What next?

But here, people supporting Sri Dasam granth (as entirely wriitten by Guru Saahib) never care to answer such simple question ... Does it give any direction... or is it just for entertainment value?
If it gives direction... where is the language. Where is the tone.
Each guru writes in a language giving direction... especially if the topic is one's Character.
Now they are going to say... you are doubting Guruji!!!!
As per my knowledge, there is no such cautionary wording in the tales.
The writer like H S Mehboob has correctly detailed contextual references to bring out such points. if we collect all different objections, it brings out the truth of lies which were written in those days to malign sikh religion which was gaining popularity due to its simplicity depite having no positive directive of the government/ moughals/ maratthas.
Now a days, people are trying to make it look like a strict taliban style religion to reduce its following. As I said earlier, we should be inclusive of all people.Otherwise, in the name of purity, we will have nothing left.
We can have all levels of people in a religion , is not it? Do we have people in a religion following it with same reverence... or energy/zeal?
No.
World has people of all kinds, levels, devotion, committment. So a religion also can have people having all levels of committment.
Basic rule should be ... acceptance of basic rules of the religion.

One thing is certain...... there are vested interests who want to undermine our religion and wants to take away followers to their own fold.And anyway, lots of hindus are converting to christianity. they have big programs all over Punjab. I am not sure current situation but it was a big issue aroud five years back. with RSS/ Bajarang Dal creaing trouble at the meeting sites.
Our top organisations should accept this fact and formulate a strategy to fight it out.
Let us move forward, leave dasam granth as an unauthentic book .... or may be reduce its size with acceptable, relevant portions only.
Another startegy is to...... reach a consensus about some parts and keep fighting about the rest.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,180
Let us move forward, leave dasam granth as an unauthentic book .... or may be reduce its size with acceptable, relevant portions only.
Another startegy is to...... reach a consensus about some parts and keep fighting about the rest.

ballym ji

How I wish it were as you imagine it!
 

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