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Charai Ved Hoey Sachiar

japjisahib04

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ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:
Page 470, Line 4
ਸਾਮ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਤੰਬਰੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਚ ਮਹਿ ਆਛੈ ਸਾਚਿ ਰਹੇ ॥
The Sama Veda says that the Lord Master is robed in white; in the Age of Truth, everyone desired Truth, abided in Truth,

ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥
and was merged in the Truth.
ਰਿਗੁ ਕਹੈ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥
The Rig Veda says that God is permeating and pervading everywhere;

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਵਾ ਮਹਿ ਸੂਰੁ ॥
among the deities, the Lord's Name is the most exalted.
ਨਾਇ ਲਇਐ ਪਰਾਛਤ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
Chanting the Name, sins depart;
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਉ ਮੋਖੰਤਰੁ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
O Nanak, then, one obtains salvation.

ਜੁਜ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਰਿ ਛਲੀ ਚੰਦ੍ਰਾਵਲਿ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੁ ਜਾਦਮੁ ਭਇਆ ॥
In the Jujar Veda, Kaan Krishna of the Yaadva tribe seduced Chandraavali by force.

ਪਾਰਜਾਤੁ ਗੋਪੀ ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਬਿੰਦ੍ਰਾਬਨ ਮਹਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਕੀਆ ॥
He brought the Elysian Tree for his milk-maid, and revelled in Brindaaban.

ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਹੂਆ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਅਲਹੁ ਭਇਆ ॥
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.

ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਲੇ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰੇ ਤੁਰਕ ਪਠਾਣੀ ਅਮਲੁ ਕੀਆ ॥
Men began to wear blue robes and garments; Turks and Pat'haans assumed power.

ਚਾਰੇ ਵੇਦ ਹੋਏ ਸਚਿਆਰ ॥
The four Vedas each claim to be true.

ਪੜਹਿ ਗੁਣਹਿ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਚਾਰ ਵੀਚਾਰ ॥
Reading and studying them, four doctrines are found.

ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਨੀਚੁ ਸਦਾਏ ॥
With loving devotional worship, abiding in humility,

ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੋਖੰਤਰੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੨॥
O Nanak, salvation is attained. ||2||

While going through above sabd, I am wondering whether guru sahib really is referring to the text of religious books of Hindus or raising question how manh can be truthful - the question raised in first pauree of japjisahib. If he really is raising the text of hindus religious books, then are there only four veds? If yes then why guru sahib is telling us, ' ਛਿਅ ਘਰ ਛਿਅ ਗੁਰ ਛਿਅ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥ six veds, six shastra, and six different philosophies but base for all gian to fix dhiyan. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 12.16.

Since sabd is also referring to satyug, kalyug, duapar age, I will request learn members to contemplate and suggest.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Can anyone here get hold of a copy of the Gurbani arths published in the Rozaana Spokesman when it first began a few years ago..i think they are now compiled into a book. In that book Joginder Singh has a different view on the Chey Gur Chey ghar....and why he beleives these are not NUMBERS...as (6). I dont have the book but i do remember vaguely he did discuss this....I think this book is available form RS Trust in Chandigarh.
 

japjisahib04

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Gyani Jee

My concern is not particular on numbers but whether guru sahib really is trying to apprise us about Hindu religious books. Was there really age of truth - satyug? or Sri Krishna kidnappped chandravalii and brought her to Brindaban to rape. What spirituality lies in telling us 'allah became the name of God? Is this the message guru sahib is conveying? And by stating 'charai ved hoey sachiar padai guneh tineh char vichar' he wants us to read them to be sachiar or there is something deeper message?
 

Sherdil

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I don't think he is praising the books. I think he is just reiterating what is the common held belief about them. The way he lists them, I get the impression that people followed these books like passing fads. Certain religious paths were fashionable in certain time periods. In the last two lines, he states that humility and loving devotion is what is most important. Without these things, you are merely a follower chasing the latest craze.

Japjisahib04 ji is correct in relating this back to the first pauree, where Guru ji tells us that we can become true by willingly following the Hukam. According to my current understanding, in order to submit to something, you have to humble yourself. Humility is recognizing that the Divine is all powerful, and it is by the Hukam that all things come to pass.
 

japjisahib04

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Yes Jee. I also feel Guru sahib is just reiterating the common held belief. But then why Guru sahib is guiding, ' charai ved hoey sachiar padai guneh tineh char vichar' what are these veds that guru sahib wants us to read and contemplate.

While looking at the start of the salok, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੁ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਰਥੁ ਇਕੁ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਅਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥ ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਕਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਰਥੁ ਜਤੈ ਕਾ ਜੋਰੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਰਥੁ ਤਪੈ ਕਾ ਸਤੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਕਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥੧॥ Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 470.1, first of all it reveals that the four ages satyug, traita, duapar and kalyug are not physical yugs but, 'ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਅਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥ since it can flip back by imbibing divine traits from kalyug to duapar and from duaper to traita and then satgyug thus it is state of mind. Secondly 'ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੁ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਰਥੁ ਇਕੁ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ by emulating divine wisdom chariot of manh is stablized on its four wheel. And once these four wheels are transformed, my thought process and character is 'ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਚਾਰ ਵੀਚਾਰ ॥ is elevated and guru sahib is referring these fours wheels to ved as (divine wisdom). Gurmukh nadang, gurmukh vaidang - the inner message is ved.

Further when unique and exclusive philosophy of gurmat is 'manh jeetai jaghjeet' and gurbani tells us, 'ਸਨਕਾਦਿਕ ਨਾਰਦ ਮੁਨਿ ਸੇਖਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤਨ ਮਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਪੇਖਾ ॥੩॥ ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਕੋਈ ਖੋਜਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਤਨ ਛੂਟੇ ਮਨੁ ਕਹਾ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੪॥ the whole game is of manh but none of these sages or holy book talk of manh and introspection, then how could we interpret charai vaid hoey sachiar of other religious book as truthful.

I am looking forward feed back from our learned members.
 

Sherdil

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japjisahib04 said:
While looking at the start of the salok, 'ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੁ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਰਥੁ ਇਕੁ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਅਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥ ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਕਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਰਥੁ ਜਤੈ ਕਾ ਜੋਰੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਰਥੁ ਤਪੈ ਕਾ ਸਤੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥ ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਕਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥੧॥ Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 470.1, first of all it reveals that the four ages satyug, traita, duapar and kalyug are not physical yugs but, 'ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਅਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ ॥ since it can flip back by imbibing divine traits from kalyug to duapar and from duaper to traita and then satgyug thus it is state of mind.
It helps if we take a look at the shabadh in its entirety.

GGS, page 470:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ
सलोकु मः १ ॥
Salok mėhlā 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:

ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੁ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਰਥੁ ਇਕੁ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ
नानक मेरु सरीर का इकु रथु इकु रथवाहु ॥
Nānak mer sarīr kā ik rath ik rathvāhu.
O Nanak, the soul of the body has one chariot and one charioteer.

ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਅਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੁਝਹਿ ਤਾਹਿ
जुगु जुगु फेरि वटाईअहि गिआनी बुझहि ताहि ॥
Jug jug fer vatā▫ī▫ah gi▫ānī bujẖėh ṯāhi.
In age after age they change; the spiritually wise understand this.

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਕਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ
सतजुगि रथु संतोख का धरमु अगै रथवाहु ॥
Saṯjug rath sanṯokẖ kā ḏẖaram agai rathvāhu.
In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, contentment was the chariot and righteousness the charioteer.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਰਥੁ ਜਤੈ ਕਾ ਜੋਰੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ
त्रेतै रथु जतै का जोरु अगै रथवाहु ॥
Ŧareṯai rath jaṯai kā jor agai rathvāhu.
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, celibacy was the chariot and power the charioteer.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਰਥੁ ਤਪੈ ਕਾ ਸਤੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ
दुआपुरि रथु तपै का सतु अगै रथवाहु ॥
Ḏu▫āpur rath ṯapai kā saṯ agai rathvāhu.
In the Brass Age of Dwaapar Yuga, penance was the chariot and truth the charioteer.

ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਰਥੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਕਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਅਗੈ ਰਥਵਾਹੁ ॥੧॥
कलजुगि रथु अगनि का कूड़ु अगै रथवाहु ॥१॥
Kaljug rath agan kā kūṛ agai rathvāhu. ||1||
In the Iron Age of Kali Yuga, fire is the chariot and falsehood the charioteer. ||1||
I recently posted something about the Chakravartin in Buddhism. Chakravartin means “the one through which the wheel of dharma turns”. Chakra means wheel, like the dharma chakra that appears on the Indian flag.

The chariot is denoting the dharma (religious path)

The charioteer is what is driving this dharma

The destination is the Beloved. Reunification of the soul with God.


In age after age they change. This means throughout history, different religious paths have arisen to unite the soul with God and achieve liberation.

In Sat Yuga, the religious path was contentment and the driving force was righteousness

In Traytaa Yuga, the religious path was celibacy and the driving force was power

In Dwaapar Yuga, the religious path was penance and the driving force was truth

In Kali Yuga, the religious path is fire and the driving force is falsehood.


The takeaway from this shabadh is the same as the original one you posted. Different religious paths became fashionable in different time periods. It does not matter which religious path you follow. What matter most is humility and loving devotion. Without humility and love, you will not be reunited with the Beloved.
 

japjisahib04

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Sherdil Jee,

My take is different. For example on one hand gurbani says, 'kalyug mai kirtan pardhana but on the other hand, in the current sabd guru sahib says, 'In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God and version of kadnapping and rape by sri Krishan is just a notion, then what are those four veds guru sahib is alluding to read in order to be sachair, 'charai vaid hoey sachiar'.

Further in kalyug mai kirtan pardhana, Guru sahib is not referring to chaina, tabla kirtan but of manh da kirtan(chattering - confusion). And does kaljug applies only to Indian. I came across a pankti, 'sultana gha karieda - the manh, the ruler of my body drags me into superfluous work and as such I enter into confusion - an era of kala kala - kalyug'. Thus word 'pardhana' does not stands for priorities but for maneuvering and guru sahib is guiding me, in a state of duality kalyug to shift your manh to satyug - divine traits.

Even otherwise when gurbani says, 'ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੈਲ ਬਿਰਾਨੇ ਹੁਈ ਹੈ ॥ ਫਾਟੇ ਨਾਕਨ ਟੂਟੇ ਕਾਧਨ ਕੋਦਉ ਕੋ ਭੁਸੁ ਖਈਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ when the Bull is not standing on all the four feets but one, it is a state of kalyug and when Bull is standing with the support of two feets, it is a state of duaper and so on.
 

Sherdil

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
japjisahibji04 said:
...then what are those four veds guru sahib is alluding to read in order to be sachair, 'charai vaid hoey sachiar'.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]They are the 4 books he listed in the previous lines. "Hoey sachiaar" means they came to be considered true by the people. He is not saying they are true for us or that we should read them.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਹੂਆ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਅਲਹੁ ਭਇਆ ॥[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਲੇ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰੇ ਤੁਰਕ ਪਠਾਣੀ ਅਮਲੁ ਕੀਆ ॥[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Men began to wear blue robes and garments; Turks and Pat'haans assumed power.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The above is taken from the original shabadh posted. This is describing the Mughal and Afghan invasions of the subcontinent. Also, the Atharva Veda is associated with ritualism and superstition, which were very prevalent in Guru Nanak's time. That's why in the second shabadh, guru ji says that in Kali Yuga the path is fire which is driven by falsehood.[/FONT]
 

japjisahib04

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Let us check once again from Guru sahib whether there really exist physical Yug, first of all. ਸੋਈ ਚੰਦੁ ਚੜਹਿ ਸੇ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਦਿਨੀਅਰੁ ਤਪਤ ਰਹੈ ॥ ਸਾ ਧਰਤੀ ਸੋ ਪਉਣੁ ਝੁਲਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਜੀਅ ਖੇਲੇ ਥਾਵ ਕੈਸੇ ॥੧॥ SGGS.902. Apparently, as per my understanding, Guru Sahib is addressing the Pundit that “it’s the fear of tyrants that is playing as KaliYug (kal kal - a confused state) in the minds of the people and that is the only kaliyug that you have created. I have not seen or heard about the Kaliyug occupying any particular location or at any particular time. Because, it was and it has the same Moon, stars and the Sun that existed at all times in Satyug, traita yug, Duaapar yug and Kaliyug etc. etc. It is the same earth and the same winds blowing all the time.
Let us see how you understand and interpret before we proceed further.
 

Sherdil

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GGS, page 902:

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ
रामकली महला १ असटपदीआ
Rāmkalī mėhlā 1 asatpaḏī▫ā
Raamkalee, First Mehl, Ashtapadees:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਸੋਈ ਚੰਦੁ ਚੜਹਿ ਸੇ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਦਿਨੀਅਰੁ ਤਪਤ ਰਹੈ
सोई चंदु चड़हि से तारे सोई दिनीअरु तपत रहै ॥
So▫ī cẖanḏ cẖaṛėh se ṯāre so▫ī ḏinī▫ar ṯapaṯ rahai.
The same moon rises, and the same stars; the same sun shines in the sky.

ਸਾ ਧਰਤੀ ਸੋ ਪਉਣੁ ਝੁਲਾਰੇ ਜੁਗ ਜੀਅ ਖੇਲੇ ਥਾਵ ਕੈਸੇ ॥੧॥
सा धरती सो पउणु झुलारे जुग जीअ खेले थाव कैसे ॥१॥
Sā ḏẖarṯī so pa▫uṇ jẖulāre jug jī▫a kẖele thāv kaise. ||1||
The earth is the same, and the same wind blows. The age in which we dwell affects living beings, but not these places. ||1||

ਜੀਵਨ ਤਲਬ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ
जीवन तलब निवारि ॥
Jīvan ṯalab nivār.
Give up your attachment to life.

ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਲਖਣ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
होवै परवाणा करहि धिङाणा कलि लखण वीचारि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Hovai parvāṇā karahi ḏẖińāṇā kal lakẖaṇ vīcẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Those who act like tyrants are accepted and approved - recognize that this is the sign of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||1||Pause||

ਕਿਤੈ ਦੇਸਿ ਆਇਆ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਤੀਰਥ ਪਾਸਿ ਬੈਠਾ
कितै देसि न आइआ सुणीऐ तीरथ पासि न बैठा ॥
Kiṯai ḏes na ā▫i▫ā suṇī▫ai ṯirath pās na baiṯẖā.
Kali Yuga has not been heard to have come to any country, or to be sitting at any sacred shrine.

ਦਾਤਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਤਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਹਲ ਉਸਾਰਿ ਬੈਠਾ ॥੨॥
दाता दानु करे तह नाही महल उसारि न बैठा ॥२॥
Ḏāṯā ḏān kare ṯah nāhī mahal usār na baiṯẖā. ||2||
It is not where the generous person gives to charities, nor seated in the mansion he has built. ||2||

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਤੁ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਛੀਜੈ ਤਪ ਘਰਿ ਤਪੁ ਹੋਈ
जे को सतु करे सो छीजै तप घरि तपु न होई ॥
Je ko saṯ kare so cẖẖījai ṯap gẖar ṯap na ho▫ī.
If someone practices Truth, he is frustrated; prosperity does not come to the home of the sincere.

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ਲਏ ਬਦਨਾਵੀ ਕਲਿ ਕੇ ਲਖਣ ਏਈ ॥੩॥
जे को नाउ लए बदनावी कलि के लखण एई ॥३॥
Je ko nā▫o la▫e baḏnāvī kal ke lakẖaṇ e▫ī. ||3||
If someone chants the Lord's Name, he is scorned. These are the signs of Kali Yuga. ||3||

ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਖੁਆਰੀ ਚਾਕਰ ਕੇਹੇ ਡਰਣਾ
जिसु सिकदारी तिसहि खुआरी चाकर केहे डरणा ॥
Jis sikḏārī ṯisėh kẖu▫ārī cẖākar kehe darṇā.
Whoever is in charge, is humiliated. Why should the servant be afraid,

ਜਾ ਸਿਕਦਾਰੈ ਪਵੈ ਜੰਜੀਰੀ ਤਾ ਚਾਕਰ ਹਥਹੁ ਮਰਣਾ ॥੪॥
जा सिकदारै पवै जंजीरी ता चाकर हथहु मरणा ॥४॥
Jā sikḏārai pavai janjīrī ṯā cẖākar hathahu marṇā. ||4||
when the master is put in chains? He dies at the hands of his servant. ||4||

ਆਖੁ ਗੁਣਾ ਕਲਿ ਆਈਐ
आखु गुणा कलि आईऐ ॥
Ākẖ guṇā kal ā▫ī▫ai.
Chant the Praises of the Lord; Kali Yuga has come.

ਤਿਹੁ ਜੁਗ ਕੇਰਾ ਰਹਿਆ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਦੇਹਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
तिहु जुग केरा रहिआ तपावसु जे गुण देहि त पाईऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ŧihu jug kerā rahi▫ā ṯapāvas je guṇ ḏėh ṯa pā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The justice of the previous three ages is gone. One obtains virtue, only if the Lord bestows it. ||1||Pause||

ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਸਰਾ ਨਿਬੇੜੀ ਕਾਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਹੋਆ
कलि कलवाली सरा निबेड़ी काजी क्रिसना होआ ॥
Kal kalvālī sarā nibeṛī kājī krisanā ho▫ā.
In this turbulent age of Kali Yuga, Muslim law decides the cases, and the blue-robed Qazi is the judge.

ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਲਹਿਆ ॥੫॥
बाणी ब्रहमा बेदु अथरबणु करणी कीरति लहिआ ॥५॥
Baṇī barahmā beḏ atharbaṇ karṇī kīraṯ lahi▫ā. ||5||
The Guru's Bani has taken the place of Brahma's Veda, and the singing of the Lord's Praises are good deeds. ||5||

ਪਤਿ ਵਿਣੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਸਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਜਤ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਾਹੇ ਜਨੇਊ
पति विणु पूजा सत विणु संजमु जत विणु काहे जनेऊ ॥
Paṯ viṇ pūjā saṯ viṇ sanjam jaṯ viṇ kāhe jane▫ū.
Worship without faith; self-discipline without truthfulness; the ritual of the sacred thread without chastity - what good are these?

ਨਾਵਹੁ ਧੋਵਹੁ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਚੜਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਚ ਵਿਣੁ ਸੋਚ ਹੋਈ ॥੬॥
नावहु धोवहु तिलकु चड़ावहु सुच विणु सोच न होई ॥६॥
Nāvhu ḏẖovahu ṯilak cẖaṛāvahu sucẖ viṇ socẖ na ho▫ī. ||6||
You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. ||6||

ਕਲਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ
कलि परवाणु कतेब कुराणु ॥
Kal parvāṇ kaṯeb kurāṇ.
In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous.

ਪੋਥੀ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਹੇ ਪੁਰਾਣ
पोथी पंडित रहे पुराण ॥
Pothī pandiṯ rahe purāṇ.
The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਭਇਆ ਰਹਮਾਣੁ
नानक नाउ भइआ रहमाणु ॥
Nānak nā▫o bẖa▫i▫ā rėhmāṇ.
O Nanak, the Lord's Name now is Rehmaan, the Merciful.

ਕਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥੭॥
करि करता तू एको जाणु ॥७॥
Kar karṯā ṯū eko jāṇ. ||7||
Know that there is only One Creator of the creation. ||7||

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਏਦੂ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਨਹੀ
नानक नामु मिलै वडिआई एदू उपरि करमु नही ॥
Nānak nām milai vadi▫ā▫ī eḏū upar karam nahī.
Nanak has obtained the glorious greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. There is no action higher than this.

ਜੇ ਘਰਿ ਹੋਦੈ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਲਾਮਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਹੀ ॥੮॥੧॥
जे घरि होदै मंगणि जाईऐ फिरि ओलामा मिलै तही ॥८॥१॥
Je gẖar hoḏai mangaṇ jā▫ī▫ai fir olāmā milai ṯahī. ||8||1||
If someone goes out to beg for what is already in his own home, then he should be chastised. ||8||1||
<style type="text/css">P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }</style> My interpretation is that the time period is defined by what the society values by and large. Whether or not there were periods in human history where society was more truthful is immaterial. The previous yugs are employed as a literary tool in juxtaposition to Kali Yuga. For all intensive purposes Kali Yuga is referring to the here and now. By comparing and contrasting the present with the mythical past, Guru ji is illustrating just how messed up today's society is. The present society is driven by falsehood. That is why it is referred to as Kali Yuga (Dark Age). Today, we see people are steeped in rituals and superstition. The populace is far from the Divine. There is a rise in babas, deras, Christian missionary activity and Islamic extremism. These problems are not new. They existed in Guru Nanak's time as well.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,666
14,279
70
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
just musing...is it Kal_yug (the Machine Age ) ?? man's History has distinct Ages....Hunting..Agriculture...BRONZE age, IRON Age and Finally the Machine Age running now. Kal/Kala..Art..the Age of Machines and Inventions....
 

japjisahib04

Mentor
SPNer
Jan 22, 2005
822
1,291
kuwait
I am serious Gyani Jee and referring to spiritual age. When Gurusahib in the very first pauree states, 'ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ - laws of nature is the will of God and these laws - the divine message is ingrained within us, then how could Guru Nanak contradict and endorse four different ages. Gurbani tells me, 'ਜਿਸੁ ਜਲ ਨਿਧਿ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਤੁਮ ਜਗਿ ਆਏ ਸੋ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਾਹੀ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਛੋਡਹੁ ਵੇਸੁ ਭੇਖ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਇਹੁ ਫਲੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ SGGS 598.4
 

Sherdil

Writer
SPNer
Jan 20, 2014
438
874
I don't get the impression that Guru ji is endorsing a belief in these ages. Gurmat philosophy does not require a belief in yugs, but Guru Nanak was the first Sikh. He traveled far and wide having discourse with the spiritual authorities of his time. To communicate with them, he had to use their terminology otherwise he would be dismissed as a layman. As a poet, he is giving social commentary on the present time. He is not giving us a history lesson.
 

Sherdil

Writer
SPNer
Jan 20, 2014
438
874
Please see this as well.

GGS, page 1:

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
ੴ सति नामु करता पुरखु निरभउ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਪੁ
जपु ॥
Jap.
Chant And Meditate:
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ
आदि सचु जुगादि सचु ॥
Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.
True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥੧॥
है भी सचु नानक होसी भी सचु ॥१॥
Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||
True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||
</td></tr></tbody></table>
 

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