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Can Faith In The Satguru Ever Be Blind?

spnadmin

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I am troubled by this question. Guruji so many times speaks to us, saying that our liberation mukhti comes when we "see" and when we are not blind. I have copied this shabad from sri Raag, as a beginning for my own contemplation of this question.

Is this blind faith: Without the Lord, my soul is scorched and burnt. I consulted my Guru, and now I see that there is no other place at all. ||1|

The shabad

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:


ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥
raag sireeraag mehalaa pehilaa 1 ghar 1 ||
Raag Siree Raag, First Mehl, First House:


ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉ ॥
mothee th mandhar oosarehi rathanee th hohi jarraao ||
If I had a palace made of pearls, inlaid with jewels,


ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ ॥
kasathoor kungoo agar chandhan leep aavai chaao ||
scented with musk, saffron and sandalwood, a sheer delight to behold


ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||1||
-
seeing this, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||1||


ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥
har bin jeeo jal bal jaao ||
Without the Lord, my soul is scorched and burnt.


ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
mai aapanaa gur pooshh dhaekhiaa avar naahee thhaao ||1|| rehaao ||
I consulted my Guru, and now I
see that there is no other place at all. ||1||Pause||


ਧਰਤੀ ਤ ਹੀਰੇ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਤੀ ਪਲਘਿ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਾਉ ॥
dhharathee th heerae laal jarrathee palagh laal jarraao ||
If the floor of this palace was a mosaic of diamonds and rubies, and if my bed was encased with rubies,


ਮੋਹਣੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਣੀ ਸੋਹੈ ਕਰੇ ਰੰਗਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥
mohanee mukh manee sohai karae rang pasaao ||
and if heavenly beauties, their faces adorned with emeralds, tried to entice me with sensual gestures of love


ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੨॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||2||
-
seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||2||

ਸਿਧੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਈ ਰਿਧਿ ਆਖਾ ਆਉ ॥
sidhh hovaa sidhh laaee ridhh aakhaa aao ||
If I were to become a Siddha, and work miracles, summon wealth


ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥
gupath paragatt hoe baisaa lok raakhai bhaao ||
and become invisible and visible at will, so that people would hold me in awe


ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||3||
-
seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||3||


ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਮੇਲਿ ਲਸਕਰ ਤਖਤਿ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਉ ॥
sulathaan hovaa mael lasakar thakhath raakhaa paao ||
If I were to become an emperor and raise a huge army, and sit on a throne,


ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਸਲੁ ਕਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਭ ਵਾਉ ॥
hukam haasal karee baithaa naanakaa sabh vaao ||
issuing commands and collecting taxes-O Nanak, all of this could pass away like a puff of wind.


ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੧॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||4||1||
Seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||4||1||

The shabad is from the house of Guru Nanak Dev on Ang 14 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.

There is no blindness spoken of in the shabad but rather the shabad talks about "seeing", awareness. Awareness is described as torn between seeing the Lord and seeing the delightful creatons of our senses and mind, believing and taking them for the truth. The richness of palaces, their mosaics of diamonds and rubies, the scent of musk, saffron and sandalwood, the apparent power of holy men who can become invisible, and then visible, and summon wealth, the power of leadership, huge armies, wealth-- seeing these our eyes lead us astray.

Could it be that blind faith in the truth of these illusions is the real blind faith?

 
Dear Ma'am,

Thers is no harm in enjoying material pleasures like living in a lavish House , earning huge money, getting married & starting a family.

Awareness here indicates that we should neither indulge in anything too much (perfo nor should we renounce it completely but rather we should be aware ( for what purpose we have taken birth) all the time.

This is the beauty of Nanak's message. Unlike many other prophets or sages who completely left their family to attain enlightment ( Buddha included) & many people who perform strict practices like fasting etc, Praying to demi gods, sacrificing animals to make their deity happy Nanak claimed that salvation can be attained by avoiding those strict & rather needless practices and living the life of a householder (Married man). & reciting naam & contemplating on it.


The main message of Granth sahib can be explained in words of Guru Nanak

हसंदिआ खेलंदिआ पैनंदिआ खावंदिआ विचे होवै मुकति ॥२॥ While laughing more often, playing, dressing in style and eating healthy food, salvation should be attained

Nanak says here that while enjoying the life of a householder (married life) but always following the right path as prescribed by our legendary gurus the salvation can be achieved.

Nanak advocated that we should always remain aware of our main purpose while at the same time we can enjoy material pleasure (earned in truthful way) as well.

Temptations of sex & money might deviate us from the right path so we have to be very strong mentally.
 

Randip Singh

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I am troubled by this question. Guruji so many times speaks to us, saying that our liberation mukhti comes when we "see" and when we are not blind. I have copied this shabad from sri Raag, as a beginning for my own contemplation of this question.

Is this blind faith: Without the Lord, my soul is scorched and burnt. I consulted my Guru, and now I see that there is no other place at all. ||1|

The shabad

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:


ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥
raag sireeraag mehalaa pehilaa 1 ghar 1 ||
Raag Siree Raag, First Mehl, First House:


ਮੋਤੀ ਤ ਮੰਦਰ ਊਸਰਹਿ ਰਤਨੀ ਤ ਹੋਹਿ ਜੜਾਉ ॥
mothee th mandhar oosarehi rathanee th hohi jarraao ||
If I had a palace made of pearls, inlaid with jewels,

ਕਸਤੂਰਿ ਕੁੰਗੂ ਅਗਰਿ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਲੀਪਿ ਆਵੈ ਚਾਉ ॥
kasathoor kungoo agar chandhan leep aavai chaao ||
scented with musk, saffron and sandalwood, a sheer delight to behold

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||1||
-
seeing this, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||1||


ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਜੀਉ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥
har bin jeeo jal bal jaao ||
Without the Lord, my soul is scorched and burnt.


ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
mai aapanaa gur pooshh dhaekhiaa avar naahee thhaao ||1|| rehaao ||
I consulted my Guru, and now I
see that there is no other place at all. ||1||Pause||


ਧਰਤੀ ਤ ਹੀਰੇ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਤੀ ਪਲਘਿ ਲਾਲ ਜੜਾਉ ॥
dhharathee th heerae laal jarrathee palagh laal jarraao ||
If the floor of this palace was a mosaic of diamonds and rubies, and if my bed was encased with rubies,

ਮੋਹਣੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਣੀ ਸੋਹੈ ਕਰੇ ਰੰਗਿ ਪਸਾਉ ॥
mohanee mukh manee sohai karae rang pasaao ||
and if heavenly beauties, their faces adorned with emeralds, tried to entice me with sensual gestures of love


ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੨॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||2||
-
seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||2||

ਸਿਧੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਲਾਈ ਰਿਧਿ ਆਖਾ ਆਉ ॥
sidhh hovaa sidhh laaee ridhh aakhaa aao ||
If I were to become a Siddha, and work miracles, summon wealth


ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥
gupath paragatt hoe baisaa lok raakhai bhaao ||
and become invisible and visible at will, so that people would hold me in awe

ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||3||
-
seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||3||


ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਹੋਵਾ ਮੇਲਿ ਲਸਕਰ ਤਖਤਿ ਰਾਖਾ ਪਾਉ ॥
sulathaan hovaa mael lasakar thakhath raakhaa paao ||
If I were to become an emperor and raise a huge army, and sit on a throne,


ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਸਲੁ ਕਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸਭ ਵਾਉ ॥
hukam haasal karee baithaa naanakaa sabh vaao ||
issuing commands and collecting taxes-O Nanak, all of this could pass away like a puff of wind.


ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੧॥
math dhaekh bhoolaa veesarai thaeraa chith n aavai naao ||4||1||
Seeing these, I might go astray and forget You, and Your Name would not enter into my mind. ||4||1||

The shabad is from the house of Guru Nanak Dev on Ang 14 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.

There is no blindness spoken of in the shabad but rather the shabad talks about "seeing", awareness. Awareness is described as torn between seeing the Lord and seeing the delightful creatons of our senses and mind, believing and taking them for the truth. The richness of palaces, their mosaics of diamonds and rubies, the scent of musk, saffron and sandalwood, the apparent power of holy men who can become invisible, and then visible, and summon wealth, the power of leadership, huge armies, wealth-- seeing these our eyes lead us astray.

Could it be that blind faith in the truth of these illusions is the real blind faith?
I could be wrong but is this shabad using examples of Kaam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh, and Hankaar that may make the mind wander, and take one away from the path of the Gurmukh?
 
Dear Sir,

These verses are self explanatory.
Guru nanak prays to the supreme that if by some temptation he deviates from the right path he should be at the mercy of god who will bring him back (but off course that never happened). Nanak is emphasising the importance of a true guru (his guru is nirankar almighty) who will lead u in the right direction.
 

spnadmin

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I could be wrong but is this shabad using examples of Kaam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh, and Hankaar that may make the mind wander, and take one away from the path of the Gurmukh?
The shabad does use examples of the 5 theives -- that take one away from the Guru. But in the shabad one is "seeing" those examples and is pulled by their attractiveness toward the 5 evils.

The poetic structure of the shabad is having us consider "seeing" one kind of thing and going in one direction; or "seeing" the Divine and going in another direction.

Is it possible that blind faith in the truth of the senses is what leads one into the direction of Kaam, Krodh, Moh,Lobh and Ahankar, and away from the Satguru?

Again my question -- how can faith in the Satguru ever be blind, per Gurbani? :)
 
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pk70

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Satguru experienced the Lord, to have that experience, one must follow what Guru says to experience Him, so it is not to have blind faith but to follow instruction prfectly; if our own intellect could help us we wouldn't need Guru, but it doesn't, so we need Guru and we need to abandon what we have in our head; hyper rationality calls it" blind faith". Thats all.
 

spnadmin

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Satguru experienced the Lord, to have that experience, one must follow what Guru says to experience Him, so it is not to have blind faith but to follow instruction prfectly; if our own intellect could help us we wouldn't need Guru, but it doesn't, so we need Guru and we need to abandon what we have in our head; hyper rationality calls it" blind faith". Thats all.
What about blind obedience? I don't think faith is blind. But rather people confuse blind faith with blind obedience.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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The GURU..is the LIGHT.
In a dark room we cannot "see" naything even though its all right there...
BUT just pull the light switch..and the moment the light bulb lights up the room with LIGHT..we can SEE every single thing....
Its NOT the Light Bulb/light rays per se that "see"..its our eyes/brain that sees....the light just helps us see...
That is the GURU. FOLLOW his instructions (Gurbani) as closely as possible..and lo and behold..the eyes open and we see (in the light of Gurbani) GURBANI IS JAGG MEHN CHANNAN !!

2. A small story. A man who used to always and faithfully attend Gurdwara and do sewa and eat langgar...overnight stopped doing that when he struck a lottery..and began to go clubbing/disco..and drinking away. People said..all that MONEY spoiled him..spoiled a good holy man...
I SAY.... no....the money didnt spoil him... the MONEY is just the light bulb that showed all the KOORR (Rubbish) that he had stored inside him all along...he was just coming to Gurdwara as he ahd nowhere else to go..having no money to enter Clubs.buy whiskey and pay for dancing girls/ etc etc.... once he got the means..he showed his true colours !!
THE GURU is THAT..He allows YOU and ME to show the true colours !!

Happy Diwali or Bandi Chorr Diwas !! (any which way one likes - for me its just a holiday to laze around and eat lots of Barfee/Khoya/jalebis...)

Jarnail Singh:happy:
 

spnadmin

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Giani ji


ਅੰਧੇ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਤਾ ਥੀਐ ਜਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਰਜਾਇ ॥
andhhae chaanan thaa thheeai jaa sathigur milai rajaae ||
The blind receive the Divine Light, when they merge with the Will of the True Guru.


ਬੰਧਨ ਤੋੜੈ ਸਚਿ ਵਸੈ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਅਧੇਰਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
bandhhan thorrai sach vasai agiaan adhhaeraa jaae ||
They break their bonds, and dwell in Truth, and the darkness of ignorance is dispelled.


ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਤਿਸੈ ਕਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ਤਨੁ ਸਾਜਿ ॥
sabh kishh dhaekhai thisai kaa jin keeaa than saaj ||
They see that everything belongs to the One who created and fashioned the body.


ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਣਿ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਰਾਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੨॥
naanak saran karathaar kee karathaa raakhai laaj ||2||
Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Creator - the Creator preserves his honor. ||2||

Ang 551

This shabad seems to match what you are saying. Two lines from a hymn called Amazing Grace.

I once was blind, but now i see.
Once lost, but now I am found.


Enjoy Diwali with all that wonderful food. :wah:
 
For whatever path you follow faith has to be there. Anyone following the path of sense pleasure must be a firm believer that life is all about enjoying & earning money.

One who follows the path of spirituality must be a believer in the teachings of Granth sahib, Gita or any living guru of his.

Without faith noting can stand. Not any relationship can survive without it.

But what is more important is that people need results irrespective of the path they choose to follow. If you had practice meditation for last 1 year without any results then definitely you will be tempted to leave that path.

Once the satisfaction level (can vary from person to person) increases then faith in an authority also increases.

A person (Nanak) who has followed a particular path and found it the only way to live life will encourage others as well to follow that path.

He will definitely say that follow me and i will lead you to where every human is supposed to be. This is advocated by Krishna in Gita, Christ in his teachings & Nanak in granth sahib.
 
Oct 14, 2007
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I have gone through the topic/title and the first post. Without any disrespect to anyone, I do not feel comfortable with the word 'Blind faith'. In my opinion alternative like 'Total faith' could have been more appropriate.

Needless to state that 'blind faith' conveys that one is forced to have faith while development of faith should be natural and it may take some time. Blind faith also gives the obnoxious feeling to the novice like me.

I am reminded of Maskeen ji's lecture in which he stated that faith is the basic edifice of Gurmat.
 

Astroboy

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Twinkle, twinkle little star
how I wonder what you are
up above the world so high
like a diamond in the sky

ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
रागु धनासरी महला १ ॥
Rāg ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 1.
Raag Dhanaasree, First Mehl:

ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ ਰਵਿ ਚੰਦੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਬਨੇ ਤਾਰਿਕਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਜਨਕ ਮੋਤੀ
गगन मै थालु रवि चंदु दीपक बने तारिका मंडल जनक मोती ॥
Gagan mai thāl rav cẖanḏ ḏīpak bane ṯārikā mandal janak moṯī.
Upon that cosmic plate of the sky, the sun and the moon are the lamps. The stars and their orbs are the studded pearls.

ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥
धूपु मलआनलो पवणु चवरो करे सगल बनराइ फूलंत जोती ॥१॥
Ḏẖūp mal▫ānlo pavaṇ cẖavro kare sagal banrā▫e fūlanṯ joṯī. ||1||
The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

ਕੈਸੀ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ
कैसी आरती होइ ॥
Kaisī ārṯī ho▫e.
What a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service this is!

ਭਵ ਖੰਡਨਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਰਤੀ
भव खंडना तेरी आरती ॥
Bẖav kẖandnā ṯerī ārṯī.
O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Ceremony of Light.

ਅਨਹਤਾ ਸਬਦ ਵਾਜੰਤ ਭੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
अनहता सबद वाजंत भेरी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Anhaṯā sabaḏ vājanṯ bẖerī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad is the vibration of the temple drums. ||1||Pause||
 

Astroboy

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Guru Nanak is truly a modern day healer of the ailing mind of man and thru his bani he gives us the greater picture. Without our beloved Guru we would still be grooping in the dark influenced by priests and priestesses; using talismen, various ceremonies, incantations, amulets, rings, relics and images.

For example, in the religions of antiquity priests in the ancient temples gave drugs to their patients and practiced hypnotic suggestions as the went to sleep. The patients were told that the gods would surely visit them in their sleep and heal them.

The snares and potholes are many in this dark world. Without the Guru, we are doomed to untold grief and unhappiness.

ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
धनासरी महला ४ ॥
Ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 4.
Dhanaasaree, Fourth Mehl:

ਹਮ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਅੰਧ ਬਿਖੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਰਾਤੇ ਕਿਉ ਚਾਲਹ ਗੁਰ ਚਾਲੀ
हम अंधुले अंध बिखै बिखु राते किउ चालह गुर चाली ॥
Ham anḏẖule anḏẖ bikẖai bikẖ rāṯe ki▫o cẖālah gur cẖālī.
I am blind, totally blind, entangled in corruption and poison. How can I walk on the Guru's Path?

ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਹਮ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਪਨ ਪਾਲੀ ॥੧॥
सतगुरु दइआ करे सुखदाता हम लावै आपन पाली ॥१॥
Saṯgur ḏa▫i▫ā kare sukẖ▫ḏāṯa ham lāvai āpan pālī. ||1||
If the True Guru, the Giver of peace, shows His kindness, He attaches us to the hem of His robe. ||1||

ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਮੀਤ ਚਲਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਚਾਲੀ
गुरसिख मीत चलहु गुर चाली ॥
Gursikẖ mīṯ cẖalhu gur cẖālī.
O Sikhs of the Guru, O friends, walk on the Guru's Path.

ਜੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਭਲ ਮਾਨਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
जो गुरु कहै सोई भल मानहु हरि हरि कथा निराली ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jo gur kahai so▫ī bẖal mānhu har har kathā nirālī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Whatever the Guru says, accept that as good; the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har, is unique and wonderful. ||1||Pause||
 
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Interested

SPNer
May 31, 2007
17
7
London
I have just been reading this thread and usually I am the silent one - read and taking notes to better understand. I am going to refer to the concept of 'blind' here and i may very well be wrong (actually more then likely) but please correct me. We all know our own levels of love for God and I can not even begin to contemplate the enormity that our Gurus felt and unshakenly held to. But our Gurus were humble and even that devotion that they all achieved and we long for was not enough (they scribe). Could the term 'blind' (as used above for example: I am blind, totally blind, entangled in corruption and poison. How can I walk on the Guru's Path?)be that we will never be able to completely free ourselves from the 5 evils. We will never be "good/aware" enough in regards to what the Lord has done for us?
Moreso, my thoughts go further at this point and some things are never going to be answerable. faith is knowing without having to physically touch, smell, see, taste or hear something. Maybe it is this that "blind" refers to at other times. Could it be?
Please let me know what you think here. I am very keen to develop a deeper understanding of my Guru's words!!
 

Interested

SPNer
May 31, 2007
17
7
London
I went away and pondered and had to come back to place this too. I say that I can only delude myself to even begin to contemplate the devotion that our Gurus held and bare this in mind as I write my next thought...
Do you think that although we need to understand and implement the teachings of our Gurus that sometimes we may over analyse and interpret their meanings? Loosing the all important messages that are embedded in them. Sri Guru Granth Sahib needs to be taken in wholey. To pull apart one part/word/syllabul/phoneme is too loose sight of what is being taught? Have we complicated the most delightful, amazing and simplest concept of all - There is 1 God, his name is truth!!!! Maybe I just have blind faith?
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
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Socrates said, know thyself

Gurbani says,
Mann Tu Jot Swaroop Hai,
Apna Mool Pachaan

The law of the mind, according to Joseph Murphy, is the law of belief. This means to believe in the way your mind works, to believe in belief itself. The belief of your mind is the thought of your mind, just that and nothing else.

All your experiences, events, conditions, and acts are produced by your subconscious mind in reaction to your thoughts. It is not the thing believed in, but the belief in your own mind that brings the results.

Stop accepting the false beliefs, opinions, superstitions, and fears that plague our humankind. Begin to believe in the eternal truths and verities that never change. At that point, you will move onward, upward and Godward.
 

kiram

SPNer
Jan 26, 2008
278
338
I went away and pondered and had to come back to place this too. I say that I can only delude myself to even begin to contemplate the devotion that our Gurus held and bare this in mind as I write my next thought...
Do you think that although we need to understand and implement the teachings of our Gurus that sometimes we may over analyse and interpret their meanings? Loosing the all important messages that are embedded in them. Sri Guru Granth Sahib needs to be taken in wholey. To pull apart one part/word/syllabul/phoneme is too loose sight of what is being taught? Have we complicated the most delightful, amazing and simplest concept of all - There is 1 God, his name is truth!!!! Maybe I just have blind faith?
ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ
Nāmḏev jī.
Naam Dayv Jee:

ਮੈ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਕੀ ਟੇਕ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਖੁੰਦਕਾਰਾ
Mai anḏẖule kī tek ṯerā nām kẖunḏkārā.
I am blind; Your Name, O Creator Lord, is my only anchor and support.

ਮੈ ਗਰੀਬ ਮੈ ਮਸਕੀਨ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਅਧਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
Mai garīb mai maskīn ṯerā nām hai aḏẖārā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I am poor, and I am meek. Your Name is my only support. ||1||Pause||

ਕਰੀਮਾਂ ਰਹੀਮਾਂ ਅਲਾਹ ਤੂ ਗਨੀ
Karīmāʼn rahīmāʼn alāh ṯū ganīʼn.
O beautiful Lord, benevolent and merciful Lord, You are so wealthy and generous.

ਹਾਜਰਾ ਹਜੂਰਿ ਦਰਿ ਪੇਸਿ ਤੂੰ ਮਨੀ ॥੧॥
Hājrā hajūr ḏar pes ṯūʼn manīʼn. ||1||
You are ever-present in every presence, within and before me. ||1||

ਦਰੀਆਉ ਤੂ ਦਿਹੰਦ ਤੂ ਬਿਸੀਆਰ ਤੂ ਧਨੀ
Ḏarī▫ā▫o ṯū ḏihanḏ ṯū bisī▫ār ṯū ḏẖanī.
You are the river of life, You are the Giver of all; You are so very wealthy.

ਦੇਹਿ ਲੇਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਤੂੰ ਦਿਗਰ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ॥੨॥
Ḏėh lehi ek ṯūʼn ḏigar ko nahī. ||2||
You alone give, and You alone take away; there is no other at all. ||2||

ਤੂੰ ਦਾਨਾਂ ਤੂੰ ਬੀਨਾਂ ਮੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀ
Ŧūʼn ḏānāʼn ṯūʼn bīnāʼn mai bīcẖār ki▫ā karī.
You are wise, You are the supreme seer; how could I make You an object of thought?

ਨਾਮੇ ਚੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਬਖਸੰਦ ਤੂੰ ਹਰੀ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥
Nāme cẖe su▫āmī bakẖsanḏ ṯūʼn harī. ||3||1||2||
O Lord and Master of Naam Dayv, You are the merciful Lord of forgiveness. ||3||1||2||
 
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pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
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627
USA
I have just been reading this thread and usually I am the silent one - read and taking notes to better understand. I am going to refer to the concept of 'blind' here and i may very well be wrong (actually more then likely) but please correct me. We all know our own levels of love for God and I can not even begin to contemplate the enormity that our Gurus felt and unshakenly held to. But our Gurus were humble and even that devotion that they all achieved and we long for was not enough (they scribe). Could the term 'blind' (as used above for example: I am blind, totally blind, entangled in corruption and poison. How can I walk on the Guru's Path?)be that we will never be able to completely free ourselves from the 5 evils. We will never be "good/aware" enough in regards to what the Lord has done for us?
Moreso, my thoughts go further at this point and some things are never going to be answerable. faith is knowing without having to physically touch, smell, see, taste or hear something. Maybe it is this that "blind" refers to at other times. Could it be?
Please let me know what you think here. I am very keen to develop a deeper understanding of my Guru's words!!
Interested Ji

In this Guru Shabad, the word”blind” is used in metaphorically to convey a message of warning about being’s total involvement in Maya and due to it, becoming unable to follow Guru. Literally most of us so called Sikhs are unable to follow Guru, if analysis is done, we literally behave like blind that cannot see the path. I think it is very beautiful expression with a strong message with underlining warning. ਕਿਉ ਚਾਲਹ ਗੁਰ ਚਾਲੀ “ If all mind is into Maya, it is not possible to follow Guru. In the next Guru Vaak, prayer is done to be able to seek refuge in Guruਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਹਮ ਲਾਵੈ ਆਪਨ ਪਾਲੀ Up to this a plight of those ones is expressed who are unable to follow Guru, then prayer is done. Next comes direct advice from the Guru
ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਮੀਤ ਚਲਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਚਾਲੀ
Gursikẖ mīṯ cẖalhu gur cẖālī.
O Sikhs of the Guru, O friends, walk on the Guru's Path.

HOW?
ਜੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਭਲ ਮਾਨਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ਰਹਾਉ
Jo gur kahai so▫ī bẖal mānhu har har kathā nirālī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Whatever the Guru says( Guru says praise the Lord with all heart, live in His love), accept that as good(for you); the sermon of the Lord, Har, Har, is unique and wonderful( it change every thing). ||1||Pause||

In the above Guru Vaak, Guru ji expresses the way one should follow Guru. As it is clear, Guru asks followers to praise Lord and live in His love. This fact should be accepted and other influence of Maya must be abandon because it becomes hindrance. If what Guru says is accepted with full heart( mannya), change will occur, inability(blindness) to see the truth will be changed in to ability to walk on Guru path to unite with the Lord.
Hope it will help you in context of your question.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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ਗਉੜੀ ਬੈਰਾਗਣਿ ਮਹਲਾ
गउड़ी बैरागणि महला १ ॥
Ga▫oṛī bairāgaṇ mėhlā 1.
Gauree Bairaagan, First Mehl:

ਰੈਣਿ ਗਵਾਈ ਸੋਇ ਕੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਖਾਇ
रैणि गवाई सोइ कै दिवसु गवाइआ खाइ ॥
Raiṇ gavā▫ī so▫e kai ḏivas gavā▫i▫ā kẖā▫e.
The nights are wasted sleeping, and the days are wasted eating.

ਹੀਰੇ ਜੈਸਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਉਡੀ ਬਦਲੇ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥
हीरे जैसा जनमु है कउडी बदले जाइ ॥१॥
Hīre jaisā janam hai ka▫udī baḏle jā▫e. ||1||
Human life is such a precious jewel, but it is being lost in exchange for a mere shell. ||1||
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,608
ਮਹਲਾ
महला १ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:

ਜਾਲਉ ਐਸੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਮੈ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ
जालउ ऐसी रीति जितु मै पिआरा वीसरै ॥
Jāla▫o aisī rīṯ jiṯ mai pi▫ārā vīsrai.
Burn away those rituals which lead you to forget the Beloved Lord.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਪਰੀਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸੇਤੀ ਪਤਿ ਰਹੈ ॥੨॥
नानक साई भली परीति जितु साहिब सेती पति रहै ॥२॥
Nānak sā▫ī bẖalī parīṯ jiṯ sāhib seṯī paṯ rahai. ||2||
O Nanak, sublime is that love, which preserves my honor with my Lord Master. ||2||
 

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Featured Shabad

This shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev ji, and is found on Ang 1331 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Some of the key words have been translated for you, but you may have a better translation. Some words...

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