Bikramjit Singh Sandhar, The Young Sikh Leader

[Navdeep88]

The chairs/tables issue was only a small part of the change, its too much of an issue anyhow. Personally I'm happy on the floor. Langar could be served anywhere in the world this way. What if its in a disaster/impoverished zone, whos gonna provide the chairs and tables there? To sit on the floor is to level yourself with everyone, no matter where or who they might be cuz everyone can be there. Just my take.

As for the comment on him and his ilk, I dont think its a fair judgement. I'm glad him and his ilk are at the Gurdwara now, although Balwant the dinosaur is still trying to get himself back and run it as if he owns the gurdwara. I've noticed a significant difference in the events, seminars offered... just in general the level of involvement has gone way up. I'm 22 so when I compare the before and after, it is quite different. Before the Gurdwara was run by and accommodated to an older generation, now, the younger generation is being considered. There is an effort now to bring kids in to homework clubs, camps, sports activities... but the hope is that amongst the activities themselves, they will learn the values of Sikhi and embrace them.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

>>>>>>>>>>>>Langar could be served anywhere in the world this way. What if its in a disaster/impoverished zone, whos gonna provide the chairs and tables there? To sit on the floor is to level yourself with everyone, no matter where or who they might be cuz everyone can be there. Just my take.>>>>>>>>>>

This looks like Tables and chairs "MUST" be provided ?? NO Jios its NOT a MUST....its just COMMON SENSE. Just as In an "Earthquake zone/tsunami zone/atomic disaster zone.....WATER may NOT be available for BATHING....so is it safe to assume/ask..who will provide water for sangat to bathe in order to do nitnem ??..so that "clean" sevadaars can serve langgar ??? In such a time its NOT mandatory to Bathe !!..just a Panj-ishnana (wash face) is enough !! or even that is not needed if water is only for DRINKING...so a Langgar sevadaar who hasnt bathed/..is still clean enough to do seva of serving langgar !! How about UTENSILS/PLATES/...must they be washed???? or can langgar be served on disposable paper plates ?? or in JHOLEES as is Common in India BUT not everywhere else ??? ( Jholee is the "bag" one makes by lifting up the front of ones shirt (kurta) to hold rations in India...!! )
so IF in Tsunami japan tables/chairs are NOT there...langgar can be served on the FLOOR...BUT in Peacetime Kuala Lumpur..IF the tables and Chairs are already in place ( for decades) then it makes SENSE to serve langgar on TABLES rather than to ask..WHO WILL GO OUT and BUY Tapparrs >?? Mats ?? Floor Coverings ?? so that sangat may sit on the floor and NOT USE the excellent tables and chairs !!!

COMMON SENSE is MISSING from the FLOOR HUKMNAMAH. PERIOD.

 

[Navdeep88]

Gyani Ji,

I suppose you are right about the common sense. My experience with pangat is that I just see it as an extension of sitting in the darbar hall, we don't sit on chairs there. To me the same position, "level" etc, applies when I'm eating langar.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Common sense is not a good measure. Certainly there is no common sense in preferring death by torture to getting a haircut, yet that is exactly what is asked of us Sikhs, demanded of Khalsa.

I saw those dearest to me make the haircut or death (although not by torture) choice. They chose death and I honour them for it. I wouldn't have it any other way!

Crazy? Sure. I have always maintained that one has to have just a twinge of insanity to be a Sikh.


:sippingcoffee:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Sangat is "association"...company...being with....
Pangat is a Line..discipline....
Sangat and pangat....For Sangat we are imbibing "food for the Mann/mind"...and and so Physical conditions are unimportant. Seating on the Floor is best way of Maximising space vs number of people..and its suitable becasue the GURU is also seated at the same level. ( This Original Prampra is Maintained ONLY at Darbar sahib Amritsar whereby the GURU sits at the SAME LEVEL as the sangat. At ALL other Gurdwaras/takhats etc..the GURU has been "SEPARATED" from the Sikhs and placed on a High Pedestal/Palki that is further separated by Stainless steel barriers etc. IN Kirtan darbars shown live on Satellite TV..i often see the GURU is so UNAPPROACHABLE...so far high up in the Sky !! This is ultra Vires the ORIGINAL Prampara of the Guru kaal but no one seems to object/notice...or care that the GURU is getting higher and higher AWAY from His Sangats..and More and More like the Singers and entertainers who dance high in the sky on stages built 30 feet higher than the fans below...

2. Pangat by virtue of its MEANING itself is just an ORDERLY LINE of people seated so that SERVING cna be done easily and conveniently. There is no humility enhancement by sitting on the floor as compared to on chairs...IF for example..the RICH sit on special darees/soft pillows (on the floor) compared to bare floor for the others...compared to Hard bench for poor and luxurious cushioned chairs for the rich...so discrmination etc can happen at any level..in all the Gurdwaras I VISITED..i saw that ALL the chairs/tables were SIMILAR and anyone rich or poor could sit ant any place/table/chair. That is Pangat...BUT at many Gurdwaras in Punjab i saw the so called High castes (jatts) seated inside on tapparrs..while the poor so called low castes being served OUTSIDE in the verandahs far away from the jatts. THAT is NOT pangat even if all are on the floor.

We SIKHS need to be aware of a lot of things going terribly wrong...

 

[Navdeep88]

Gyani Ji,

Obviously your experience and exposure is a lot more varied on the issue. The following is just my approach (and has a lot to do with my parents and what they believe/practice).
I've only eaten langar on chairs once or twice (at a wedding) and I just found it to be a little snooty, like I was just dining in a cafeteria, it didn't feel like langar. I find sitting on the floor better cuz I like the position of being lower in my Guru's abode. If I wanted my Guru to be so approachable, why would we even bother to bow, why not just a nod of acknowledgment? I feel like in the darbar hall, you sit on the ground and recieve Guru's word, and in pangat, you sit on the ground and receive Guru's langar... I dont even need a mat, I just like sitting on the floor with everyone... idk, guess I just love cold tiles. walking on them barefeet, sitting on them. lol. its what I'm comfortable with, thats all ive known and find it to be quite unique and beautiful. chairs are stiff and boring, they're everywhere.

 

[spnadmin]

I do agree with Gyani ji...there is the "ethos" of sangat and pangat without caste. That has to be understood and kept as a fundamental beam in how we practice our Sikhi. I agree with everything he has said in this thread. And then there are all the sticky wickets...for example the old, infirm, handicapped who cannot sit on the floor, and are humiliated to be told to sit in the hall outside the darbar shiab. And so they stop going to gurdwara. While the Nirankari, Rahasoami, and Sant Mat congregations provide accommodations for all. And they are increasingly attractive to people seeking sangat and spirituality. Of course those seekers bring others allong.