Battling The 5 Thieves Through Simran/Meditation

chazSingh

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Last night there was a Horizon T.V documentary that showed our Conscious Mind can only concentrate on 2-3 tasks at a time. All the rest (and there are so many) are dictated by our subconscious mind...all of these subconscious actions we are unaware of.

The question the program asked was...are we in CONTROL of our subconscious mind...or does our Subconscious mind CONTROL US? are we slaves to what our subconscious contains..

Gurbani already tells us all about this...hundreds of years before science has finally clocked on:

eihu sareer maaeiaa kaa puthalaa vich houmai dhusattee paaee ||
This body is the puppet of Maya. The evil of egotism is within it.

maaeiaa jaevadd dhukh nehee sabh bhav thhakae sa(n)saar ||
There is no pain as great as the pain of Maya; it drives people to wander all around the world, until they become exhausted.

man maerae houmai mail bhar naal ||
O my mind, you are filled with the filth of egotism.

baahar mal dhhovai man kee joot(h) n jaaeae ||
Outwardly, he washes off the filth, but the impurity of his mind does not go away.

eihu man mailaa eik n dhhiaaeae ||
This mind is filthy and polluted; it does not meditate on the One.

eis dhaehee a(n)dhar pa(n)ch chor vasehi kaam krodhh lobh mohu aha(n)kaaraa ||
Within this body dwell the five thieves: sexual desire, anger, greed, emotional attachment and egotism.

pa(n)ch dhooth moodd par t(h)aadtae kaes gehae faeraavath hae ||
The five thieves stand over your head and seize you. Grabbing you by your hair, they will drive you on.

The five thieves attack us through our mind, our thoughts...these thoughts come from our subconscious mind...and we then act upon them.

It brings out anger in us, sexual desire, greed for money, food, attachment to our worldy posessions and family, fear of death, etc etc
And our conscious mind just follows like a slave to these 5 thieves.

Guru Ji gave us the tools to fight our minds, called Simran/Meditation and through Seva

I would like to start this thread for all the Forum Members who already are or are thinking about taking this practice seriously as described in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Please share with myself and others your experiences, difficulties encountered of any kind etc etc.

god Bless all.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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Re: Batlling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

I try and LIVE GURBANI...struggle to LIVE TRUTHFULLY at work and play...struggle to be SANS ENMITY..sans-ANGER.. SANS- KRODH....struggle to be FEARLESS.......struggle to LOVE those who HATE ME..try to be my enemies..make me angry...frighten me..submit me...struggle to amke a HONEST LIVING..Hard work......leaves me very little time for any mischief...as the daily GRIND attempt to EMULATE.... EK OANGKAAR takes up most of my time..awake or asleep....
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Re: Batlling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

I try and LIVE GURBANI...struggle to LIVE TRUTHFULLY at work and play...struggle to be SANS ENMITY..sans-ANGER.. SANS- KRODH....struggle to be FEARLESS.......struggle to LOVE those who HATE ME..try to be my enemies..make me angry...frighten me..submit me...struggle to amke a HONEST LIVING..Hard work......leaves me very little time for any mischief...as the daily GRIND attempt to EMULATE.... EK OANGKAAR takes up most of my time..awake or asleep....

Satnaam Ji,

We are all in this battle...a daily battle.

I do ardaas before i meditate saying "whatever happens i am happy with, for eveything that happens is all your doing. Come sit within my mind and heart and do with me as you please...i surrender to your sweet will".

But then go on to worrying about our jobs, our wealth, our kids, family, looking at women. etc etc etc.

All i know is that when I sit and do my simran in a quiet place, focussing on Satnaam Ji, that the 5 thieves come out in force playing havoc in my mind...they don't want me to remember by Guru Ji...they dont want me anywhere near Him.

In an awake state, the events in my life over the past 6-12 months have really tested my resolve, my internal 5 thieves have wanted to lash out in anger, in digust, blaming everything on God, hating everyone...
but on this occasion, i managed to fight the temptation to give into these thoughts...i went to my Guru Ji and put my heart on a plate and said i'm going to dedicate the rest of my life to doing His Simran and Seva.

Its amazng how ones views and thoghts change after doing this. become less interested in quaraling, hating, slandering...even though i am amongst it all in my social life...i seem to be getting more detached with it...mind is staying with Satnaam Ji.

This is what daily Simran (an hour at the gurdwara, an hour before i sleep) has started doing to me :) so i plan to continue until my last breathe.

God bless all.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Re: Batlling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Chazsinghji

I recall to being extremely impressed by your post on meditation, in fact it was so convincing that it made me determined to respect those that seek Guruji through this fashion.

If I may speak frankly, and without the knowledge of Bani you clearly have, from a purely personal point of view given my life experience.

The thieves are there, but why are they there? Some might say to be conquered, to be thrashed and defeated, to be smitten, destroyed, etc. I do not agree with this line of thinking, the thieves must be won over, not through fear, escapism, deals, intimidation, but one thing and thing only, understanding!

Through understanding we can turn a thief into a virtue. We have the starting seed, the vice, if we follow the pragmatic teachings of Guruji, we can nurture this vice, and turn it into a virtue. Thus Wrath becomes Compassion, Greed becomes Contentment, Ego/Pride becomes Humility, Lust becomes Love, Attatchment becomes the awareness of Truth. Being aware of one side of the scale, makes you aware of the opposite. On my journey, I have made the mistake of aversion, rather than understanding of the thieves, thus by deleting the thieves from my life, I became a peaceful, penniless, unwashed, unsexed and detached person. The sort of person that you see wandering round the markets in India looking a bit mental, not the Sikh that the Gurus envisaged.

In my view, make your peace with thieves, they need to know that you control them, that you will convert them, and one day they will be replaced by virtues, although like everything within Sikhi, every day is a fight, the minute you get complacent, they will grab back what is theirs, everything is a cycle,

just my own thoughts
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Re: Batlling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Chazsinghji

I recall to being extremely impressed by your post on meditation, in fact it was so convincing that it made me determined to respect those that seek Guruji through this fashion.

If I may speak frankly, and without the knowledge of Bani you clearly have, from a purely personal point of view given my life experience.

The thieves are there, but why are they there? Some might say to be conquered, to be thrashed and defeated, to be smitten, destroyed, etc. I do not agree with this line of thinking, the thieves must be won over, not through fear, escapism, deals, intimidation, but one thing and thing only, understanding!

Through understanding we can turn a thief into a virtue. We have the starting seed, the vice, if we follow the pragmatic teachings of Guruji, we can nurture this vice, and turn it into a virtue. Thus Wrath becomes Compassion, Greed becomes Contentment, Ego/Pride becomes Humility, Lust becomes Love, Attatchment becomes the awareness of Truth. Being aware of one side of the scale, makes you aware of the opposite. On my journey, I have made the mistake of aversion, rather than understanding of the thieves, thus by deleting the thieves from my life, I became a peaceful, penniless, unwashed, unsexed and detached person. The sort of person that you see wandering round the markets in India looking a bit mental, not the Sikh that the Gurus envisaged.

In my view, make your peace with thieves, they need to know that you control them, that you will convert them, and one day they will be replaced by virtues, although like everything within Sikhi, every day is a fight, the minute you get complacent, they will grab back what is theirs, everything is a cycle,

just my own thoughts

Your are correct. By defeating i do not mean, getting rid of as such.

At the moment, the majority of the world is at mercy to the 5 thieves...we see it around us everyday, in the news..its crippled the human species.

By doing this internal battle...because it occurs in the mind...the process i take is to try and regain control...to be the controller and not the one being controled. in mediation, you can do this battle without coming face to face with a human being...you cannot at first subdue another persons 5 thieves but we can cripple ours.

then later when anothers actions (under the 5 thieves) tries to create a re-action from us (under the 5 thieves) hopefully we can re-act with the virtues you speak of because we'd have tamed our internal thieves.

In my life i've been on a path that has taken me to the extremes of the 5 thieves...and then i sit back and cannot believe some of the things i did under the influence of them in the past.

Meditation has been powerful for me...
but if you're able to do this without the mediation/simran then all is good :)
Its all meditation in reality when you do anything with god in mind.


God bless all
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Third Eye - associated with the 6th Chakra - and in biological terms associated with the Pineal Gland (which resides in the lower half of the brain).

The Pineal Gland is photosensitive and has what is similar to a retina, even though light cannot get to it. Some say it used to help create the images that we create when we think of something with out eyes closed.

The soul emits light...and meditiation on the Third eye region is said to enhance your ability to see the Prakash (light emision) of the soul.

During my own meditations, I have started to feel my Third eye activating, initially it was a pressure between by eyebrows...and then during meditation at the local gurwara i started seeing colours of light (purple, white, gold etc). I didnt know what this was un-til i started researching the third eye.

Now i can see the colours on every meditation.

Thursday night last week, i was meditating in bed, and eventually just fell asleep. I had a slightly unconfortable dream and was awoken by it (although i can't remember the dream)...lying in bed with my eyes open, i could see a patern in my mind, so i closed my eyes and focussed on it. the pattern was amazing, streaks of flashes, swirls, like i was flying through a vortex. I lay and observed this for about 10 minutes before they went away.

Are any of the Sangat having experiences of the Third eye? Would be good to share experiences :)
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Chazsingh ji one comment.
Thursday night last week, i was meditating in bed, and eventually just fell asleep. I had a slightly unconfortable dream and was awoken by it (although i can't remember the dream)...lying in bed with my eyes open, i could see a patern in my mind, so i closed my eyes and focussed on it. the pattern was amazing, streaks of flashes, swirls, like i was flying through a vortex. I lay and observed this for about 10 minutes before they went away.

Chazsingh ji mind amongst other manifestations is a roller coaster. It is fun to ride and enjoy it. You just had one such ride from what I can tell. icecreammunda

I am sure everyone has pleasant and out of this world type experiences in their life time. Mind can think the unthinkable, visualize the un-visualizable, create the impossible, reach the impossible and unreachable.

Great fun mind is if enjoyed and used the right way.
Wonderment is the food of the mind, never let it run out.
:mundabhangra:cheerleader:singhbhangra:

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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chazSingh

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Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Chazsingh ji mind amongst other manifestations is a roller coaster. It is fun to ride and enjoy it. You just had one such ride from what I can tell. icecreammunda

I am sure everyone has pleasant and out of this world type experiences in their life time. Mind can think the unthinkable, visualize the un-visualizable, create the impossible, reach the impossible and unreachable.

Great fun mind is if enjoyed the right way.

Satnaam Ambarsaria Ji,

If Satnaam Guru Nanak Dev Ji, in all his glory walked the earth today...you know he would look completely different to the paintings we have...and if he logged onto this forum and said:

kahu naanak prabh milae manohar man seethal bigasaarae ||2||3||29||
Says Nanak, I have met my Enticing Lord God; my mind is cooled and soothed - it blossoms forth in joy. Raag Dayv Gandhaaree 534


I'm pretty sure you would reply to him in exactly the same way you did to me :)

for eveyone else... Live Gurbani, Breath Gurbani, experience Gurbani and then maybe all of our minds will Blossom forth in Joy just like Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
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Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Satnaam Ambarsaria Ji,

If Satnaam Guru Nanak Dev Ji, in all his glory walked the earth today...you know he would look completely different to the paintings we have...and if he logged onto this forum and said:

kahu naanak prabh milae manohar man seethal bigasaarae ||2||3||29||
Says Nanak, I have met my Enticing Lord God; my mind is cooled and soothed - it blossoms forth in joy. Raag Dayv Gandhaaree 534


I'm pretty sure you would reply to him in exactly the same way you did to me :)

I sure would brother talk to Guru Nanak Dev ji the same way. I am at awe with most of what I read in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the brilliance of thought. Many times when I read I visualize as though sitting in the shade in Punjab and Guru ji themselves doing a discourse. I thoroughly and incredibly enjoy this mindset as the 500+ years time difference evaporates. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji becomes alive and in your face.
Sat Sri Akal.
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

I sure would brother talk to Guru Nanak Dev ji the same way. I am at awe with most of what I read in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the brilliance of thought. Many times when I read I visualize as though sitting in the shade in Punjab and Guru ji themselves doing a discourse. I thoroughly and incredibly enjoy this mindset as the 500+ years time difference evaporates. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji becomes alive and in your face.
QUOTE]

Satnaam Ambarsaria Ji,

Thats a beautiful way to read and visualise gurbani :)

But, the 500 years is non-existant anyway...the Guru, the shabad guru resonates throughout your body and the whole universe in this present day, and will do for eternity. We all can experience it, we can be a part of it withouth the obstruction of our mind saying that we can't..

we just need to believe. We surely shouldnt tell someone that what their experiencing from Simran is just their imagination...sometimes it may be :)
but only from ones own experience will you be able to distinguish the fake from the overwhelming force, power and presence within.

I only write these experiences to maybe learn from others that might be having them as well. If i want to climb mount everist...i wouldnt ask my neighbour for guidance- we'll end up at the pub, i'd seek someone that has done it already and can guide me from their experiences.

Anyone else that reads our experiences, can either dismiss - just like i used to on these forums or can start taking Simran seriously and maybe they can have their own God given joy...for we don't ask for anything...He just creates our thirst for him..all is his play.

God bless all.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
SPNer
Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Chaz Singh ji

It's not just imagination.
What you are experiencing is awakening of many neurons that have not been used before.
If all of us that are participating in naam simran meditation are having some form of experiences we surely can't all be imagining the same rollercoaster rides can we??

I feel the pineal gland or 3rd eye awakening can be a life changing experience. I also feel that our lifestyles and diet ..etc..seem to overide and hamper the actions of this gland.
I have always tried to relate any bodily action in terms of physiology and biology. However, in terms of physiology there is still alot of work to be done with the pineal gland. So we all, still have a lot to learn.
I suppose we all can have different experiences once the 3rd eye is activated.
It is definitley in the location described as most people do experience the tingling and pain you described near your forhead.
I personally have felt and noticed that I actually seem to have more mind control which in turn gives self control.
With general day to day living I do actually feel a much better individual in terms of my thinking and actions. Its not that simple to explain, but you could say I feel more in harmony with everything and everyone. It feels that you can harmonize with all the universal vibrations around you much easier.
All these generally make me feel a much better person all round living under God's hukam.
Chaz ji, I feel that this topic you chose about battling the 5 thieves with simran/meditation is a very good choice. Like I say, I feel I have more control over my mind and more control over these vices. What I find amazing is that I never even seeked or started out with the intention of battling these vices- It just came along with the mind control!! I encourage others to try this as they can only come out better and there is definitely no time wasted.

I do have quite a lot of medical knowledge with regards to feelings of euphoria, well being. hallucinations that are chemically and drug induced. But, these feelings are not quite the same. Although certain similar bodily neurotransmitters are activated but not to any similar levels....I mention this as others will point out that you are tripping and in trance like states- far from the truth as you couldn't be in more control and there are no negative effects like the downers as such experienced with medication.
I have also noticed colours,shapes, sounds, tingling and sensations of warmth specifically in a few areas at a time. I also get the sense that the lord is like a single yet strong light that we can all blend into if we choose and try. Similar to how a light shining through a prism comes out with all the colours of the spectrum. Maybe once I experience all the colours I may feel and get more closer to the single light that is the Lord.
Keep repeating 'Waheguru' whilst meditating is what I will carry on doing. I can't think of anything else in my life that I have done with feeling even more motivated each single time.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh
 
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Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

If all of us that are participating in naam simran meditation are having some form of experiences we surely can't all be imagining the same rollercoaster rides can we??

Brother we are all different and I mentioned Roller-Coaster not in a bad way as I like roller coaster rides. May be personal sublime experiences is a better choice and I too have some of such experiences under different conditions. At least for me I was not seeking, these just happened but good for sure.
I see nothing wrong with any of this.

Regards,

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Luckysingh

Writer
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Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Sikhism is a spiritual religion in the sense it is probably more spiritual than other religions and probably the most spiritual.-taking into account examples the gurus set compared to other prophets and messiah as well as the requirements of khalsa.
I feel that the spirituality that comes from within has to be strengthened with simran and meditation for those of us that feel we lack. Amrithdhari sikhs are required to get up at amritvela even though we should be with the naam 24 hrs (aaght pehr)- this amritvela is physical time when we have an opportunity to be more spiritual, this time slot has been proven to be beneficial.
Some sikhs I know that do meditate tell me that they were taught to do this by the panj pyare when they took amrit.
ਆਪਿ ਜਪਹੁ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵਹੁ ॥
Aap Japho, Avraa Naam Japaavho
Meditate yourself and inspire others to meditate.
(p 290)

However, this is not uniformly addressed across the board, thus many feel it is not necessary. I don't want a debate if it is or not but it certainly helps one become more spiritual, no doubt.
The physical act of seva may help another, loving the creation may help another,charity another, it seems to be a personal issue for each one of us. We can't actually measure spirituality or put a scale to it although we all know of people that mislead claiming that doing 100 japji sahibs/ day makes one more spiritual than doing just one. -quantity can never overide quality-.
There is no harm in doing x number ever, but we shouldn't compare, one being may get full anand with just one recitation another may do hundreds but still not experience any anand whatsoever. (we've all experienced this unsatisfactory feeling, when our mind begins to wonder) Although doing just the one japji sahib but at amritvela does have a higher probability of giving you the anand and satisfaction-again at this physical time one's outcome would be more spiritual and joyful.

Again, getting back to this topic of battling the 5 thieves, I think becomes much easier for those of us that are more spiritual. A more spiritual being can detach attachments and vices with more ease. It would be interesting to know if others feel that they have gained spirituality by other means other than naam simran and meditation. If we can all explore all the avenues to strengthen our inner selves, we can only gain, gain, gain. There would never be any harm done.

Sat kartar
Lucky Singh
 
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chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Satnaam Sat Sangat Ji,

From my experiences, when you do Simran in your daily activities and do Seva throughout the day, then you are battling your 5 thieves at a conscious level.
When we do Simran in meditation, you start to come face to face with what is in your subconscious...where many of our thoughts originate from.

Our inner feelings, why we get agitated so quickly, why we feel depressed sometimes, why we are not confident in certain environments, our sexual desires, fears, anxiety etc etc...all lies in the subconscious mind. All these things and hundreds more hinder our existance and get us into a lot of difficulty in our lives.
For me personally i have come face to face with my negative aspects and learning to control them through meditation.

Our Soul Sits inside our body...it is the pure molicule of consciousness from the ocean of consciousness that is God. When we empty our subconscious, we start to lose all our fears and doubts, and we become fearless, our love becomes pure and becomes equal for every living thing in the universe...we no longer get angry (even if we were sat on a hot plate and have boiling hot sand poured over our heads...or if we are hung on a cross and crucified). instead when we fight for injustices, we feed and treat the injuries of our enemies after battle...we put a nugget of gold on our arrows so that if the arrow causes death, the family of the enemy are left with something to help them (just like Sri Guru Gobind Singh did).

Yogi Bhajan used to say that he never ever dreamed...his subconscious became so clear that there was nothing to dream about...he was at peace within himself.

I sometimes find after a session of Simran that i have unconfortable dreams...
I've been told that this happens because our mind is removing/playing out the negativity it contains as it releases it. Simran having its cleansing effects.

This can only be a good thing :)

I try as much as possible to do mediation in amrit vela...its a difficult practice...but it been the most rewarding when i've managed to fight off sleep. The energy around them hours just feels so different.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
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Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Simran and its benefits..are all highly personal.......no one can duplicate anothers personal experiences...and it does require a hell lot of practise and concentration...and LOVE..Jin PREM kio tin Prabh paiyoh is not an empty promise...its the Truth.Gurbani tells us to BECOME GURBANI....thats the Bottom LINE...:tablakudi:
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Simran and its benefits..are all highly personal.......no one can duplicate anothers personal experiences...and it does require a hell lot of practise and concentration...and LOVE..Jin PREM kio tin Prabh paiyoh is not an empty promise...its the Truth.Gurbani tells us to BECOME GURBANI....thats the Bottom LINE...:tablakudi:
Gurbani, the complete truth, so beautiful and endless :)

Just as Giani Ji Said,
Simran without Love and the Thirst for God becomes a mechanical process. Simran Powered by Love is Divine...this is Waheguru Ji doing Simran himself through you. a very personal experience :)
 

Luckysingh

Writer
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Re: Battling the 5 Thieves Thorugh Simran/Meditation

Jin PREM kio tin Prabh paiyoh is not an empty promise...its the Truth.Gurbani tells us to BECOME GURBANI....thats the Bottom LINE...

Gurbani tells us to become gurbani.This is very strong and nice to the heart, from Gyani ji- thanks
Bottom line. .is to achieve this regardless of how we do it.

Listening to kirtan, or doing kirtan, watching sikh movies or dharmik stories, dharmik geet, giving langar to hobos, listening to katha, even if it's from a giani with a blemish on their reputation!!!- we can still learn some good from a few minutes of their time.,regardless of what we think of them!!!.... Whatever, whatever someone can do that helps them merge even with a small part of the gurbani is a huge achievement for anyone.

We all waste too much time deciding or arguing how we should learn or from whom we should learn.. eg.. I don't listen to what that sant says cuz he did so and so or he's just here for money, cash., deras...blaah blaah.
Even something as ridiculous as a cartoon can sometimes have a line in its dialogue that can teach us something.
Keeping our eyes open to see or view and ears open to listen & learn we can learn much more. We may not always be able to control what we see or hear BUT we can certainly control what we speak.
Keeping eyes and ears open but our mouths shut unless we be asking question, we can progress easier towards merging with gurbani and the true lord.
I hope we are all blessed for even trying and helping each other achieve this. Bottom line is ..ALL the sangat is on here for one thing and one thing only... that's what we need to remember and keep reminding ourselves.

Gyani ji, I like this 'bottom line' statement as we can apply it to all our actions.

Waheguru
Lucky Singh
P.S I write waheguru instead of bye,cheers,later etc..etc.. as one reading will say it within their mind as well as myself. You can only gain from this, no harm and nothing lost. Something you could say ridiculously simple yet again.
Satnaam Waheguru
 
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