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Gurbani (1125-1152)
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Sehskritee Mahala 5
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Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
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Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Sikh History & Heritage
Baba Farid In Guru Granth Sahib
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<blockquote data-quote="OSingh" data-source="post: 150807" data-attributes="member: 15900"><p>SPN admin bought AKJ into this topic and stated:</p><p></p><p>'<em>Unless of course these comments should be considered a borderline effort to <strong>undermine Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji</strong></em>.'</p><p></p><p>This statemnt is false and you have no evidence to back up your claim that Taopban tried to undermine Guru Granth Sahib. This couldn't be further from the truth, gurdwara Tapoban Sahib teach santhiya, punjabi, gurmat classes, kirtan classes, larvar classes, gatka etc. Gurdwara Topoban Sahib are doing great seva and are attaching the sangat to Guru Granth Sahib. </p><p></p><p>Next quote</p><p></p><p>'<em>Here is why I say this. Tapoban is an AKJ organization. AKJ historically took on the cause of Panj Khalsa Divan from the early 20th Century. Questioning the bani of the bhagats was a serious bone of contention between Panj Khalsa Divan and Chief Khalsa Divan, and led to a permanent fracture</em>.'</p><p></p><p>In early stages PKJ did good seva and preached Gurmat principles but later in 1920's they drifted away from Gurmat. You have tried to link PKJ to AKJ by suggesting since PJK opposed bhagat bani therefore AKJ opposed bhagat bani, yet you dont have a shred of evidence for this. AKJ do not reject bhagat bani at all. This was Teja Singh Bhasaur who Bhai Sahib refused to meet because of his anti-panthic ideology. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>'<em>Is it not somewhat irrelevant to the message of Sheik Farid? Is the historical identity of Sheik Farid more important than the message of his bani</em>'</p><p></p><p>and</p><p></p><p>'<em>There is no "history"of any Guru in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We should follow the same line of thought and not dwell too much on whos</em>' - Jarnail Singh ji</p><p></p><p>This thread was a discussion on whether bhagats were born before or were alive during Guru Nanak Dev ji's lifetime. In this case the historical identity is relevant due to the fact Sheikh Farid Shakarganj was staunch a muslim who followed sharia and converted many hindus to islam, he was born around 300 years before Guru Nanak Dev ji and he was no a native of Punjab. </p><p></p><p>These points make it clear that it can't be Farid Shakarganj ji bani in Guru Granth Sahib - the linguistics of Baba Farid ji's bani and Guru Nanak ji's match very closely just read the bani of these Mahapurakhs. It had to be a contemporary of Guru Nanak Dev ji due to the similar language used, if it were written 300 years prior the Punjabi used would have been very different. Also Baba Farid ji's bani is pure Gurmat and does not match with Islam ie sharia, Prophet Mohammed being the last messanger, day of judgement etc. Instead Baba ji's bani matches perfectly with the ideals set out by Guru Nanak dev ji. Baba Farid ji stresses the importance meeting Akal Purakh through Satguru and naam simran. These concepts are different to Islamic way to meet God. Therefore it makes more sense that Sheikh Ibrahim who was sitting on the gaddi of Sheikh Farid Shakarganj ji and was 10th in line from this gaddi, drifted away from certain Islamic beliefs and was drawn more towards the bhakti concept. His ideals were now more in line with Gurmat principles. It makes much more sense that it was actually sheikh Ibrahim ji's bani, who was a contemporary of Guru Nanak devji, which was incorporated into Guru Granth Sahib.</p><p></p><p>Those who believe that Guru Granth Sahib validates all religions and that Guru Granth Sahib says that all relgions lead to God, often use the argument that since Baba Farid was a muslim and his bani is in Guru Granth Sahib, therefore Guru ji accepts Islam can also lead one to God. But using new research one can prove that bhagats whose bani was incorporated into Guru Granth Sahib were not Muslims hindus in the traditional sense but that their ideoligies had move away from Hinduism and Islam and move to a new way to meet God through Satguru and Naam Simran. I urge sangat to read Giani Gurdit Singh's book - 'Itihaas Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Bhagat Bani (History of Guru Granth Sahib: Bhagat Bani, second edition' Giani ji visited birthplaces of the bhagats and found old manuscripts which suggest that bhagats were contempories of Guru Sahib and actually met Maharaj in person.</p><p></p><p>Their is no problem in someone doing research into this area as long as it is not biased. I agree with Jarnail Singh most important thing is to do paath of bhagat bani. Nowhere have I suggested that history is the most important thing or that history is more important than following bachans of Gurbani. Of course the highest karams are naam simran, abhiyaas of bani, seva etc. </p><p></p><p>However I still believe that history has an important role, shaheedi of Guru Arjan Dev ji and Guru TeghBahadur ji, Chaar sahibzade, Banda Singh Bahadur etc Our history is great and many of these important events have been preserved by various writers. </p><p></p><p>There is a saying in Panjab that if a jug milk has a few insects in it you don't throw away the whole jug of milk. You remove the insect and use the rest of the milk. <em>Dont throw away the baby with the bathwater</em>. By using the kaswati (touchstone) of Gurbani, we can accept those sakhi's that match with Gurmat and those that reject Gurmat we can discard. By rejecting every single document we could be ignoring diamonds, genuine sakhis that could increase our understanding of the philosophy of Guru Maharaj such as kirat karna - Guru Nanak Dev ji used to do farming and worked in shop at Sulatanpur to earn a living. The ten Guru Sahiban practised what they preached and this can be seen in various episodes during their lives. Sure there are many sakhis that go against Gurmat but we can use Gurbani to help us decipher which sakhis are authentic those which are false.</p><p></p><p>Damdami Taksal has produced in my opinion produced two of the great leaders of modern times, bhai Kartar Singh ji and bhai Jarnail Singh ji. When bhai Kartar Singh was injured in an accident and required an operation on his heart he refused as this would of meant cutting his hair in order to operate. As a result bhai Kartar Singh ji died. This is the love bhai Kartar Singh ji had for Guru Gobind Singh ji. The whole panth knows of the great seva bhai Jarnail Singh and bhai Amrik Singh did for the panth. Even in their last moments bhai Amrik Singh ji fought like lion against the indian army at Akal Takht. Bhai Jarnail Singh always remained loyal to the panth and Akal Takht and refused to allow ragmala to be read at Akal Takht even though he was a firm believer in Ragamala. Bhai Thakur Singh ji even in his old age went abroad to various countries trying to raise money for shaheed families. Its easy to criticize and look at faults of Taksal but nobody can take away their contribution for the panth. Their legacy will not diminish and rightly so. </p><p></p><p>Rabb rakhe </p><p></p><p>Waheguru Ji Ka khalsa Waheguru Ki Fateh</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="OSingh, post: 150807, member: 15900"] SPN admin bought AKJ into this topic and stated: '[I]Unless of course these comments should be considered a borderline effort to [B]undermine Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji[/B][/I][B][/B].' This statemnt is false and you have no evidence to back up your claim that Taopban tried to undermine Guru Granth Sahib. This couldn't be further from the truth, gurdwara Tapoban Sahib teach santhiya, punjabi, gurmat classes, kirtan classes, larvar classes, gatka etc. Gurdwara Topoban Sahib are doing great seva and are attaching the sangat to Guru Granth Sahib. Next quote '[I]Here is why I say this. Tapoban is an AKJ organization. AKJ historically took on the cause of Panj Khalsa Divan from the early 20th Century. Questioning the bani of the bhagats was a serious bone of contention between Panj Khalsa Divan and Chief Khalsa Divan, and led to a permanent fracture[/I].' In early stages PKJ did good seva and preached Gurmat principles but later in 1920's they drifted away from Gurmat. You have tried to link PKJ to AKJ by suggesting since PJK opposed bhagat bani therefore AKJ opposed bhagat bani, yet you dont have a shred of evidence for this. AKJ do not reject bhagat bani at all. This was Teja Singh Bhasaur who Bhai Sahib refused to meet because of his anti-panthic ideology. '[I]Is it not somewhat irrelevant to the message of Sheik Farid? Is the historical identity of Sheik Farid more important than the message of his bani[/I]' and '[I]There is no "history"of any Guru in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We should follow the same line of thought and not dwell too much on whos[/I]' - Jarnail Singh ji This thread was a discussion on whether bhagats were born before or were alive during Guru Nanak Dev ji's lifetime. In this case the historical identity is relevant due to the fact Sheikh Farid Shakarganj was staunch a muslim who followed sharia and converted many hindus to islam, he was born around 300 years before Guru Nanak Dev ji and he was no a native of Punjab. These points make it clear that it can't be Farid Shakarganj ji bani in Guru Granth Sahib - the linguistics of Baba Farid ji's bani and Guru Nanak ji's match very closely just read the bani of these Mahapurakhs. It had to be a contemporary of Guru Nanak Dev ji due to the similar language used, if it were written 300 years prior the Punjabi used would have been very different. Also Baba Farid ji's bani is pure Gurmat and does not match with Islam ie sharia, Prophet Mohammed being the last messanger, day of judgement etc. Instead Baba ji's bani matches perfectly with the ideals set out by Guru Nanak dev ji. Baba Farid ji stresses the importance meeting Akal Purakh through Satguru and naam simran. These concepts are different to Islamic way to meet God. Therefore it makes more sense that Sheikh Ibrahim who was sitting on the gaddi of Sheikh Farid Shakarganj ji and was 10th in line from this gaddi, drifted away from certain Islamic beliefs and was drawn more towards the bhakti concept. His ideals were now more in line with Gurmat principles. It makes much more sense that it was actually sheikh Ibrahim ji's bani, who was a contemporary of Guru Nanak devji, which was incorporated into Guru Granth Sahib. Those who believe that Guru Granth Sahib validates all religions and that Guru Granth Sahib says that all relgions lead to God, often use the argument that since Baba Farid was a muslim and his bani is in Guru Granth Sahib, therefore Guru ji accepts Islam can also lead one to God. But using new research one can prove that bhagats whose bani was incorporated into Guru Granth Sahib were not Muslims hindus in the traditional sense but that their ideoligies had move away from Hinduism and Islam and move to a new way to meet God through Satguru and Naam Simran. I urge sangat to read Giani Gurdit Singh's book - 'Itihaas Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Bhagat Bani (History of Guru Granth Sahib: Bhagat Bani, second edition' Giani ji visited birthplaces of the bhagats and found old manuscripts which suggest that bhagats were contempories of Guru Sahib and actually met Maharaj in person. Their is no problem in someone doing research into this area as long as it is not biased. I agree with Jarnail Singh most important thing is to do paath of bhagat bani. Nowhere have I suggested that history is the most important thing or that history is more important than following bachans of Gurbani. Of course the highest karams are naam simran, abhiyaas of bani, seva etc. However I still believe that history has an important role, shaheedi of Guru Arjan Dev ji and Guru TeghBahadur ji, Chaar sahibzade, Banda Singh Bahadur etc Our history is great and many of these important events have been preserved by various writers. There is a saying in Panjab that if a jug milk has a few insects in it you don't throw away the whole jug of milk. You remove the insect and use the rest of the milk. [I]Dont throw away the baby with the bathwater[/I]. By using the kaswati (touchstone) of Gurbani, we can accept those sakhi's that match with Gurmat and those that reject Gurmat we can discard. By rejecting every single document we could be ignoring diamonds, genuine sakhis that could increase our understanding of the philosophy of Guru Maharaj such as kirat karna - Guru Nanak Dev ji used to do farming and worked in shop at Sulatanpur to earn a living. The ten Guru Sahiban practised what they preached and this can be seen in various episodes during their lives. Sure there are many sakhis that go against Gurmat but we can use Gurbani to help us decipher which sakhis are authentic those which are false. Damdami Taksal has produced in my opinion produced two of the great leaders of modern times, bhai Kartar Singh ji and bhai Jarnail Singh ji. When bhai Kartar Singh was injured in an accident and required an operation on his heart he refused as this would of meant cutting his hair in order to operate. As a result bhai Kartar Singh ji died. This is the love bhai Kartar Singh ji had for Guru Gobind Singh ji. The whole panth knows of the great seva bhai Jarnail Singh and bhai Amrik Singh did for the panth. Even in their last moments bhai Amrik Singh ji fought like lion against the indian army at Akal Takht. Bhai Jarnail Singh always remained loyal to the panth and Akal Takht and refused to allow ragmala to be read at Akal Takht even though he was a firm believer in Ragamala. Bhai Thakur Singh ji even in his old age went abroad to various countries trying to raise money for shaheed families. Its easy to criticize and look at faults of Taksal but nobody can take away their contribution for the panth. Their legacy will not diminish and rightly so. Rabb rakhe Waheguru Ji Ka khalsa Waheguru Ki Fateh [/QUOTE]
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