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Authentic Sikhism Defined?

Archived_Member_19

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those show how historical narratives and interpretations can be so tangentially different from the true teachings embodied in SGGS

there is a reason why SGGS was written in local language of people and not Sanskrit.
 

spnadmin

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those show how historical narratives and interpretations can be so tangentially different from the true teachings embodied in SGGS

there is a reason why SGGS was written in local language of people and not Sanskrit.

Please explain how these observations are connected to the topic of the thread. It could be fascinating, good vichaar on your part.
 

Archived_Member_19

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the connection is:

Ram Rai misinterpreted the tuk in SGGS and also had his own explanations of SGGS

Dhir Mall posed as a Guru and has his own maryada.

What makes us so sure that these rehat maryadas are not figments of someone's imagination?

Why can't we have just SGGS as our one and only true guiding light?

It is not so tough to understand

i agree it should be translated to as many languages as possible. But no kathas or vichaars can imbue the meaning unless one contemplates on the shabd and bears it within the heart.
 

spnadmin

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the connection is:

Ram Rai misinterpreted the tuk in SGGS and also had his own explanations of SGGS

Dhir Mall posed as a Guru and has his own maryada.

What makes us so sure that these rehat maryadas are not figments of someone's imagination?

Why can't we have just SGGS as our one and only true guiding light?

It is not so tough to understand

i agree it should be translated to as many languages as possible. But no kathas or vichaars can imbue the meaning unless one contemplates on the shabd and bears it within the heart.

Well some say that Ram Rai misinterpreted the tuk knowingly and for his own advantage and from personal animosity and envy. Anyway one reads the story, Ram Rai was spurned by his brethren. It shows that one can have knowledge of all kinds, but lack heart. We can have SGGS as our one and only true guiding light, but without a heart there is nowhere for the jyote to burn and kindle love of the Guru. Without heart there is nowhere for the Guru to abide, and nowhere for Him to attach his lotus feet. So even the son of a Guru, a master of meditation, and a student of Shabad Guru, can get lost along the way.

Is something missing in the article?
 

Archived_Member_19

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<<hoie isK isr topI DrY ] swq jnm kuStI huie mrY ]
hoe sikh sir ttopee dhharai || saath janam kushattee hue marai ||
He who as a Sikh places a hat on their head; will be reborn seven times as a leper. >>

how does it link up to anything in SGGS?

sa(n)niaasee bairaagee jaevai aar oudhaasee yogee thaevai ja(n)gam vaamee avar j koee thaa(n) kaa joot(h)aa kabee n laeee ||

<<<Hermits, renouncers, Udhasis and Yogis; Celibates and other sects and faiths; never eat from the same plate.

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee>>>

why???? what about universal brotherhood?
 

spnadmin

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<<hoie isK isr topI DrY ] swq jnm kuStI huie mrY ]
hoe sikh sir ttopee dhharai || saath janam kushattee hue marai ||
He who as a Sikh places a hat on their head; will be reborn seven times as a leper. >>

how does it link up to anything in SGGS?

sa(n)niaasee bairaagee jaevai aar oudhaasee yogee thaevai ja(n)gam vaamee avar j koee thaa(n) kaa joot(h)aa kabee n laeee ||

<<<Hermits, renouncers, Udhasis and Yogis; Celibates and other sects and faiths; never eat from the same plate.

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee>>>

why???? what about universal brotherhood?

Universal brotherhood is a noble goal for mankind? How can we relate it to the topic of the thread?
 

Archived_Member_19

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where does SGGS say about not sharing food with anyone??

universal brotherhood was maybe bit offbeat but it is one of recurring themes in SGGS. It is valid as SGGS does not make brackets of RELIGION anywhere. It talks of Gurmukhs and person's soul.

but here's what it is in straight words -

I can't see any linkage between Rehatnamas and SGGS.

any member can help?
 

japjisahib04

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We have yet to outline what is often mistaken for authenticity, and what is factually and actually incorrect, when setting out to define the authentic Sikh identity.

Dear all

In our daily Ardas (supplication) either collectively or individually, we initially recount our heritage who have made great sacrifices and thank God for making us part of it and finally request to bless us with sikhi daan, kesh daan. It is precisely for this reason that traditionally Sikhs have been getting inspiration from those who lived the faith as opposed to merely discussing it as a set of abstract principles namely: 4 Sahizade, 5 Piaray and 40 Muktai. It is surprised despite our daily ardas we still question authentic Sikh identity.

The growth of beard on gents face and hair is a hukam and Guru Nanak in the first stanza particularly emphasised to surrender to His Hukam. It is not man made. Shaving and removing hair is our chaturai and correction in His perfection. Let us not temper or do anything which does not make him happy. After all when gurbani directs us, Jai tis bhavai ta nahi karee'.

SGGS is far from being a catalog of sectarian dos and don'ts, is a bouquet of praiseful sabd in honor of our creator, rather it describes how our thoughts and actions are to be brought into resonance with Truth to reach bliss and worship our beloved. Where does it tells us to shave off beard that we question where is written in SGGS to keep hair. After all what is our priorities. Since
Grace is cardinal doctrine of Sabd Guru -Datai daat rakhi hath aapnai jis bhavai tis daihi, my question is when we interefre with His Hukam and make correction in His perfection, do we still qualify for His grace to accomplish the most signifance mission of our life i.e.union with our Beloved. After all Harmandar eho sareer hai' which we trying to disfigure with our chaturai.

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni
Kuwait
 
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spnadmin

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Japjisahib ji

It is surprised despite our daily ardas we still question authentic Sikh identity. Your words bring some serious focus to the questions raised here. Thanks
 

Archived_Member_19

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now that we are discussing the Ardas-

i always wonder why the access to Nankana Sahib piece is added?

why place importance on places of pilgrimage when Guruji denounced pilgrimage.
 

spnadmin

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Sorry - I have just found what you are talking about. Ardaas in English is below so we can take it back to the topic.

Here is the supplication : bless Your Sikhs with the gift of freely visiting and serving at Sri Nankana Sahib and other gurdwaras and Gurus' homes from which the Panth has been separated.


I am actually glad I missed/forgot about that as it forced me to give the mention of Nankana Sahib some serious thought. What it says: freely visiting and serving at Sri Nankana Sahib and other gurdwaras and Gurus' homes from which the Panth has been separated.

Which is true - the Panth more than ever is separated from its history. Should we make the case that everything is Maya so who gives a fig about our history. :roll::roll: You know there are people who say "Yes we should forget our history." We should leave 1984 behind us too according to these people :roll::roll:


:confused:

The Sikh Prayer*
There is but One Eternal (God). Victory to Vaheguru. May God protect us.

Ballad of God (by) the Tenth King. Having first remembered God, think of Guru
Nanak; then think of Angad Guru, and Amar Dass and Ram Dass; may they help us.

Remember Arjan, Hargobind and the great Har Rai. Let us think of the great Harkrishan
whose sight dispels all sorrow. Let us think of Tegh Bahadar; the nine treasures shall
hasten to our homes. May they help us every where.

The Tenth King, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji: protect us every where. Thinking of the
reading, of the sight, of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Light of the Ten Kings, please say:
Vaheguru.

The five Beloved Ones; the four sons of the Master, the forty Saved Ones; the
steadfast, meditating and devout souls who recited the Name, shared their food with
others, ran free kitchens, plied the sword, and overlooked the faults of others;
thinking of the deeds of those dear and true ones, Khalsa Ji, please say: Vaheguru.

Those Singhs and Singhanis who sacrificed their lives for the Faith, were cut up joint
by joint, had their scalps scraped off, were broken on the wheel, were sawn alive,
sacrificed their lives for the gurdwaras, but did not give up their faith and lived their
devotion to the Sikh Way with their hair intact to the last breath; thinking of their
sacrifices, Khalsa Ji, please say: Vaheguru.

Thinking of the five thrones and all the gurdwaras, please say: Vaheguru.
First, the entire Khalsa prays to You. May the entire Khalsa remember Vaheguru,
Vaheguru, Vaheguru; and, through this remembrance, may there be complete joy. May
Your protection extend to the Khalsa wherever they might be. May their kitchens and
their swords be blessed with victory; may Your Will prevail; may the Panth be victorious;

May the Sword assist them; may the Khalsa be triumphant; please say: Vaheguru.

Grant to the Sikhs the gift of being Sikhs, of uncut hair, of Rehit, of understanding, of
faith and confidence; and the greatest gift of all, that of Your Name and a bath in Sri
Amritsar Ji. May the choirs, banners and mansions of the Sikhs abide forever and ever.
May righteousness triumph; please say: Vaheguru.

May the Khalsa be humble in mind and exalted in wisdom; may Vaheguru Himself
guide their thoughts.

O Eternal All-Pervading Merciful Giver, ever the Support of Your Panth, bless Your
Sikhs with the gift of freely visiting and serving at Sri Nankana Sahib and other
gurdwaras and Gurus' homes from which the Panth has been separated.

Our True Father, Honor of the meek, Strength of the oppressed, Savior of the lost;
Vaheguru, in Your Presence this is our Ardaas of _____** . Forgive us our errors and omissions,
any words added or missed; fulfill the purposes of all.

Give us the company of only those beloved people, meeting whom we may remember
Your Name. O Nanak, The Name is glorious. There is good for all in accepting Your Will.

Punjabi and English offered in the attachment along with translation notes.


Another moderation question. How does history contribute to who we are? If we give up our awareness of our history, where does that leave us as Sikhs?Should we vote to forget our history?
 

Attachments

  • Ardaas.pdf
    25.8 KB · Reads: 397

spnadmin

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Japjisahib ji spoke of Ardaas as a source of understanding our core identity in Sikhism. There are some core values to consider when asking what describes authentic Sikhism. My wording may be off and clumsy but Ardaas does point the way. And take note that the Tankaiya are not mentioned or singled out or called to punishment in any way in this prayer. It is a prayer in which we are grateful for our history because of those who went before to teach us, and grateful for our present, and hopeful for the future because of the teachings of the Gurus.

Possibly defining authentic Sikhism:


  • Remembering One God and seeking his forgiveness
  • Remembering the Gurus and asking for their help in times of trouble.
  • Remembering that the Dasam Pita protects us everywhere.
  • Remembering that the first 5 Beloved, the sons of Guru Gobind Singh, and the 40 martyrs are models to us in being steadfast in meditation and in reciting His Name.
  • Remembering that they practiced - as we should - generosity, bravery and overlooking the faults of others.
  • Remembering that they were capable of the extreme sacrifice
  • Remembering that they were faithful to the Sikh way of life (this assumes that there is a Sikh way of life, my words, forgive me)
  • Seeking the assistance of the Sword (Akaal)
  • Remembering the gift of being Sikh and the gifts that come with that, including understanding, faith and confidence
  • Remembering the gift of Naam.
  • Praying for the triumph of righteousness
  • Praying for triumph of the Khalsa and to be humble in mind and exalted in wisdom
  • Asking for forgiveness of our errors
  • Seeking the company of the holy and with their assistance remember His Name
  • Accepting His Will
I am glad that Japjisahib ji mentioned Ardas - never realized that it is a way of internalizing a Sikh identity.

Moderation question: Does Ardaas act like a tuner -- tuning us into a closer awareness of authenticity?


 

Tejwant Singh

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Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please allow me to add my 2 cents.

Ardaas for me is like a road map that we chalk out or a navigation system that we program before our inner endeavours and seek help so we can be aware of and are able to tackle the pot holes,speed bumps, tough dirt roads, muddy trails ( because the road of life is not built on asphalt or concrete) within. Ardaas is also thanking the ONE for the inner strength when we have passed through those trails and trying times.

Perhaps that is the reason our visionary Gurus did not give us any exact Ardaas, one more sign of guiding us towards freedom and openmindedness. So, it can have any words, can be said anytime, anyplace.

Tejwant Singh
 

spnadmin

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Tejwant ji

:happy::happy::happy::happy::happy: Thanks for saying that. For describing Ardaas the way you did. I could not find exactly the right words. Your words are perfect. :happy::happy::happy::happy: my first personal encounters with Sikhs transmitted a vibrations of quiet confidence on tough terrain, accompanied by an inner guidance system that valued and respected freedom and open-mindedness.

That is why I keep hoping that the conversation will realize in analyzing the first post that there is more than rehat in being a Sikh. And it seems a shame not to take the time to examine that perplexing question. With a look at Ardaas it does not seem so perplexing, but still a challenge.

I so thank you for your words.
 

japjisahib04

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Moderation question: Does Ardaas act like a tuner -- tuning us into a closer awareness of authenticity?

Nishan Sahib’, which is annexed to each Gurudwara, portray the honor of a living Qaum. Flying of Nishan Sahib at a place signifies presence of Guru Granth Sahib. It is banner and not a flag. It stays up all the time as opposed to flag of a nation or state which comes down at sunset.The Nishan sahib is never flown at half mast either. These are built higher than the ‘Gumbad’ of Gurudwaras with ‘Khanda’ on top, which represents faith in One Almighty God with a ‘saffron color’ triangle banner, a challenge to all barbarous forces that those who practice or experience truth will not be let down. Hence devotees make a parikarma of the ‘Nishan Sahib’ along with the Guru Granth Sahib as a mark of reverence – and a witnessing a commitment towards acceptance of TRUTH and maintenance of its honor. This establishes that where there is ‘Bhakti’ must be ‘Shakti’ too, thus where there is baani there is baana too.

Gurbani tells us, ‘jin jivandhia pat nahi muaia mandhi soey’ – those who are not capable of maintaining their honor will have bad reputation when lynched or burnt alive in a situation like 1984 genocide - SGGS 1242.19. So either we keep ourselves ready mentally and physically by accepting khandeh ki pahul and adopt 'kirpan' which provides us the spiritual and physical focus for a fearless disposition to be able to tread the path of righteous conduct and learn gatka and other martialarts or die like sheeps. True without God’s will and presence nothing can function but which direction one goes that choice He has given to us, hence there are evil as well as noble people. In similar way either we surrender to His design to please Him by maintaining beard and hair or remain clean shaven.

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni
Kuwait
 
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Feb 19, 2007
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Narayanjot ji,

The question you have asked about ardas acting as tuner to closer awareness of authenticity, can be answered only through personal experience.

I can only relate my humble experiences as a ordinary Sikh who does not have a high level of first hand spiritual experience:

  • Whenever I have prayed for greater material benefit or a happier family life, I have seen that my wish may or may not have materialized. So the result might have no relation to my prayer.
  • But whenever I have done ardas just thanking him for just being me and pleading for keeping me close to HIM, I have felt at least for those fleeting moments that absolute peace when nothing disturbs me or unduly excites me. I suppose, that is the feeling of absolute Chardian Kalan that spiritually accomplished souls experience on a continuous basis or what in Guru's Bani are persons who have become Jeevan Mukats.
  • As per Bhai Vir Singh ji annotation of Gurbani, in a Jeevan Mukat, Simran happens by itself all the time 24 hrs a day. Even self proclaimed atheist like Khushwant Singh had admitted when Bhai Vir Singh ji once clasped his hand he got a strange indescribable feeling of bliss. I have heard similar accounts of people who have had first hand experience with him and similar persons. People who read his original works also get a fraction of that experience.
 

Tejwant Singh

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HUck_Finn ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write in response to Narayanjot ji's question:



the connection is:

Ram Rai misinterpreted the tuk in SGGS and also had his own explanations of SGGS

Can you please share this Sakhi with us and give us your opinion how it relates to Gurmat values prescribed in the SGGS, our ONLY GURU?

Thanks



Tejwant Singh
 

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