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Answering The Wrong Doubts About Bani Onto Tenth Master

Dec 1, 2006
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““Why is the chariter count wrong and why is the shund count messed up?””
“It is done intentional and works on descreate structure with clar ways been told and not in continuiess fashion.We can say that Digital era strated much before Charels Babbage.”
Where did Charles Babbage come from? What does descreate mean? Is it discrete or desecrate? If it is desecrate then it means damage. Why would the structure be damaged? What was the need or use? If it means discrete, then this doesn’t make sense either. Discrete means distinct. Distinction is made where distinction is needed and when there is a distinction. There should be no distinction in tria chariters. It is very clear that the compilers messed up. All the person can see is are careless error because the people who put it together weren’t too good at math or didn’t care much as their motive was just to implement person agenda of fooling Sikhs. They thoughts Sikhs would always be uneducated and they would take advantage but they didn’t know their plans were going to fail right away. It wasn’t long after when Singh Sabha lehar started and they exposed the mahants and pujaris and the Sikhs started waking up. Now they are waking up again with Akaal kripa.

“”Why wasn't time used to write wiser things?””
“sometime we are unwise to recoganse something much wise then time and call it unwise.”
Whatever is not wise is not wise. Anything anti-Gurmat or anti-society can not be wise. Tria chariters must be taken care of to have a good and functional society. Tria chariters lead to massive moral corruption in people who follow them.

“”What was the need to describe sexual positions and use abusive/adult words?””
“Is Posture only means sexual postion or Asan word makes us arose then it is our own inner ******* mindset. Abuse and Adult sort of the things are made up by upper caste people,who look lower caste people using such language as bad.So such mindset is that of a Brahmin.”
What does the starred word mean? It has nothing to do with increasing lust as any normal person would see lust increase by reading chariters unless the person is impotent. Why do the saad babas have so much lust then if tria chariters have nothing to do with lust? There have been cases where the Dasam Granth pathis had wet kascheras after doing paths of tria chariters (the source is Dasam Granth Daa Likharee Kaun?). There is no caste system in European nations and North America. We have a rating system here. Whenever something has adult content, it is rated 18+. Tria chariters have no rating system.

““Why is there no rating on it? What if some 10 year old kid reads that ****?””
“Well if you come to India and stay in village or poor people.Mothers tells 6 year old child to take his cow near bull for let Sex happen.It is Urban and rich class or caste baseed inner ego which makes us think such things.Better is to ask some old person who has lived a life of poor and /or rural.Truth is naked and often bitter.”
I lived in a village so you don’t need to tell me about village and animals mating. No child is told to take cow or bull near anything. Older people take care of it. Maybe it happens in other states of India which are without morals anyways. Biharis are known to sell their daughters for 2000 rupees. Source? Noormehlee-aye Deeya Kartoota by Saroop Singh. This has nothing to do with caste system once again. When Bhagat Kabir Ji talked about circumcision, he said it would be cut by itself. He didn’t say what would be cut by itself. If it is alright to use these words then why didn’t Bhagat Kabeer Jee use it? Dasam Granth uses way more offensive words than that though. It also uses slang terms like “girl was banged hard” and “put the **** into my vagina”, etc. etc. I didn’t want to use these terms but I am only using them to write what tria chariters say. I would not be able to say these words in public if I am asked as these are so immoral. Khalsa has high morals so garbage like tria chariters has nothing to do with Khalsa. Rip it out of dasam granth and throw it in the garbage.

“”Are Dasam Granth promoters willing to read it with their family and relatives and others listening?””
“Das has talked about one episode with his mother where a lady breakes an egg on bed and misguides as men that this is seman.
further things also das talked.In Educated families,where no gender bia of mother and father is there,We can talk.”
Proof? Audio? How do we know it was mother and not someone else? Like I said, Biharis have been known to sell daughters so this isn’t hard to understand. I am talking about a normal person with morals. Was anyone else present? West is known to be corrupt. Even the people here refuse to talk these things with parents. India is going downhill when it comes to morals anyways.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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“”Where has the sharam and dharam gone?””
“Sharam or shame is in hand of Akal.Dharam is to have rithiousness.So what is fuss about it.Brahmins have made them secreative.”
Where did Brahmans come from again? Shame is in the person’s hands. Actions show how much shame the person has.

“”"Munda Santokh Sharam Putt Jholee Dhiaan Kee Krai Bebhoot"””
“Here Saram can also means labour or kirat and other word is Uddam.”
Uddam has nothing to do with Sharam. Neither has kirat or hard work. Please learn proper aarth of Japuji Sahib. Missionary College is the best.

“”"Sharam Dharam Doaye Shup Khloaye Korr Firray Pardhaan Vay Laalo"””
“That is there to counter cruototion and injustice.”
Sharam is sharam. It doesn’t matter if it has to do with pornographic content or corruption anywhere else. All corruption is wrong. Tria chariters are moral corruption. TMC is what I like to call it. TMC = Total Moral Corruption. Guru Sahib Ji wasn’t morally corrupt. Guru Sahib never went to prostitutes to fix them up in history if you ever know. Guru Ji went to magicians, sadhus, yogis, etc. but never went to prostitutes to fix them up. Why? Not the right place and fixing them up isn’t important either as they are unlikely to fix up 100%. Why does Guru Ji talk about prostitutes in Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Guru Ji shows that if people as low as prostitutes can fix up and lead to better life then so can normal people in society. People had an insecure feeling that they are bad and can’t live a better life. This is also true with many people these days. From talking to people, a lot of them just don’t have the inner strength but do want to be GurSikhs. Tria chariters preach the opposite.

“”Has the word lund or land been used in Guru Granth Sahib Ji?””
“did not word Bhug(vagina) and Jon(Yoni again Vagina) used in Guru Granth Sahib?If female Organs can be talked about then why not male one?Did world Khalsa Panth used?Did Pahil used?Did Singh as surname or Kaur used as Surname?What about 5ks?”
I already mentioned Bhagat Kabir Ji’s Shabad. If someone think he/she is smarter than Bhagat Kabir Ji, then that is their issue to take care of. It has nothing to do with me. Not only that, I already mentioned how far the tria chariters go. Lund or laand is slang term and is not appropriate. There are other better ways to say it. Bhug isn’t a slang term. If slang term was used then it could be understood. Live in Punjab and promote tria chariters in a village and see what the person gets. If the villagers don’t make to taste chata, then the tria chariter promoters can come and talk to me.

Khalsa is used in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Some kakkars are mentioned directly and some are mentioned indirectly though depending on how a person looks at it. Amrit is also mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Singh and Kaur were implemented in 1699 and so was Khanday Kee Pahul. Don’t tell me that people didn’t have lunds or lands before. It has to do with time period and other reasons than morality. If someone wants to attack fundamental practices of Sikhs because they aren’t mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, then that is the person’s issue. Khanday Ke Pahul and 5 kakkars aren’t mentioned in Dasam Granth either. Neither does it tell Sikhs men to have Singh as last name or Sikhs women to have Kaur as last name.

“”If no, then why not?””
“If not then why not?”
This is what I want to know. From what I have learned from Gurmat, it isn’t appropriate.

“”Why is it used in Dasam Granth then?””
“why can not this be used?
Sikhi Rahit Maryada can come over here.Sarbloh is used in there which may not be before.”
I don’t want to get into Sarabloh debate as it isn’t related here. Dasam Granth doesn’t say to prepare Amrit in Sarabloh baata so I don’t know what the issue is. There is no reason to bring in off topic topics into this thread. Sarabloh also has nothing to do with morals.

To people claiming to be Sikhs who have even some love for Guru:
Don't let your soul (aatma) sleep, a sleeping soul dies. Don't let your self-esteem die, a person without Aankh is as good dead physically as spiritually.
 

amar_jkp

SPNer
Nov 13, 2006
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Stop using word bihari, You can put your point without insulting others.
your type are responsible for bad immage of sikhs in purvanchal areas of bihar and U.P.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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If someone promotes caste system and I promote nationality, then what is the big issue? It is still better than saying Guru Ji got fooled by prostitute or that Guru Ji told Sikhs to knock off turbans from heads of people and use as siropas and then sell the leftovers to make cash. If someone attacks Guru and then I try to convince and person but the person starts launching attacks on me. Ulta Chor Koatwal Ko Daantay! I didn't do personal insult like it was done to me.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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If someone places hand on your dad's turban, are you going to stay quiet?
The person does direct attacks on me and says I go after prostitues and issues threats.
I said biharis like ashutosh. Is it wrong to confront Ashutosh and company?
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and the experts on Dasam Granth Sahib Jee!

Having Satsang with people who understand Gurdev's writings well is pleasant. Some are specializing on chosen words while others are on the way to gain Ph.D. on a part of it.
My humble request is to start a chapter from the beginning. It may be Charitopaakhyaan.

Please give a sign of the Satsang spirit and we start with new heading. Welcome.


Balbir Singh
 

amar_jkp

SPNer
Nov 13, 2006
25
0
Khalsa Fauj ji you are using word bihari just like hindus say you khalistanis sardars or antakwadi sardars. I am not expert on dasam granth but what i can understad is that,there is nothing wrong in akal ustat,khalsa mahima etc.
 

amar_jkp

SPNer
Nov 13, 2006
25
0
Yes there is some confusion related these names. Just because of these names we cant reject whole dasam granth, tell me whats wrong in akal ustat khalsa mahima and jaffarnama.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Das was bust with some offline work so was awy,Akal thanks God so that Das can reply Bhai TKF.

Anyway Das is first tryting to conclude his article.

Gurfateh
So das first takes Into account of 5 things in
Character 16 which some can say look similar to that of Guru.It is strange that our brothers with some racial Punjabi jattism tend to forget that Charectors are not eroticas.
So das will take care of first point
1.the first line.​
One bankof/near Satiluj,Happened to be a lord,living(and) having comforts.
For the wealth one Ramjani came to his place.1.
His place use to have wealth and one ramjani came there.1
For wealth one Ramjani came to that place.1.​
There are three interpretations of the second line and last one is remotest.Das reads hote(happened to be/use to be) and not Het(for) in version which das has.Maybe Translitration from Gurmukhi to Nagri has caused this mistake.​

Das will touch both the cases.
But better is to take the remotest case first.​
For the purpose of Mony only Ramjani came to that place.(in other two cases place is termed wealthy or king is termed wealthy and coming Ramjani is written.It is still not written that Ramjani came to place to have mony) .But if it is het,then she came to his place or that ploace to get wealth.​
Ramjani litraly means been born by God or delivered by God.As prostitutes may not know who there father is(if born from mother in same profession) so God only is her father.
Das looked if there could be some farsi conection as ram is used in farsi like Ramsar(a place on the bank of Caspian sea)Ramjanga(gun) but Jani may not have meaning as far as das is interested.Term zan is used for lady.​
So can the bank of Satiluj be Anandpur Sahib only?​
Answer is no.​
Satluj is river older then Himlayas and is trans himlayan river.It strats from tibbet ,moves into India wide Himachal(making U shaped valley in Himalaya) then enters Punjab plains and then enter Pakistan and further ahead making way for Indus.It moves more then 400 kilometers.(das can write whole geological story about relation Satluj had with Euraisa and Gandvanaland but all such is beyond the scope of this text.When writer use to write such things in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji,then guys use to raise eybrow .When some one is blessed by Akal,the endless,the knowledge endless,then it is OK to not to put all info else point could be over shadowed.Das’s knowledge is anyway still not vey much)​
Say Bank of yamuna can be Paunta Sahib,Delhi,Mathura and up till Allahbad.Rai or lord is mentioned in first line but later on from 10,13,14 lines pair have term king also.And King is repeated again.​
There has been traditions in Hindus to have term rai added to them(Britshers use to tag their jackals as Rai Bahadur)Examples are Medini Rai(of Raisen,central India),Krishandev Raya,Achyut Raya(of Vijay Nagar,South India),Biji Rai(Last Hindu king of Sialkot).​
Muslims also held this title and das will give two on the either sides of Satluj.Rai Bular(in north west) and Rai Kala(in south),both have importance in Sikh history.
As we see from the case of Ranjha(Dido Queshi of Takhat Hazara),Muslim Rais also had interst in Yoga(as he become Yogi of Gorakhnath).Biji Rai also once became Muslim Nasha Shah but before defeat from Ghauri reverts to pagan faith.​
Also das would like to mention Naqshbandi,who are forefathers of present days wahabis. Their Shekh Ahmad was responsible for martyer dom of Fifth Master.They were at Sirhinds.They had whole system ini their language about various glands or Chakras as in yogis.In Pranayams nose is closed.Naqsh is nose and band is to close.​
We see that in 21st Charitar we are given under Eye peak and name Anandpur to exact location for the place.Same can be read at end of Ram Avtar,ie under the foot of eye peak,one the bank of Satiluj.​
But in last Charitar after date it is only mentioned that at the bank of Satiluj.In there also it may not mean that Guru write it at Anandpur Sahib,There also we should know that some other palce also clould be there on the bank of Satiluj where Guru eneded dialogue of Minster and Landowner/king .Guru did write at Paunta Sahib,He did write Jaffernama outside Anandpur Sahib and Sarbloh Granrth was all the more written after leaving Anandpur Sahib.​
There were many War which Guru faught with Hindu Kings,and while stalking them in hills or say near Kiratpur Sahib or otherwise also,why can not Guru also write outside Anandppur Sahib.Alexender use to write while on mission.Why can not Guru do this?​
 
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Why
das wrote all is due to the fact that from first two lines Bank of Satiluj is written to be place where lrd was residing/living.And to that living place Ramjani came.Guru can have only Transit place on the bank of Satiluj but for Anandpur Sahib but had this been then whole detail should have been given as in other two cases.​
Before Ninth Master purchased lands from Hindu king to set up Ananadpur Sahib,then also Hindus were there and were ruling there and later they wanted this place back from Sikhs and that was reason of wars with them.​
Das also wants to say that even if we deem this place as Anandpur Sahib,then at one time Hindu Rai could be ruling before the Ninth Master.​
So Lord,who is later told to be king can not be Guru just by saying that lord,use to live on banks of Satluj is going to be Guru.​
Also in Anandpur Sahib,when Brahmins like Gangu,Pamma and Vedwa can come ,why can not a prostitute to have mony come?​
Prstitution is the oldest profesion as per communists ,they hypothecate that in primary communist stage there was no bond of marriage and man use to provide food and security to women for sex.Das will not justify whith such non sense things the prostitution,which is forbided to Sikhs(but were Sikhs only lving in Anandpur Sahib?There were mnay guys who flead,the area when prince attacked and he rather prosecuted them(Vachitar Natak))Such guys could have been prostitues potential clients if at al she could come there.​
But in Army,solider can be made careless and even sick by females. Honey trap can let the secret out.Vish Kanya or venomous lady could be a lady with sexually tranmitted decease and sent into enmy camp to let soldiers be unhealthy to fight.​
Sikhs are told to stay away from prostitute and adultery for such reason only and this at present times prevent STD and AIDS.​
But das only wanted to take dig at those guys who have hystriya for prostitutes.She due to porty or social background sells her flesh and gets money,she is in flesh trade.But are nit psudo Brahmins like three mentioned above at Anandpur Sahib worse then her,who bully and misguide innocent people and make their coughers fill.​
Anyway inspite of let mind move here there,still,we can not prove just by mention of bank of river,the place as Anandpur Sahib.While king lives there.​
End of question one.
Then let us move ahead with the story.
Chhjiaya was her name all world knew.Her was recoganises by all welwishers as Ladhiya(overt Chhjiya and covert Ladhiya).Who so ever men see her after coming.He became did became devoid of mind,speak and deeds after getting pleasure in heart.2.Dohra.
Examined the lord and was controlled by(the notion) that he does not happen to be in her control./She was controlled by Lord after examining her but she could not control her.(Second explanation is more traditional).(I Will) be slave of (your)slaves After (you make)bed beautiful.27.​

2.At your(place) people come from various directions.(their)Mind desires whichever thing/issue,(they) get the boom/blessing of that. What fault/disobidence is mine,(that) I do not get you.​
Well over here if we see the mythology and history there are many kings who ha miraculous powers.Say in pagan Indian side we have Adi sanakara as well as Matsendra nath entering the body of king and ruling.Then King Vikram had an aide called Baital(Rudra Kinker) and had miraculous powers.King Brithhari later became the great Nath Yogi.King Bhoja had legend of 32 puppet throne.And last person in this line is Lord Krishna.
In Muslims and other semtic faiths.We have Moses as king and with miraculous powers.Noah also had great miracle of boat attached.Then Rsool(SWAS) also has miraculous power as well as fact that he was king.While Hazrat Aurangzeb(RA) also said to have mirculuos powers(which is told lower then that of Guru,in Sau Sakhi).
Then if we see the boom also in physical sense.Then husband is called Bar/var or boom for bride.
When giving of stuff is concerned we have king Harishchandra(who donated all his kingdom and family and self),king shivi(who donated his body),​


Kng Karna(who gave his golden tooth on the deathbed,sorry,while dying in the battle field).King Harshavardhan,who use to donae his cloaths also on Kumbh Mela.In Islamic history we have Example of Hatim Bin Tayee,Prince of Yeman.Who was called Sakhi Hatim.One Sultan of Delhi Sultanate was also once termed as second Hatim.​
With so much example we can not say,this person is going to be a Sikh Guru at all. And we see the taste to learn miracles but no miracle but trick of character is shown.To get rid of the lady.
3.Arhil.Then lord came to house/home,he did such pledge.By good attempt I have protected Dharama/faith/duty.Country(to) Country,(I will) spread the glory of self lord/god.I will never again see other’s wife/lady or other lady.49.​
Can this glory spreading be something to do with Sikhism’s preaching?​
No.​
Was not Aurangzeb(RA) also spreading his Allah’s faith?
In Hindus,showing glory of self lord is more to show their demigods large Temples etc.It is more self ego satisfaction.Due to these large temples did only Turks brooke them and looted them.Sikhs should also learn the lesson and do not apply too much of gold on palanquins or Gurudwaras.Such things did not occur at Guru’s time.
In Himachal,we have Kangbra Devi,Then Kullus has Raghunath deity.We have Chamunda in Mysore.Rana Sanga,Rana Kumbha made other great temples.Ahilya Bai Holker made temples in Allahbad and Gujrat.In Jaipur some temple is to do with deity from east India,kachhwasa brought.Amer fort is named after Amera devi.Ranchor is deity of south Rajasthan and Gujarat.
So spreading the glory of self lord is more in context of yogi or pro nath king for some deity of nath yoga say bhole nath(nath panth declined due idol coiimg in them later else it is more Anti idols.Idol worship of Bhole Nath or Bhairow Nath is more in line when das sees picture and idols or our Gurus in Hindu Temples.Such things need to be discarded as should we do not do the same idol like behaviour with Darbar Sahib.).​
4.There are similar situations in 16 and 21,22,23 and if later is from Guru then former can be also the same.
Even in 21,22 and 23 may not have happened with Guru.But with self example some views were given.
Then in case of two stories difference as follows
1 in 16th one lady has different name and is ramjani and not the wife of rich.​
Das can give mansy such differences but will rather give whole 16 charectors story word to word later.​
Just a briefe account.
A lady who has two name and is prostitute comes to a kings place.For getting mony.She is liked by many,it is in her in intro .But she could not win king,she does occult but fails.She takes an attire of Yogi and comes to king.King thinks to learn some occult from him(who is her).He sends his agent to him(her).She acts well like yogi and tells that by blessing of Gorakh(shiva), she can teach.Agent goes to king and tell him and he comes at mid night,as yogi has told.​
Yogi tells king to bring sura(an ayur vedic medicine with alchohal content and also abused by addicts,liquer is called Madira),lamp and other things (to be used in occult).Yogi wants all others to leave.King abides.
In seclusion yogi tells the king that he will be female and then they will earn consumption(have intercourse).Then after this miracle,occult will be thought.
King refuses telling teacher is like mother or father depending upon gender. He tells to serve them rather.​
 
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te and wants him making her bed beautiful.She tells a good lot of her internal state of mind,also tells about kings potency also.She praises him to be generous or miraculous and requests him to come on her.​
He tells her that he came to learn occult while she has other intention.He says that his dharm does not allow this(celibacy is more in Nath yoga and those who deem Rama as ideal such guys give Ramas staying aloof with other ladies who wanted to marry him or perhaps want to share him from Sita.Examples are Sarop Nakha,Naga Pricess(Ahiravana episode) and Vaishnavi Devi(whose Temple of Vaishnau Devi is near Jammu)(First one is negative while toher two are in positive light)).
She made various charectors(assuming other roles or character then own one).She tried occult onto him.Then she shouted thief.People came,and She told them,she only had a dream.Then she again threatened,him of getting him bounded.​
Then lord made thought as such,by palying some character,let met get out of here and Mantra(occult) he came to learn here,has its essence in this escape only.
If I run,then honur will lgo and if do consumption(of sex) then Dharama will go.Both are difficult choise and may creator be helpful.I any son will be born then she will be joker/entertainer and if girl then She will be prostitute.(over here it more a sort of racial ego of rulers of that time,while mnay rulers had their sons and doughter going such works due to their misdeeds)He also thought again the two ways and harm from both.
He told her,that she is beutifull and he was regretting to refuse her.​
He asks her to bring intoxicants and after using them ,they will have bhoga(utilization of sex).She bbecame happy and asked for all such things and gets it prepaired.
Then lord thought for that day lesson of Mantra is to not recite her(ie sleep with her).I will intoxicate her,put her on bed(let her be asleep) and will run away givng her 60 coins..
Then there is message within whole of this charitar.
Dohara.Do not know love but appreance of money.Scorpia,snake and prostitute,tell? Are whose friend?.43.​
He kept her giving intoxicants and kept pretending love to her,till she was overcome by intoxication.When she was asleep on bed,Happened by giving her sixty coins he took path of run.(no where das could read that sixty coins were left on her head’s side on bed)..​
Then another message and belive it that it is still the part of present day curiculla of a spy training.
Who does benfit/profit/hit to you,you do not do to that person.
Who showers pleasures to you,to that do not shower.
Of whose mind intention(bat) you can not get.
Do not show the secret of self mind to that(let it) happen.47.
Lord ran intoxicating lady and came setting in home and no one saw him.​
(From here das will put four lines and last two lines of that put das also in delima for some time and das overcame this with three solutions)So take it as point 5.
Arhil.Then lord,after coing to home did so,such a pledge. By Good attempt now I have protected my faith/dharma.Country to country I will spread the glory of my Lord.I will never ever again see the other lady.49.Dohra..That ought from that day covers in my heart.From that day,(I) do not see other’s wife ever.50.1..
So das will explain 4 and 5 point in single.​
Let us see fifth one first.
Das thinks a missionary and with Brahmin conspiracy theory that,poision is been given wrapped in suger.Last line makes agenda of 405 Character visible,ie to pain Guru in bad light and also misguides Sikhs off the teaching of Guru Granth Sahib.​
Das is feeling very tense and weak like missionary feels.mind is full of regret and mourning.
It appears that narrator or writer is said to be the king as last line is in first person.(in Salok Mahal Ninth there are verse about Bal Chhutkio Bandhan Pare Kachh Hu Na hote Upaye.. then next verse comes to mind Bal hova Bandhan Chhute….)
So there persons can be speakers of last two lines.​
1. The King

2. The minister who says story to king

3. The writer who is Guru
Case 1 is most valid.As in four lines before 50 ie 49th verse has second line with Kings saying in first person.Bhale Jatan So Rakh Dharam Ab Mai Liyo.By good attempt I protected by dharma now.
Let us see the whole last block again.
Arhil.Then lord,after coing to home did so, such a pledge. By Good attempt now I have protected my faith/dharma.Country to country I will spread the glory of my Lord.I will never ever again see the other lady.49.Dohra..That ought from that day covers in my heart.From that day,(I) do not see other’s wife ever.50.1..
One pledge was made after coming to slef home.it was to spread glory of self lord and to not to see other lady or may be other’s lady.That could mean celibacy in case other lady while rama like attitude in case it is other’s lady.
That oought from that day covers my heart.
Here king could be saying still but after that day.By this narrator wants to say that thereafter king kept on saying this,after that episode.Other then that day,rather for ever.
Next could be the minster ie case 2.
Minister says that that ought of king covers his heart(he rembers it thoroughly) and and from that day he does not see else’s lady.Here that day means the day king did pledge,it is in heart of minister also.
Case 3 could be from the day King made pledge,it is in heart of Guru also.

But one thing comes that here case is of avoiding Prostitue and why are people taking pledge to not to see elses lady.
Prostitue is also elses lady.And taking inspiration from non Sikh for good is OK.Weather it is mythological or true.Are not inspiration of Dhru and Pralad is there in Darbar Sahib?
Comong to point 4 about similarity in cases.
Both are not the deto.To point each and evry differnace is beyond the scope and wolrd to world translaton will help in there.
Some examples in similarity in history.
Alam and Ghanand both were poet and had a muslim girlfriend .
Rasol(swas) and Moses both were prophet and king.
Story of Manu and Noah are similar(boat in flood).
Killing of young by king is similar in case of Lord Jesus and Lord Krishna and leaving to safer area from birth place is also similar.
Prophet of Islam made some forecaste.First master also made(abour Sher Shah).
Bhagat Namdev turned temple so First Master turned Qibla.
Sheikh Salim Chisti blessed Akber with son,Baba Budha blessed Fifth Master with son.
Both in case of Sixth Master and in case of Lord Krishan,there were attempts on life in young age.
List can move further.Some can be true and some can be myth but similar things do happen.​
So the thing could be a case study of Hindu king(in 16 character),who is famous for generoussity and is fond of learning occult and miracle.He is in suop and how does he handles.
Leson from story.
1.do not go to yogis and do not have interest to learn mantras etc.practicle expiriace In lifes are real mantras.
2.occult is useless(she fails to influence the king by occult twice it is written).
3.Narrater tells and king also finds that prostitute had no love but wanted money so no need to love her.(das thinks that as per reformative principle of Gurmat,if Prostitue loves some one and both want to marry,it is OK(as she may be given a chance to live weded life out of hell,Hindus may not agree to such things) but love should be not between humans but with Akal.
4.Do not get overwhelmed by a person as he starts to gives you benefit(this is the way by which agents are recruited in spies)/do not do anything with those benefits.Nor should we get showered by pleasure a person who is showering pleasure onto us.Of that person whoses things in mind we self can not get,we should not give secret of self mind to that person.​
Main story seems to be ended in 46th verses,47th has message and last three are just covering up of meaasage .Pledge by king etc. also can act over cover up to the message.
Character before it has15.264. at end before to be continued while one succeeding it has17.341,while this has 16.314.​
Any opposer will say not fit to Gurbani and fails here as Guru can not do mistake.Had they
 
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seen Akal in all and had broad mind and not the narrow mind and with Akal blessing they could have seen the code hidden in this message.
Reverse 314 we get 413.
Bt here first 3 tell last three verse as a cover up and middle 1 is 47th versee and main meassage and 4 is first letter of reamiaing 46 verses.
On internet also in OSI model we use some keys to crypt the data and ps 2nd or 3rd decrypt the same.It is in perhaps second or thierd layer.We keep on changing the key else hackers can recoganse the pattern and create the problem for us.
Guru one with timeless had such qaulifiactions.
But 46 lines also had some more things about Hindu king when we say that he left some mony.Hindus sometime act like fool due to racial ego.As Prthivraj left Ghauri ,who later came and killed him.It is same line that he did fulfil the wish of mony of prostitute for which she was asking him to have sleep with her.This can be otherwise tactical appeasement.
When we compare this with block of 21,22,and 23,we are told that how could a person,better then Hindu act in such circumstances.
Shias often cry Ya Hussain Hum NA huye,ie had we been at that time when Hazrat Hussain(AS for Shias and RA for Sunnis and Das) were martyered .
Did not Dalla Brara also told Guru,that had his menin Anandpur Sahib,then things were in Gurus favoer and Guru shows him the mind and not the might which matters ith the braver of Vir Singh And Dhir Singh from Ranrittas.
Entering into positon is different,handling is different and acting with lady is different.
Two more points to be added before conclusions.
5.Can Sikh use drugs or alchohal against the enemy as king did to prostitute.
We see that in Punjab GOI or RSS is blamed to spread drug to ruin the Sikh youth(Hindus also more from lower caste are addicted in there).
Opium was used by Britshers in China to ruin that nation,leading to opium war.
Pakistan pumps opium etc in India along with pornography.
Doubt about Shre Dasham Granth also are there imaginary Brahmin want to encourage drugs in us.
So das finds OK to use sward against the foe.As Guru tells us bit does not tell us to use against the self.So to get info from foe side,if we use alchohal as trap for person on their side das does not find the fault.
We may talk anything but when Sikh state will come ,we will use such things.In Islam wine is tabbo but,there ISI may use intoxicants against the {censored}.They may even use sex.Even if we do not use,we should know their ways to defend ourself.
Another point.Who could be the reciver of such meassages.
Since the time of Ninth Master,semi Muslim Jatt Tribals in Malwas were on way to Gurmat.Some were on the governments pay role.Like Chaudhari Shammir. So in such cases like to press Sikhs,Governement who was otherwise hard was to be soft with these tribes.
They were warned,that government should not be trusted.Das was today reading Ganda Singh’s book of Huqamanammahs(page 168,169). We have one letter to Miharchand,Peshkar KHUFIYE.
Khufiya in Urdu means intelligence.In Farsi under covers are termed a poshide. Date of that letter is 6.2.1702A.D.(UK style date in dd.mm.yyyy.)
So this is proof of inteliigence service of the Guru.
Lastly in conclusion das request the people who tend to talk a lot about scinces in Gurmat that plotics,diplomacy,inteliigence and human bevoius etc are all scinses.And you all want to give credit of this to a Brahmin.And not Guru.Why?
For scince objective reporting is must and why should we be subjective like protestants,Arya Samajis etc.?







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Note: It is poet soom sofi, not poet saam sofi. I apologize for the error. Sorry for the mistake.

Give refreance where is that mention.Soom mean inocent and Soofi is claer.

“So das does the work by mercy of Bhagaouti.,who is Mahakal and who is Kalaka and who is Akal.
Chariter 20 78
You have drugged your self rather in ego and fear of Hindus.
It is from 21st,22nd and 23rd Chaectors.”
I don’t fear hindus. Why would I fear hindus? I fear Guru and Akaal and I fear the unseen soti (stick) of Akaal. Do you? Anyone saying tria chariters (koke shaster / kaama sutra / kaam shaster) isn’t Sikh and doesn’t fear Akaal at all. Not only that, in 1973, Akaal Takht made it clear that tria chariters isn’t work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. This was before the derawaala/rss influence on Akaal Takht. All day you talk about drugs and sexual stories and promote them yet you think you are preaching Gurmat. Wake up!

Bhai issue is not resolved and ask the present Jathedar.Give proof of your claim then just accusing.

Thniking of Hindus,you think that they can do harm to you.For das they stand no where in front of Khalsa,they only need our help as they are very weak,due to thier on problems.

That chariter 20 and 78 thing is not related to anoop kuar story. That is some code I use to find some things. It has nothing to do with noop kuar.

you gave that number.Did not you.
Kal can’t = Akaal. These are opposite words. Just Mahakaal is just bigger kaal and can’t be Akaal. Even though poets shyam, raam and soom sufi think so along with poet kal.

so Ajay and Jay are oppsite.Jay or vijay means victroius.Ajay mean can not be won.

Kal mean death or time to all and Akal means on that no time can affect.

Ashutosh is also bihari and he acts holy too but he has been exposed.
Do you know that he can not preach in Bihar.

why?Why he has some power in Punaj,due to Jatts.

RSS agents promote caste system and divide people into caste system.

RSS are bunch of idiots but caste system is there in fake akalis also.
Vijaydeep, didn’t you make fun of juts on msn when you talked to me? You thought I believed in caste system but I didn’t.

No that was not the reason.Jaats did not allow a god lots of Dalits under Baba Sahib to be Sikh.They still have covert racial attitude.For your info ancestors of Das are from Hariana migrated to Bihar.Gotra of Father of Das is Virk/Solanki and we have family realtions with jaats.Some so called Sikhs are jatts and not Sikh and worthy to be made fun of.
Sikhs don’t believe in caste system, know this well. Tria chariters also divide people into caste and divides people. Anyone promoting it is a promoter of caste system. No wonder nihungs have different Amrit for people belonging to different castes. Damdami Taksal also followed this practice until Kartar Singh became their Jathaydar. However, from recent reports, Akhara pind still follows this and gives leftover Amrit to lower castes. This is direct violation of Guru’s maryada and is direct opposition of the most fundamental principles of Gurmat if not the fundamental principle.

Triya Chairitar use language of lower castes telling them to uproot currpt upper castes.And Singh did do this later.

Das will reply to you issue about Niuhngs after 26.01.07 or you visit Amrit Sanskar at Gurudwara Mata Sahib Devan.Hajur Sahib.

“If Gangu can come there inpersonatiin as good cook then why canot otheer people come.But where is term Prostitute been writtan even once?
Say if some lady tires to indulge in adulatry due to Pagan influence while entering as decent lady how can pure minded Sikhs imagine such thing.Just as they are not ******* like you.
At start of 21 Charitar lady is termed as wife of wealthy.So as per your logic all wives of wealth are protiture including mother of das.Well are your father also wealthy?”
Raamjani means prostitute (Chariter 16). How can pure Guru imagine being fooled by a prostitute?

Das only wanted to say that Prostitutes are better then people like Gangu,If you like him then it is your problem.Anyway 16 Charecter does not talk about Guru.


“Na Oh Mrai Naa Thaagai Jaahay, Jin Kay Raam Vsai Mun Maahai”
So Guru doesn’t get fooled.

This is out of context over here but Guru did try to be imperfect so that people may not start to worship him.Guru used term insect for himself.Previous Guru used term Dog for self(Term Dog was also refrewerd by Guru to non belivers of one God)If you want das can write.

Kukar Hau Begana Bhauka Is Tan Tahi.

Jaise Sukar Swan..(Salok Mahal Nauvan).

What is the star for? What are you trying to call me? Are you losing it? Send that word to me in personal message. Why are you putting statements into my mouth? Where did I say all rich women are prostitutes? Are you going to make you case properly or just confuse people and bash them? What is protiture? Never heard of that word. Someone who can’t even type properly is here to debate on big issues. Why do you care if my father is wealthy? You want money to join the right side? Wives of wealth doesn’t make sense either. When did wealth start having wives? My father won’t give you a penny. He isn’t corrupt and doesn’t indulge in corruption. He doesn’t take anyone’s money and neither does he give money as bribes. He never did it and the whole area around my village knows and everyone respects my dad. Do you have any jealousy issues with my dad?

Yuo told Anup Kaur as Prostitue,while she is writtan as wife of Rich or wealthy.Ladhiya is the lady in question and from Charector 16.Read all the work and just not qoute wrongly translated.

Das only wanted to tell you that wife of wealthy does not mean prostitute.
If you want to talk bachitter natak granth with him, send me you phone number. He will call you. Don’t blame me after that he was rude to you. He does have anger management problems. He can’t keep it under control. If you are brave, then postmail me your phone #. Next time have proper sentences and type properly or don’t post. Make your statements precise if you are so smart. I don’t like reading confusing words that don’t exist in the dictionary as I don’t like it and is a waste of time.

Das gives you his phone number here and then.0091-9891523837.

Das will not mid if your father abuses das.Das has got a good practise of having it from you.Anyway,if he can be not happy with Brahmanicals,how can not you say That Guru was Happy and did not exposed crroupted Brahmnaicals etc vide Triya Charitars.

“There is no prositure but wife of rich who after entering Anandpur sahib wants to comit dualtray with Guru.If Pama or Parmanada can come in and think of wrong about Langer(as he finds its anti caste)and incite Hindu kings, so is not he more then lady trying to comit adultery.”
Sexual positions are described in many other chariters. Chariter followers should first read history and then chariters? A lot of things would be clear. Someone probably read some tria chariters and had a wet kuschee after which the person didn’t read any more. This is a different situation. This has to do with character defamation (note the spelling) of Guru Ji and has nothing to do with opposition of langer or nagara or whatever you want to link to it. Anyone participating in defamation of Guru’s character is not only a Panth dokhi but is an enemy of society and is not even a human; forget about being a Sikh.

Bhai das has done some work on Brother Sumras work and will explain that what is diferant betwen errotic and wrong interpetaion.Asans are mnetioned.Do you want das to describe them as they are done in Errotica?
 
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If Wahiguru is God and Bhauti is God then what why should not there be Manter in Gurmat.
Wahiguru is Gurmanter,Then we have Mool Mantra and as per Bhai Daya Sngh JI Beej Mantra is Sat Sri Akal.
In fact to utter disgusting false propogand by you.In 21st Character,Guru in order to get Mantra did Bhaguti Manana and not Mantra.That is a sort of request to Bhaguti.What is our Ardas?Prtham Bhagouti Simar Kai.”
Bhai Daya Singh rehatnama is not even 50% correct. It has a lot of flaws just like the 4 vedas.

Prove it.
Do you even know what character means? It is chariter, not character. Don’t invent your own new definitions of words.

Wow.So das is making something,which you did not know.

Das told you to learn the Language.Come and read dictories.Charitarwan or with Charitar is high charectered.While Chariter heen means chreacterless.

Das is sure that you do not know much about Sanskrit or Braj Bhasha so you say like that.Charitar Pakhans means,telling about Chreacters,which were heard.Akhyan is something seen.Good knows why dop you live in cocoon.Created by your self.Try to come out.
Chundee Dee Vaar isn’t Gurbani either so I don’t know what you are on about. Didn’t you know already? Want to report me to Vedanti and get me summoned to Akaal Takht? Vedanti isn’t Akaal Takht jathaydaar, I don’t accept him as Jathaydaar or his buddies who issue hukamnamas against Panthic GurSikhs and give siropas to Panthic dushts.

So Jathedar who abides by you as someone did as you say against Dasham Granth is Ok and one who is not is Not OK.Very nice.In Match you can say change the ****** empire.This is hypocrcy.Das can say that then Jathedar is not acceptable to das,if at all he was there?Das will not say anyway.
This isn’t false propaganda. I will translate chariter 16, 21, 22, 23 and post the real meaning without have corruption in mind to fool innocent GurSikhs. Why would the writer say Bhagauti? When Guru Ji left, Guru Ji said
Pooja Akaal Dee and not pooja bhagauti dee.

Do and learn Braj before doing it.Das rembers your calling Taika as Taatta,that is good,thing and good knowledge of Gurmukhi.

Do you know what is Bhagwan?One male with Bhag ie source as Vagina.Akal is niether male not female so both Bhgwan and Bhagwati.Akal is Anam as all names are of Akal.

Das understands great sprituality you have,Das feels the pain of hell while replying to falsehood,yet das does this and will continue ,till you keep on bringing wrong things up here,for you and more for other Sangats,who could be misguided as you have been.
It says there was a raja and uses third person. The quotes you posted have English translations which are not correct and it seems like it is 3rd person when it is Bhagat Namdev Ji talking about himself. There is no false propaganda; in fact, there is no propaganda at all. It is all about facts with me.


There are many verse in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,where Third person is used.As you talk about King,it is in 16 th Chartecter.

“This shows you lack in vocabulary,Mantra also means plan.Mantrana means consultation.Mantiri is a consular and final draft is Matta.Have you not heard of Gurmata.”
Lack of vocabulary? Hahaha! At least I don’t invent meanings. Hahaha! Why couldn’t the Guru consult with the jogi (woman) in Darbar? Why did it have to be at night? Maybe you didn’t know but the the jogi also says that with the blessing of Gorakhnaath, the raja won’t go empty handed. Therefore, mantar doesn’t mean consultation but the jantar mantar one. Then it says that the jogi asked raja to send out all the people in presence outside and bring dhoof (sandalwood wick?), deeva (wick lamp), chawal (rice), full (flowers) and good liquor. Then it says that the raja did as ordered. Would someone ever ask Guru to bring liquor when the Guru tells Sikh not to even think about drinking it? If this mantra wasn’t related to the tantar mantar one then what was the need for dhoof, deeva, rice and flowers? How stupid and low are the tria chariter promoters going to get to defame 10th Guru Nanak? I don’t know why these low life skunks are even sent to this planet. There is more to it which I won’t go through right now as the replies are going to be really long anyways. Related chariters will be talked about after. Only rare people have the bibek buddi to realize truth. Only those who really care about Panth and Guru get the real bibek budh. Not those who have personal agendas.

Das gave a refreance which had Mantar in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as plan.In Charitar 108 and 109 perhaps ,of Sasi and urbasi,term Mantra is there for plan.

You are mixing up 16th and 21th 22nd and 23rd. Mantra of 21 has been talked about.16th has nothing to do with Guru.

“Man in Guru Granth Sahib there are 74 times term Mantra comes.
Das brings in here only 30.”
Posting unrelated Gurbani quotes and going off topic will not make the statements any more credible. I already proved in the previous post what the word mantra means in that situation.

Yuo have tried to say that Sikhs can not use term Mantra.And das showed,you.


“When King Shiv Nabh send Harlots to Guru Nanak Dev Ji and he reformed them.Did not those Sri Lankend daughters of Guru had fearlessness beore meeting the Guru?
What about 400 Hundred Pathans who diteched Guru after staying with him.did they not have fear?When Akal wants bad time for sometime or wants to teach that person a lesson.All fear of good is lost in that.Same is happening to you.”
Guru Nanak Dev Ji reformed the dancers easily. It is said that the dancers stopped their misbehavior when they saw Guru Nanak’s. Why didn’t Guru Gobind Singh Ji use the same power to make the prostitute get to the right path? Those pathans weren’t Sikh and were after the money only. When the pathans were gone, they were gone. There should have been fear of God which they didn’t have. Here, it should have been fear of Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s shasters. Pathans thought hill rajas would back them up and they would win but they didn’t know how strong the Sikh army was. Too bad they lost. Why are you personally attacking me again? If you want to indulge in personal attacks, come back on msn like last time.

Read the Charitar 21st,22nd and 23rd.Reform is there.

Coming to pathans,They lived with Guru for long time and did not know the power of Guru?Why ?Was Guru secrative?No they know the power but lust or greeds makes a person blind and that person looses discreetion.


Das still thinks that yuorself feel you as an entity and are yet to be one with universe,where you will find your ego ending and only Akal being there.Then das will ask you how do you understand Dasham Granth Sahib.

Yes an agent of RSS appeals to you to at least one day read all of the Sukhmani Sahib and with Teeka.Yuo will understand the truth.


On msn you initially said that poet raam, shyam, etc. were names pen names of Guru Ji but when I said it is hindu thing, you backtracked by saying that no, this is what some people say. This is how much truth you have. Looks like the bad times for Dasam Granth chelas are coming, won’t be long before they are kicked out of Gurudwaras and sent packing to their real locations, bollywood, or Hollywood, or some other {censored} khana place because Dasam Granth promoters are nothing but a bunch of kanjars.

Yuo are aware that who has been kicked out.Kala Afghana Sahib,Ghugga Sahib.If you give your address,your own people will kick you.

When did das tell you by the way that Guru had any pen names?

Just in your imgination.Here as per Budhadal,Das thought that Ram and Siam etc are Darbari Kavis(poets of Guru) initaly.Das verfied this from a book fr45om Dr Sahib Singh Ji.Das futher did the reserach and found that this was based upon the name Ram and Siam in Dasham Granth Sahib(from the missioanries of Shahbad Markanda).Das doubted that and resloived that they are name of Akal,As Gobind is.

You are mistakinf someone else with das.We have only talked about an year ago and das never said anything about pen names of Guru.Das did write his views in Gursikhijeevan.com on this issuem,that they are name of God.

Anyway again das has seen urge to kick.Das can only say that this weakens you further in the eyes of Sangat,being uncivilsed and full of jattism.Not Sikhism.

“Did not Aurangzeb Had guts to ask Guru to convert to Islam.Sinner is also powerfull and viturus is power full when he defeats sinner.And you know that she was not successsfull.”
Aurangzeb never even talked to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, he was in south. Do you even know history? She was successful. She wanted money and she got the 60 coins+. At the start of the chariter it clearly says what the motive of the woman was. Chariter followes should read the chariters before they debate on them. Looks like the chariter followers only read the posted quotes and make up garbage to justify they are Gurmat. Gurmat is so cheap that any garbage can be linked to my Guru. Gurmat is priceless but what would a sarkaree agent know about it?

So Auranga and his men never told Guru to convert.OK,Sis Ganj Sahib is fake and Bhai Mati Das Chowk is fake.And fake are sacrfise of threes Sikhs who were killed brutallyto make Guru afraid.It is matter of research that Auranga was in south or not.give refreance please.

Then,you gave refreance for Anup Kaur and now you go for Ladhiya.In fact Anup Kaur is the word which never appaered in 16th,21th,22nd and 23rd chrecters)

“Why did not Guru knew Gangu Pandit?Guru here also knew about her but whated to make a lesson for us.
Guru knew everything then why did he had faithn in false outght of cow and Kuran by Hindus and Muslimm indavders respectively?
He knew but he had to work Kautak.(acts to teach Sikhs lesson on world).”
Gangu was just a cook and he betrayed the Sahibzadas, Mata Ji and Guru Ghur. Guru Sahib knew it and it doesn’t harm the image of Guru Ji. It doesn’t defame Guru Ji but it promoted the greatness of Guru Ji and the sahibzadas and mata ji. It set an example for Sikhs to keep their Khalsa spirits. It was the Shaheedi of Sahibzadas and Guru Ji which enraged the Sikhs to destroy Sihund and take charge.

So later when Khalsa attacked Village of Gangu and village of Jani Khan and Mani Khan to avenge,they did not act as per Gurmat.What a logic.


Then further,Guru went in South and did not kill Vazir Khan,It was greatness of Khalsa.Sends Banda before Ghurra Khan(as per Sau Sakhi,relative of Painda Khan) stabbed him.All glory of Khalsa.

It is more to do with political wisdom and using the best of oppwertuntiy then trying to bound Guru with ideology.

If as you say foe were let off(you said that in Khalsa spirit) then reformed lady will not be left off and rewarded(21st,22nd and 23rd Chreacter).
It wasn’t hanuman chalisa or 24 avtar as RSS agents say. Guru Hargobind Singh Ji started the singing of Dhadi Vars to instill bir russ into Sikhs. Garbage like 24 avtars isn’t needed. That is work of poet Shyam anyways. As the opening of it stated “Burnutt Shyam Juthaa Mutt Bhaa-ee” meaning “Shyam states narrates the stories according to his knowledge/understanding.”

When das talked to you about Hinduism,yuo were fond of talking.Yuo said hindusim is mess.Das can say that person who has messed up mind is Hindu.

So dear Hindu lover.See one thing.RSS never talked about any Hanuman Chalisa,rather it is not a Hindu text(it is in Bhojpuri and Sanskrit guys may not like it).

Coming to Chaubees Avtar.

They are told to be fake.

And what starts 24 Avtars have a look.


ਮੁਖ ਭਾਗ 7
मुख भाग 7
CHAPTER 7

ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ
चौबीस अउतार
CHAUBIS AVTAR (Twenty-Four Gods)

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ ॥
वाहिगुरू जी की फ़तह ॥
The Lord is one and the Victory is of the Lord.

ਭਾਗ
भाग
SECTION

ਅਥ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਇੱਕੀਸਮੋ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਥਨੰ ॥
अथ क्रिशना अवतार इकीसमो अवतार कथनं ॥
Now begins the description of KRISHNA INCARNATION, the twenty-first incarnation.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਅਬ ਬਰਣੋ ਕਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਅਵਤਾਰੂ ॥ ਜੈਸ ਭਾਂਤ ਬਰੁ ਧਰਯੋ ਮੁਰਾਰੂ ॥
अब बरणो किशना अवतारू ॥ जैस भांत बरु धरयो मुरारू ॥
No I describe the Krishna incarnation as to how he assumed the physical form;

ਪਰਮ ਪਾਪ ਤੇ ਭੂਮ ਡਰਾਨੀ ॥ ਡਗਮਗਾਤ ਬਿਧ ਤੀਰ ਸਿਧਾਨੀ ॥੧॥
परम पाप ते भूम डरानी ॥ डगमगात बिध तीर सिधानी ॥१॥
The earth, with unsteady gait, reached near the Lord.1.
ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਗਯੋ ਛੀਰ ਨਿਧ ਜਹਾਂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਇਸਥਿਤ ਥੇ ਤਹਾਂ ॥
ब्रहमा गयो छीर निध जहां ॥ काल पुरख इसथित थे तहां ॥
Amidst the milk-ocean, where the Immanent Lord was seated, Brahma reached there;

ਕਹਯੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਹ ਨਿਕਟ ਬੁਲਾਈ ॥ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਧਰੋ ਤੁਮ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥
कहयो बिशन कह निकट बुलाई ॥ क्रिशन अवतार धरो तुम जाई ॥२॥
The Lord called Vishnu near Him and said, "You go to the earth and assume the form of Krishna incarnation.2.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੇ ਬਚਨ ਤੇ ਸੰਤਨ ਹੇਤ ਸਹਾਇ ॥ ਮਥਰਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਕੇ ਬਿਖੈ ਜਨਮ ਧਰਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥੩॥
काल पुरख के बचन ते संतन हेत सहाइ ॥ मथरा मंडल के बिखै जनम धरयो हरि राइ ॥३॥
Vishnu took birth in Mathura area for the welfare of saints, on receiving the orders of the Loard.3.


So stop telling lies you either hear or cook.

Coming to Dhadi Vars.

Are you aware that Dhadis also sing Sarbloh Bani.

Then fuirther to it.

Why did not Sixth Master gave Sikhs the surname Singh or Kaur?\

why did not Term Khalsa was used?

Why not Amrit of Khanda started?

You need to know that Sixth Master fought Three or four Wars but all were in defeance.

Tenth Master war did have offence like expeditoon to Nadaun or Rescue mission of Hoshiyarpur.

You have defenisve mind but Dasham Granth is full of offense to non Sikhs in wrong work and some Sikhs are also targetted(Charecter 49).

Do you know that Sixth Master shifted the base form Amritsar Sahib to Kiratpur Sahib.Why?To make a base for future Guru.

Why did Sixth Master wrote any of his own Veer Ras Bani? and Why Baba Tyagmal later called Guru Tegh Bahdur Sahib ,had Bairagmai Bani(verse full of detachment)?

Becasue he wanted to make Sikhs loose all attachments and then get ready for offensive.

As per Bhagu's book,intialy Sikhs were not ready for offensive,Tenth Guru understood,this due to Sanitly attitude,due to Amrit of foot.Amrit of Sabre was made and Chandi Di var is said to sung over there.Sikhs started to fight among each other after taking that.So mother Sahib Devan put some sweet cakes or Patasha,so that Sikhs may also have some restrain.This is legend.Telling power of Sarbloh Bani.

Rember one thing,Das is sure that you have so far not learnt Shaster Vidiya.If you do not then as it happened to Ghugga Sahib.Due to fear of physical health,you may not be able to speak truth publicaly.Once you learn that,you will understand,what does Vars mean in Shaster Vidiya.

Kirpan became part of Kaker after Tenth Master,Yuo do not know how to use that.Yuo need to know,and later das will be happy if you stab das also.But learn this.And you will find the relavense of Beer Rasa,which you have thought off only and never used.





The only lesson taught from tria chariters is women are evil and do bad things and should not be trusted. Sikhs had already learned not to get into other women by Guru Nanak and Bhai Gurdass’s vars make it clear


This means that Triya Charitar are as per confirimirty with Bani already sent?

Anyway what was the need for Ninth Master to write his Bani if All was completed by the Time of Fifth Master?

.
Don’t tell me tria chariters give better lesson the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There is also something called Sikh rehat maryada which tells Sikhs what to do and what not to do.

Das Sikh Rahit Maryada tells us about our foes like Dwij Varg ie Kshtriya,Brahmin, Vaishya,who can inflict harm onto us?

Does that expose thier follies behind the name of faith?

By the way Muslims are also targeted.


Character defamation can’t be accepted at kautak and neither can be {censored} poetry. If someone doesn’t believe me, just look at the situation of saad babas. They promote Dasam Granth and are the biggest kanjars and kaamis. Their bhoras aren’t made for bhugtee but to drag girls there and rape them. Don’t get mad at me and harass me, just read the newspapers and the person would understand.

Main thing is the way you are targetting Sadh over here,in the same way did Guru targetted Yogis,Qazis etc vide Triya Charitar.

Differance is that he was offensive and your self his son are defensive.No need to be self consius.Thinks of enemy in front of you and get over it.

Yuo enmy makes you ponder on yourself and you are busy with self and,that by the way ends you.

Yuor and das's foe is just the same.But you want to end das first then your foe.

Das will take care of foe.In that time if you kill das,there will be mnay more das's from the blood of das.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Biggest foes are direct Guru Nindaks so they need to be handled first.
Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't give new philosophy. It was the same as that of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Poets have identified themselves and that is enough for me. Sikhs were already keeping the rehats. Guru Sahib just finalized them. Sikhs were carrying Kirpans since time of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji. Maybe you don't know but Guru Sahib only defended. Saving people from looters or saving daughters from devils is defending, not offending.
If someone reads all the charters with open mind, the person know what is work of which poet.
There is nothing to decode in shund #s. It is a mess up by uneducated people.

Guru Sahib never read Chandi Di Var for Bir russ as it wasn't needed. Neither is it needed now. Guru Sahib gave Dhadi Vars to get bir russ. Some dhadis do sing chandi di var but it isn't Gurmat. Number of dasam granth promoters is decreasing daily. If you don't believe me, then see for yourself. Other than the 10-15 sell out scholars. No other scholar accepts it.
Also, Vijaydeep, you aren't the only scholar of Braaj or Sanskrit. Get rid of your ego and stop attacking missionaries.
It was missionaries who kicked people like narianu out of Darbar Sahib. It was missionaries who launched and won the Morchas.
Did your derawalas win any morcha they launched?
They failed in all of them. Why? Because of dasam granth.
 
Dec 1, 2006
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Side Note: We must know that the writer when referring to the king near Satluj river, is directing the talk towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is further made clear when it says that followers from all over the places came and received boons. Not only that, it also talks about the king being young and a religious leader. There should be no doubt that it is directed towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chariter 16
Dohra
Near the Satluj River, a king lived happily. A prostitute arrived in the city to make money. 1.
Investigation: Anandpur was newly established and was under control of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhs mostly lived there so it is hard to believe that a prostitute would have customers in Anandpur Sahib. Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Arill
Everyone knew her as Shujeeya but her lovers referred to her as Ludeeya. Every man who saw her, became attracted to her and received pleasure in the heart. 2.
Investigation: Who were her lovers? Were they Sikhs? The writer fails to make it clear. Did the Sikhs also become attracted to her and visited her? Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Dohra
She was attracted towards the king but she could not convince him. She thought about ideas to meet the king. 3.
(She thought) He doesn’t for love me so what should be done? He doesn’t come to my house and neither does he call me to his house). 4.
Some way has to be found to meet him fast. She thought that maybe he could be won over through jantars and mantars. 5.
She was exhausted trying jantars and mnatars but he king didn’t visit her. Then she plotted a ploy to allure the king. 6.
She dressed in orange clothing which the Yogis wear and bowed to the king when entering the king’s court. 7.
Investigation: Did the prostitute not know where she was going? Did she think that the Guru would fall for her? Is this not an attack on Guru Sahib? Is this not questioning the character of Guru Sahib? Then the writer says that she tries jantars and mantars. Maybe the writer didn’t know but Gurmat doesn’t agree to performing mantars. It is strictly against Gurmat. The writer again fails to mention that mantars are against Gurmat. Also Guru Ji was so unaware that he could not tell the difference between a woman dressed as a yogi and a man dressed as a yogi? Is this not an attack on the greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
Arill
Seeing the Yogi, the king was impressed internally and thought about receiving some mantars from the yogi. King called a messenger, told him what to say and sent him to the Yogi (prostitute) so he the king could learn the skill of mantars. 8.
Investigation: Once again, the writer makes Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a king searching for mantars. Someone could say that the mantars here don’t mean the magic spells but it means consultation or virtues. Even if that point is accepted, it still doesn’t make it correct as there is no reason to learn virtues from a yogi or have consultation with yogis on Panthic or even personal matters. Guru is the one who teaches others, not the other way around. However, the mantars here mean magic spells. This will be proven later in the chariter. Is this not slandering Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Could someone promoting this garbage be considered a Sikh of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Is there any shame left?
Chaupai
King’s servant went to the Yogi. Whatever the king had said, the servant repeated to the Yogi. Servant asked the Yogi to give some mantars to the king and to please complete this task for his boss (king). 9.
Investigation: So Guru was sending his servants to make appointments to learn mantars from yogis? Why was Guru Sahib so desperate to learn mantars when they are not even as per Gurmat? Guru Sahib said something and did something?
Dohra
The yogi opened his/her eyes after 3 hours and told the servant to bring the king to her/his house if the king wanted to learn virtues. 10.
Bring him to me at midnight. With Gorakh’s blessing, the king will not go back empty handed. 11.
Investigation: Why did the yogi have her/his eyes closed for 3 hours? Closing eyes is also against Gurmat. Gurbani calls it hypocrisy and the writer again fails to mention this. The writer then says with Gorakh’s blessings; here Gorakh means Gorakh Naath the yogi. Gurmat only says to worship Akaal and look for help from Akaal. Not some deities or humans or saints, no matter how great they are. This is evidenced in the concept of ‘Pooja Akaal Kee’ meaning worship of God. God is worshipped by following Gurbani. Gorakh Naath was the founder of the yogi sect of Hinduism. Was Gorakh Nath greater than Guru Nanak that the 10th Nanak had to go to a follower of Gorakh to learn virtues? Guru Nanak proved the path of yogis wrong as evidenced in ‘Sidh Gost’ written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Tria Chariter promoters say that those questioning Tria Chariters are questioning Guru and Gurbani. After reading this verse, it should clear on who is questioning Guru and Gurbani.
Chaupai
The servant relayed the message back to the king and woke him up at midnight. He took the king to the yogi’s house. Upon seeing the king, the yogi felt great pleasure. 12.
Investigation: Who cares if the yogi felt pleasure or not. What does it have to do with Gurmat?
Dohra
Yogi asked the king to send all the people away from the site and call for sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 13.
The king did as asked and told the people to go away. He also received the sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 14.
Then the king sent all of his people away and stayed there pleasurably to learn the mantar. 15.
Investigation: What does liquor have to do with virtues and what do others items have to do with learning virtues? Items such as wick lamps, sandalwood, rice, flowers, etc. are used in learning mantars (magic spells) and not when learning virtues. Therefore, it should be clear that the mantars here mean magic spells which are against fundamentals of Gurmat. Once again the writer tries to make Guru Gobind Singh Ji look like a person who doesn’t know much about his surroundings. This is a direct attack on Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chaupai
When the king was alone, the yogi said that I will show you magic now and will teach you the mantar later. 16.
Investigation: Gurmat also doesn’t accept showing off of magic powers. Once again, the writer fails to mention that this is against Gurmat.
Dohra
From male, I will become a female, and then I will become a male again. Being a male, I will teach you mantar and being a female, I will have sex with you. 17.
Investigation: There should be no confusion here as this is not magic but a fraud. There is nothing special in looking like a woman and then looking like a man. Only a confused person would want to look like the opposite gender. Example, those who shave hair are usually confused as they want to cut hair and look more like females than males.
King Said:
The male who gives mantar is like a father and woman who gives mantar is like a mother. They are to be served and are not be had sexual intercourse with. 18.
Investigation: These statements which seem like the writer is promoting Gurmat are just sugar-coating on poison. Don’t be fooled by these.
Arill
Guru has to be served for mamy years and then after trying hard, the mantar has to be received. Therefore, it is proper to bow to Guru. Hey witty! Then tell me why should sex be had with him/her? 19.
Investigation: So suddenly the yogi becomes Guru of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Where are the brains of promoters of this slandering of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Do these people have mental problems? Is their mission to promote these yogis or other anti-Gurmat paths as better than the path of Guru Nanak? Who are the real slanderers of Guru? Promoters of such stories or the ones who oppose these?
Chaupai
Then the yogi said that I performed his clever act to meet you. Now have sex with me my beloved. Now get on my bed. 20.
Investigation: Did the woman think that Guru Sahib was so easily going to get on her bed and have sex with her?
Dohra
My body has been thirsting to meet you and my body parts have become weak. Hey beloved! Come and accommodate yourself on my bed and make love with me today. 21.
If you try to run away then I will get you caught as a thief and if you let me go, I will speak foul to you. Otherwise, have sex with me without a thought. 22.
When a woman, filled with lust, comes to the one who she loves and if the loved one lets her go without fulfilling her desire, that person shall be thrown in deep hell. 23.
If a woman’s body is filled with lust but a man refuses to fulfill her desires, he should be thrown into the deep pit of hell. 24.
Investigation: So people of Anandpur had the character of Guru Sahib in question that they would believe a prostitute and accept Guru Ji as a thief? Guru Ji wasn’t like a lot of the Gurudwara committee members or granthis who steal money from Gurudwaras. Did the prostitute seriously think that her threats and tactics were going to work? What are the threats of being thrown in hell to Guru? Even Sikhs don’t care about hell or heaven so then why would Guru believe in it? Gurmat rejects the hells and heavens after death. Writer again fails to preach Gurmat and keeps promoting Sikhs and their Guru as followers of Hindu philosophy.
Arill
Creator has given me birth in the house of a prostitute. I took the appearance of a Yogi to meet you. Now quickly place yourself on my bed. I will live as your slave. Don’t make me more anxious. 25.
Investigation: So is it Guru’s fault that she is born in a prostitute’s house? She didn’t have to be a prostitute. What is the purpose of writing that the appearance of yogi was only taken to meet the king? Also Guru Sahib didn’t look for slaves. Guru Sahib freed the people from slavery; not made them slaves.
Dohra
So what if you are smart and are young adult. I have been pierced by separation from you so don’t leave my desire unfilled. 26.
Investigation: It looks like the woman is lecturing Guru on what to do rather than Guru Sahib lecturing her on what is right and what is wrong.
Arill
Don’t waste the time anymore. I am under control of lust. I am drowned in lust up to my head. Don’t let me off with sexual intercourse and don’t have ego due to my desire like black clouded night. 27.
People come to you from all over the places and receive the boons which they wish for. What wrong have I done that I can not have you? I will be the slave of your slaves. Proceed to my bed. 28.
The king said that he came to learn mantars and that she played this act. Why should I have sexual intercourse with you? I am really scared of falling from my faith. 29.
Investigation: Then the prostitute accuses Guru Sahib of having ego because he didn’t agree to her wishes according to the story. Is it ego to keep moral code of conduct and refuse to participate it morally corrupt acts? So Guru Sahib refused to have sex because of fear of falling from faith and nothing to do with morals and shame? If Guru Sahib wasn’t the Guru of Sikhs, he would have agreed to the prostitute and participated in sexual activity? How low are the Tria Chariter promoters going to fall morally? Don’t these people fear God when they slander Guru by linking such garbage to Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
That woman tried persuasion through many ways. She tried many opinions and persuasions. She tried many jantars and mantars. However, she could not persuade the king into her hands. 30.
Investigation: Mantars don’t work on Gursikhs so forget about trying them on Guru. Shows the lack of knowledge the writer has.
Arill
She went into the veranda and started shouting “thief” “thief”. She tried to scare the king to meet him. She came back to him and said to listen to her. She said that the king can either have sex with her or she will get him tied up. 31.
Hearing “thief” “thief”, people came to the location. Woman told the people that she started talking while in her sleep. When the people were gone, she held the hand of the king. She told the king to have sexual intercourse with or her face being tied up. 32.
Investigation: It says the king’s hand was held by her. Didn’t the king snap his hand away from her? Guru Sahib didn’t mind prostitutes holding his hand? Isn’t this an attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Dohra
Then the king thought in his mind that the concept of mantars is to put on an act and run away. 33.
If I run, I lose honor. If I have sexual intercourse, I fall from religion. Due to both of these issues, the situation has become very hard to handle. May God protect me now. 34.
Then king thought that if a son is born, he will become a pimp and if a daughter is born, she will be a prostitute. By having sexual intercourse, religion is lost and by running, I will be tied up. 35.
Investigation: Does the verse talking about having pimp or prostitute as child according to Gurmat? Does this mean Guru Sahib would have fulfilled her wish had it not been the fear of child being born as prostitute or pimp? Is this not a direct attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
King said, “hey beloved! Listen to me. I was just checking you devotion towards me. Whoever finds a beautiful woman like you and lets her go, is a big imbecile. 36.
Investigation: The woman keeps calling Guru Sahib as beloved in a *******ed way and Guru Sahib doesn’t say a word to stop her? How low the chariter promoters going to go to link this garbage to Guru Sahib? Would Guru Sahib ever say that the one who lets go of a beautiful woman is an idiot? When are these enemies of Guru and Guru’s Panth going to stop attacking Guru and Gurmat?
Dohra
If a beautiful woman like you is received, anyone who thinks about forsaking her, his having birth is shameful. 37.
Get a large amount of poppy husk, cannabis, and opium quickly. Being happy from the heart, feed me cannabis. 38.
You drink a lot of liquor and feed me cannabis. I will have sexual intercourse with you for 12 hours. 39.
Investigation: So all those who follow Gurmat had no point in being born? Is this not a direct attack on Gurmat? Is this what the naked legs ones read and promote as Gurmat? Would Guru Sahib ever order drugs? Would Guru Sahib ever tell a woman who doesn’t belong to him that he would have sex with her for 12 hours? Are these stories the reasons why they are often caught in sex scandals or rapes? Can these people ever be considered Sikhs? According to the rehat maryada, they can not be. This is the reason why they reject the rehat maryada and make their own maraydas. Who are the real enemies of Guru? Those who promote garbage like this or the ones who oppose it?
Chaupai
Without knowing, she became joyful after listening to these words. She could not tell between fact and falseness. Being really happy in the heart, she ordered the drugs the king had ordered. 40.
Investigation: The writer seems to have a grudge against women. Maybe his wife ran away or performed one the tricks on someone else. What is so great about fooling women? Is this Gurmat?
Dohra
Poppy husk, cannabis, opium and deep grinded cannabis and liquor prepared seven times were brought. 41.
Investigation: Isn’t this verse promoting drugs? Not once have drugs been denounced in the chariter. Would Guru Sahib not say how bad drugs are? Shows that this isn’t work of Guru Sahib.
Arill
Then the king thought in the mind. Today I will not have sex with her. This is the wisdom from the mantar. I will make her really high on drugs and lie her down on the bed and will run away saving my religion. I will give her 60 coins before going. 42.
Investigation: What did the king mean by not today? King was planning to indulge in sexual activity some other time? What were the 60 coins going to be given for? Was the prostitute a great preacher of Gurmat? Did she invent a special device to help people succeed in day to day activities? Does it mean it is good to give prostitutes money and make them happy? How low are the Panth enemies going to go to promote this garbage? Can these people ever be called Sikhs?
Dohra
She does not understand love. She only cares about money. Are scorpions, snakes and prostitutes ever friends of anyone? 43.
Increasing pleasure, the king made her drink a lot of liquor and to run away, he made her lofty and got her to sleep on the bed. 44.
The king fed her liquor with his own hands and through this act, drugged her up and made her sleep on the bed. 45.
Investigation: So Guru Sahib filled glasses of liquor with his own hands and got her to drink it with his own hands? Can anyone ever think of Guru Sahib filling glasses of liquor and putting them to the mouth of a woman? Is this Gurmat?
Arill
King filled glasses and fed her with his hands. He showed a lot of love towards the prostitute. When she got high and went to sleep, the king placed 60 coins there and ran away. 46.
If a woman loves you, do not love her. If she becomes intoxicated in you sweetness, do not ruin yourself in her sweetness. If you can not understand the feelings of a woman, make sure she doesn’t know the thought of your heart. 47.
Investigation: Why are the same lines being repeated again and again? It seems like the writer was also under influence of drugs while composing this garbage. When he says not to love woman, which woman is he talking about? Does it include the wife? Is it doesn’t then why isn’t it made clear? If it does include the wife, then how can 2 bodies function as one if there is no trust? Is this Gurmat philosophy?
Dohra
Making the woman unconscious (with drugs) and giving her 60 coins, the king ran away. He reached home and no one saw him coming. 48.
Investigation: So the king did indeed run away? If no one saw him coming home, then how did the writer know? The writer is none other than poet Raam. Is poet Raam the Guru of these chariter promoters? Those who do accept that these are writings of poets and say these are accepted writings, do they even know what Gurmat is? Also, who accepted these writings? Is mahant narainu and company or is it is children of narainu (also known as modern mahants)? So if someone wanted to make money, just act as a prostitute and try to lure Guru of Sikhs. Those who sell their souls to RSS are no better than prostitutes like Shujeeya.
Arill
Then the king came home and made a vow that he saved his faith this time with some good tricks. He vowed that he would now spread the greatness of his God throughout many countries and states. He also vowed not to look at other women. 49.
Investigation: Does this verse mean Guru Sahib wasn’t telling people about God or spreading greatness of God before? Does this mean Guru Sahib used to check out women before this incidence? How low are the chariter promoters going to get? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left?
Dohra
The lesson from that day is in my heart. Since that day, I have not been looking at other women. 50.
Investigation: Once again, does this mean Guru Sahib used to look at women in a sexual way before this incidence? How low are the promoters of such garbage going to go? D they fear God or Guru? Do they have no shame insulting Guru who sacrificed everything for them? Do they have no shame defaming the Guru, due to whom they have huge bellies and make a living? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left? Will anyone take action? If you care and love Guru, then spread this article to everyone you know. Otherwise, you can join the chariter promoters and become an enemy of Guru. So it is up to you to decide on which side to take. Which one will you take? Will you spread this article to everyone you know who claims to be a Sikh?

Some lines such as “sandalwood, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor was brought” are repeated again and again. This shows that the writer wasn’t in the right state of mind when writing these chariters. This turns out to be more of a male chariter rather than a female chariter. Also, not to forget, in the end, the prostitute wins as her motive to collect money was also fulfilled. This is a direct attack towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No Sikh of Guru Nanak will tolerate this and can never accept this litter as Gurbani.

Chariter 16 translation and analysis completed!

Please kindly forgive any mistakes and provide any suggestions.

Harmanjit Singh
mannharm66@hotmail.com
 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0
GuruFateh

Ya its true, that SGGS is singing the praises of SATNAM
but it also says that SATNAM is not SATNAM but SATNAM is unspoken(AJAPA) word
ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਘਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਇ ਦੇਇ ਸੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ
घर महि घरु देखाइ देइ सो सतिगुरु पुरखु सुजाणु ॥
ghar meh ghar daykhaa-ay day-ay so satgur purakh sujaan.
The True Guru is the All-knowing Primal Being; He shows us our true home within the home of the self.

ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਧੁਨਿਕਾਰ ਧੁਨਿ ਤਹ ਬਾਜੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ
पंच सबद धुनिकार धुनि तह बाजै सबदु नीसाणु ॥
panch sabad Dhunikaar Dhun tah baajai sabad neesaan.
The Panch Shabad, the Five Primal Sounds, resonate and resound within; the insignia of the Shabad is revealed there, vibrating gloriously.

ਦੀਪ ਲੋਅ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਤਹ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਹੈਰਾਨੁ
दीप लोअ पाताल तह खंड मंडल हैरानु ॥
deep lo-a paataal tah khand mandal hairaan.
Worlds and realms, nether regions, solar systems and galaxies are wondrously revealed.

ਤਾਰ ਘੋਰ ਬਾਜਿੰਤ੍ਰ ਤਹ ਸਾਚਿ ਤਖਤਿ ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ
तार घोर बाजिंत्र तह साचि तखति सुलतानु ॥
taar ghor baajintar tah saach takhat sultaan.
The strings and the harps vibrate and resound; the true throne of the Lord is there.

ਸੁਖਮਨ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਰਾਗੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ
सुखमन कै घरि रागु सुनि सुंनि मंडलि लिव लाइ ॥
sukhman kai ghar raag sun sunn mandal liv laa-ay.
Listen to the music of the home of the heart - Sukhmani, peace of mind. Lovingly tune in to His state of celestial ecstasy.

ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਬੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ
अकथ कथा बीचारीऐ मनसा मनहि समाइ ॥
akath kathaa beechaaree-ai mansaa maneh samaa-ay.
Contemplate the Unspoken Speech, and the desires of the mind are dissolved.

ਉਲਟਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਭਰਿਆ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਕਤਹੁ ਜਾਇ
उलटि कमलु अम्रिति भरिआ इहु मनु कतहु न जाइ ॥
ulat kamal amrit bhari-aa ih man katahu na jaa-ay.
The heart-lotus is turned upside-down, and is filled with Ambrosial Nectar. This mind does not go out; it does not get distracted.

ਅਜਪਾ ਜਾਪੁ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ
अजपा जापु न वीसरै आदि जुगादि समाइ ॥
ajpaa jaap na veesrai aad jugaad samaa-ay.
It does not forget the Chant which is chanted without chanting; it is immersed in the Primal Lord God of the ages.

ਸਭਿ ਸਖੀਆ ਪੰਚੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ
सभि सखीआ पंचे मिले गुरमुखि निज घरि वासु ॥
sabh sakhee-aa panchay milay gurmukh nij ghar vaas.
All the sister-companions are blessed with the five virtues. The Gurmukhs dwell in the home of the self deep within.

ਸਬਦੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਇਹੁ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
सबदु खोजि इहु घरु लहै नानकु ता का दासु ॥१॥
sabad khoj ih ghar lahai naanak taa kaa daas. ||1||
Nanak is the slave of that one who seeks the Shabad and finds this home within. ||1||

Please read the meaning of the lines
clearly stating that the master , guru is that who can show u the GOD within u
and ORANGE highlighted in b/w is clearly stating that NAAM is AJAPA
SATNAM is AJAPA

SVJKK SVJKF
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Side Note: We must know that the writer when referring to the king near Satluj river, is directing the talk towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is further made clear when it says that followers from all over the places came and received boons. Not only that, it also talks about the king being young and a religious leader. There should be no doubt that it is directed towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chariter 16
Dohra
Near the Satluj River, a king lived happily. A prostitute arrived in the city to make money. 1.
Investigation: Anandpur was newly established and was under control of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Sikhs mostly lived there so it is hard to believe that a prostitute would have customers in Anandpur Sahib. Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Arill
Everyone knew her as Shujeeya but her lovers referred to her as Ludeeya. Every man who saw her, became attracted to her and received pleasure in the heart. 2.
Investigation: Who were her lovers? Were they Sikhs? The writer fails to make it clear. Did the Sikhs also become attracted to her and visited her? Is this not an attack on character of Sikhs?
Dohra
She was attracted towards the king but she could not convince him. She thought about ideas to meet the king. 3.
(She thought) He doesn’t for love me so what should be done? He doesn’t come to my house and neither does he call me to his house). 4.
Some way has to be found to meet him fast. She thought that maybe he could be won over through jantars and mantars. 5.
She was exhausted trying jantars and mnatars but he king didn’t visit her. Then she plotted a ploy to allure the king. 6.
She dressed in orange clothing which the Yogis wear and bowed to the king when entering the king’s court. 7.
Investigation: Did the prostitute not know where she was going? Did she think that the Guru would fall for her? Is this not an attack on Guru Sahib? Is this not questioning the character of Guru Sahib? Then the writer says that she tries jantars and mantars. Maybe the writer didn’t know but Gurmat doesn’t agree to performing mantars. It is strictly against Gurmat. The writer again fails to mention that mantars are against Gurmat. Also Guru Ji was so unaware that he could not tell the difference between a woman dressed as a yogi and a man dressed as a yogi? Is this not an attack on the greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
Arill
Seeing the Yogi, the king was impressed internally and thought about receiving some mantars from the yogi. King called a messenger, told him what to say and sent him to the Yogi (prostitute) so he the king could learn the skill of mantars. 8.
Investigation: Once again, the writer makes Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a king searching for mantars. Someone could say that the mantars here don’t mean the magic spells but it means consultation or virtues. Even if that point is accepted, it still doesn’t make it correct as there is no reason to learn virtues from a yogi or have consultation with yogis on Panthic or even personal matters. Guru is the one who teaches others, not the other way around. However, the mantars here mean magic spells. This will be proven later in the chariter. Is this not slandering Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Could someone promoting this garbage be considered a Sikh of Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Is there any shame left?
Chaupai
King’s servant went to the Yogi. Whatever the king had said, the servant repeated to the Yogi. Servant asked the Yogi to give some mantars to the king and to please complete this task for his boss (king). 9.
Investigation: So Guru was sending his servants to make appointments to learn mantars from yogis? Why was Guru Sahib so desperate to learn mantars when they are not even as per Gurmat? Guru Sahib said something and did something?
Dohra
The yogi opened his/her eyes after 3 hours and told the servant to bring the king to her/his house if the king wanted to learn virtues. 10.
Bring him to me at midnight. With Gorakh’s blessing, the king will not go back empty handed. 11.
Investigation: Why did the yogi have her/his eyes closed for 3 hours? Closing eyes is also against Gurmat. Gurbani calls it hypocrisy and the writer again fails to mention this. The writer then says with Gorakh’s blessings; here Gorakh means Gorakh Naath the yogi. Gurmat only says to worship Akaal and look for help from Akaal. Not some deities or humans or saints, no matter how great they are. This is evidenced in the concept of ‘Pooja Akaal Kee’ meaning worship of God. God is worshipped by following Gurbani. Gorakh Naath was the founder of the yogi sect of Hinduism. Was Gorakh Nath greater than Guru Nanak that the 10th Nanak had to go to a follower of Gorakh to learn virtues? Guru Nanak proved the path of yogis wrong as evidenced in ‘Sidh Gost’ written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Tria Chariter promoters say that those questioning Tria Chariters are questioning Guru and Gurbani. After reading this verse, it should clear on who is questioning Guru and Gurbani.
Chaupai
The servant relayed the message back to the king and woke him up at midnight. He took the king to the yogi’s house. Upon seeing the king, the yogi felt great pleasure. 12.
Investigation: Who cares if the yogi felt pleasure or not. What does it have to do with Gurmat?
Dohra
Yogi asked the king to send all the people away from the site and call for sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 13.
The king did as asked and told the people to go away. He also received the sandalwood sticks, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor. 14.
Then the king sent all of his people away and stayed there pleasurably to learn the mantar. 15.
Investigation: What does liquor have to do with virtues and what do others items have to do with learning virtues? Items such as wick lamps, sandalwood, rice, flowers, etc. are used in learning mantars (magic spells) and not when learning virtues. Therefore, it should be clear that the mantars here mean magic spells which are against fundamentals of Gurmat. Once again the writer tries to make Guru Gobind Singh Ji look like a person who doesn’t know much about his surroundings. This is a direct attack on Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Chaupai
When the king was alone, the yogi said that I will show you magic now and will teach you the mantar later. 16.
Investigation: Gurmat also doesn’t accept showing off of magic powers. Once again, the writer fails to mention that this is against Gurmat.
Dohra
From male, I will become a female, and then I will become a male again. Being a male, I will teach you mantar and being a female, I will have sex with you. 17.
Investigation: There should be no confusion here as this is not magic but a fraud. There is nothing special in looking like a woman and then looking like a man. Only a confused person would want to look like the opposite gender. Example, those who shave hair are usually confused as they want to cut hair and look more like females than males.
King Said:
The male who gives mantar is like a father and woman who gives mantar is like a mother. They are to be served and are not be had sexual intercourse with. 18.
Investigation: These statements which seem like the writer is promoting Gurmat are just sugar-coating on poison. Don’t be fooled by these.
Arill
Guru has to be served for mamy years and then after trying hard, the mantar has to be received. Therefore, it is proper to bow to Guru. Hey witty! Then tell me why should sex be had with him/her? 19.
Investigation: So suddenly the yogi becomes Guru of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Where are the brains of promoters of this slandering of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Do these people have mental problems? Is their mission to promote these yogis or other anti-Gurmat paths as better than the path of Guru Nanak? Who are the real slanderers of Guru? Promoters of such stories or the ones who oppose these?
Chaupai
Then the yogi said that I performed his clever act to meet you. Now have sex with me my beloved. Now get on my bed. 20.
Investigation: Did the woman think that Guru Sahib was so easily going to get on her bed and have sex with her?
Dohra
My body has been thirsting to meet you and my body parts have become weak. Hey beloved! Come and accommodate yourself on my bed and make love with me today. 21.
If you try to run away then I will get you caught as a thief and if you let me go, I will speak foul to you. Otherwise, have sex with me without a thought. 22.
When a woman, filled with lust, comes to the one who she loves and if the loved one lets her go without fulfilling her desire, that person shall be thrown in deep hell. 23.
If a woman’s body is filled with lust but a man refuses to fulfill her desires, he should be thrown into the deep pit of hell. 24.
Investigation: So people of Anandpur had the character of Guru Sahib in question that they would believe a prostitute and accept Guru Ji as a thief? Guru Ji wasn’t like a lot of the Gurudwara committee members or granthis who steal money from Gurudwaras. Did the prostitute seriously think that her threats and tactics were going to work? What are the threats of being thrown in hell to Guru? Even Sikhs don’t care about hell or heaven so then why would Guru believe in it? Gurmat rejects the hells and heavens after death. Writer again fails to preach Gurmat and keeps promoting Sikhs and their Guru as followers of Hindu philosophy.
Arill
Creator has given me birth in the house of a prostitute. I took the appearance of a Yogi to meet you. Now quickly place yourself on my bed. I will live as your slave. Don’t make me more anxious. 25.
Investigation: So is it Guru’s fault that she is born in a prostitute’s house? She didn’t have to be a prostitute. What is the purpose of writing that the appearance of yogi was only taken to meet the king? Also Guru Sahib didn’t look for slaves. Guru Sahib freed the people from slavery; not made them slaves.
Dohra
So what if you are smart and are young adult. I have been pierced by separation from you so don’t leave my desire unfilled. 26.
Investigation: It looks like the woman is lecturing Guru on what to do rather than Guru Sahib lecturing her on what is right and what is wrong.
Arill
Don’t waste the time anymore. I am under control of lust. I am drowned in lust up to my head. Don’t let me off with sexual intercourse and don’t have ego due to my desire like black clouded night. 27.
People come to you from all over the places and receive the boons which they wish for. What wrong have I done that I can not have you? I will be the slave of your slaves. Proceed to my bed. 28.
The king said that he came to learn mantars and that she played this act. Why should I have sexual intercourse with you? I am really scared of falling from my faith. 29.
Investigation: Then the prostitute accuses Guru Sahib of having ego because he didn’t agree to her wishes according to the story. Is it ego to keep moral code of conduct and refuse to participate it morally corrupt acts? So Guru Sahib refused to have sex because of fear of falling from faith and nothing to do with morals and shame? If Guru Sahib wasn’t the Guru of Sikhs, he would have agreed to the prostitute and participated in sexual activity? How low are the Tria Chariter promoters going to fall morally? Don’t these people fear God when they slander Guru by linking such garbage to Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
That woman tried persuasion through many ways. She tried many opinions and persuasions. She tried many jantars and mantars. However, she could not persuade the king into her hands. 30.
Investigation: Mantars don’t work on Gursikhs so forget about trying them on Guru. Shows the lack of knowledge the writer has.
Arill
She went into the veranda and started shouting “thief” “thief”. She tried to scare the king to meet him. She came back to him and said to listen to her. She said that the king can either have sex with her or she will get him tied up. 31.
Hearing “thief” “thief”, people came to the location. Woman told the people that she started talking while in her sleep. When the people were gone, she held the hand of the king. She told the king to have sexual intercourse with or her face being tied up. 32.
Investigation: It says the king’s hand was held by her. Didn’t the king snap his hand away from her? Guru Sahib didn’t mind prostitutes holding his hand? Isn’t this an attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Dohra
Then the king thought in his mind that the concept of mantars is to put on an act and run away. 33.
If I run, I lose honor. If I have sexual intercourse, I fall from religion. Due to both of these issues, the situation has become very hard to handle. May God protect me now. 34.
Then king thought that if a son is born, he will become a pimp and if a daughter is born, she will be a prostitute. By having sexual intercourse, religion is lost and by running, I will be tied up. 35.
Investigation: Does the verse talking about having pimp or prostitute as child according to Gurmat? Does this mean Guru Sahib would have fulfilled her wish had it not been the fear of child being born as prostitute or pimp? Is this not a direct attack on character of Guru Sahib?
Chaupai
King said, “hey beloved! Listen to me. I was just checking you devotion towards me. Whoever finds a beautiful woman like you and lets her go, is a big imbecile. 36.
Investigation: The woman keeps calling Guru Sahib as beloved in a *******ed way and Guru Sahib doesn’t say a word to stop her? How low the chariter promoters going to go to link this garbage to Guru Sahib? Would Guru Sahib ever say that the one who lets go of a beautiful woman is an idiot? When are these enemies of Guru and Guru’s Panth going to stop attacking Guru and Gurmat?
Dohra
If a beautiful woman like you is received, anyone who thinks about forsaking her, his having birth is shameful. 37.
Get a large amount of poppy husk, cannabis, and opium quickly. Being happy from the heart, feed me cannabis. 38.
You drink a lot of liquor and feed me cannabis. I will have sexual intercourse with you for 12 hours. 39.
Investigation: So all those who follow Gurmat had no point in being born? Is this not a direct attack on Gurmat? Is this what the naked legs ones read and promote as Gurmat? Would Guru Sahib ever order drugs? Would Guru Sahib ever tell a woman who doesn’t belong to him that he would have sex with her for 12 hours? Are these stories the reasons why they are often caught in sex scandals or rapes? Can these people ever be considered Sikhs? According to the rehat maryada, they can not be. This is the reason why they reject the rehat maryada and make their own maraydas. Who are the real enemies of Guru? Those who promote garbage like this or the ones who oppose it?
Chaupai
Without knowing, she became joyful after listening to these words. She could not tell between fact and falseness. Being really happy in the heart, she ordered the drugs the king had ordered. 40.
Investigation: The writer seems to have a grudge against women. Maybe his wife ran away or performed one the tricks on someone else. What is so great about fooling women? Is this Gurmat?
Dohra
Poppy husk, cannabis, opium and deep grinded cannabis and liquor prepared seven times were brought. 41.
Investigation: Isn’t this verse promoting drugs? Not once have drugs been denounced in the chariter. Would Guru Sahib not say how bad drugs are? Shows that this isn’t work of Guru Sahib.
Arill
Then the king thought in the mind. Today I will not have sex with her. This is the wisdom from the mantar. I will make her really high on drugs and lie her down on the bed and will run away saving my religion. I will give her 60 coins before going. 42.
Investigation: What did the king mean by not today? King was planning to indulge in sexual activity some other time? What were the 60 coins going to be given for? Was the prostitute a great preacher of Gurmat? Did she invent a special device to help people succeed in day to day activities? Does it mean it is good to give prostitutes money and make them happy? How low are the Panth enemies going to go to promote this garbage? Can these people ever be called Sikhs?
Dohra
She does not understand love. She only cares about money. Are scorpions, snakes and prostitutes ever friends of anyone? 43.
Increasing pleasure, the king made her drink a lot of liquor and to run away, he made her lofty and got her to sleep on the bed. 44.
The king fed her liquor with his own hands and through this act, drugged her up and made her sleep on the bed. 45.
Investigation: So Guru Sahib filled glasses of liquor with his own hands and got her to drink it with his own hands? Can anyone ever think of Guru Sahib filling glasses of liquor and putting them to the mouth of a woman? Is this Gurmat?
Arill
King filled glasses and fed her with his hands. He showed a lot of love towards the prostitute. When she got high and went to sleep, the king placed 60 coins there and ran away. 46.
If a woman loves you, do not love her. If she becomes intoxicated in you sweetness, do not ruin yourself in her sweetness. If you can not understand the feelings of a woman, make sure she doesn’t know the thought of your heart. 47.
Investigation: Why are the same lines being repeated again and again? It seems like the writer was also under influence of drugs while composing this garbage. When he says not to love woman, which woman is he talking about? Does it include the wife? Is it doesn’t then why isn’t it made clear? If it does include the wife, then how can 2 bodies function as one if there is no trust? Is this Gurmat philosophy?
Dohra
Making the woman unconscious (with drugs) and giving her 60 coins, the king ran away. He reached home and no one saw him coming. 48.
Investigation: So the king did indeed run away? If no one saw him coming home, then how did the writer know? The writer is none other than poet Raam. Is poet Raam the Guru of these chariter promoters? Those who do accept that these are writings of poets and say these are accepted writings, do they even know what Gurmat is? Also, who accepted these writings? Is mahant narainu and company or is it is children of narainu (also known as modern mahants)? So if someone wanted to make money, just act as a prostitute and try to lure Guru of Sikhs. Those who sell their souls to RSS are no better than prostitutes like Shujeeya.
Arill
Then the king came home and made a vow that he saved his faith this time with some good tricks. He vowed that he would now spread the greatness of his God throughout many countries and states. He also vowed not to look at other women. 49.
Investigation: Does this verse mean Guru Sahib wasn’t telling people about God or spreading greatness of God before? Does this mean Guru Sahib used to check out women before this incidence? How low are the chariter promoters going to get? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left?
Dohra
The lesson from that day is in my heart. Since that day, I have not been looking at other women. 50.
Investigation: Once again, does this mean Guru Sahib used to look at women in a sexual way before this incidence? How low are the promoters of such garbage going to go? D they fear God or Guru? Do they have no shame insulting Guru who sacrificed everything for them? Do they have no shame defaming the Guru, due to whom they have huge bellies and make a living? How far will they go to ruin the image of great Guru Sahib? Is there no shame or religious conduct left? Will anyone take action? If you care and love Guru, then spread this article to everyone you know. Otherwise, you can join the chariter promoters and become an enemy of Guru. So it is up to you to decide on which side to take. Which one will you take? Will you spread this article to everyone you know who claims to be a Sikh?

Some lines such as “sandalwood, wick lamp, rice, flowers and good liquor was brought” are repeated again and again. This shows that the writer wasn’t in the right state of mind when writing these chariters. This turns out to be more of a male chariter rather than a female chariter. Also, not to forget, in the end, the prostitute wins as her motive to collect money was also fulfilled. This is a direct attack towards Guru Gobind Singh Ji. No Sikh of Guru Nanak will tolerate this and can never accept this litter as Gurbani.

Chariter 16 translation and analysis completed!

Please kindly forgive any mistakes and provide any suggestions.


Harmanjit Singh

mannharm66@hotmail.com

das has given the things which tells tha where are you going wrong.

Read them again only first post is reposted. and rest read from above again.

Gurfateh

Das was bust with some offline work so was awy,Akal thanks God so that Das can reply Bhai TKF.

Anyway Das is first tryting to conclude his article.


Gurfateh
So das first takes Into account of 5 things in
Character 16 which some can say look similar to that of Guru.It is strange that our brothers with some racial Punjabi jattism tend to forget that Charectors are not eroticas.
So das will take care of first point
1.the first line.​
One bankof/near Satiluj,Happened to be a lord,living(and) having comforts.
For the wealth one Ramjani came to his place.1.
His place use to have wealth and one ramjani came there.1
For wealth one Ramjani came to that place.1.​
There are three interpretations of the second line and last one is remotest.Das reads hote(happened to be/use to be) and not Het(for) in version which das has.Maybe Translitration from Gurmukhi to Nagri has caused this mistake.​

Das will touch both the cases.
But better is to take the remotest case first.​
For the purpose of Mony only Ramjani came to that place.(in other two cases place is termed wealthy or king is termed wealthy and coming Ramjani is written.It is still not written that Ramjani came to place to have mony) .But if it is het,then she came to his place or that ploace to get wealth.​
Ramjani litraly means been born by God or delivered by God.As prostitutes may not know who there father is(if born from mother in same profession) so God only is her father.
Das looked if there could be some farsi conection as ram is used in farsi like Ramsar(a place on the bank of Caspian sea)Ramjanga(gun) but Jani may not have meaning as far as das is interested.Term zan is used for lady.​
So can the bank of Satiluj be Anandpur Sahib only?​
Answer is no.​
Satluj is river older then Himlayas and is trans himlayan river.It strats from tibbet ,moves into India wide Himachal(making U shaped valley in Himalaya) then enters Punjab plains and then enter Pakistan and further ahead making way for Indus.It moves more then 400 kilometers.(das can write whole geological story about relation Satluj had with Euraisa and Gandvanaland but all such is beyond the scope of this text.When writer use to write such things in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji,then guys use to raise eybrow .When some one is blessed by Akal,the endless,the knowledge endless,then it is OK to not to put all info else point could be over shadowed.Das’s knowledge is anyway still not vey much)​
Say Bank of yamuna can be Paunta Sahib,Delhi,Mathura and up till Allahbad.Rai or lord is mentioned in first line but later on from 10,13,14 lines pair have term king also.And King is repeated again.​
There has been traditions in Hindus to have term rai added to them(Britshers use to tag their jackals as Rai Bahadur)Examples are Medini Rai(of Raisen,central India),Krishandev Raya,Achyut Raya(of Vijay Nagar,South India),Biji Rai(Last Hindu king of Sialkot).​
Muslims also held this title and das will give two on the either sides of Satluj.Rai Bular(in north west) and Rai Kala(in south),both have importance in Sikh history.
As we see from the case of Ranjha(Dido Queshi of Takhat Hazara),Muslim Rais also had interst in Yoga(as he become Yogi of Gorakhnath).Biji Rai also once became Muslim Nasha Shah but before defeat from Ghauri reverts to pagan faith.​
Also das would like to mention Naqshbandi,who are forefathers of present days wahabis. Their Shekh Ahmad was responsible for martyer dom of Fifth Master.They were at Sirhinds.They had whole system ini their language about various glands or Chakras as in yogis.In Pranayams nose is closed.Naqsh is nose and band is to close.​
We see that in 21st Charitar we are given under Eye peak and name Anandpur to exact location for the place.Same can be read at end of Ram Avtar,ie under the foot of eye peak,one the bank of Satiluj.​
But in last Charitar after date it is only mentioned that at the bank of Satiluj.In there also it may not mean that Guru write it at Anandpur Sahib,There also we should know that some other palce also clould be there on the bank of Satiluj where Guru eneded dialogue of Minster and Landowner/king .Guru did write at Paunta Sahib,He did write Jaffernama outside Anandpur Sahib and Sarbloh Granrth was all the more written after leaving Anandpur Sahib.​
There were many War which Guru faught with Hindu Kings,and while stalking them in hills or say near Kiratpur Sahib or otherwise also,why can not Guru also write outside Anandppur Sahib.Alexender use to write while on mission.Why can not Guru do this?​
 

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