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USA America A German Country?

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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Why is English the dominant language in a country where the largest ethnic percentage is German?

With a little bit of research we can find the answer to an interesting puzzle. To solve the puzzle one has to look into the history of German immigration to the British colonies before the Revolution, and to the economic and educational comparisons of German and English speakers before and after independence from Britain. :happykaur:
 

kds1980

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Apr 4, 2005
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Why is English the dominant language in a country where the largest ethnic percentage is German?

With a little bit of research we can find the answer to an interesting puzzle. To solve the puzzle one has to look into the history of German immigration to the British colonies before the Revolution, and to the economic and educational comparisons of German and English speakers before and after independence from Britain. :happykaur:
What was surprising for me is that USA was enemy of germany in both world wars.Infact somewhere i read that USA instructed its army not to marry inferior German women after world war 2 .On the other hand USA was always the ally of England .If Germans are/were in majority in USA then why there was no freindship between Germany and USA before second world war?
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Kanwardeep Singh ji

You question is based on 3 oversimplifications.

1. According to US Census 2000 the Chinese represent the largest ethnic group in the US at approximately 20 percent. Does this mean that Chinese Americans should partner politically with the Peoples' Republic of China?

2. 15 percent of a population does not represent a majority. The reference you gave shows German Americans to be 17.1 percent of white Americans (white being a racial category). Therefore their percentage is smaller for the total population of the US.

3. And.. I don't know who these "Germans" are you are talking about. First-generation-anything-immigrants are never a political majority and cannot vote until they become citizens. Therefore they cannot influence US policies including who to side with in times of war. :) Right?
There is no ethnic majority in the US, though Chinese represent a plurality. A majority requires more than 50 percent.

The history of German migration in the US goes back to the early 1600's. The individuals who followed, followed in the 1700's, 1800's, and 1900's. They settled in states on the Atlantic coast, predominately Pennsylvania and New Jersey. The migrated from there to the west and mid-west. States with heavy German-American populations in the early 1800's included Texas, California, Washington, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Ohio, and western New York state. Later migration was to places in the upper Mid-West like Michigan, various others.

By the time World War II broke out these people thought of themselves as German-Americans, and as such they felt a common bond with the principles of democracy. Democracy is something that Germany had a problem with historically, but now stands in the forefront as a champion of democratic principles.

In fact they, the immigrants, were leaving Germany first because of religious oppression (1600's and 1700's) and later (1800's) for economic opportunity. When they got here they must have found what they were looking for.

I don't want to tell the whole story of German immigration to the United States. Maybe it would take less time and effort if I were simply to be sarcastic and say something like. Well they were really imbeciles and should have banded together and rebelled against British influences, overthrown the US government, sided with Hitler, and today they would be in charge of the show. That would be hilarious wouldn't it?

But we really should be able to figure out that the Germans who immigrated here were really not coming from "Germany" at all. The Germans, like most European immigrants were coming from "pinds." They were coming from regions that were religiously and economically very different. They came from places like the Palatine, Saxony, Hanover. Their loyalty was not to a Germany which was then nothing more than the league of Hanseatic states.

We also should be able to figure out that Hitler was an obnoxious character. So why should German Americans align with him -- unless of course they were also part and parcel of his morbid and pathological agenda?

During World War II, some German Americans were sent to detainment camps, others went to war. Some German Americans worked to support U-boat incursions into US harbors, some died in naval battles at sea as part of the American navy. Some German Americans, in particular the German Catholic community, knew of Hitler's systematic extermination of the Jews, and asked Roosevelt to intervene before America entered World War II.

At that time Americans had no taste for war, were isolationists, had the view that Europe should dig itself out of its own mess. Once war broke out of course there were feelings of fear and concern -- of having to turn guns on Germans. In the end they did.

The question of why the US sided with England has to be answered on its own stock of historical facts.
 
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kds1980

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Apr 4, 2005
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According to US Census 2000 the Chinese represent the largest ethnic group in the US at approximately 20 percent. Does this mean that Chinese Americans should partner politically with the Peoples' Republic of China?
Surprised to read this .No where I read that that 20% chinese ethnic groups

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Americas/United-States-ETHNIC-GROUPS.html

2. 15 percent of a population does not represent a majority. The reference you gave shows German Americans to be 17.1 percent of white Americans (white being a racial category). Therefore their percentage is smaller for the total population of the US.
Actually when you sub divide a group 15% is a big majority.In India in any Hindu dominated state any caste that has population of 10-30% always give chief minister of that state
And.. I don't know who these "Germans" are you are talking about. First-generation-anything-immigrants are never a political majority and cannot vote until they become citizens. Therefore they cannot influence US policies including who to side with in times of war. Right?
There is no ethnic majority in the US, though Chinese represent a plurality. A majority requires more than 50 percent.
I am not talking about war.May be if USA had good relations with Germany then History could had been different.as far first gen second gen is concerned they may assimilate themselve into america but people always remember and have soft corner for their native country.Just to give you example When white farmers who may have been living in zimbabwe from 100-200 years were persecuted by Blacks then only UK come to their rescue because of their colonial past

As far about my assumption is concerned It is based on simple fact that USA and UK have
been very good friends for so long.I always thought that because large number of americans trace ancestory in UK and speak english that's why they are good friends
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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All interesting points Kanwardeep Singh ji

This is interesting in part because of differences in the way in which the constitutions work in India versus the US -- because the US does not have proportional representation for one thing.

Surprised to read this .No where I read that that 20% chinese ethnic groups

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Americas/United-States-ETHNIC-GROUPS.html

Yes - I checked the 2000 census and 20 percent was the figure. Chinese btw is considered Asian for race/ethcnicity and Chinese for country of origin. That would be the way that the categories are figured: race is combined with ethnicity, and country of origin is a subcategory. So for German Americans, race/ethnicity is White/European and German is country of origin.

Learning all the time ROFL. Anyway -- in this year's census the plurality will probably shift to a Hispanic category, but I am not sure.


Actually when you sub divide a group 15% is a big majority.In India in any Hindu dominated state any caste that has population of 10-30% always give chief minister of that state

I think that is because of the proportional representation, set asides, and SC and ST designations. We do not have something like that. The closest thing to that would be at the race/ethnicity level where you are looking at white/european, asian, asian/pacific islander, Hispanic (there are several race/ethnic groups in this category). 20 percent for Chinese would be 20 percent of the total US population, according to my source. Most living in Hawaii, California, and one other state that I cannot remember. So the Chinese are concentrated in 3 areas and their political influence is stronger in those areas because federal policies are implemented by senatorial districts.

German Americans, with a percentage of 17.1 percent, is not based on the total US pop, but a percentage of all white/europeans, making the percentage of the total population much smaller than 17.1 percent. I do recall that in the 1980 census, the median for all ancestry groups was German, with about 16.3 percent claiming German ancestry. But with immigration that has changed.


I am not talking about war.May be if USA had good relations with Germany then History could had been different.

You know the US at first did not declare war on Germany. The only reason we got involved at all was because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Hitler never expected to go to war with the US. Then he found himself having to side with Japan because of their treaty (and that had all to do with Russia).

as far first gen second gen is concerned they may assimilate themselve into america but people always remember and have soft corner for their native country.

People do have a soft corner for their country of origin. But it does not always translate into political loyalty. Italian-Americans historically loved the memory of the mother land, but had no desire to go back, because of the poverty and suffering they endured there. Only recently has that changed. The difference with the GA immigrant groups. I count 10 generations from the first wave. German immigration occurred over two hundred years. Each wave had a different reason to settle here. Descendants of the earlier waves had little but language in common with later waves. One thing I learned about the GA immigrants. They had the lowest tenancy rate of all other groups. From the 17th Century through the 19th, they bought land as soon as possible, usually in the first generation. Becoming land-owners early may have given them a strong bond/sense of ownership with the land where they had traveled.

Just to give you example When white farmers who may have been living in zimbabwe from 100-200 years were persecuted by Blacks then only UK come to their rescue because of their colonial past

LOL England did not come to the rescue of the US.

As far about my assumption is concerned It is based on simple fact that USA and UK have
been very good friends for so long.I always thought that because large number of americans trace ancestory in UK


This point is also interesting. According to census sources, the largest white/ancestry group in the US in several previous census years was Scotch/irish. And there is no love lost by Irish Americans for the English. Hot topic! Until things settled in Northern Ireland a few years back, there were Irish American communities organizing in churches OMG to support their countrymen.

and speak english that's why they are good friends

The friendship baffles me. Not that I am against it. Before World War I there was still continuing animosity bordering on hatred between the 2 countries, that is how long the resentments of the Revolutionary War continued. Now WE LOVE ENGLAND. Some of us wish we had a queen!
 

kds1980

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Apr 4, 2005
4,502
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Yes - I checked the 2000 census and 20 percent was the figure. Chinese btw is considered Asian for race/ethcnicity and Chinese for country of origin. That would be the way that the categories are figured: race is combined with ethnicity, and country of origin is a subcategory. So for German Americans, race/ethnicity is White/European and German is country of origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American
The Chinese American community is the largest ethnic group of Asian Americans, comprising of 22.4% of the Asian American population. They constitute 1.2% of the United States as a whole. In 2006, the Chinese American population numbered approximately 3.6 million.[2]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Narayanjot ji

Chinese Americans are 20% of all Asian American population not the entire population

German Americans, with a percentage of 17.1 percent, is not based on the total US pop, but a percentage of all white/europeans, making the percentage of the total population much smaller than 17.1 percent. I do recall that in the 1980 census, the median for all ancestry groups was German, with about 16.3 percent claiming German ancestry. But with immigration that has changed.
Well according to wiki they are total of all while chinese are barely 0.9%

You know the US at first did not declare war on Germany. The only reason we got involved at all was because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Hitler never expected to go to war with the US. Then he found himself having to side with Japan because of their treaty (and that had all to do with Russia).
I am not talking about second world war as That was already too late.But the circumstances that pushed Germany into Nazism.Even if their was no Hitler then Germany could had been pushed to communism and could had made deadly alliance with soviet.

My simple point is that if USA could had made good relations with Germany prior to Hitler
then there was big possibility that there could had been never a second world war
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,208
Kanwardeep Singh ji

Thanks for double checking on the numbers but I was not using Wikipedia for my source. So I will need to double back and check again. I was using the 2000 Census data from the .gov site.

Added. You are correct. The percentage for Chinese was based on a total of Asian race/ethnicity not the total population. I found this clarification: "Hispanics in 2003 made up the largest minority group in the United States. Although Mexicans in the 21st century were still concentrated in the Southwest, they have settled throughout the United States; Mexico was the largest source country for immigration in 2002."

There may have never been a war between Germany and the US, but there would have been a war with Hitler because Europe was already at war when the US entered, and Russia was also part of the conflict.

Question: Would it have been worth it for the US to sit back, and possibly have the result of allowing Hitler to prevail? When you consider who he was and what he believed, not to mention how he took power and how he kept it, would it be worthwhile? He loved Germany so much he destroyed it from within. The allies took care of the rest.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,208
Kanwardeep Singh ji

I found this web site which you will probably enjoy reading.

http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/geo/courses/geo200/usa_maps.html

The percentages of racial/ethnic and ancestry groups is hardly ever used based on the US at large but at the regional and state level.

I have uploaded maps of the distributions of Chinese and of German ancestral groups for various regions of the US. It gives a more detailed picture. The site provides maps for all the census 2000 categories.
 

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